Opinions on PS4 backward compatibility

[hyappatuhyakuchu]

Folks looking at trophies now.....  I guarantee most folks on this site wouldn't even play the older games, if they didn't have trophies in them.

 

Fucking right!

[skateak]

Right so: Microsoft console architecture > Sony console architecture. Its the best we get if Sony absolutely refuses to come up with better alternatives. Every console generation, everyone releases updated models of their consoles. Native BC can always be added that way...

 

By George, someone else seems to have gotten it!

If you want to look at it like that then Wii> than all previous gen  for having full BC for Gamecube games, out of the box. Wii U would also be the best console on the market right now for having full BC of Wii games. Technically, it has the largest library out of the home consoles. The cell processor was way ahead of it's time. I don't even see a Titan being able to emulate it simply because the architecture of the cell is so unique. Developers either loved it, like Naughty Dog or they hated it, like Bethesda. I am sure the PS4 could emulate the 360 code on the system like the Xbone does but that would obviously never happen.

Edited June 19, 2015 by skateak

[Kittet3]

Unsure if I even want to enter this conversation, but ehh

 

I think that having BC would have been an awesome feature at launch, when a majority of games were still PS3 only, but at this point in the system's life, it seems just like a selling point. I used my PS3's backwards compatibly for all of 5 minutes with Crash Bandicoot, and when I realized the disk was scratched, I never even bothered to pay the five bucks to get it digital. Serious gamers will go out and buy a PS3/PS2/PS1 when the prices hit a low (current selling prices for a PS2 in my town is forty bucks on a good day) and enjoy the game in the correct setting and hardware.

 

The only difference for this generation that I see is digital games. I honestly don't believe Sony will cut out PS3 online support, I see the company going towards a more unified format where you pay for the games and upgrade your hardware. I don't understand why you can't put digital games on any device and that's not something I really wish to attempt to understand, but I don't think digital games on the PS3 will ever become unavailable. Think of how many digital only developers that don't upgrade their games to the PS4 and then learn that their games are unplayable? We'll have a riot.

 

From what I understand about Xbox move is the 'limited' portion, so it basically sounds like a PS Now rip-off that has physical games and a better pricing system- AKA PS Now done right. I think Sony is on the right path, however, not limited the market to those only with last-gen tech but making it so this gen can get last gen. Basically, XBox is catering to last gen customers while Sony is catering to this gen customers. I'm not saying PS Now is perfect, but with better pricing, options for pre-owned games, and a wider availability, I see it having a huge impact on the need for BC.

 

Finally, a smiley-

[Dr_Mayus]

Please say you are trolling. Gamers still buying games from their legacy and current library doesn't make them a profit?! Pass that dubby, brother!

Well not if they are buying them used...which most of them would be.

[DeterminedArrow]

I still have my PS2 (though I am selling the games I have the PS3/Vita remakes of such as Persona 4, KH, Final Fantasy X, etc) for my PS1 and other PS2 games (like Wild Arms, Star Ocean, Tales of Legendia, etc). One of the reasons I don't have a PS4 yet is I don't want to have yet another console hooked up (and yes, I am one of those who still plays her old systems - my N64 is still hooked up!)

[madbuk]

You bought a ps3 and then proceeded to buy PS2 games, your first set of plats include 4 old GoW games. You've shown that there is interest in previous generation games regardless of what you say. You're someone who actually chose to play old games before new games on your shiny new system... thats obviously a contradiction.

 

I'm not wasting my time with responses unless you begin to make sense.

 

EDIT: if you choose to then insist this is your second PSN account, you still chose to play PS2 games on a second account before your multitude of games so point still stands.

So you're asking for PSP emulation as well now? Seriously? (2 of the GoW games are PSP). Remasters aren't "PS2games" either, as they contain improved graphics, trophy support, multiple games on one disc in some cases, and extra features in other cases. You act as if remasters are just straight up ports when they aren't.

[Z1MZUM]

I can't see the PS3 being emulated on x86 architecture any time soon, regardless of who wants it so badly. Ps1 and Ps2 would be a simple emulation port but the idea of BC of PS3 games isn't so simple. Sure I'd love to see it but even if it's being worked on it;s a long way off.

 

I'm on the xb1 preview program and have tried a few games myself, they run ok but nothing mind blowing. Ms are trying to catch up any way they can by doing everything they said they wouldn't, like selling a console without kinect and BC. They are also trying to persuade people who own a 360 to update, it's good marketing but hardly mind blowing. I have tonne of messages on the XB1 from kids asking for preview program invites.

[Neputyunu]

I find it interesting when people have arguments like "But Nintendo has fullBC!"

.. Buddies, the first Wii was basicly an overclocked GameCube. This is why you can use GC memorycards, controllers and discs.

 

GC: IBM PowerPC 750 CXe, 485 MHz (~1.9 GFLOPS)

Wii: IBM PowerPC 750 CL, 729 MHz  (~ 2.9 GFLOPS)

Wii U: IBM PowerPC 750 CL, 3x1.24 GHz (~15.6 GFLOPS)

 

Again, the comparison with XBox360 and PS3:

 

*is imagination a PS3 which is just an overclocked PS2*

omg... PlayStation would be dead now. Because for the mass, there would be no reason for it.

Why Nintendo still is alive? Because Nintendo-Games (There isnt much other stuff anyway here... stupid regionlock), there are people buying a 3DS just because Pokemon (like me *cough cough*). But they are firstparty-games. Means, when the overclocked PS2 would be real, many games would not exist. Cant imagine Neptunia on XBox. Whats with Uncharted and stuff? Would look horrible and wouldnt be able to survive in this society where everything is just rated superficial.

 

Why the first NintendoDS was full BC?

Because it had a build In GameBoy Advance.

 

GBA: 16,77 MHz ARM7TDMI

NDS: 67MHz ARM946E-S + 33MHz ARM7TDMI

NDSi: 133 MHz ARM946E-S

 

Why Nintendo has fullBC? Because they are basicly selling you always the same hardware

Edited June 19, 2015 by Neputyunu

[TheVader66]

I find it interesting when people have arguments like "But Nintendo has fullBC!"

.. Buddies, the first Wii was basicly an overclocked GameCube. This is why you can use GC memorycards, controllers and discs.

 

GC: IBM PowerPC 750 CXe, 485 MHz

Wii: IBM PowerPC 750 CL, 729 MHz

 

*is imagination a PS3 which is just an overclocked PS2*

omg... PlayStation would be dead now. Because for the mass, there would be no reason for it.

Why Nintendo still is alive? Because Nintendo-Games (There isnt much other stuff anyway here... stupid regionlock), there are people buying a 3DS just because Pokemon (like me *cough cough*). But they are firstparty-games. Means, when the overclocked PS2 would be real, many games would not exist. Cant imagine Neptunia on XBox. Whats with Uncharted and stuff? Would look horrible and wouldnt be able to survive in this society where everything is just rated superficial.

 

Why the first NintendoDS was full BC?

Because it had a build In GameBoy Advance.

 

GBA: 16,77 MHz ARM7TDMI

NDS: 67MHz ARM946E-S + 33MHz ARM7TDMI

NDSi: 133 MHz ARM946E-S

 

Why Nintendo has fullBC? Because they are basicly selling you always the same hardware

 

That is true, Nintendo has been the least power console maker for several generations now.

 

[ONUOsFan]

I don't understand why you can't put digital games on any device and that's not something I really wish to attempt to understand, but I don't think digital games on the PS3 will ever become unavailable.

Put simply: a PS3 game is a PS3 game, whether it's digital or on disc. The code is the same and it's built to work on the same Cell-based architecture. It would require the same amount of effort to allow a digital PS3 game to work on PS4 as it would a disc-based one.

[Manuelito]

Why should I spend 400€ to buy a next gen console to play old gen games.. This makes no sense.

[Superbuu3]

So you're asking for PSP emulation as well now? Seriously? (2 of the GoW games are PSP). Remasters aren't "PS2games" either, as they contain improved graphics, trophy support, multiple games on one disc in some cases, and extra features in other cases. You act as if remasters are just straight up ports when they aren't.

You selectively read there. You even put the relevant text in your quote I said "You've shown that there is interest in previous generation games regardless of what you say. You're someone who actually chose to play old games before new games on your shiny new system... thats obviously a contradiction."

 

That was in reply to a guy insisting no one wants to play old games. Doesn't even matter what console the games are on the point is he bought old games. If I was arguing for a specific console I would've worded it differently. I rarely say anything without a reason unless I'm making fun of people. Don't even try to attempt an tell me remasters are like playing new games, as those ones added no new content (also some remasters even take content out i.e SC:CT ).

[Bullstomp]

Why should I spend 400€ to buy a next gen console to play old gen games.. This makes no sense.

 

Why don't people get it? I'm guessing the people who are clueless are people that:

 

1. Only play games with trophies

2. Only started gaming with the PS4

 

I have hundreds of PS2 and PS3 games, many that I STILL play. Hell, I still play Legacy of Kain, Vagrant Story and XCom:UFO Defense of the PS1! The PS2 did it right, allowing me to play PS1 games on it, so I could put my PS1 in storage and save shelf space. Its a question of convenience, which Sony saw before anyone else but casts a blind eye to now.(Go back to my earlier example of six axis vs. dual shock). Its within the realm of possibility for them to make systems backwards compatible, but it is more profitable (PS Now) NOT to do it.

 

Someone mentioned earlier that we should vote with our wallet, I am seriously considering buying a Xbone (I can't believe I just said that!!!!)

[madbuk]

You selectively read there. You even put the relevant text in your quote I said "You've shown that there is interest in previous generation games regardless of what you say. You're someone who actually chose to play old games before new games on your shiny new system... thats obviously a contradiction."

 

That was in reply to a guy insisting no one wants to play old games. Doesn't even matter what console the games are on the point is he bought old games. If I was arguing for a specific console I would've worded it differently. I rarely say anything without a reason unless I'm making fun of people. Don't even try to attempt an tell me remasters are like playing new games, as those ones added no new content (also some remasters even take content out i.e SC:CT ).

I don't remember God of War I, II, CoO and GoS having trophies on the PS2/PSP....

He bought an old game which had been upgraded. There's a difference.

 

 

Someone mentioned earlier that we should vote with our wallet, I am seriously considering buying a Xbone (I can't believe I just said that!!!!)

 

You're considering buying an Xbone because they added support for 100 games, and will probably add about 50 more? Seriously? It isn't even full backwards compatibility, it's an emulator - and emulators can be buggy.

Edited June 19, 2015 by madbuk

[yellowwindow7]

Just as I thought.

as long as the PS Now feature is still running and people are using it, they don't care..

[Superbuu3]

Why don't people get it? I'm guessing the people who are clueless are people that:

 

1. Only play games with trophies

2. Only started gaming with the PS4

 

I have hundreds of PS2 and PS3 games, many that I STILL play. Hell, I still play Legacy of Kain, Vagrant Story and XCom:UFO Defense of the PS1! The PS2 did it right, allowing me to play PS1 games on it, so I could put my PS1 in storage and save shelf space. Its a question of convenience, which Sony saw before anyone else but casts a blind eye to now.(Go back to my earlier example of six axis vs. dual shock). Its within the realm of possibility for them to make systems backwards compatible, but it is more profitable (PS Now) NOT to do it.

 

Someone mentioned earlier that we should vote with our wallet, I am seriously considering buying a Xbone (I can't believe I just said that!!!!)

You like LoK, I have found a new bro we are a small group

 

You also raise a lot of valid points, Sony certainly did see the benefits of these types of things. You're complete right though some people literally will pay for trophy support, which I find hilarious. I said elsewhere the mentality of I won't use it so no one should have it is comical to. Whats even better is the PS2 era was considered one of the best periods in gaming to. Yet people are acting like old games = bad.

I don't remember God of War I, II, CoO and GoS having trophies on the PS2/PSP....

He bought an old game which had been upgraded. There's a difference.

Lol, trophies as an upgrade. This comment makes it clear you care more about trophies than games. At least try not to cover it up, just come in and say, what you think i.e. "I don't care about BC I only play games with trophies". I really don't get why people are so scared to admit what they think.

 

Just as I thought.

as long as the PS Now feature is still running and people are using it, they don't care..

A service that has been criticised constantly

[madbuk]

You like LoK, I have found a new bro we are a small group

 

You also raise a lot of valid points, Sony certainly did see the benefits of these types of things. You're complete right though some people literally will pay for trophy support, which I find hilarious. I said elsewhere the mentality of I won't use it so no one should have it is comical to. Whats even better is the PS2 era was considered one of the best periods in gaming to. Yet people are acting like old games = bad.

Lol, trophies as an upgrade. This comment makes it clear you care more about trophies than games. At least try not to cover it up, just come in and say, what you think i.e. "I don't care about BC I only play games with trophies". I really don't get why people are so scared to admit what they think.

 

A service that has been criticised constantly

Yes, and that's why I was playing Crash Bandicoot earlier

Also, it's not that old = bad. It's that old + trophies + improved visuals = better.

Edited June 19, 2015 by madbuk

[Maftet]

If they added BC they wouldn't have any reason to keep 'remastering' PS3 games to get people to buy them again.

One of the massive plus points of PS2 was that it could play PS1 games. For people with large libraries this is awesome because it saves time, space, potential fire hazards of more wires and general mess. 

 

I understand the PS3 was difficult to make games for and that the PS4 is 'just too different', but as far as I'm concerned, if something has BC it's a huge pro for the console.

And since they're 'remastering' like, half the PS3 library anyway, if you have already bought the game, they should just give you the remaster. It's not like they need to 'remaster' things and I do wish they would save the money of remastering shit, make it BC and focus on actually making PS4 games for the PS4.

(Yeah I get it's different studios that make games, not Sony).

 

Half the PS4 library atm is either old 'remastered' PS3 games or is shared with the PS3, judging how old the console is now, I'd say that's pretty pathetic.

Aside from 2 maybe 3 titles there's absolutely no reason to buy a PS4 as it is.

 

This whole debate was around when Sony scrapped BC from PS3 and people threw a hissy fit.

But don't worry guys, you can buy your games again! See how generous we are? You should be grateful!

 

The gaming industry is more about profit than customer satisfaction nowadays but people have grown up with this kind of model now and think it's normal. Games are not about fun, they're about profit and if you think of it like that, everything makes sense.

Like FarCreed 101.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Maftet

[Hailst0rm_2]

 

 

 

 

Depends on the way you are looking at it... 

Intel Core i7-4790K "Devil's Canyon" is probably currently the most strongest consumer-processor... ~96 - ~107 GFLOPS.

(AMD FX-9590 would maybe fuck it - also your electricity bill -, when not everything would be intel-optimized.)

 

What does GFLOPS mean?

 

 

 

Means it is currently technical nearly impossible to provide native bc.

Have you never wondered, why there is no PS3-emulation on PC? Now you know why.

Maybe also interesting: The US-Airforce build a supercomputer out of 1760 PS3s. (Maybe you remember, the first generation had Linux-support.)

 

 

 

This is not a realistic comparison, the PS3's CPU did not get anywhere near that amount of performance in real world use. It was powerful for specialized computation, but extremely slow in games by comparison.

A PS3 emulator exists on PC and is currently in its early stages http://rpcs3.net/

 

There may be some complications due to the different architecture but I still think it is very possible to do on PS4, especially if they go a similar route MS did and only offer partial BC and expand it in the future.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Hailst0rm_2

[madbuk]

If they added BC they wouldn't have any reason to keep 'remastering' PS3 games to get people to buy them again.

One of the massive plus points of PS2 was that it could play PS1 games. For people with large libraries this is awesome because it saves time, space, potential fire hazards of more wires and general mess. 

 

I understand the PS3 was difficult to make games for and that the PS4 is 'just too different', but as far as I'm concerned, if something has BC it's a huge pro for the console.

And since they're 'remastering' like, half the PS3 library anyway, if you have already bought the game, they should just give you the remaster. It's not like they need to 'remaster' things and I do wish they would save the money of remastering shit, make it BC and focus on actually making PS4 games for the PS4.

(Yeah I get it's different studios that make games, not Sony).

 

Half the PS4 library atm is either old 'remastered' PS3 games or is shared with the PS3, judging how old the console is now, I'd say that's pretty pathetic.

Aside from 2 maybe 3 titles there's absolutely no reason to buy a PS4 as it is.

 

This whole debate was around when Sony scrapped BC from PS3 and people threw a hissy fit.

But don't worry guys, you can buy your games again! See how generous we are? You should be grateful!

 

The gaming industry is more about profit than customer satisfaction nowadays but people have grown up with this kind of model now and think it's normal. Games are not about fun, they're about profit and if you think of it like that, everything makes sense.

Like FarCreed 101.

We aren't buying our games again... Pretty sure that GoW III wasn't 1080p on PS3

[Xionx]

Why don't people get it? I'm guessing the people who are clueless are people that:

 

1. Only play games with trophies

2. Only started gaming with the PS4

 

I have hundreds of PS2 and PS3 games, many that I STILL play. Hell, I still play Legacy of Kain, Vagrant Story and XCom:UFO Defense of the PS1! The PS2 did it right, allowing me to play PS1 games on it, so I could put my PS1 in storage and save shelf space. Its a question of convenience, which Sony saw before anyone else but casts a blind eye to now.(Go back to my earlier example of six axis vs. dual shock). Its within the realm of possibility for them to make systems backwards compatible, but it is more profitable (PS Now) NOT to do it.

 

Someone mentioned earlier that we should vote with our wallet, I am seriously considering buying a Xbone (I can't believe I just said that!!!!)

 

So your point is that Sony should build in a system , that costs more -> console costs more for every one,  because you have no space for some consoles on your shelf /table? I understand it if ppl say they dont want to buy a ps3 to play all the ps3 games, when they startet playing with PS4,  but thats not your point (you have hundreds of games , so i think you already have the consoles) . there are switches for HDMI to buy , so you dont need TV-screen with multi slots (i just say this for some ppl complaining for manuell switching cable every time) . 

 

Dont get me wrong , im not against BC , but i dont see why everyone with diffrent opinion is "clueless". 

 

PS: if you switch to Xbone .... you cant play your PS2 /Ps3 games there either. (or is it neither? sry bad english)

Edited June 19, 2015 by Xionx

[Neputyunu]

This is not a realistic comparison [...]

 

In reality no comparison is realistic. Some people today think a smartphone can beat a PS4 ... because GHz and Cores ... But non of them ever thought about that their smart Toys have no fans and it isnt possible to compare CPUs just by GHz and Cores.

 

[...] the PS3's CPU did not get anywhere near that amount of performance in real world use. It was powerful for specialized computation, but extremely slow in games by comparison.

 

In theory AMD CPUs would be waaaay stronger than Intel CPUs, but they never are (in games).

Also, most games are multiplattform anyway. Nobody would make a superspecial-"PS3 is currently the most strongest plattform"-edition.

And maybe BC is still coming. Who knows... I mean, around 2007 PS3 games looked horrible. Because it was a new plattform and nobody had an idea how to deal with Cell. Maybe they find somewhen in the future a way to make the PS4 BC.

 

 

And if not... personally I dont care. I have my PS3 here and personally I dont like emulation. Playing GameBoy on PC feels horrible and very wrong for me. Then I played with Dolphin (GameCube and Wii Emu) and it felt even more wrong... then I connected an XBox360 controller and was like: OMG WHAT AM I DOING HERE? T_T

 

Oh and it has nothing to do with trophies for me... before I get accidently in that discussion too

I still have a GBA and an DS here... also im playing on my laptop Warcraft, Anno, Starcraft, Age of Empires, Age of Mythologies, Command & Conquer, Rise of Nations... and other stuff. Strategiegames. A genre so old that its nearly dead nowadays. One of them is so old that I must run it under DOSBox. ... Nope, DOS has no Achievements.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Neputyunu

[Hailst0rm_2]

 

In reality no comparison is realistic. Some people today think a smartphone can beat a PS4 ... because GHz and Cores ... But non of them ever thought about that their smart Toys have no fans and it isnt possible to compare CPUs just by GHz and Cores.

 

 

In theory AMD CPUs would be waaaay stronger than Intel CPUs, but they never are (in games).

Also, most games are multiplattform anyway. Nobody would make a superspecial-"PS3 is currently the most strongest plattform"-edition.

And maybe BC is still coming. Who knows... I mean, around 2007 PS3 games looked horrible. Because it was a new plattform and nobody had an idea how to deal with Cell. Maybe they find somewhen in the future a way to make the PS4 BC.

 

 

And if not... personally I dont care. I have my PS3 here and personally I dont like emulation. Playing GameBoy on PC feels horrible and very wrong for me. Then I played with Dolphin (GameCube and Wii Emu) and it felt even more wrong... then I connected an XBox360 controller and was like: OMG WHAT AM I DOING HERE? T_T

 

Oh and it has nothing to do with trophies for me... before I get accidently in that discussion too 

I still have a GBA and an DS here... also im playing on my laptop Warcraft, Anno, Starcraft, Age of Empires, Age of Mythologies, Command & Conquer, Rise of Nations... and other stuff. Strategiegames. A genre so old that its nearly dead nowadays. One of them is so old that I must run it under DOSBox. ... Nope, DOS has no Achievements.

I have no idea if a smartphone can beat PS4, but i'd say it is possible considering the PS4 CPU is supposedly something used in tablets. It will take many years for smartphones to have GPU power comparable to PS4 though.

 

Lol PC emulation is usually awkward if you're not using the original peripherals for the console. I still keep my old consoles but I personally won't touch my Gamecube or Wii games anymore though because emulation has gotten so smooth it feels inferior to play on the native hardware. Going from 4K downsampling in widescreen to 4:3 at 480p on gamecube is not a good feeling >_<

 

I just think all consoles should try to have backwards compatibility as an option and since an emulator is already being worked out on PC, Sony should be able to come up with their own on PS4.

[Neputyunu]

Lol PC emulation is usually awkward if you're not using the original peripherals for the console. I still keep my old consoles but I personally won't touch my Gamecube or Wii games anymore though because emulation has gotten so smooth it feels inferior to play on the native hardware. Going from 4K downsampling in widescreen to 4:3 at 480p on gamecube is not a good feeling >_<

 

You can plug an original GameCube controller on PC?

Im not superficial, I dont care about how something or someone is looking. Sorry. Last time I did that I was around 14 years old.

Im still playing my old gameboy games and Im not like "omg that pixelated eyecancer graphics T_T" Pokemon Trading Card Game! ♥♥♥ So sad that the second game never came to NA/EU.

Also I had no probelsm with that the Sly Triology was just an upscaled port.

Im gaming for fun and a story, not for graphics

But... I also dont get why everyone is loosing their minds about modding for Fallout. Imo, when a game "needs" mods to be good, the devs failed at their job.

Im paying them for their creativity, to tell me a story. Not that I can/must do what I want...

 

 

I just think all consoles should try to have backwards compatibility as an option [...]

 

Im not against it. But somehow I dont get what you want to tell me, because:

 

 

[...] since an emulator is already being worked out on PC, Sony should be able to come up with their own on PS4.

I have no idea if a smartphone can beat PS4, but i'd say it is possible considering the PS4 CPU is supposedly something used in tablets. It will take many years for smartphones to have GPU power comparable to PS4 though.

 

I dont think a tablet can emulate a PS3.

Keep in mind, you said yourself:

 

 

A PS3 emulator exists on PC and is currently in its early stages http://rpcs3.net/

 

It took even a while for PC and its just in early stages...

[Aoi Nagisa-chan]

No need for backwards compatinility fo the ps4