cmgravekeeper

National Football League Thread

5,274 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, Matto_lsi said:

First and foremost, what Myles Garrett did is assault in my book, well outside the bounds of the game, and completely inexcusable.  If he had ripped the helmet off, dropped it on the ground and walked away, I could defend his action, but what he did with that helmet is so uncalled for he should be banned from the league forever.

 

Now, the matter of what happened is completely different.  I'm not sure which game everyone else was watching, but Mason flicked the ball out at the last second, not even sure Garrett would have noticed.  He took him to the ground probably thinking he had a sack.  He also did not slam him, no such thing, he bear-hugged him and was trying to waste time to end the game.  With 8 seconds left, had he hugged him long enough, Steelers couldn't run another play, game over.  Even trying at that point was pointless, but they were, and I'm sure the Browns just wanted to bask in their glory.  I saw nothing wrong with the tackle, and it certainly was not flagged on the field.  What I saw when they were on the ground was Mason, who obviously wasn't done with a lost cause of a game, rabidly tearing at Garrett's helmet trying to rip it off.  That was a complete BS act, and IS what started the ensuing fight.  Mason did start it.  It he hadn't ripped at Garrett's helmet, the whole situation never would have happened.  Mason was the instigator.  So, at that point, Garrett ripping his helmet off was not something unexpected, after I saw what Mason was doing.  And honestly, it probably would have ended there, but then Mason charged at Garrett to yell and/or continue the scuffle, which only fanned the growing fire.  A pretty dumb move, considering he was helmetless at that point.  But, what happened next was certainly criminal, and as I said above, an inexcusable action that should get Garrett booted from the league.

 

Just cause Mason is a QB and was on the end of the helmet hit, doesn't mean he's innocent in this.  He should be fined and suspended one game for the fact that without his overreaction to a nothing play, this whole thing never would have happened.

 

But yes, I in no way condone what Garrett did, boot him, hell, bring him up on criminal charges even.  I support that!  And I know Pouncey was mad, but he deserves more than 3 games too, he was throwing punches and kicks to the head of a player who was down on the ground being restrained by one of his teammates.  That too is assault, in my opinion.  Not quite as bad, as Garrett still had his helmet on (despite Mason's best efforts), but it too was very over the top.  There were a lot of ridiculously bad decisions in those 10-15 seconds of post-play action, some worse than others, but looking at each person's actions independently, there were no innocent victims here.


 

I hope you don’t believe what you wrote.  Garrett knew Rudolph did not have the ball.  But 2 seconds after the throw for whatever reason, he threw him to the turf and bear hugged him so yeah, Rudolph reacted.  This got a bigger reaction from Garrett lifting Rudolph from the ground by his face-mask and ripping it off his head.

 

Rudolph clearly reaches low and to the side trying to get his helmet (his property) back and that is when he was Garrett winds up and bashes him with it.  You could say Rudolph should not have gone back after his helmet but until it happened, no one would have ever expected Garrett to use it as a weapon.

 

 

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8 hours ago, MidnightDragon said:

Everyone who got punished is appealing. Not shocked, but hopefully Garrett’s in particular gets denied.

No way the NFLPA lets Garrett take an indefinite suspension, rest of the season might happen but I wouldn't hold my breath on it being indefinite.

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10 hours ago, Matto_lsi said:

Just cause Mason is a QB and was on the end of the helmet hit, doesn't mean he's innocent in this.  He should be fined and suspended one game for the fact that without his overreaction to a nothing play, this whole thing never would have happened.

 

But yes, I in no way condone what Garrett did, boot him, hell, bring him up on criminal charges even.  I support that!  And I know Pouncey was mad, but he deserves more than 3 games too, he was throwing punches and kicks to the head of a player who was down on the ground being restrained by one of his teammates.  That too is assault, in my opinion.  Not quite as bad, as Garrett still had his helmet on (despite Mason's best efforts), but it too was very over the top.  There were a lot of ridiculously bad decisions in those 10-15 seconds of post-play action, some worse than others, but looking at each person's actions independently, there were no innocent victims here.

 

1. I heard somewhere that Mason wasn't suspended bc on the ground, his hand was stuck in Garrett's facemask. If you watch the video again, his right hand doesn't move. His left hand is grabbing the helmet bc he is trying to gain some leverage to free his other hand.

 

2. You just victim blamed. It's Mason's fault for trying to retrieve his helmet?? As if, Mason should have anticipated that his helmet would be used as a weapon against him??? 

 

3. Pouncey is throwing punches at a helmeted player. His actions were to defend a player who just got assaulted.  But think about it, what's going to get hurt more - Garrett's helmet, or Pouncey's hand? 

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2 hours ago, PerryToxteth said:

 

1. I heard somewhere that Mason wasn't suspended bc on the ground, his hand was stuck in Garrett's facemask. If you watch the video again, his right hand doesn't move. His left hand is grabbing the helmet bc he is trying to gain some leverage to free his other hand.

 

2. You just victim blamed. It's Mason's fault for trying to retrieve his helmet?? As if, Mason should have anticipated that his helmet would be used as a weapon against him??? 

 

3. Pouncey is throwing punches at a helmeted player. His actions were to defend a player who just got assaulted.  But think about it, what's going to get hurt more - Garrett's helmet, or Pouncey's hand? 

 

#2 isn't a thing and never has been.  That's a millennial term for not taking responsibility for your actions.  Mason started this, that's why the NFL is going to fine him and every single analyst in football is agreeing that he started it.  As I said, no excuse for what Garrett did, but at least the grown-ups have agreed Mason is just as much to blame for it all as everyone else involved.

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11 hours ago, djb5f said:

I hope you don’t believe what you wrote.  Garrett knew Rudolph did not have the ball.  But 2 seconds after the throw for whatever reason, he threw him to the turf and bear hugged him so yeah, Rudolph reacted.  This got a bigger reaction from Garrett lifting Rudolph from the ground by his face-mask and ripping it off his head.

 

Rudolph clearly reaches low and to the side trying to get his helmet (his property) back and that is when he was Garrett winds up and bashes him with it.  You could say Rudolph should not have gone back after his helmet but until it happened, no one would have ever expected Garrett to use it as a weapon.

 

 

 

No, I do, I believe every single word, and so does the NFL as they have announced Mason is responsible too and will be fined.  And 2 seconds?  Are you kidding?  We can all watch the replay videos, Mason threw the ball as Garrett was wrapping him up.  Every analyst in football agrees he had no idea the ball was gone and was going for the sack.  Also, how exactly does someone throw another person to the turf when that person lands on top of you?  Go watch the clip again, Mason falls on top of Garrett, not the other way around.  You must be a Steelers fan.

 

And the only thing clear is that Mason aggressively tries to rip off Garrett's helmet when they land on the ground.

 

It's hilarious that just cause he got bopped on the head he's suddenly a 'victim'.  He started a fight, the fight didn't go his way.  The fight got out of control.  Some people did way worse things than others.  But at the end of the day, the final actions of the fight don't erase how it started.

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1 hour ago, Matto_lsi said:

You must be a Steelers fan.


no, quite the opposite.  I loathe the Steelers.  I was pulling for the Browns.  I think Mike Tomlin has done a good job this year getting the Steelers in the playoff hunt with no Bell, Brown, or Big Ben.  I thought it would be a lost season.

 

I can say with 99% certainty that Garrett knew the ball was out.  It was thrown long before the late hit.  Defenders are aware and it was not remotely close.  The piling on bear hug was simply an act of machismo.  The Steelers linemen nearby threw up their arms like what the hell is Garrett doing?  
 

Rudolph’s only choice was to accept being Garrett’s little bitch (the safer move) or responding which he did.  Being fined is right for Rudolph for tugging at his helmet but notice he was not suspended.

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2 hours ago, Matto_lsi said:

 

No, I do, I believe every single word, and so does the NFL as they have announced Mason is responsible too and will be fined.  And 2 seconds?  Are you kidding?  We can all watch the replay videos, Mason threw the ball as Garrett was wrapping him up.  Every analyst in football agrees he had no idea the ball was gone and was going for the sack.  Also, how exactly does someone throw another person to the turf when that person lands on top of you?  Go watch the clip again, Mason falls on top of Garrett, not the other way around.  You must be a Steelers fan.

 

And the only thing clear is that Mason aggressively tries to rip off Garrett's helmet when they land on the ground.

 

It's hilarious that just cause he got bopped on the head he's suddenly a 'victim'.  He started a fight, the fight didn't go his way.  The fight got out of control.  Some people did way worse things than others.  But at the end of the day, the final actions of the fight don't erase how it started.

You must think Rudolph got deserved to get clubbed with a helmet because he started the fight :rolleyes: 

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1 hour ago, grimydawg said:

You must think Rudolph got deserved to get clubbed with a helmet because he started the fight :rolleyes: 

 

I actually said the exact opposite in my initial post.  I know, reading is hard.

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1 hour ago, djb5f said:


no, quite the opposite.  I loathe the Steelers.  I was pulling for the Browns.  I think Mike Tomlin has done a good job this year getting the Steelers in the playoff hunt with no Bell, Brown, or Big Ben.  I thought it would be a lost season.

 

I can say with 99% certainty that Garrett knew the ball was out.  It was thrown long before the late hit.  Defenders are aware and it was not remotely close.  The piling on bear hug was simply an act of machismo.  The Steelers linemen nearby threw up their arms like what the hell is Garrett doing?  
 

Rudolph’s only choice was to accept being Garrett’s little bitch (the safer move) or responding which he did.  Being fined is right for Rudolph for tugging at his helmet but notice he was not suspended.

 

Not even close, I have watched the replay numerous times, I just watched it again to be sure, the ball was thrown less than a 1/10th of a second before Garrett wraps him up.  His head is positioned on the opposite side of Mason's body from where the ball came out.  Again, experts agree he had no clue the ball was gone.  Even if he didn't, he did not slam him, Mason fell on top of him then rolled over, and there was nothing there that hasn't happened a million times.  Mason was just mad he was getting bear-hugged, which I've seen countless times in 30 years of watching football.  It always happens at the end of the game when players are trying to run out the clock.

 

I can find an endless supply of these articles online:

https://sports.yahoo.com/prosecuting-garrett-is-overkill-rudolph-got-off-light-pouncey-is-a-folk-hero-but-he-deserved-3-games-003456872.html?.tsrc=bell-brknews

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/mason-rudolph-suspension-myles-garrett/1e9p6e3p28vd31bqe2bgpmst3y

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/columnist/bell/2019/11/15/myles-garrett-deserved-suspension-nfl-should-also-discipline-mason-rudolph/4205825002/

 

Everyone agrees that Mason started it - he initiated it, he escalated it, and he prolonged it.  Everyone, including myself, also believes that what Garrett did in the end was unacceptable and inexcusable.  Stop trying to act like cause I said Mason did something wrong I'm somehow absolving Garrett of his sins.  I agree Garrett was in the wrong, but again, that doesn't let the person who started it, escalated it, and prolonged it off the hook.  Notice how everyone agrees Mason should be fined and most agree he got off light since he wasn't suspended?  Also, I didn't notice Mason's kick to Garrett's balls the first time I watched it.  That's bound to make a man mad, dontcha think?

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@Matto_lsi,  I don’t think you understand what “everyone” means.  I heard Max Kellerman have your take but few others.  Majority (Including most former players) think he was looking for extra curricular at the end of the game and it hasn’t been the first time.  

 

The hit and bear hug to the ground after the pass was nearly 2 seconds late (ball was 15-20 yards upfield), which is very unusual.  Even after on the ground, he laid on top of him as a show of control.  Bush league move.

 

Garrett does have a history.  From punching Delanie Walker earlier in the season to the multiple very late hits and knocking Trevor Siemien out of the game due to injury on one of those late hits.  He was fined for both.  

 

 

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50 minutes ago, Matto_lsi said:

 

I actually said the exact opposite in my initial post.  I know, reading is hard.

I know.  I said the same thing, and folks said I thought he deserved to get clubbed LOL

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17 minutes ago, djb5f said:

@Matto_lsi,  I don’t think you understand what “everyone” means.  I heard Max Kellerman have your take but few others.  Majority (Including most former players) think he was looking for extra curricular at the end of the game and it hasn’t been the first time.  

 

The hit and bear hug to the ground after the pass was nearly 2 seconds late (ball was 15-20 yards upfield), which is very unusual.  Even after on the ground, he laid on top of him as a show of control.  Bush league move.

 

Garrett does have a history.  From punching Delanie Walker earlier in the season to the multiple very late hits and knocking Trevor Siemien out of the game due to injury on one of those late hits.  He was fined for both.  

 

 

 

Not disputing Garrett's reputation, I gave my opinion on the bear hug, which again I've seen more times than I can count.  In regards to this particular play, it wasn't a hit, he wrapped him up and they fell to the ground.  If it had been a hit, Mason would not have landed on top of him.  Yeah, the bear hug is unnecessary, but it's hardly a penalty.  And I haven't seen a penalty for his tackle mentioned anywhere.  The punishment from the league didn't include any mention of it and it wasn't flagged on the field, so I guess the refs didn't think it was a penalty either.  Again, that 2 seconds.  Are you talking about from the time he first made contact to the time he rolled over on the ground?  Cause that has nothing to do with a 'late hit' in this league.  His timing of the tackle was completely within the rules, and I'd argue that the fact it took him 2 seconds to get him onto the ground was because he didn't rough him up at all.  A hard hit usually means you're on the ground instantly, so this is just more proof this wasn't a roughing penalty.  It was weird, and you can call it bush league or lame all you like, that's fine, but not a penalty.  And even if it was, that means it's ok for Mason to kick him in the balls and try to rip his helmet off?  Cause I don't.

 

5 minutes ago, grimydawg said:

I know.  I said the same thing, and folks said I thought he deserved to get clubbed LOL

 

Ok, I'm confused, I thought you were calling me out or something.  Just to be clear, there is no situation, imo, where any player deserves to be clubbed with a helmet.  There is also no situation where I would actually condone it.  I can't say I'm tremendously surprised it happened, it must have happened before because it's actually in the rulebook, but no, it's not ok in any way to do it.  I'm trying to make sure I'm clear about this cause people have been overreacting simply cause I pointed out that Mason did something wrong also.

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@Matto_lsi
 

If you talked to Garrett off the record, he would tell you he knew that Rudolph did not have the ball (in fact he has never claimed otherwise).  The tackle to the ground and bear hug was just to impose his will, nothing more.  Alpha dominance.  
 

It had nothing to do with the clock.  He knew there was no ball in his hands on the ground - and knew before he brought him to the ground.
 

At some point, you are just trying to get the dude off of you.  Safer option would have been to let him continue to dry hump you on the field but Garrett was looking for an altercation and found one.

 

Rudolph went after his helmet (his property), but never in his wildest dreams could he have believed as he was grabbing for it, that Garrett would wind up, swing, and crack him on top of the skull.

 

Any time you have an event like this it is not 100/0 as far as parties, but this was 90/10 and started by Garrett looking for trouble with the late hit and excessive bear hug.

 

Anyway, I am done with this topic.  You are either trolling at this point or believe what you want to and are prone to conspiracy theories.  Happy trails....

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2 hours ago, MidnightDragon said:

 

I'm not surprised, but I don't get the point from the NFL's perspective.  Unless this is part of the settlement agreement to Kaepernick's grievance, why even go here?  Why stage a workout and publicize it like that when it's unlikely Kaep gets signed?  The guy has been out of the sport for three years, he's probably poison in a number of NFL markets, and he wasn't really all that amazing near the tail end of his actual playing time.

 

I just don't see how this ends well for the National Football League.  Then again, they've done plenty of other things recently that fall under the same umbrella.

 

2 hours ago, MidnightDragon said:

 

And this is why you don't sacrifice seasons hoping for that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.  Sometimes, the pot of gold gets taken away before you even reach the end of the rainbow.  And sometimes, you get an over-hyped, mediocre quarterback out of the bargain.

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Ravens/Texans game forgot that it was supposed to be entertaining and competitive, and it's the only game on TV here.

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15 minutes ago, skidmarkgn said:

Ravens/Texans game forgot that it was supposed to be entertaining and competitive, and it's the only game on TV here.


it could be worse.  I am stuck with that game and Jets/Skins so only one late afternoon game.

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Well Ravens destroyed Texans 41-7, continuing to show that they might be a legit contender to win it all this season

 

Falcons get 3rd win with a dominating win over the Carolina Panthers

Edited by Conker
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I got to be an eyewitness to the Vikings 4th largest comeback in franchise history (20 points). Unfortunately, it should have never got to that point. The secondary continues to be a sieve. The Vikings most exciting off-season move will be cutting Xavier Rhodes' ass and getting more cap space. I can't recall a player regressing so quickly in a career. 

Comeback was also helped with a Noon start, so we got another Good Kirk game! 29/35, 319 yards and 3 TD's. 

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Anybody see those Tampa uniforms today?  I only had to watch them when Fox cut to them for "game breaks", but ye gods.... my eyes are STILL burning from those things.

 

As for Jets/Skins?  Heavens to Betsy but the Redskins are terrible.  Good for the Jets that they beat the living daylights out of a bad team, because that's what you're supposed to do, but I feel sorry for Washington.

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Denver chokes hard, Arizona chokes hard, and the Bears' offense really is that bad.  Bummer bye week for Seattle.

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Well Rams get it done in a scrappy game, but the big story is the bears and why Trubisky was on the sideline to end the game.

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12 hours ago, Conker said:

Well Rams get it done in a scrappy game, but the big story is the bears and why Trubisky was on the sideline to end the game.

Injured again, apparently. Not that he's doing great things when he isn't.. Starting to look like what has been the Bears' problem for years. Amazing defense, but an offense that can't do anything.

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With all the injuries we have, I'm glad we managed to win going 9-1. Watching the game it's clear that you can't man coverage against Shanahan, he's too good as playcaller!!

Now we have one of the tougher remaining schedule, I will be extremely happy if we manage a .500 ending the season at 12-4

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17 minutes ago, Zio_Sam87 said:

With all the injuries we have, I'm glad we managed to win going 9-1. Watching the game it's clear that you can't man coverage against Shanahan, he's too good as playcaller!!

Now we have one of the tougher remaining schedule, I will be extremely happy if we manage a .500 ending the season at 12-4

 

As a fellow Niner fan, I agree.  Even if everyone comes back full strength (which we know some can't, like Kwon, he's out for the season), it's still the toughest 3 game stretch of any team this year.  All 3 are 8-2, and 2 of the 3 games are on the road.  Ugh!  If that wasn't enough, Rams and especially Falcons are starting to play well the last few weeks.  And then Seattle on the road in late December?  Do I even dare watch that one? lol  Do they have the talent to sweep and finish 15-1?  Sure.  Is it possible they lose every remaining game?  Sure.  Will they fall somewhere in between? Sure. The biggest factor, I think, in how many Wins they get from here on out will be if Jimmy G can keep the damn ball in his hands.  Yeah, he's had some bad throws, but for the most part he's been accurate.  His 2nd pick yesterday was off his receivers fingers.  But the fumbles... especially inside his own 20!  That's what killed them against Seattle.  Pack, Ravens, and Saints are too strong to squander those opportunities, if they get them.  Next 3 will be tough either way, but turnovers will be the deciding factor.

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