National Football League Thread

[Conker]

Well a sloppy game from Pittsburgh and Browns get a win they neededd but will be overshadowed but Myles Garrett and what he did,YOU DON'T FUCKING ATTACK A PLAYER WITH A HELMET ,absolutely uncalled for, hope he is suspended long or rest of season. Kitchens control the Fucking team

Edited November 15, 2019 by Conker

[Avatar_Of_Battle]

Just now, grimydawg said:

@Avatar_Of_Battle Mason LITERALLY tried to rip his helmet off while they were on the ground.  Dude got salty and could have gotten seriously hurt because of it.  Quit defending the "victim" here.  Garrett went overboard, but Mason isn't innocent either.  Unfortunately, the fight is going to be the story of the game.  Otherwise, great win.

*sigh* not getting out of window notifications all the time. Maybe because it wasn't quoted. I'll have to look in the settings to see.

 

Not saying he's completely innocent (good fucking god I sound like the school system), buuuuuut Mason didn't start the fight. He wasn't the aggressor. I could easily tell you to quit defending the "criminal" here, but that doesn't accomplish anything. That fight started when Garrett put him on the ground, for no reason actually, and didn't get up. Also, I've seen way too many of your posts here for you to act dense especially when a discussion isn't built around leaderboard shenanigans. I provided you with another reason just to show that your thinking is no different, or correct, than mine except you're defending a ridiculous amount of violence for no reason based on what? He tried taking my helmet so I gotta take his off and bambam his face in? Other people are saying the two are not even in the same dimension of actions. Fact of the matter is Mason did something non-violent. Garrett did something incredibly violent with no real provocation. There's no justifying it. Your reasoning seems like "I pushed him, he pushed me, so I just shot him. He didn't die but I mean...he pushed me back when he should've just let me get away with the first push." lol. Also, riddle me this. Why didn't Garrett put the helmet down after he removed it? What did he need it for once his hand wasn't dealing with helmet protection and he could just deck Mason? That's right. He wanted what you're basically saying, between the lines, about Mason. Reality > what anyone thinks. <- this bold section is the entire thing that will be looked at ladies and gents.

 

I get it. You've seen shit, but you aren't the only one. Your own words work against you. You can't defend overwhelming violence when there wasn't a real reason and then lament that people are soft. Especially when those violent people aren't dealt with accordingly. (which hey actually gets settled one way or another as I'm sure you're aware of when the actual justice system fails...a lot.) Would Mason be considered "hard" by you if he rode up on Garrett and put holes in him for what he did? Because I promise you there are people out there saying Mason is soft for not trying to murder Garrett on the field for what he did or that he's a bitch for not going after him and looking for a flag. There are quite a few athletes saying Garrett was completely in the wrong and some, or just one maybe, actually commenting on the jail time he'd be getting. Don't think I've seen anyone, except you, outside of a certain type defending Garrett. (in case that word wasn't clear enough. I said TYPE. I don't want to hear shit about what someone thinks that meant because it doesn't.)

 

If you are getting annoyed because the Browns are your team let me know. I won't debate with fans after dealing with them in other communities. If that's not a driving factor then I don't mind continuing it after this. (although I can't help but type long posts) It was a great win and from what I saw Cleveland outclassed them everywhere, I don't care about winning or losing though. As I've stated in this thread probably dozens of times I only care if the refs don't screw up and people do their jobs well.

[grimydawg___]

@Avatar_Of_Battle What are you talking about?  Garrett is a defensive lineman.  His specialty is to go after the QB.  That means putting him on the ground...  Mason did try to come after him which is why he got hit.

Edited November 15, 2019 by grimydawg

[majob]

22 minutes ago, grimydawg said:

@Avatar_Of_Battle What are you talking about?  Garrett is a defensive lineman.  His specialty is to go after the QB.  That means putting him on the ground...

Garrett made a late hit and stayed on top of Rudolph. I don't really have a dog in this fight but from where I was sitting, Garrett did more than he had to, especially so late in the game.

[Avatar_Of_Battle]

1 minute ago, grimydawg said:

@Avatar_Of_Battle What are you talking about?  Garrett is a defensive lineman.  His specialty is to go after the QB.  That means putting him on the ground...

Must be the mention not triggering notifications.

 

I'm aware. I even agreed silently with the people here on how ridiculous the full weight tackle rule is regarding people in his position. However, it is not his job to remain on top of him almost like he's grinding his body into his. The 2 Steelers nearby reacted the way they did for a reason if you didn't notice. There have been far less "rough" tackles that were called. This dude bear hug slammed him into the ground after the ball was thrown. Not his job, and more than a few people have pointed that out.

 

And to go one step further. Even if the tackle was good. No reason to flip on top of him like that. It'll cause a problem every single time. He was trying to start shit, he got shit, and now he'll get punished for it and it'll probably be a soft punishment unless he's like Suh and Burfict and this is a thing for him. (I don't know him so I honestly don't know if this is his first big time offense in the league.) He'll likely be gone by morning just like Whitehead. (who merely threatened someone's life not actually attempted to take it.)

 

It's not part of the comment I quoted, but I do see the edit.

Which part are you referring to? When they were on the ground? Or when Garrett swung the helmet? Either way Garrett is in the wrong 100%. HE HAD NO REASON TO SWING THE HELMET. None. Zero. No single solitary reason to hold that helmet let alone swing it. If there ever comes a time someone tackles you and starts mushing you into the ground I want you to remember Mason Rudolph as you swing at them. And pray that if you grab their shirt, they don't think it's free game to rip your shirt off and strangle you with it because that's the exact same mentality your slinging here.

 

I get it. Football is an emotional and aggressive sport. Accidents do happen. (especially without proper pads ) This wasn't an accident. The video proves it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

[acasser]

8 hours ago, MidnightDragon said:

Not much appealing it when he did it on national TV and millions of people saw it.

 

People appeal dumber things all the time.  Myles Garrett is going to appeal whatever suspension gets thrown at him, the NFLPA will have his back, and we'll probably hear from all sorts of people about how Garrett was provoked and his response was somewhat justifiable.

 

7 hours ago, grimydawg said:

Mason started it.  Don't cash a check you can't cash.

 

Sorry, but no.  What Myles Garrett did there could be classified as aggravated assault -- or worse -- by a prosecutor under the criminal code.

 

And what are we, three years old?  "He started it!" doesn't work very well in nursery school, let alone with (alleged) adults who (should) know better.

 

....

 

Myles Garrett should be done for the season and probably longer than that.  It's not the lengthy rap sheet that Vontaze Burfict sports, but it's a singular incident of such severity that it warrants a punishment of similar magnitude.  And maybe some investigation from the Cleveland P.D.

[starcrunch061]

This line of posts cannot possibly be about when that dude tried to bludgeon the Steelers' QB with his own helmet. I'm actually with @acasser on this: what Myles Garrett did could absolutely be classified as aggravated assault. I certainly think he will appeal, and odious though it may be, it is the job of the NFLPA to defend its players. I have no problem with that. But in no world of rational minds can we say that Garrett's response was justified, or justifiable, and the NFL should bring down the hammer on him.

 

I know longtime Browns fans might remember a similar incident when Orlando Brown assaulted an official after having his eye put out, but this feels much, much different to me. Mason may have started this fight, but that's like saying that I'm justified for drawing my gun and shooting a dude in the parking lot simply because he verbally attacks me, and that would never be allowed in the US of A.

 

 

Edited November 15, 2019 by starcrunch061

[grimydawg___]

I'm sorry.  You folks are too sensitive.  Don't start a fight and you probably won't get clubbed with a helmet.

[MidnightDragon]

2 hours ago, grimydawg said:

I'm sorry.  You folks are too sensitive.  Don't start a fight and you probably won't get clubbed with a helmet.

Still no excuse for that and, despite what you said, you clearly think Mason deserved it and Garrett did absolutely nothing wrong. I feel sorry for you and I’m done arguing with you.

 

3 hours ago, acasser said:

 

People appeal dumber things all the time.  Myles Garrett is going to appeal whatever suspension gets thrown at him, the NFLPA will have his back, and we'll probably hear from all sorts of people about how Garrett was provoked and his response was somewhat justifiable.

Fair enough. Just saying whoever hears it clearly should let it stand.

Edited November 15, 2019 by MidnightDragon

[PerryToxteth]

2 hours ago, starcrunch061 said:

Mason may have started this fight, but that's like saying that I'm justified for drawing my gun and shooting a dude in the parking lot simply because he verbally attacks me, and that would never be allowed in the US of A.

 

 

 

Well, except Texas where there is the Castle Defense. A guy was found innocent for shooting two robbers who were robbing his neighbors house! 

 

As for Myles Garrett, welcome to the Dale Hunter Club. You can have a seat alongside Ron Artest.  Whatever you do for the rest of your career, this will be what you are known and remembered for. This has transcended the sports scene and is now national news. Today's headlines: CA School shooting, Impeachment, Myles Garrett. The NFL will be forced into dealing with this quickly and severely bc this is a national story; much like the Malice at the Palace. 

  Hockey has had criminal-like offenses like this in the past, but I can't recall something this heinous in the NFL. Maybe the body slam of Jim McMahon by the GB defensive lineman? That guy got black balled by the league, and he didn't even use a weapon (which that helmet was last night). And as despicable as it was, all parties involved are actually pretty lucky. An inch or two in a different direction and we could have had a unconscious guy with his head splayed open on the field.  

[starcrunch061]

5 minutes ago, PerryToxteth said:

Hockey has had criminal-like offenses like this in the past, but I can't recall something this heinous in the NFL. Maybe the body slam of Jim McMahon by the GB defensive lineman? That guy got black balled by the league, and he didn't even use a weapon (which that helmet was last night). And as despicable as it was, all parties involved are actually pretty lucky. An inch or two in a different direction and we could have had a unconscious guy with his head splayed open on the field.  

 

Todd Bertuzzi of course is the Hitler of these types of offenses, and it got me thinking: what if that helmet had connected? the Browns and possibly the NFL could have been sued for a boatload (respondeat superior and all that). I don't know that the terms of Steve Moore's settlement were ever made known, but they were certainly substantial.

 

5 minutes ago, PerryToxteth said:

Well, except Texas where there is the Castle Defense. A guy was found innocent for shooting two robbers who were robbing his neighbors house! 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2019 by starcrunch061

[grimydawg___]

@MidnightDragon you and others are sensitive, and that's fine.  In no way did I condone what Garrett did.  He's suspended for the rest of the year and that's expected, but don't act like Mason is innocent in the situation either.  Folks are lucky there's not a serious injury.  The game was already over and it could have been stopped if Mason wasn't salty first.

Edited November 15, 2019 by grimydawg

[djb5f]

11 hours ago, grimydawg said:

Mason started it.  Don't cash a check you can't cash.

Started it by getting slammed to the ground 2 seconds after the pass and bear hugged on the ground?

 

 

Edited November 15, 2019 by djb5f

[pinkrobot_pb]

A helmet like that weighs the best part of nothing at all. You're basically swinging a cotton ball around.

[MidnightDragon]

Garrett got suspended indefinitely. He should!

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001076995/article/browns-de-myles-garrett-suspended-indefinitely

 

Pouncey got suspended three games and Ogunjobi one.

[djb5f]

3 minutes ago, pinkrobot_pb said:

A helmet like that weighs the best part of nothing at all. You're basically swinging a cotton ball around.

is this a joke?  Helmets are heavy bruh.  Very lucky he hit him with the cushioned part.

[Yuna4353]

1 minute ago, MidnightDragon said:

Garrett got suspended indefinitely. He should!

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001076995/article/browns-de-myles-garrett-suspended-indefinitely

 

Pouncey got suspended three games and Ogunjobi one.

And Rudolph may get fined but they are still figuring that out 

[djb5f]

Cleveland trying to be the new Cincinnati in the Bengals/Steelers rivalry.

 

If that was going to happen to a QB last night, I could better understand it happening to Baker Mayfield given his brashness and cockiness.  But to Mason Rudolph.  Would have not predicted that.

 

in the post-game interview you could tell Baker was like oh shit, we have to play these guys in 2 weeks again and there will be repercussions.  Good luck...

[PerryToxteth]

14 minutes ago, pinkrobot_pb said:

A helmet like that weighs the best part of nothing at all. You're basically swinging a cotton ball around.

 

Quite obvious you've never picked up a football helmet. Or had one on. 

[pinkrobot_pb]

15 minutes ago, djb5f said:

is this a joke?  Helmets are heavy bruh.  Very lucky he hit him with the cushioned part.

 

Just hopping on the downplaying bandwagon. I had not even watched a clip. I have now, looks like a pretty delibrate action to first take off the guy's helmet and then try to bang him over the head with it.

 

Anyway, the only thing I know about American Football is the little bit of NFL 11 I played on PS3. It was broadcasted over here for a while some years ago and I tried to get into it, but could not really make it work. But I know a fair fight when I see one and this wasn't one.

Edited November 15, 2019 by pinkrobot_pb

[acasser]

1 hour ago, djb5f said:

Cleveland trying to be the new Cincinnati in the Bengals/Steelers rivalry.

 

 

For a team that has stunk for the greater part of the past several years, the Cleveland Browns are incredibly unlikable.  They weren't doing well in that area before last night, because guys like Baker Mayfield and Odell Beckham rub tons of people the wrong way, but Myles Garrett took it to a whole different level.

 

It seems to me that if you are a sports franchise and you want to make America hate you, you ought to give them on-the-field reasons.  The best "heels" are the guys you despise but have to begrudingly respect for their prowess, such as the New England Patriots.

 

Not so much these guys.

 

1 hour ago, starcrunch061 said:

 

Todd Bertuzzi of course is the Hitler of these types of offenses, and it got me thinking: what if that helmet had connected? the Browns and possibly the NFL could have been sued for a boatload (respondeat superior and all that). I don't know that the terms of Steve Moore's settlement were ever made known, but they were certainly substantial.

 

 

Thank you for pulling the appropriate NHL reference -- I hadn't gotten that far in my wool-gathering just yet.  (But no thank you for the Godwin's Law violation.)

 

I also wonder this:  Had last night's game been in Pittsburgh and not Cleveland, might Myles Garrett have spent the night in jail?  With an enterprising District Attorney (or assistant DA) in cahoots with a local judge turning the legal gearwork to make it happen?

[MidnightDragon]

Everyone who got punished is appealing. Not shocked, but hopefully Garrett’s in particular gets denied.

[Matto_lsi]

First and foremost, what Myles Garrett did is assault in my book, well outside the bounds of the game, and completely inexcusable.  If he had ripped the helmet off, dropped it on the ground and walked away, I could defend his action, but what he did with that helmet is so uncalled for he should be banned from the league forever.

 

Now, the matter of what happened is completely different.  I'm not sure which game everyone else was watching, but Mason flicked the ball out at the last second, not even sure Garrett would have noticed.  He took him to the ground probably thinking he had a sack.  He also did not slam him, no such thing, he bear-hugged him and was trying to waste time to end the game.  With 8 seconds left, had he hugged him long enough, Steelers couldn't run another play, game over.  Even trying at that point was pointless, but they were, and I'm sure the Browns just wanted to bask in their glory.  I saw nothing wrong with the tackle, and it certainly was not flagged on the field.  What I saw when they were on the ground was Mason, who obviously wasn't done with a lost cause of a game, rabidly tearing at Garrett's helmet trying to rip it off.  That was a complete BS act, and IS what started the ensuing fight.  Mason did start it.  It he hadn't ripped at Garrett's helmet, the whole situation never would have happened.  Mason was the instigator.  So, at that point, Garrett ripping his helmet off was not something unexpected, after I saw what Mason was doing.  And honestly, it probably would have ended there, but then Mason charged at Garrett to yell and/or continue the scuffle, which only fanned the growing fire.  A pretty dumb move, considering he was helmetless at that point.  But, what happened next was certainly criminal, and as I said above, an inexcusable action that should get Garrett booted from the league.

 

Just cause Mason is a QB and was on the end of the helmet hit, doesn't mean he's innocent in this.  He should be fined and suspended one game for the fact that without his overreaction to a nothing play, this whole thing never would have happened.

 

But yes, I in no way condone what Garrett did, boot him, hell, bring him up on criminal charges even.  I support that!  And I know Pouncey was mad, but he deserves more than 3 games too, he was throwing punches and kicks to the head of a player who was down on the ground being restrained by one of his teammates.  That too is assault, in my opinion.  Not quite as bad, as Garrett still had his helmet on (despite Mason's best efforts), but it too was very over the top.  There were a lot of ridiculously bad decisions in those 10-15 seconds of post-play action, some worse than others, but looking at each person's actions independently, there were no innocent victims here.

Edited November 16, 2019 by Matto_lsi

[skidmarkgn]

After seeing the 49ers injury report I'm actually wondering if the Cardinals might pull off the miracle on Sunday.  There's a heaping-helping of wishful thinking there because an Arizona win puts Seattle on top of the division but still... that's a lot of key players who might not be on the field for San Fran.

[Matto_lsi]

13 minutes ago, skidmarkgn said:

After seeing the 49ers injury report I'm actually wondering if the Cardinals might pull off the miracle on Sunday.  There's a heaping-helping of wishful thinking there because an Arizona win puts Seattle on top of the division but still... that's a lot of key players who might not be on the field for San Fran.

 

?