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Super-Fly Spider-Guy

This game should have been F2P

33 posts in this topic

Was interested in this game. I am no longer. This game doesn't even earn a rent from me now. Thanks for the headsup, krisarmy.

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Microtransactions in AAA games... 

 

They're never as optional as the publishers like to make out. 

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Different strokes for different folks I guess. 

 

The model seems set-up for casual players. The devs knew that the casual fanbase is their core audience, and they appear to have targeted them with this mode. Fair enough. If it's not so much a score-chaser's game anymore, then that's the way it is. 

 

Nice to see a dissenting POV on the GHTV issue. Welcome, and I hope you hang around in the forums @immortalruin.  :wave:

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Hmm, I actually disagree entirely. I've been playing for a few hours each day for a week now. GHTV is clearly "the place to be", yes, there's only 42 songs in the live mode/quickplay which is a little sparse though still enough to spend a long time trying to master all the songs on expert as the new 6 button guitar has provided (in my opinion) a very welcome change to an otherwise far too familiar genre and i'll be spending a lot of time in there too in the future.

As for GTHV, there are 200 songs at launch with an extra 70 planned before Christmas and even more beyond that. This has replaced the old DLC model so all future songs will be added to this and they can all be played for free. I've found the game to be incredibly generous in handing out the in game gold coin currency. I'm earning around 160 per song in the free channels which is a lot as they constantly stream new songs all day. I can tune in for half an hour on one when they're playing rock, switch to the other which is playing metal hour an hour, tune in later in the day to play pop for half an hour. It doesn't feel like a grind to me. It's a great way to discover new music, which songs I like playing, and to just have fun. I've been playing for a week and I've already played more songs for free on the channels than I ever would have been able to afford to purchase and experience on the old DLC model, and I've earned enough in game gold coins to purchase 80 plays that I can use to play 80 of the songs for free, make three guitar skill upgrades, and purchase an extra profile picture and highway customisation, with 8,000 gold coins now remaining and waiting to be spent. All for free, without ever spending an extra penny of real world money.

Perhaps my experience is totally different to yours because maybe we're different types of players. I suppose you could say I'm more "casual", I enjoy playing a variety of songs and I'm not overly concerned with playing the same one over and over. Either way I have to say I'm totally loving this new DLC model which I'm surprised to say as I was very concerned about the prospect of microtransactions in the game but as it turns out the system has been very generous to me, I haven't had to spend a single penny of real money and yet I've played more songs than I ever have done on a music game and will continue to do so if they support the game in the way they said they would.

It's very easy in my opinion to get caught up and angry about the GHTV model when there's 200 songs there waiting to be played and yet you need these tokens and so on to play a song on demand. However, these are the new "dlc". You never would have had access to 242 on disc songs on any of the old games available to be played on demand for free whenever you wand nor would I have expected that amount to be offered. Yes, it's annoying that we can't choose to ignore the play system and have the opportunity to spend a little money to purchase one of the GHTV songs permanently as we could have done previously. Anyone who is a "score chaser" might oppose the new system for understandable reasons. It is very reminiscent of the free to play mobile phone game model. But for the majority like me who just want to hop in and play a few songs and experience as much as we can, it's great. We can do it all for free. I love it.

If you like the 6 button guitar, that's cool, I'm not big on it but it gets the job done most of the time, that's not my gripe. "The place to be" as you put it, requires internet, requires coins, requires connection to their network. Any time you buy something on disc and you need more than the disc to play it, is bullpoop. And by putting more songs, and by extension, emphasis, on that mode, they're being a bit whorish. 

 

I've found the game to be incredibly generous in handing out the in game gold coin currency.  The game is generous when it gives you some tokens to play the songs? That's what annoys me in the first place, that mind set they want you to have. They aren't generous for letting you play some of the songs, they are stingy for not including them on the disc from the get go. I appreciate your opinion and decent sized post, and you're fair attitude, so I know you're not just a sheep who's disgruntled, but this isn't right man. You should never feel grateful for a game "letting" you get some tokens and play some of it's content. You don't have to feel annoyed about the fact that it essentially shipped with day one DLC that should have been on disc, but you definitely don't be grateful for them letting you try some of it out. I was getting around 120 on average for songs, sometimes more, sometimes less, so kudos on that, but even then, that's nearly 10 songs for 1000 coins and if you needed 6k to buy a bunch of replays then you're gonna run out REALLY quick if you're less good at the game.  I've been playing for a week and I've already played more songs for free on the channels than I ever would have been able to afford to purchase  That's all well and good, except that these songs are only playable online. You buy the game, you play the game, and you never get to play those songs unless you're in this mode. Here's an example, my girlfriend loves MCR right, and Na Na Na (a song by them) was literally pictured on the box for the game, yet you can only find it in the online mode. Now she sucks at these games, and she sucks even harder with the new guitar, there's no way she could keep playing her one song without forking over some cash in the end unless it has a token regeneration thing.

 

Just on the whole man, this is F2P 101. They lure you in with some free tokens, they give you some more, they give you a bunch, they tell you you're doing great, they let you have fun for a while, and then they reach for your wallet. Sure, say me and you are really good and we can just keep earning enough points to keep playing (by the laws of diminishing returns, we won't though) that's all well and good, but average Joe shmoe won't and they'll have to cough up a lung for the game. Watch the South Park episode on F2P games, they summed it up perfectly. IF this mode had have been released for free download, and just required you buy a guitar, I think it would have been a step in the right direction, it's not a bad mode, it's just a bad idea in a full priced, hell, more than full priced, game.

 

 for the majority like me who just want to hop in and play a few songs and experience as much as we can, it's great. We can do it all for free. I love it. That's true, except it's not for free. If it was free, it would be great, like how Singstar went free when they realized no one wanted to pay them anymore, instead, all the casuals who this is obviously for, are instead needing to spend 150 dollars on a game and guitar, to play the mode that should have been free in the first place.

 

I see your point man, and it's valid, but I feel like we're kind of going for the same thing. You like the mode, sure. I think the mode should have been free since it's all online and F2P based, and the way you talk about it, it seems like you're kind of taking it as a F2P experience, but glossing over the part where you had to shell out a bunch of money for it. I'm not ragging on the mode (again), because it's a good idea in most respects, but it just doesn't belong in a 150 dollar console game. It should have went the Singstar route. Hell, release the main Live part of the game on disc/paid download, and then have this GH TV stuff as a free download. Admittedly you can play it for a while, but it will eventually make even the best of us either wait for tokens or shell out some cash, and that, that is a F2P thing, not something I want to see in any full console title.

 

One more thing though, as for discovering new music, that used to happen on disc as well. Tonnes of bands I love now I had never heard of before their appearance(s) in Guitar Hero games. Extreme-Play With Me, is one of my all-time favorite songs thanks to GH II. They were all on disc though. I love (crappy bands like) Green Day, but releasing the game with 1 of their songs and 2 more only playable online is a dick move to all their fans. Maybe I'll just bust out Green Day Rock Band when I need a GD fix.

 

Anyway man, thanks for replying, always nice to have a discussion online that doesn't revolve around yelling profanity (okay, maybe I did that, but it wasn't to be taken aggressively), and who's mother we'd had sex with. Have a good one, bud.

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"Just on the whole man, this is F2P 101. They lure you in with some free tokens, they give you some more, they give you a bunch, they tell you you're doing great, they let you have fun for a while, and then they reach for your wallet."

It's funny you should say that because I started noticing today that they were quite clever in their use of real world money because you can only buy plays, everything else can only be purchased with the gold coins but they're pretty expensive. My final hero power upgrade cost 15,000 gold coins which took a few hours to save up but then I had no coins to purchase any plays so I suppose a lot of people will then just spend a few pounds to buy the plays thinking it's no big deal but it all adds up I n the long run I guess. That doesn't really matter to me though cause I'm fine about hanging out in the free channels instead, I don't care what I'm playing so long as I'm playing something!! In fact, beyond the 100 plays trophy most of my future ones will probably just be stockpiled so I guess I can push the microtransactions to side than some others could.

To me this system genuinely is much preferable to the old model. I'd be more inclined to agree if the entire game was GHTV but there's still live mode to fall back on as well which is a fun enough as it stands too. I do get the point about the cost of the game vs the fact that you won't actually own anything in the tv part of the game though, I never really thought about it in that way and yeah it is a bit iffy, but that's moden gaming for you I guess lol. The whole industry is a bit dodgy these days.

Edited by immortalruin
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To me this system genuinely is much preferable to the old model. I'd be more inclined to agree if the entire game was GHTV but there's still live mode to fall back on as well which is a fun enough as it stands too. I do get the point about the cost of the game vs the fact that you won't actually own anything in the tv part of the game though, I never really thought about it in that way and yeah it is a bit iffy

I'm with you really, I think this is a much better set up than the old school "pay x amount of dollars for x amount of song/s" way of DLC delivery, and GH Live mode on it's own is fine. But this mode, with how it handles money and tokens and stuff, it doesn't belong in the full package. As a free download it would be excellent, but when it's included in the full package it doesn't really bring that much to it, and it weighs the whole thing down by bringing microtransactions into the mix. 

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If you compare with what we are used to (previous games and RB), maybe you should see it this way :

- Game alone : 40$ (cheaper than usual, with less songs)

- Controller : 40-60$ depending on where you get it (I'm French, got the bundle for 75€ instead of 100€)

- GH TV : Free

 

On the other hand, Rock Band for instance, got a game that cost a bit more, let's say, 60$. But, it's still 40$ more expensive. Some may say that it's for a better controler, other that it's for a better songtrack/no F2P model, or maybe, you could say it's 40$ too much.

Acutally, you can pay those 40$ in Hero Cash to buy 300 "Plays" which are 400 as you will win some while using thoses 300. But you can use it on a much larger tracklist ... that will be increased each week for "free".

 

 

But yeah, of course, I get that this F2P model can piss off some "hardcore" players. ;)

Edited by TheTekator
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Got a question concerning the TV Mode. @immortal, you are mentioning free channels in your posts, so you don't need "plays" to plug into that channel and play a bunch of songs ?

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Meh, I was a drummer in xbox RB and they left out every instrument except the guitar in this game. I don't care for those guitars much anyways and hearing the complaints on lack of stats +other features in RB4 I will be saving a TON of $$$ by sitting out this whole music game revival. Maybe it should have stayed dead as a whole. Wonder how all of those who had midi electronic drums for RB3 are liking this revival with no practice mode.

 

On topic:

GH is activison and I imagine if it cost any less those free play channels would be filled with bad indie songs and horrible metal (to the point its just noise and screaming) true F2P fashion, but who knows maybe they will patch and tweak some things later like they did with diablo 3 auction. I never played WoW and don't have their hearthstone app so I can't speak to experience on their business practices in these regards but might do well to research that if your interested in this game. They could very well end up adding a subscription service a few years down the line.

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Got a question concerning the TV Mode. @immortal, you are mentioning free channels in your posts, so you don't need "plays" to plug into that channel and play a bunch of songs ?

No, there's two channels at launch with a third to be added soon. They all run 24/7 with different programming, eg: at 6pm channel 1 could be playing rock for an hour while channel 2 plays indie. You can drop in at any point for free, no play tokens required. Of course the music is streamed automatically with the play list already decided so the channels don't let you play a specific song that you want but you can hop in when it's playing the genre you enjoy, earning gold coins along the way which when can be exchanged for plays ti play a song on demand.

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No, there's two channels at launch with a third to be added soon. They all run 24/7 with different programming, eg: at 6pm channel 1 could be playing rock for an hour while channel 2 plays indie. You can drop in at any point for free, no play tokens required. Of course the music is streamed automatically with the play list already decided so the channels don't let you play a specific song that you want but you can hop in when it's playing the genre you enjoy, earning gold coins along the way which when can be exchanged for plays ti play a song on demand.

Thanks you for the reply ;) That sounds good, because I just want to play songs. If I want to play a certain song, then I'm gonna use some play tokens, but else this isn't a problem for me at all.

I can understand if someone is annoyed by this type of DLC, but it's Activision we're talking about. They aren't customer friendly.

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Oh Activision you pricks.

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With the free channels, I did not fully understand them at the time, yes you can play them for free. So in a sense, you can play GH TV without ever having to spend money, however, you will still need tokens to pick your song and generally speaking, most people will want to choose their songs. It's still a really poor setup, but after letting it sit for a while, it's even worse because I can actually see some potential here, but there's just, I don't know.

 

If this mode had have been F2P though, like I still think it should be, it would have been superb, though I doubt they'd have kept the free channels free.

 

$150 is too much to ask when your game has a mode that is this reliant on the internet, play tokens, and actual money being inserted into it. That was and is my main gripe with this, the freemium bullcrap weighs down the game substantially and it does not belong in a full game, standalone it would have been more than fine.

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That's pretty stupid, I'll probably end up getting RB4 instead if I ever get a game like this

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That's pretty stupid, I'll probably end up getting RB4 instead if I ever get a game like this

I would have much preferred Rock Band, and I knew that going into this game as well, but here's the thing, I love these kinds of games, and Guitar Hero, with it's shitty new guitar (whether I like it or not, the difference justifies the purchase of the guitar over just using an old one) was 109 on sale (and then I took another 35 off with another promotion) whereas Rock Band hasn't dipped a cent under 250 anywhere for the same old guitar I bought brand new for 30 bucks in 2009 and just the base game. Sorry guys, but if you want to charge that much for that little after being away for so long, are you really going to be surprised when no one buys it here?

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Good lord I thought it was bad when All Star Battle did it with the timer, but microtransactions in a $150 game? Have we all forgotten how shady Activision are? And to everyone defending it (of which there are a disgustingly large amount of people) I would much rather a decent sized track list, and for a song I download I am able able to KEEP AND FUCKING PLAY WHENEVER I WANT, AS MANY TIMES AS I WANT AND NOT HAVE TO BE SUBJECT TO THE WHIMS OF MY INTERNET CONNECTION.

 

Christ, this is not something people should be defending. The Horse Armour in Elder Scrolls 4 was supposed to be a warning; we laughed at it then, but now it's become so ingrained that now we're accepting it and even defending it. It's beyond disgusting that we as a society have become so accepting of being fucked up the arse by corporations like this. 

 

Sorry I got a bit angry but it gives me the shits that they are now actively rubbing it in our faces.

 

Oh, and not to mention that the GHTV tracks are usually MUCH shorter because they use the music video version of it (at least Hanger 18 did). 

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Good lord I thought it was bad when All Star Battle did it with the timer, but microtransactions in a $150 game? Have we all forgotten how shady Activision are? And to everyone defending it (of which there are a disgustingly large amount of people) I would much rather a decent sized track list, and for a song I download I am able able to KEEP AND FUCKING PLAY WHENEVER I WANT, AS MANY TIMES AS I WANT AND NOT HAVE TO BE SUBJECT TO THE WHIMS OF MY INTERNET CONNECTION.

 

Christ, this is not something people should be defending. The Horse Armour in Elder Scrolls 4 was supposed to be a warning; we laughed at it then, but now it's become so ingrained that now we're accepting it and even defending it. It's beyond disgusting that we as a society have become so accepting of being fucked up the arse by corporations like this. 

 

Sorry I got a bit angry but it gives me the shits that they are now actively rubbing it in our faces.

 

Oh, and not to mention that the GHTV tracks are usually MUCH shorter because they use the music video version of it (at least Hanger 18 did). 

No fucking shit. 

 

No fucking shit, again. You know the song More Than A Feeling? That's an awesome song, or I like it anyway. When it previously appeared in Guitar Hero it was the album version, but in GH TV, it's the video version which cuts out a solid 30 odd seconds of stuff in the middle, admittedly it's kind of filler stuff but still bullshit.

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I was just curious about the $150 price that has been mentioned a few times in this thread. I paid $99 US for the ps4 version with one guitar. Are there other options that cost $150?

Edit: NM I see the 2 guitar bundle is 150

Edited by VerCettI
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Really glad I read this article. I was considering to buy the game, because I really loved Guitar Hero II and III, but after reading this, I don't care about GH: Live anymore.

 

Honestly, why did they had to do this to the franchise? I understand it was already partly dying but this isn't helping. The previous games (that I played) were so much fun, but this whole idea of adding these tokens just doesn't do it for me. 

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Put me in the positive camp when it comes to GHTV. Instead of endlessly playing the same song for a compulsive 100%, they throw something at me and I'll rock it. It's a different kind of challenge, but personally I have often loathed the indecision that creeps up me when I have to choose songs. Also, I finally feel like I'm improving my Guitar Hero skills as opposed to learning specific songs.

 

As GHTV grows, its value-for-money will only grow. Granted, Rock Band keeps existing DLC libraries intact, but then why bother in the first place when you can just pick up the prev-gen Rock Band. GHTV makes a lot more sense for both newcomers and reinvesters.

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