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The WWE Discussion Thread

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Looooong overdue.  Bayley's finally interesting again.  Corbin however, isn't. I'll give credit where it's due, he had a really good match with Cedric but the damage's done.  He's never going to be anything other than a charisma black hole.  Hopefully Cedric's crowd reaction will keep his push going.

Edited by skidmarkgn
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9 minutes ago, skidmarkgn said:

Looooong overdue.  Bayley's finally interesting again.  Corbin however, isn't. I'll give credit where it's due, he had a really good match with Cedric but the damage's done.  He's never going to be anything other than a charisma black hole.  Hopefully Cedric's crowd reaction will keep his push going.

 

I liked Corbin in NXT, but he's been average since being promoted.

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Actually looked up Bayleys heel turn because I got somewhat intrigued by how they would approach the turn of what basically always was an overgrown mark child into an interesting heel, instantly got reminded of why I don't really follow the product anymore. I mean come on, Bayley is what once was called a lifetime face, someone with so much natural predestination towards being a face, from how she looks, how she talks, how she carries herself, her background and her real life personality that you'd need a truly horrific action for her to have any chance as a heel. Someone like that needs to actually break the fans hearts and become a target for nuclear heat, we are talking "Eddie Guerrero turns on Rey Mysterio" levels of vile, but what was presented instead? A defensible action, her aiding her best friend who turned heel, giving a few half arsed chair boops to someone she has not really been all that close with for quite a while and then being almost the same happy little pumpkin one day later. Making matters worse is that Sasha Banks would have been much rougher to Becky(intentionally or not), a beating was coming already, so the action becomes just not actively stopping her best friend from doing her new thing.

 

Well it was worth looking into at least, tell me when the fiend is returning because aside from having very minor hopes that they finally do something worthwhile with Rowan, even though the guy is not exactly super charismatic or a prodigy in the ring, I still have zero interest in pretty much anything the company is doing at the moment, especially with the King Of The Ring clearly heading towards having Corbin in every possible remaining match.

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Finally got around to seeing WALTER vs Tyler Bate from NXT UK Takeover and if you haven't seen it I really really recommend watching the match at least. It's worth the final hour watch.

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My heart wants Ricochet vs. Gable because, c'mon, how insane would that match be, but my head is telling me Corbin vs. Gable.  Guess in this world of upward change some things are gonna remain a constant, like Corbin getting pushed even though he's as dull as they come.  Still, the tourney has been better than I ever anticipated and guys like Cedric and Chad have really gotten a chance to shine.  Gable's "underdog" story (along with his in-ring talent of course) is making him easy to root for and Cedric Alexander actually got a good match out of Corbin (no easy task) in front of a hot crowd, that can only mean good things for now. 

Also glad to see Rowan get a chance to break and I'm very interested in Bayley's heel turn.  The Fiend getting a title shot at HiaC is kind of bumming me out though.  WWE's painting themselves into a corner with that one.  On one side, he HAS to win, which will water him down in my eyes.  He'll have to make more appearances because he's the champ and the mystique will fade... although, I guess Bray could just carry the weight with his funhouse character in between Fiend matches which wouldn't be so bad.  Or, he loses... his second match, which would be a DIS-AS-TER.  The only thing I can really think of to get them out of the jam would be The Fiend absolutely destroying Seth to the point of the match being thrown out, which would be a super lazy cop-out.  Good to see Shinske getting a reset too, it's a shame it got to the point of him having to squash jobbers to re-establish his character but I doubt it'll take long before he and Sami are back into a real feud with someone for the IC title.

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When Smackdown goes to Fox and they have the draft does that mean they're re-instating the brand split or are they under the impression it still exists and they're just gonna keep on keepin' on?

 

I'm also REALLY hoping they strap Sasha tonight (the match is starting as of this message).  Becky fever has died down a bit and putting the belt on Sasha helps her and Bayley simultaneously.  Becky had a great run but the Bayley turn + Sasha re-turn needs a title on both to truly work.

Edited by skidmarkgn
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CageSideSeats is claiming/stating the draft will put the brand split back into effect after Hell in a Cell for the SmackDown move to Fox and they are bringing in known Fox Sports people to announce picks.

 

In other words... NFL Draft except with WWE.

 

I hope this sticks. The 'Wild Card' rule was ridiculous to begin with.

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Pushing Corbin and Lacey, completely killing all the momentum Cedric bulit up over the tourney, making both tag divisions (male and female) into a laughing stock, continuing Cesaro's complete burial, and inserting a returning Rusev into the single stupidest storyline in the WWE all happened last night.  Something tells me Vince is beginning to take over more and more while Paul is getting less and less.

 

Although, the AOP vignette was awesome and, of course, Bray Wyatt/The Fiend is still the best thing I've seen in years.

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Can someone please explain to me why Fox thinks it's a good idea to have their champion be a lazy ass part timer? 😡

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3 hours ago, SelectiveGamer said:

Can someone please explain to me why Fox thinks it's a good idea to have their champion be a lazy ass part timer? 1f621.png

Name value.

Pure and simple

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3 hours ago, Martain2 said:

Name value.

Pure and simple

 

I eagerly await the vast amount of complaints they will inevitably get for them to quickly backtrack and not do this BS 😡

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Sounds like awful things are coming, if they really make Brock WWE champ, then they really shit the bed this time.

Warning: LONG rant and analysis of why they are probably about to royally fuck up incoming, cause I need a reason not to try and complete a certain shitty game that is ruining my day at the moment, and cause I haven't done one of these in a long time. I will assume that top guys, the few real top guys fighting each other will most likely bury each other to some needless degree, because that seems to mostly be standard nowadays.

 

GENERAL PROBLEM

I am a big fan of Brock, always was and always will be, but he should not become champion at this moment, rare for me to say this but its true. The reasons are this, waste of burials and momentum, no one really benefitting from a lot of damage done to the divisions, and most importantly the threat of wwe booking themselves into a very terrible no win situation with the FIEND. Putting someone over nowadays means letting him bury other wrestlers since the company seems to have mostly forgotten to do it in a way that both gets the new guy over and keeps the guy used to do it strong and somewhat credible, at least when it comes to creating these true top of the ladder kind of guys. This is not much of a problem when midcarders get buried to put over top talent, the wwe midcard has been breathing with iron lungs for way over a decade at this point anyway, and while it is not the worst it has ever been it is noticeable, it is a trade off, lose credibility for some and combine it into a single top star. However, the problem of this method becomes painfully obvious the moment other supposed top stars (who are higher caliber than midcard but nowhere near the top dogs, even if the company says otherwise) are being buried among the midcarders in great numbers to get one single guy over. Even worse if the select few top guys (usually 2-4) who profitted massively from it and are now supposed to be the absolute top, towering over the high caliber by a mile, are also now being used to get EACH OTHER over via burial, which usually ends up with no one winning since the top guy winning can't ascend higher than the highest step on the ladder where he already is, and the other guy losing just falls down hard. He also will have barely any equal company at his new status since so many other stars were stumbling down the card to even make his original ascend possible.

 

Giving names for that scenario and pointing out why I think they recently used the absolute worst order they probably could have for this, lets look at the 3 absolute top guys at the moment, the ones that have no equal because the company made them bury so many. First the names and a short explanation.

 

TOP GUYS

Brock Lesnar. Brock Lesnar was THE top guy, the beast incarnate, the streak breaker, most decorated guy, tearing through everything and everyone for many years, squashing the former absolute top guy John Cena in impressive fashion and making all others except Roman Reigns look like fodder in comparison, even guys like Braun Strowman. Roman Reigns taking the yard over did not work because fans hated him before they started to like him, sadly the reason for liking him was his cancer coming back and taking him out for long, so even though he is back now he is nowhere near the top spot where Lesnar still was, Lesnar basically kept his spot and should have crowned another top guy, a new one.

Seth Rollins. The new Reigns plain and simple, presented as the classic superhero that accepts all challenges, no one can defeat him square, he also defeated Braun Strowman, defeated top tag teams by himself, overcame insane odds for months on end and other faces fighting him sometimes even had to turn heel for it. This guy was a top star before his recent Lesnar match, already having bested the former in a match.

Kofi Kingston. No man has buried more people in such a short timeframe on his way up than this guy, by no fault of his own I might add, but oh boy it was hard to watch. Other supposed top stars like Randy Orton were made to look like jokes several weeks in a row, tag teams including tag team champions were downright fed to him, he defeated midcarders and high caliber guys in straight up gauntled matches, doing so much dmg to the credibility of his entire brand but at least being a dominant champion for quite a while now, so it was not for nothing.

 

EVENTS THAT LED TO THIS

So these 3 guys were unchallenged top guys before Summerslam, no one else came even close. Slightly before that you had one of the 3 top guys be mister mr in the bank. What do you do now, you have 2 of them being champions to somewhat keep them away from each other, and the third guy with a briefcase who can choose one of the others to fight, a dream scenario in theory. Possibilities are endless, so many ways to involve all 3 in an epic clash, or if it has to be just 2 to protect them both so that their credibility that was bought for such a high price does not get wasted to much. No shame in losing against another top guy after all even if it is a clean loss, not if the match was good and truly competetive.

 

However, what they ended up doing was making Brock cash in cowardly to secure the title win against Seth. While that kinda fit his character it made him look really pathetic given who he was, Brock freaking Lesnar basically indirectly admitting that he needs to do this, but we are still good here, no one suffered much damage, we were just robbed off a good match. Next the rematch of course, Seth as expected tearing through everyone to have an actual match this time, and an actual match loss after a tough fight would have been fine for either Brock or Seth, but they had to bury the beast by having Seth crippled for the match, showing him limbing and bandaged up like he just was in a car crash to his match with Lesnar, and then him still defeating the most dominant guy in the whole sports history. Brock freaking Lesnar losing against a crippled Rollins, and the title was kinda hot potatoed around for no reason.

 

So what does that mean? Seth is not better off than before since he already was at the top, if anything Brock looks a bit like a joke now, I expect that shit to happen to the likes of Baron Corbin or Dolph Ziggler, not to top guy Lesnar. You just wasted 1 of your 3 top guys for no actual benefit because Rollins just can't ascend to another level, cause there is none, he will be back facing midcarders and somewhat high calibers again and struggle against them somewhat to make for interesting matches, which did end up happening, making Brock look even worse since Rollins was not even 100% against him and won.

 

CURRENT DAY

So what do you do next if you are WWE? 2 Top guys left, you could build Brock back up, or use him to put someone else over to that level since he is still more credible than most due to his backstory, maybe build 2 top guys up in the meantime for more possibilities. Nah, what they do is they take the now embarrassed and defanged Lesnar, and if strong rumors are to be believed, make him bury the other top guy they build up for the better part of a year by making him tear through the whole roster even while outnumbered hard. So Seth kicks down Brock and does not ascend due to the ceiling, Brock most likely pulls down Kofi now to slightly ascend back up, but people will remember his atrociously embarrassing loss against a crippled Rollins, so he is nowhere near where he was for the time being, yet Kofi is fucked now if he gets the usual Lesnar treatment of laying down on his back from suplexes for most of the match, because he gets destroyed by a guy who just had this embarrassing loss, to the other champion no less, while that champion was crippled.

They had 3 absolute top guys and if they go through with Lesnar winning it they will have made 2 of them fall down, one more one less far, and the 1 guy that really supposedly benefitted from it got nothing out of it in the grand scheme of things, as he had the unbeatable superhero stuff down well before that and is back fighting the lesser opponents in surprisingly competetive matches considering the recent track record. Also, they trade a full time champion for a part time champion, something fans aren't too keen on at the moment, especially not for the prestigious WWE belt, that would then being owned by the guy who couldn't keep the less prestigious universial champion stepchild around his waist against a crippled challenger. Seems like everyone kinda lost there, but wait, it gets worse, and I promise to the 3 guys that actually read this far that I really get to the point about the fiend now.

 

IT MAY GET WORSE (assuming they make Lesnar champion)

While that whole impending disaster with the wwe title is about to go down, something even more stupid is on the horizon, and because of all the aforementioned things it could become a big shitshow. Rollins, the lone top guy left, now faces the fiend, the most promising upstarter in the company for many years, but with Lesnar as champion it basically is a no win scenario for the fiend and the wwe. I want to see more of the fiend, but it is way too early for the big title match and the nature of his gimmick makes things problematic as hell. Tell me who can actually win in this scenario, cause for the live of me I can't figure it out. If the fiend tears through Rollins and takes the belt we might get something interesting out of it, but where do you really go from there? The fiend does not seem like a character you can overexpose if you want him to keep his mystique, so if he is around each show, sometimes maybe even both shows, all that would be gone in less than two months. So do you keep him off tv instead? Possible and normally THE best way to go about it, but you just simultaniously crowned a PART TIME WWE CHAMP, which would therefore mean having BOTH world champions be absent, you can't do that if people are already getting pissed about one part time champ, and who would be supposed to be a believable challenger for the fiend anyway if best of the best top guy Seth Rollins, slayer of Brock Lesnar even whilst heavily damaged himself, can't do the job and loses outright?

Bad direction, so do you have the fiend lose instead? In his second ever match with the gimmick? Sounds like an awful deal too, but maybe you could soften the blow via a vicious assault from him leading to a disqual...wait there is no DQ in a Hell in a Cell match, fuck ok, do you do a no contest, something that was so overdone last year that people still are in danger to burst a testicle whenever one is even hinted at? Does not seem good either and also hard to do in such a match. Seeing how they are about to book themselves into a total corner here? Brock Lesnar becoming champ at this moment has many downs already, but it totally fucks up the only viable option for the other big feud going on.

 

I only follow wwe through the occasional short summaries of what happened on a pretty good site about it, and I read this threat. I was told yesterday was the best Smackdown show in recent memory and was really happy that things were improving, but then I see an article stating that Brock will almost certainly become WWE champ due to the new deal for Smackdown, and almost instantly I thought that this would probably fuck the fiend, the most promising upstarter, over hard, either him or the fans that have to sit through some bullshit finish for such a promising character, I had a legit Bray Wyatt vs Dean Ambrose TV explosion finish flashback. I just can't see this turning out good, not even decent, I think we are in for a big stinker in the next 1-2 months, the best I could see is happening at this point is the dreaded no contest that keeps Seth as champion, though even that'd be kinda hard to do in Hell in a Cell unless you incapacitate both of these guys, or make one run away from the building. Maybe I am not giving the writers enough credit, maybe they have a great plan I am too simple to detect, not impossible, but their recent track record suggests otherwise, and then I have to ask myself, if even I can figure out instantly that this probably leads to a horrible swamp in terms of booking, why can't they? Curious to see how they will solve this, I will actually watch the ppv and keep a closer look on the few weeks afterwards, they achieved that much at least. No expectations from me, I just want to be there to see scenario 1, the car crash, scenario 2, the underwhelming bore, or scenario 3, an actual good plan, unfold before my eyes.

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I never liked Brock Lesnar. Basically a steroid fueled wrestler who works "part time", yet gets away with shit because Vince McMahon is still head of WWE.

 

One of my friends in real life tried to get me to watch WWE recently. Tried to watch, couldn't help but cringe at what it is now.

 

Watching those old 1980s - 1990s - early 2000s WWF shows makes me have tears in my eyes. It was so fucking good. No wonder millions of guys idolized Hulk Hogan, The Rock, Stone Cold Steve Austin and all those greats who left their mark.

 

I grew up on guys like Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit and to see the sport as it is today I just can't help but shake my head. There are fans much older than me who still enjoy WWE but it's definitely targeting a much different audience now than the audience that was watching some 15 - 20 years ago.

 

It's basically "I'll give the WWE a chance, see how it is". After a few shows are done I go "Well, time to throw in the towel, there's nothing interesting".

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1 hour ago, Spaz said:

I never liked Brock Lesnar. Basically a steroid fueled wrestler who works "part time", yet gets away with shit because Vince McMahon is still head of WWE.

Can't really deny that part. A lot of my liking towards Lesnar probably still comes from his full time days 2002-2004 when he still gave a shit, he was a beast, throwing a fat big show around like it was nothing yet fast as fuck with a great moveset and even moves like the shooting star press he performed regularly in his development days as someone around the 300lbs mark. I mean what kind of a wrestling rookie becomes champion and flag bearer as quickly as Lesnar did without much prior professional wrestling experience or even knowledge of the sport? Just compare that guy with the rookies of the last few years, Brock Lesnar was having classics and matches like an amazing 60 minute ironman match against Kurt Angle 1.5 years into the main roster run, what are most of todays rookies doing 1.5 years into their run? Having feuds that go nowhere, stumbling around on the card, being off tv sometimes several weeks or even months at a time, switching face and heel status several times per year. Nowadays Lesnar can bring the big fight feeling and is a really great seller, can also be stiff as hell to create drama, but yeah he is a far cry from his glory days, probably says a lot about the product that I still rate him higher in terms of entertaining me than most full timers despite his matches more or less being the same for years now.

 

Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit were amazing, but considering that the sport basically killed them young their fates were a huge factor in wwe changing the way it did. Lack of competition, old dried up hag Linda McMahon trying to forcefully enter politics and therefore needing to keep the product cleaner, audiences and society changing, Vince Mcmahon becoming senile and switching from a few writers with long and thought out storylines to a ton of writers that regularly produce something resembling a mad womans breakfast played their part too I imagine.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Nighcisama said:

Can't really deny that part. A lot of my liking towards Lesnar probably still comes from his full time days 2002-2004 when he still gave a shit, he was a beast, throwing a fat big show around like it was nothing yet fast as fuck with a great moveset and even moves like the shooting star press he performed regularly in his development days as someone around the 300lbs mark. I mean what kind of a wrestling rookie becomes champion and flag bearer as quickly as Lesnar did without much prior professional wrestling experience or even knowledge of the sport? Just compare that guy with the rookies of the last few years, Brock Lesnar was having classics and matches like an amazing 60 minute ironman match against Kurt Angle 1.5 years into the main roster run, what are most of todays rookies doing 1.5 years into their run? Having feuds that go nowhere, stumbling around on the card, being off tv sometimes several weeks or even months at a time, switching face and heel status several times per year. Nowadays Lesnar can bring the big fight feeling and is a really great seller, can also be stiff as hell to create drama, but yeah he is a far cry from his glory days, probably says a lot about the product that I still rate him higher in terms of entertaining me than most full timers despite his matches more or less being the same for years now.

 

What unsettles me is the type of characters they play.

 

The old guys from the 1980s - 1990s you can rally behind and look up to as role models. Hulk Hogan, Ultimate Warrior, Andre the Giant, Macho Man, Jake 'the Snake' Roberts, Honky Tonk Man, they all defined the old WWF. My era was the Attitude Era, when The Rock, Triple H, Stone Cold Steve Austin, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Scotty Too Hotty, Dudley Brothers, Kane, Mankind, Undertaker and so many others were busting heads.

 

I don't like John Cena or Brock Lesnar but I will admit they had a great thing going over a decade ago, which is more than what I can say for some of today's acts. These new guys just don't have the consistency, I've seen newer WWE showings and this is a glaring detail I've noticed. Those old guys from the 80s and 90s would NEVER do something like be off television for long periods of time, or stumble around. They were consistent and they loved their work. They were also multitudes more likeable.

 

There is not a single rookie today in my mind who is a likable as Eddie Guerrero. I loved that guy back in the day, and it's sad he died young.

 

12 minutes ago, Nighcisama said:

Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit were amazing, but considering that the sport basically killed them young their fates were a huge factor in wwe changing the way it did. Lack of competition, old dried up hag Linda McMahon trying to forcefully enter politics and therefore needing to keep the product cleaner, audiences and society changing, Vince Mcmahon becoming senile and switching from a few writers with long and thought out storylines to a ton of writers that regularly produce something resembling a mad womans breakfast played their part too I imagine.

 

The switch from PG - 13 to PG is what hurt me.

 

The big difference between then and now is those old wrestlers and writers were willing to take risks. Shifting through a lot of writers to produce something is not good. Linda McMahon took the thought process of making the WWE cleaner. It's supposed to have blood gushing out of wrestlers heads. It's supposed to be edgy and hardcore. That's what I loved about the WWF.

 

What a turnaround to the sport I loved so much growing up.

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Is it concerning that my friend changed his middle name to The Ultimate Warrior because I said he should as a joke...  

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1 hour ago, lilpain97 said:

Is it concerning that my friend changed his middle name to The Ultimate Warrior because I said he should as a joke...  

 

Given how crazy The Ultimate Warrior (later just Warrior, and now just dead) became, there's probably some cause for concern.

Edited by starcrunch061
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Just a couple of days ago I watched the entirety of WWF Fully Loaded 2000 in one sitting with no problem but I struggle to just watch the odd clip on YouTube of current WWE due to the ever changing, shaky and jerking camera work.

 

😵

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Man, I completely forgot NXT debuted on Wednesday, I guess they're splitting time between USA and the network for the first couple few weeks?

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Wonder how much planning and bribing went into that AEW commercial during RAW :giggle:

 

Also, I'm not gonna lie, RAW has felt very "Vincey" for the past couple of weeks and that has a small part of me worried that they're building up for a Seth Rollins hat-trick.  Beast/Monster/Fiend slayer probably actually sounds good to the man with no clue and I'm terrified he's starting to think that people will want to see Seth "overcome" yet again.  We all know Vince has a comfort zone and I REALLY hope that the goodwill WWE's been building over the past month or so doesn't all go to shit by ignoring the obvious and once again trying to tell us what we want instead of just listening and accepting the hottest thing in the company is self made and not an "I'm a genius" Vince idea.

 

Fingers crossed.

Edited by skidmarkgn
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Legit question, do you think Stone Cold or the Rock could have gotten over today?

 

2019-09-25-stone-cold-2019.png

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19 hours ago, Dr_Mayus said:

Legit question, do you think Stone Cold or the Rock could have gotten over today?

The way most people are booked nowadays, with very little creative freedom and usually not being allowed to write their own promos or just improvise, and especially with the lower age rating, I have no doubt that Stone Cold would have never gotten over. Stone Colds entire thing during his rise to the top was the badass screw all the rules whoop everybodies ass persona, one guy against the world and not giving a single fuck about any consequences. Stone Cold would have been just neutered the same way former prize fighter and badass Kevin Owens is now, not helping a McMahon during a heel turn and being put together with a long standing top heel like stone Cold was during the Two Man Power Trip, but just cowering and allowing himself to get beaten up before eventually going the legal way.

 

The Rock is a different kind of animal though. He is probably the single most charismatic man to ever enter a wrestling ring, being extremely versatile on the mic he most likely could have even made some of the utter crap these so called writers come up today work well. Without his deep cutting promos on other wrestlers something would be missing, but I am sure he would have climbed to the top and then made the transition to hollywood eventually, no matter how atrocious the material of the writers. I mean he survived the Rocky Mavia days, and that was some legit bad stuff in its own right.

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5 hours ago, Nighcisama said:

The way most people are booked nowadays, with very little creative freedom and usually not being allowed to write their own promos or just improvise, and especially with the lower age rating, I have no doubt that Stone Cold would have never gotten over. Stone Colds entire thing during his rise to the top was the badass screw all the rules whoop everybodies ass persona, one guy against the world and not giving a single fuck about any consequences. Stone Cold would have been just neutered the same way former prize fighter and badass Kevin Owens is now, not helping a McMahon during a heel turn and being put together with a long standing top heel like stone Cold was during the Two Man Power Trip, but just cowering and allowing himself to get beaten up before eventually going the legal way.

 

The Rock is a different kind of animal though. He is probably the single most charismatic man to ever enter a wrestling ring, being extremely versatile on the mic he most likely could have even made some of the utter crap these so called writers come up today work well. Without his deep cutting promos on other wrestlers something would be missing, but I am sure he would have climbed to the top and then made the transition to hollywood eventually, no matter how atrocious the material of the writers. I mean he survived the Rocky Mavia days, and that was some legit bad stuff in its own right.

That is interesting and I agree with you.

 

Stone Cold was the bigger star (at the time at least ) than the Rock but Rock could adapt and survive anything and stone Cold admitted that he needed Vince to let him be him to get over (because the Ringmaster was simply not cutting it).

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