National Football League Thread

[PerryToxteth]

  So I just read that Mike Zimmer is 1-5 when he takes the Vikings to the West Coast. And we all assume Kirk turns into a vampire when the sun rolls down, so things don't look promising tonight. Thank God the Chargers game in a few weeks got flexed to an afternoon tilt.

  But as much as we hear about the early morning games for the West Coast squads when they go back East, there's a late night funk for Eastern and Central Time teams too. In the last 15 years, Eastern and Central time zone teams are 18-38 when playing a night game on the Pacific. 

  I just hope the Vikings show up and compete tonight. Our offense still won't be at full stride with Thielen still out, but we can't possibly play worse than we did in last year's Seattle game. The offense was so putrid in that contest that it got the OC fired (John DeFilipo, who is looking at a second straight season of getting axed. This time in JAX).

  If we have any hope, our secondary will have to play better, and the front four will need to get pressure without blitzing assistance. If we send six and Wilson scrambles out, we're done.

  Any chance of scrambling out of a Wild Card spot will need to begin tonight! Skol!

[PsychicVibe]

3 hours ago, PerryToxteth said:

  So I just read that Mike Zimmer is 1-5 when he takes the Vikings to the West Coast. And we all assume Kirk turns into a vampire when the sun rolls down, so things don't look promising tonight. Thank God the Chargers game in a few weeks got flexed to an afternoon tilt.

  But as much as we hear about the early morning games for the West Coast squads when they go back East, there's a late night funk for Eastern and Central Time teams too. In the last 15 years, Eastern and Central time zone teams are 18-38 when playing a night game on the Pacific. 

  I just hope the Vikings show up and compete tonight. Our offense still won't be at full stride with Thielen still out, but we can't possibly play worse than we did in last year's Seattle game. The offense was so putrid in that contest that it got the OC fired (John DeFilipo, who is looking at a second straight season of getting axed. This time in JAX).

  If we have any hope, our secondary will have to play better, and the front four will need to get pressure without blitzing assistance. If we send six and Wilson scrambles out, we're done.

  Any chance of scrambling out of a Wild Card spot will need to begin tonight! Skol!

 

This 49er fan wishes you all the luck in the world. But my money is on Seattle.

 

Cousins is 0-7 on Monday Night. The Seahawks are 17-2 at home in primetime games since 2010.

 

The Vikings might be the superior team except in two areas: coaching and quarterback play. They have to win this game to stay in the hunt for the division championship; should they lose tonight but still beat Green Bay down the road they likely do not win the division due to tiebreaker (divisional record).

 

(Side note: the Seahawks apparently have the flu bug running through the team).

 

 

[skidmarkgn]

4 hours ago, PerryToxteth said:

  So I just read that Mike Zimmer is 1-5 when he takes the Vikings to the West Coast. And we all assume Kirk turns into a vampire when the sun rolls down, so things don't look promising tonight. Thank God the Chargers game in a few weeks got flexed to an afternoon tilt.

  But as much as we hear about the early morning games for the West Coast squads when they go back East, there's a late night funk for Eastern and Central Time teams too. In the last 15 years, Eastern and Central time zone teams are 18-38 when playing a night game on the Pacific. 

  I just hope the Vikings show up and compete tonight. Our offense still won't be at full stride with Thielen still out, but we can't possibly play worse than we did in last year's Seattle game. The offense was so putrid in that contest that it got the OC fired (John DeFilipo, who is looking at a second straight season of getting axed. This time in JAX).

  If we have any hope, our secondary will have to play better, and the front four will need to get pressure without blitzing assistance. If we send six and Wilson scrambles out, we're done.

  Any chance of scrambling out of a Wild Card spot will need to begin tonight! Skol!

 

Pretty sure Cook and Diggs are going to be the deciding factors for Minnesota.  If Cook can get going (which is a weakness for Seattle) and open up the deep ball to Diggs, Seattle's in trouble.  If Seattle can contain Cook and force Cousins into pressure throws, Minnesota's in trouble.  And honestly, I don't know enough about the Vik's defense to know how things stack up the other way.

[skidmarkgn]

Well, I guess Seattle can look at the opening drive footage and know how to... not tackle.

[Avatar_Of_Battle]

Did...did they really just play a remix of the X-Files theme...

lmfao

[skidmarkgn]

I swear this team is physically incapable of just putting a team away, every damn time they make everyone sweat it out..

Edited December 3, 2019 by skidmarkgn

[PsychicVibe]

7 minutes ago, skidmarkgn said:

I swear this team is physically incapable of just putting a team away, every damn time they make everyone sweat it out..

 

 

That missed extra point looms large. Can Cousins break the mold?

 

[skidmarkgn]

No idea who to pull for in the Saints/9ers game now.  I guess the 9ers is the "right" answer because the Saints winning out means the #1 seed, no questions asked.  If San Fran takes it then (again, assuming both Seattle and San Fran don't take a loss leading up to their game which I'm not at all close to thinking will happen) Seattle can get a shot to "take care of their own dirty work" so to speak.  A NO win though, that either puts Seattle essentially 2 games up in the division, or makes a loss to the Rams not as debilitating.  Tough call.

[Matto_lsi]

30 minutes ago, skidmarkgn said:

No idea who to pull for in the Saints/9ers game now.  I guess the 9ers is the "right" answer because the Saints winning out means the #1 seed, no questions asked.  If San Fran takes it then (again, assuming both Seattle and San Fran don't take a loss leading up to their game which I'm not at all close to thinking will happen) Seattle can get a shot to "take care of their own dirty work" so to speak.  A NO win though, that either puts Seattle essentially 2 games up in the division, or makes a loss to the Rams not as debilitating.  Tough call.

 

I feel like you have to cheer for the Niners to keep losing (and I say that as a Niners fan).  From the Seahawks perspective, they will get #1 or #2 in the conference if they stay ahead of the Niners.  Alternatively, hoping to pass the Saints with a Niners win could backfire and lead the Seahawks back into #5 if the Niners win out.  Finishing #2 still means a bye week and a home game.  The alternative is an extra playoff game on the road.  I'm still hoping the Niners avoid that, but in the end, one of our teams will be playing on the road in January.

[Conker]

Well Seattle get it done to move to 10-2, whilst Cousins is now 0-8 on MNF and still cannot win the big games  

 

Also Wht will the Jags do with Foles after they benched him agai for Minshew

Edited December 3, 2019 by Conker

[PerryToxteth]

5 hours ago, Conker said:

Well Seattle get it done to move to 10-2, whilst Cousins is now 0-8 on MNF and still cannot win the big games  

 

 

  That game is a good example why a QB's win-loss record isn't entirely fair. The loss cannot be dumped in Kirk's lap, when the defense not only bent, but broke time after time. That was by far, the worst rush defense the Vikings have exhibited all season. And at this point, the D might fare better if they just play 10-on-11, rather than putting Xavier Rhodes in. The pass interference, the unnecessary roughness, and then forgetting that as a CB, you actually cover WRs on that TD. 

  Vikes played pretty good for three quarters, but just killed themselves in the 3rd quarter. Dumb penalties, Cook's fumble. We will definitely need Cook for the final stretch, but I wasn't too worried to see him leave the game as Alexander Mattison might be the best rookie RB this season (he won't get the yardage total the OAK RB will get, but his yard per carry will indicate how good he is). 

  And Diggs needs to buy Cousins a car or something, if Cousins has a INT bonus structured into his contract. Kirk has four picks this year and THREE of them were from the ball hitting Diggs in the hands, only for him to drop, bobble, carom the ball to a defender.   

 

Unless GB uncharacteristically drops a few, no need for the Vikings to keep sending me emails about putting down a deposit for a home playoff game.

[acasser]

8 hours ago, skidmarkgn said:

No idea who to pull for in the Saints/9ers game now. 

 

7 hours ago, Matto_lsi said:

 

I feel like you have to cheer for the Niners to keep losing (and I say that as a Niners fan).  From the Seahawks perspective, they will get #1 or #2 in the conference if they stay ahead of the Niners. 

 

Yeah, I think I agree with Matto_Isi here.  The first priority ought to be winning your division and ensuring yourself a home game.  The second priority is to win enough to get a bye and make it easier to advance deeper into the playoffs.  Homefield advantage throughout is nice, especially for a team where homefield means something -- and if you're going to play teams for whom that also applies, such as the Saints -- but better to get the bye and go to New Orleans than to not get the bye at all.

[MidnightDragon]

Rivera's time in Carolina is over. 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001083687/article/carolina-panthers-fire-head-coach-ron-rivera 

[djb5f]

13 hours ago, Matto_lsi said:

 

I feel like you have to cheer for the Niners to keep losing (and I say that as a Niners fan).  From the Seahawks perspective, they will get #1 or #2 in the conference if they stay ahead of the Niners.  Alternatively, hoping to pass the Saints with a Niners win could backfire and lead the Seahawks back into #5 if the Niners win out.  Finishing #2 still means a bye week and a home game.  The alternative is an extra playoff game on the road.  I'm still hoping the Niners avoid that, but in the end, one of our teams will be playing on the road in January.

agree, difference between 1 and 2 not that big,  but I can almost guarantee whoever gets the 5 seed (SF or Seattle) is NOT winning 3 straight road games in the playoffs.

15 minutes ago, MidnightDragon said:

Rivera's time in Carolina is over. 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001083687/article/carolina-panthers-fire-head-coach-ron-rivera 

major rebuild coming.  New coach and QB.  McCaffrey is tearing it up but RBs have short shelf lives (not named Frank Gore)

[PsychicVibe]

2 hours ago, djb5f said:

agree, difference between 1 and 2 not that big,  but I can almost guarantee whoever gets the 5 seed (SF or Seattle) is NOT winning 3 straight road games in the playoffs.

 

Why not? San Francisco has a defense and running game that travels well........and Seattle has a knack for winning close games. The four seed (Philly or Dallas) will be an underdog against either team......and then it shapes up for SF vs. SEA in what is sure to be a close game. Winner of that one might go on the road to NO or GB or even MIN but a win there is not unreasonable.

 

BTW SF is a three point underdog at NO this weekend. The only time SF has struggled is against mobile QBs like Kyler Murray, Russell Wilson and Lamar Jackson. They beat GB in a blowout.....they beat LA Rams in a blowout........and I just don't see NO getting anything done offensively against SF and I'm expecting another blowout.

[Matto_lsi]

45 minutes ago, PsychicVibe said:

 

Why not? San Francisco has a defense and running game that travels well........and Seattle has a knack for winning close games. The four seed (Philly or Dallas) will be an underdog against either team......and then it shapes up for SF vs. SEA in what is sure to be a close game. Winner of that one might go on the road to NO or GB or even MIN but a win there is not unreasonable.

 

BTW SF is a three point underdog at NO this weekend. The only time SF has struggled is against mobile QBs like Kyler Murray, Russell Wilson and Lamar Jackson. They beat GB in a blowout.....they beat LA Rams in a blowout........and I just don't see NO getting anything done offensively against SF and I'm expecting another blowout.

 

I'm really hoping for that!!  I know how some might respond, but honestly the only time the Niners have lost this year is by beating themselves.  Jimmy G had 2 fumbles inside his own 20 against the Seahawks that led to 10 points and the rookie kicker missed the game winner in overtime.  Again Jimmy fumbles deep in his own end against the Ravens leading to a TD for them, and another missed (albeit blocked) field goal.  Of course things happen, it's a game, it's not perfect.  BUT if the Niners don't make any boneheaded mistakes, I can't see any team in the league beating them, regardless of where they play.  However, I totally expect them to make boneheaded mistakes.  They're good, even great, but they are a very young team.  Mistakes will happen, but they will also be the deciding factor on whether or not the Niners can get through the playoffs.

 

And I agree (logic-wise, at least) that whoever is in #5 or #6 isn't winning 3 straight road games.  It's possible, it's happened before, and both the Niners and Seahawks are certainly capable of it.  But, it's very likely that whoever is in that position would play their 2nd playoff game on the road against the other.  I don't like either of their chances in that situation. 

 

I'm very much expecting the #1 seed from the NFC to make the super bowl this year.  At this point there's three prime contenders for that, though if you're right about this weekend, that third team might be a red herring, lol.  But they did beat the Seahawks earlier in the year, so until I see a blowout loss at home, I'm giving the Saints the benefit of the doubt.  Though that would be sweet to watch.  As a fellow Niners fan you must remember all the tough games in the 80s and 90s when they were in the same division, and of course one of the last times we played the Saints.  That BS 'roughing' call on Brees that stole a win from us (as Brooks sack led to a Willis fumble recovery with 3 mins left in the game and the Niners had the lead)?  Yeah...let's take it to the Saints like Whitner did to Thomas.

[skidmarkgn]

Now that Harbaugh's lasted about as long at Michigan as he has anywhere else, I'm hearing he's becoming the most talked about candidate for Carolina.  But honestly, if he comes back to the NFL, it HAS to be at Cleveland right?  

[majob]

1 hour ago, skidmarkgn said:

Now that Harbaugh's lasted about as long at Michigan as he has anywhere else, I'm hearing he's becoming the most talked about candidate for Carolina.  But honestly, if he comes back to the NFL, it HAS to be at Cleveland right?  

Harbough is making more at Michigan than he did as an NFL coach so any team wanting him will have to cough up serious money. And honestly, I don't see him leaving college anytime soon, it's an easier and better paying gig right now and even with our ire over him being unable to beat Ohio, he's still the best coach the school has had in years and we still love the guy

Edited December 4, 2019 by majob

[Matto_lsi]

2 hours ago, majob said:

Harbough is making more at Michigan than he did as an NFL coach so any team wanting him will have to cough up serious money. And honestly, I don't see him leaving college anytime soon, it's an easier and better paying gig right now and even with our ire over him being unable to beat Ohio, he's still the best coach the school has had in years and we still love the guy

 

Insert Seattle instead of Ohio, and this... said every Niners fan ever.  The only person in the Bay Area who wanted him gone was the millennial manchild in charge who knows about as much about football as my wife.  I can't even speak his name, that's how little I respect him.  Man... Harbaugh was great, and it was awesome how mad he made everyone else by just being a good coach!

 

 

Also this, though unrelated - http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001083838/article/giants-likely-to-start-eli-manning-monday-vs-eagles

 

So glad to hear it!  With what we know now, is anyone surprised he lost to the Bills in week 2 and a road game against the division leading, and rival, Cowboys in week 1?  He got the short end of the stick.  I hope he has a good showing against the Eagles so he can go play somewhere else next year.  I mean, c'mon New York Jersey!  The guy gave you 2 super wins against the Pats, and is the only QB in NFL history to beat an undefeated team in the Super Bowl (and probably will always be the only one)!

Edited December 4, 2019 by Matto_lsi

[PsychicVibe]

2 hours ago, Matto_lsi said:

 

Insert Seattle instead of Ohio, and this... said every Niners fan ever.  The only person in the Bay Area who wanted him gone was the millennial manchild in charge who knows about as much about football as my wife.  I can't even speak his name, that's how little I respect him.  Man... Harbaugh was great, and it was awesome how mad he made everyone else by just being a good coach!

 

 

Also this, though unrelated - http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001083838/article/giants-likely-to-start-eli-manning-monday-vs-eagles

 

So glad to hear it!  With what we know now, is anyone surprised he lost to the Bills in week 2 and a road game against the division leading, and rival, Cowboys in week 1?  He got the short end of the stick.  I hope he has a good showing against the Eagles so he can go play somewhere else next year.  I mean, c'mon New York Jersey!  The guy gave you 2 super wins against the Pats, and is the only QB in NFL history to beat an undefeated team in the Super Bowl (and probably will always be the only one)!

 

Harbaugh has turned every program he was associated with (San Diego, Stanford, Niners, and Michigan) and turned an organization with a culture of losing into an instant winner. He is often aggressive and abrasive and demands a lot of the people around him. As I said in a previous post (long ago) he is an ASS KICKER who demands performance and not an ass kisser and back slapper.

 

In regards to Eli Manning......good for him and New York fans for getting a curtain call. Can't see anyone picking him up as a starter, though. Immobile quarterbacks with a weak arm are not in much demand.

[acasser]

3 hours ago, Matto_lsi said:

 

Also this, though unrelated - http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001083838/article/giants-likely-to-start-eli-manning-monday-vs-eagles

 

So glad to hear it!  With what we know now, is anyone surprised he lost to the Bills in week 2 and a road game against the division leading, and rival, Cowboys in week 1?  He got the short end of the stick.  I hope he has a good showing against the Eagles so he can go play somewhere else next year.  I mean, c'mon New York Jersey!  The guy gave you 2 super wins against the Pats, and is the only QB in NFL history to beat an undefeated team in the Super Bowl (and probably will always be the only one)!

 

This is how I put it to my Giants' fans who are friends and co-workers:  It's hardly surprising that now is the time the Giants are going back to Eli Manning.  The team has been mathematically eliminated from one of the weakest divisions in the history of the current 32-team/8-division format and the calendar just turned to December.  Ownership and management are getting shredded on talk radio, and there's talk of sweeping everything clean and starting over.  Again.  So of course they need some goodwill, and the way to get some of that goodwill back is to let Eli Manning start between now and the end of the season.  Maybe Daniel Jones really has that injury they're talking about, and maybe it's fabricated bullshit to give everybody some cover.

 

I figured that Eli Manning was likely to start the season finale because the Giants are at home Week 17.  So that he could "go out on his own terms".  They've just accelerated the schedule to distract from all their other issues.

 

As for next season?  I have my doubts that Eli Manning is going to play.  Whether or not Dave Gettleman is still GM, I don't think the Giants are going to bring him back.  There are plenty of other "veterans" who are going to be out on the market, most of whom are younger and better than Eli.  And I suspect Eli Manning isn't going to go somewhere for a sinecure but would harbor delusions that he could be the "missing piece" for a team that would otherwise be a contender if they had viable QB play.  Jacksonville might have been that place before this season and Nick Foles.

 

Eli Manning is done.  This is just the ending where he gets to ride off into the sunset instead of being pushed out of a slow-moving car along a desolate highway.

[PerryToxteth]

6 hours ago, majob said:

Harbough is making more at Michigan than he did as an NFL coach so any team wanting him will have to cough up serious money. And honestly, I don't see him leaving college anytime soon, it's an easier and better paying gig right now and even with our ire over him being unable to beat Ohio, he's still the best coach the school has had in years and we still love the guy

 

I think Harbaugh's the right guy in Ann Arbor, but if he doesn't start beating Ohio State soon, he's going to be the Wolverines' version of John Cooper. 

Of course, Copper managed to win a few Big Ten titles during his tenure. 

Edited December 5, 2019 by PerryToxteth

[Matto_lsi]

1 hour ago, acasser said:

*snip*

 

Out of curiosity, did you watch his first 2 games this season?  He had numerous accurate long throws.  I saw him hit his receivers off his back foot while scrambling for 40+ yard completions.  His arm didn't look to bad to me.  But other than the run game, his offense didn't give him much.  His O-line sucked.  When he got more than 2 seconds to throw, he hit his receivers with precision.  Sadly, half the time they'd drop the pass.  And that was if they were lucky enough to run an actual route and not look lost on the field.  Meanwhile, his defense was even more awful.  In the Dallas game, Prescott was telegraphing every throw and the D still couldn't figure out what was going on.  Most of the plays were incredibly obvious and formulaic, yet the Giants D was always 3 steps behind.  Prescott played pass with his receivers all night, untouched on either end of the football.  Allen did the same in the Buffalo game.  His receivers would just sit wide open in the middle of the field.  Watching the Giants D was like watching pee wee league playing college teams.  Manning may be a little slower than in his prime, yet that could be said about anyone once they're over 35 in the NFL.  Manning made a couple mistakes in those first 2 games, but he ultimately looked pretty good.  Yet all I hear is how he's done.  Yet Brady, who looks like he received a throwing arm transplant with an overcooked piece of spaghetti, is being praised as a god and invincible.  At the end of the day, the main difference is the Pats D is good and playing terrible teams while the Giants D is just awful, perhaps the worst in the league.  It'd be hard for any QB to win a game when their D is giving up 30+ points a game**; case in point, Daniel Jones going 0-8 the last 8 games.  Guess it wasn't just Manning.

 

** For reference, out of 12 games this season, the Giants D has given up 30+ in 7 games.  Furthermore, they've allowed 27+ points in 10 of their 12 games.  That's pretty awful.

[acasser]

Eli isn't mobile; heck, compared to most NFL QBs these days he's simply a sitting duck in the pocket because he doesn't have the speed or escapability that's expected in the position these days.  So he takes a fair number of sacks, and he tends to throw balls up for grabs in the vicinity of his receivers.  He's been like this for several years, no matter what the numbers say -- he's been pretty good in recent years at padding his stats late in games where his team is trailing (and often by a considerable margin).

 

The Giants' problems go far beyond the quarterback position, but Eli Manning hasn't been this huge positive for quite some time.  He's skated by for many years with that team and in this geogrpahic area based on his last name and those two Super Bowls, one of which he won when he (and the team) got hot at the right time, one of which was won largely by a great defense and pass rush and Manning being caretaker enough not to screw it up.

 

And there are going to be a lot of semi-established guys on the market this summer, from guys who are genuinely free agents to guys who will get cut by their teams.  There's going to be a large number of guys -- relatively speaking -- competing for not a huge number of jobs.  Some of those jobs will be backup positions, some of those jobs might be "caretaker" guys for a team that drafts a guy that they don't want to throw to the wolves straightaway.  And a lot of those teams are going to be awful.

 

I just don't see a logical landing spot for Eli Manning.  I'm not even sure the Giants bring him back next season even if he was content to be a backup and clipboard caddy and to be paid a salary commensurate with that.

[Matto_lsi]

Bears beating Cowboys 17-7 at the half, and that's with a terrible INT by Trubisky on their opening drive when knocking on the door for a score.  It could be 24-7!  Could Dallas be the next 2010 Seahawks?  If they lose tonight, it's looking pretty likely.  Unless the Eagles manage to pass them up! lol

 

Edit: And now, early in the 3rd quarter, it actually is 24-7

Edited December 6, 2019 by Matto_lsi