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Average Rarity change


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I'd like to point out to the various people who think grinding is difficult that it isn't. It is tedious. There is a difference. Pressing :cross: a million times without any time limit isn't difficult in the slightest bit, but it takes a lot of time. You could press it once a day over a million days and you would still get it or you could press it a million times in a row and get it. That isn't difficult; it's tedious.

Edited by Urushiro
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Difficulty is subjective and assigning it to games is meaningless.

 

It is subjective on a individual scale, but on a larger universe-scale it will tend to objectivize/normalize, that's the magic of The Law of The Larger Number. If a trophy is at 1% is for some reason.

 

Individuals use this site so your first premises fails there. The Law of Large Numbers doesn't apply to a small part of a small group of a small group of a small group. Gamers>console gamers>Playstation console gamers>trophy hunters>PSNProfiles Users. Hardly a larger universe-scale. 

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Well said FawltyPowers

 

There are clearly issues with both proposed methods, but it seems to me that the avg. rarity proposed in this thread is indeed a better indicator of trophy hunting skill/perseverance than the current method. The current method tells you almost nothing about the player's style or preference.

Edited by marcisaie
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1)

There are a lot of cases where raritry spikes when a game is put on PS+ and people just try it out and then decide not to pursue the plat or 100%.

It's not a matter or difficulty alone.

And if a plat/100% requires 300 hours, you can very well expect that a lot of people will not purse it to the end.

Difficulty is only one of the reason for rarity.

2)

Average rarity has really no reason to be read with the same logic of single trophy rarity. There are very very very few games with a full list of ultra rare, so there is no reason for people to read their 45% average rarity as "uncommon".

I can't give out a decent example because I don't have the data for all users, but it's much more likely that the "ultra rare" of average rarity is around 30%, so you should read your average rarity in this context.

Changing how the average rarity is calculated arbitrarily because you don't like an average is unreasonable.

If you want something else just petition for a new additional stat.

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It's funny how many people cry about the rarity percentage of DLC trophies being high, because I'm 90% sure I've seen Sly say he made it like that because this site's users wanted it that way.

 

There are a lot of people on the site. Perhaps surprisingly, it's possible for a plurality to want average rarity to be as it is, while a non-trivial minority wants something different.

Edited by starcrunch061
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Also, implying that it's stupid of people to want it changed back, is like implying that anyone who wants any old decision overturned is stupid. 

 

Yeah. I don't get why people have to make fun of others for thinking differently in general, or even (gasp!) changing their minds about something. But then again, it's the internet, where pretty much everybody is stupid. Except me, of course.

Thank you for taking my words out of context by cutting half of the sentence.

 

It was a joke. No need to get so up in arms. Sheesh...

I deleted it, so as not to ruffle your feathers further.

Edited by starcrunch061
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Some people still think (understandably) that having a game with ultra rare trophies will mean your average rarity will be lower. That can be the case sometimes but only if there aren't too many Common/Uncommon trophies to balance it out.

 

I'm going to put some actual statistics together and just so I'm not grabbing random unbalanced games I'll instead use the list that Sergen wrote. Sergen is one of the best players I've come across so his list is a good one to use.

 

If you played the following 11 games to 100% here are the figures (approximately):

 

Average Rarity

  1. Fight Night Round 4 - 21.85% (Uncommon)
  2. Far Cry 2 - 19.45% (Rare)
  3. Binary Domain - 32.99% (Uncommon)
  4. Red Faction: Guerrilla - 28.86% (Uncommon)
  5. The Chronicles of Riddick: Assault on Dark Athena - 17.24% (Rare)
  6. Wipeout HD - 21.06% (Uncommon)
  7. Dyad - 4.72% (Ultra Rare)
  8. GTA IV - 23.99 (Uncommon)
  9. Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 - 40.51% (Uncommon)
  10. Ninja Gaiden 3 - 44.76% (Uncommon)
  11. Vanquish - 36.31% (Uncommon)

Average Rarity = 26.52% (Uncommon)

 

Average Difficulty (for want of a better title) - this is the single trophy that scores the lowest rarity

  1. Fight Night Round 4 - 0.20% (Ultra Rare)
  2. Far Cry 2 - 0.53% (Ultra Rare)
  3. Binary Domain - 0.64% (Ultra Rare)
  4. Red Faction: Guerrilla - 0.86% (Ultra Rare)
  5. The Chronicles of Riddick: Assault on Dark Athena - 0.90% (Ultra Rare)
  6. Wipeout HD - 1.21% (Ultra Rare)
  7. Dyad - 1.59% (Ultra Rare)
  8. GTA IV - 1.39% (Ultra Rare)
  9. Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 - 2.65% (Ultra Rare)
  10. Ninja Gaiden 3 - 2.17% (Ultra Rare)
  11. Vanquish - 2.72% (Ultra Rare)

Average Difficulty = 1.35% (Ultra Rare)

 

You maybe thinking though that 26.52% is a really low score to have and you should treat that as Ultra Rare, ok, but now take the following two games into consideration

  1. Prince of Persia Warrior Within - Average Rarity = 23.20%, Average Difficulty = 13.48%
  2. Prince of Persia The Two Thrones - Average Rarity = 22.41%, Average Difficulty = 12.98%

When it comes to lowering your Average Rarity you are better off having the two Prince of Persia games over 6 of the 11 Ultra Rare games.

 

Also the two Ninja Gaiden games score over 40% average rarity, more than Trine.

 

This is why it's not as straight forward as you think if you want to lower your Average Rarity, however, with Average Difficulty you will be hard pushed finding games with a rarity lower than 1.35% and (personally speaking) I feel 1.35% holds more merit than 26.52% on your profile.

 

NOTE: When I say Average Difficulty I'm referring to the trophy that has the lowest score per game. You may prefer the term Average Game Rarity

Edited by FawltyPowers
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 would prefer the term "Lowest Trophy Rarity" and it can be found by sorting trophies by rarity.

 

That title makes more sense than "Average difficulty", and I think we should call it something else from now on to stop the "rarity does not equal difficulty debate". Thinking about it, a more accurate title would be "Average Rarest Trophy Rarity". It would make more sense, because his idea is to average the rarest trophy of each game together. Then again, that sounds stupid. :D

 

Reading more people's comments have actually changed my mind since I understand the idea better now. I think it would be a good idea to implement because I would actually be interested in lowering my...whatever you wanna call it over what's in place now; "average rarity". I've never even given it a second glance and the OP does make a fair point in saying that it's really difficult to lower your "average rarity". At the moment the majority of games have more rare/uncommon/common trophies than Ultra/Very Rare ones, essentially making it impossible to lower it without raising it at the same time.

I don't think it should replace average rarity, or outright implemented but maybe change the way average rarity works? I don't have any ideas for it myself but the way it's in place now (in my opinion) doesn't seem to work all that well for people trying to lower it.

Edited by LeetWolf2
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Problem with that is it doesn't include games without a Platinum, and for example there are a lot of games I've earned the 100% for that have rare trophies. Should my efforts to earn them be ignored just because they don't have a platinum trophy?

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I didn't know about the above topic, but from looking at it the OP is talking about average Platinum's.

 

I'm talking about the lowest rarity trophy for a game, it would normally be Platinum for a Retail game but as I've mentioned before I have a number of games were some of the DLC trophies are lower than the Platinum. In addition to this you're not taking into account digital games with no Platinum.

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Can't you ask for a new stat instead of arbitrary changing an existing stat that works as intended?

I suggest a new stat called "average completion rarity", which takes in account only the lowest % trophy achieved in every list. This way we can have a relevant stat, because I never used the current one this thread is meant to make better.

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I think the idea presented in the opening post is more like average of the rarest trophy in each game rather than average trophy rarity.

 

The average rarity doesn't show what a bad ass you are.

 

Personally, I'm far more interested in specific trophies you've been able to obtain. The ones that means much to me/you and how much effort, skill and practice went into getting it etc.

 

I don't look at someone's completition % and think what a bad ass gamer they are. If they have a very low completition %, I will think they aren't actually playing the games, but rather getting the newest coolest game and playing for a couple of hours before moving onto the next. If too high, I will think they are missing out, either by spending way too much time on certain games or skipping games they don't think they will 100%.

 

Then there's those who go for hard or long games all the time and has high completition ratio... yeah, I see you, and I think you're trying too hard.

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I suggest a new stat called "average completion rarity", which takes in account only the lowest % trophy achieved in every list. This way we can have a relevant stat, because I never used the current one this thread is meant to make better.

 

I don't understand how doing that would fix...well any system to be honest, let alone give us a relevant stat because would it not just give us biased results where there's games with several common trophies and an extremely small ammount of UR ones, or am interpreting this completely wrong?

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I don't understand how doing that would fix...well any system to be honest, let alone give us a relevant stat because would it not just give us biased results where there's games with several common trophies and an extremely small ammount of UR ones, or am interpreting this completely wrong?

Since it's commonly known that a single trophy can change the whole difficulty rating of any game, this stat would only consider the rarest trophy in each game. It would not matter if a game has 48 trophies at 98% if the last one and the plat themselves are 2%. The platinum (which should be rarier than the other trophy) would be the only one with the rarity counted toward this stat for this game.

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Since it's commonly known that a single trophy can change the whole difficulty rating of any game, this stat would only consider the rarest trophy in each game. It would not matter if a game has 48 trophies at 98% if the last one and the plat themselves are 2%. The platinum (which should be rarier than the other trophy) would be the only one with the rarity counted toward this stat for this game.

 

Oh shit, I thought you meant rarest individual trophy other than the platinum xD

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Oh shit, I thought you meant rarest individual trophy other than the platinum xD

That would be the case for games without platinums, though. All of what I mentioned would only be applied for achieved trophies, of course. If there is like a 100% with 2% trophy and the rest is like 10%, if you get the rarest trophy, it wouldn't matter for this stat if you bother getting the other trophies or not.

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Since it's commonly known that a single trophy can change the whole difficulty rating of any game, this stat would only consider the rarest trophy in each game. It would not matter if a game has 48 trophies at 98% if the last one and the plat themselves are 2%. The platinum (which should be rarier than the other trophy) would be the only one with the rarity counted toward this stat for this game.

 

I totally get the argument, but that's not what the average rarity % present. What it seems people want is something to impress others with, a statistic that show what hard and long games they've beat. Sadly, it doesn't. It instead would show the average of each game's rarest trophy rarity. In other words, it wouldn't show the amount, just the average of each game.

 

What this doesn't take into consideration is when a game got more than one difficult trophy, as in establishing how many difficult or long etc trophies you got. So one game can have several UR trophies that are damn hard to get, and a game with only one is "worth" the same when it comes to that statistics. You know what does count the amount? The UR count!

 

You could also make a case for that if someone plays a game that isn't particularly easy or short, but most people still get 100%, then that screws with your goal as well. Let's not forget if you ever play some easy game sparkled in with your hard/long ones. It simply wouldn't show what a bad ass you think you are.

 

And when I say, you, I don't mean you, TheYuriG.

Edited by MMDE
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I totally get the argument, but that's not what the average rarity % present. What it seems people want is something to impress others with, a statistic that show what hard and long games they've beat. Sadly, it doesn't. It instead would show the average of each game's rarest trophy rarity. In other words, it wouldn't show the amount, just the average for each game.

 

What this doesn't take into consideration is when a game got more than one difficult trophy, as in establishing how many difficult or long etc trophies you got. You know what does? The UR count!

 

You could also make a case for that if someone plays a game that isn't particularly easy or short, but most people still get 100%, then that screws with your goal as well. Let's not forget if you ever play some easy game sparkled in with your hard/long ones. It simply wouldn't show what a bad ass you think you are.

 

And when I say, you, I don't mean you, TheYuriG.

Although I realize that you said you didn't mean me, you quoted it and I keep thinking that you might be misunderstanding it? I meant to create another stat, I said it in the previous page and you might have missed it since your post created the 3 page here. I also said that I have no idea what the stat is meant to point out, hence why I said I never used it. Just a heads up in case I'm correct about you missing my previous post.

 

BTW, I really want this to happen, I'm curious to know what would be the rarity for Aela, Potent-Delusions and QuantumMercury, per example.

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Although I realize that you said you didn't mean me, you quoted it and I keep thinking that you might be misunderstanding it? I meant to create another stat, I said it in the previous page and you might have missed it since your post created the 3 page here. I also said that I have no idea what the stat is meant to point out, hence why I said I never used it. Just a heads up in case I'm correct about you missing my previous post.

 

BTW, I really want this to happen, I'm curious to know what would be the rarity for Aela, Potent-Delusions and QuantumMercury, per example.

 

Sorry, but I edited my post after you quoted me, where I corrected a couple of typos and made it more clear what I meant.

 

But my main issue with this idea is simply that it doesn't take into consideration how many rare trophies a game has. That if a game has one very rare trophy and tons of easy ones, that is "worth" more than a game with several a tiny bit less rare trophies and in general much harder and longer.

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I suggest a new stat called "average completion rarity", which takes in account only the lowest % trophy achieved in every list. This way we can have a relevant stat, because I never used the current one this thread is meant to make better.

Wouldn't it be more logical for an "average completion rarity" to be based on the Average Completion* of each game you own?

*You can find that stat in the game pages.

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Sorry, but I edited my post after you quoted me, where I corrected a couple of typos and made it more clear what I meant.

 

But my main issue with this idea is simply that it doesn't take into consideration how many rare trophies a game has. That if a game has one very rare trophy and tons of easy ones, that is "worth" more than a game with several a tiny bit less rare trophies and in general much harder and longer.

But that would be exactly my idea, it would be kind of an elitist stat, taking in consideration only the rarest of the bunch.

 

Wouldn't it be more logical for an "average completion rarity" to be based on the Average Completion* of each game you own?

It's not the same thing, but I can understand your confusion from the poor wording I did there.

Edited by TheYuriG
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