The WWE Discussion Thread

[sk_lp_him]

That contract signing was the most ridiculous and absurd segment I've ever seen. And Adam Pearce's response to Heyman was... ugh. Other than that Smackdown was pretty good show.

[Rozalia1]

On 10/06/2021 at 11:00 AM, Rozalia1 said:

I'd not be shocked if Wyatt gets fired soon honestly. Vince will blame Wyatt for Vince putting zombies, the killer doll, so forth on TV and thereby ruined RAW (further). Someone has to take the fall for Vince. 

 

Quoting myself as I called Wyatt getting cut. Yes, you heard me, Wyatt is gone too now. Of course yes, this could be that Wyatt is having issues and requested himself. We have no way of knowing the actual reason, but I certainly had the feeling he wasn't going to be around long at the point I made that post I quoted. 

 

 

The extra interesting thing for me in all this was in a rare Vince comment where he got asked about AEW he implied that WWE knows that these releases usually means the guys end up in AEW. He also said that perhaps "WWE should release some more talent for them", something like that. It could be he is cutting guys he considers worth nothing when it comes to moving the needle, to get them in AEW and cause a TNA effect where eventually the fans turn on the company for filling it up with Ex-WWE guys. Khan already has bloated his roster and the more WWE guys that are "can't miss" he signs, the more bloated it becomes.

 

Side note. Randy Orton claims another victim. Anyone who loses to Orton should be worried at this point, he beats a lot of guys who get cut afterwards. 

2 hours ago, sk_lp_him said:

That contract signing was the most ridiculous and absurd segment I've ever seen. And Adam Pearce's response to Heyman was... ugh. Other than that Smackdown was pretty good show.

 

Apparently Michaels/HHH/Benoit once had a segment like that way back... but yeah, if it has happened before or not... absolute nonsense.

[Glorious Fury]

7 minutes ago, Rozalia1 said:

Quoting myself as I called Wyatt getting cut. Yes, you heard me, Wyatt is gone too now. Of course yes, this could be that Wyatt is having issues and requested himself. We have no way of knowing the actual reason, but I certainly had the feeling he wasn't going to be around long at the point I made that post I quoted. 

 

Just seen this. Tbh, this should have happened years ago when his stock was at an all time low with the whole Eaters of Deletion crap. WWE destroyed the cult leader gimmick, which had real potential. Fiend was awful start to finish imo. Hopefully Bray is ok with his health and well-being though away from wrestling. 

[jackmadrox]

THIS MARKS THE END OF ME AND WWE. THEY CHASED AWAY DEAN AMBROSE. THEY CHASED AWAY STING. AND NOW BRAY WYATT. I HAVE NO ONE LEFT TO ROOT FOR ANYMORE. GOODBYE WWE. IF BRAY ENDS UP IN AEW, I WILL FULL ON BE AN AEW FAN.

[Rozalia1]

23 minutes ago, GloriousFury9414 said:

Just seen this. Tbh, this should have happened years ago when his stock was at an all time low with the whole Eaters of Deletion crap. WWE destroyed the cult leader gimmick, which had real potential. Fiend was awful start to finish imo. Hopefully Bray is ok with his health and well-being though away from wrestling. 

 

He was pictured like yesterday or the day before and appears to have slimmed down quite a bit which has been framed as "in the best shape of his life" which... not so sure I'd frame it that way as Bray being a bit... husky... was part of his look. 

 

I agree. The Cult Leader gimmick was when Bray was at his best. They overused him heavily as an ineffectual goof who'd say a whole lot of nothing and then lose his feuds which were all the same (attack face randomly, promos where he tells them "They're lying to you man", gets beat even with backup from two giants) which caused fans to turn on him. Bray had to reinvent himself because WWE reduced the worth of his gimmick to nothing. Ironically some comments here and there actually leads me to think that Wyatt is not actually a fan of the stuff that has done lately with him/Alexa so what fans have hated him for may well not be him.

 

I hope he gets well if it is an issue, and if he returns to WWE I wish him luck in reinventing himself again. My suggestion would be to break away from all this stuff that has defined him up to now as WWE will always mess it up. Have someone out Wyatt for what he really is. He ain't some guy from a swamp. Powers? All obviously tricks. Lights out trick for example? He has been paying a guy all these years in the back to help with that. Wyatt grew up as a privileged upper/middle class kid who plays cult leader and takes advantaged of not mentally sound people, people who are homeless, ex-soldiers (there was an implication at the start that Harper was an ex-solider from what I recall), all for his own sick amusement. 

 

6 minutes ago, jackmadrox said:

THIS MARKS THE END OF ME AND WWE. THEY CHASED AWAY DEAN AMBROSE. THEY CHASED AWAY STING. AND NOW BRAY WYATT. I HAVE NO ONE LEFT TO ROOT FOR ANYMORE. GOODBYE WWE. IF BRAY ENDS UP IN AEW, I WILL FULL ON BE AN AEW FAN.

 

It is unlikely Wyatt would end up in AEW, but not impossible. We'll see you in that thread then if he goes to AEW.

[Rozalia1]

Quote

Per Fightful

 

Bray Wyatt was released by WWE in what he was told was a "budget cut" on July 31.

 

Fightful was told that Johnny Ace made the call, and also sent a notification out to shocked WWE talent moments before the news broke online that Wyatt had been released.

The notion of a budget cut immediately surprised those within WWE, as Wyatt is known as being a great merch seller whenever he's actually active. One source indicated that Wyatt was a money maker for the company when that's the case.

 

In the hour following the release, we're told that Wyatt's name was actually brought up during another recent round of cuts. There have been multiple wrestlers that were discussed, but ended up being held on to. We've seen Observer's report that Wyatt was slated for a return in August, and we can confirm tentative creative plans were in place for him.

 

Fightful has been told that the creative team had been relayed that Wyatt was getting protective of his character after what were seen as poor creative decisions and ideas thrown his way, though many members of the team didn't speak to Wyatt directly and weren't sure if it was hearsay.

 

The budget cuts excuse is obvious nonsense. Wyatt after having his reinvention derailed by WWE began to get combative with management on what they wanted him to do and Vince/Nick Khan (Ace is just a fall guy, he ain't making these decisions) it appears will no longer accept dissent, no matter who it is. Part of the reason why would be a claim a lot of people make I think, and I'll not comment if it is correct or not, which is that no one is a star and no one effects the ratings and whatever. If no one is a star and has an effect then even top guys like Wyatt and Strowman can be cut without issue. Who cares, they can just slot some other guy in their spot. Who? Who cares. Nobody is a star anyway.

 

I'm not one of those people who starts shouting about unions and all that... but WWE's wrestlers really should be thinking about getting some solidarity here. WWE has always been horrible for their workers, but never to the extent that even top guys are disposable to them. Taking issue with booking, something done by top guys since forever and expected if you're going to make it as a top guy to start with is enough to be fired? Fans should play a part too, though with all the damage WWE has done on that end who knows if anyone can muster up the will to campaign. The target obviously would have to be Nick Khan, Vince's new top guy, who by all accounts has been driving all this. If shows begin to get a lot of "Fire Nick Khan" chants and the like then WWE might be forced to at least slow itself with these moves. 

 

Side note, perhaps Kevin Dunn in the future will get looked at with a kinder light. He has been hated for a long time for being Vince's top guy and while yes, he did talk against some talent at times, he apparently didn't like/want to push Becky (before "The Man" stuff) as he didn't like her having an accent... that is small time stuff. Nick Khan who has replaced him in that top spot has been a monster in the position.

[sk_lp_him]

Monday night 50/50 booking. Fans or no fans raw is still the same terrible skippable show. No likeable characters, boring storylines - just the way Vince likes it.

[AJ_Radio]

Vince is a hasbeen crotchety old man in his 70s. He needs to retire and give up the reins to someone else if he wants WWE to be successful and thrilling like it used to be.

 

Wrestlers get shafted more than anything else really. Sure, we can make the argument that the days of old were full of steroid abusers. Hulk Hogan, Ultimate Warrior, a good number of wrestlers in the Attitude Era, and even a number of guys in the early - mid 2000s. But there was Pay per View. There were good storylines. There were good promotions. There were wrestlers who were talented not only at delivering a great performance in the ring, but they also had good stage presence, good acting skills.

 

I gave up boxing and UFC because it's just watching two fighters box it out with each other.

 

WWE is just like the Simpsons now. Boring show, boring storyline, forgettable characters, the list goes on and on. Nobody cares about the Simpsons anymore. I can at least admit that a couple friends of mine that I've known for a very long time still care about WWE, but it is suffering from the COVID-19 pandemic. It needs new wrestlers who have energy and are entertaining, and new storylines that are actually worth a damn.

 

After a while we just have to shrug our shoulders and go "What's the point"? Most of everyone I know who once loved WWE left the product a long time ago, considering that they're all in their late 30s and have families, jobs, homes. These up and coming wrestlers nowadays don't appeal to me in the slightest. I just see them as a bunch of whiny kids. But I'm not the target audience anymore. The kids of today are WWE's audience.

 

Everything I loved about the WWE is long gone.

Edited August 4, 2021 by AJ_Radio

[locutus442]

Bobby Eaton, most well known for being one half of the tag-team Midnight Express, has passed away at the age of 62.

 

https://www.si.com/wrestling/2021/08/05/bobby-eaton-midnight-express-death

[djb5f]

1 hour ago, locutus442 said:

Bobby Eaton, most well known for being one half of the tag-team Midnight Express, has passed away at the age of 62.

 

https://www.si.com/wrestling/2021/08/05/bobby-eaton-midnight-express-death

RIP Beautiful Bobby.  A high flyer before his time.

 

Both versions of his Midnight Express (first with Dennis Condrey, and then with Stan Lane) were inducted into the Wrestling HOF.  They were so much fun with Jim Cornette and his tennis racket beating up the Rock ‘n’ Roll Express and feuding with the Road Warriors (RIP Hawk and Animal).

 

It amazes me Ric Flair is still alive.  I expect to hear the news any day.

 

EDIT - I also loved that their theme song was the theme from the Midnight Express movie (fantastic movie)

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by djb5f

[thepeaguy83]

I think Vince is releasing all these wrestlers to pave the way for him to ultimately sell his company to a corporate entity.

Food for thought. I haven't followed the product in 20 years.

[Infected Elite]

6 minutes ago, thepeaguy83 said:

I think Vince is releasing all these wrestlers to pave the way for him to ultimately sell his company to a corporate entity.

Food for thought. I haven't followed the product in 20 years.

That's exactly what he is doing. 

[Glorious Fury]

Looks like Adam Cole/Pete Dunne have contracts coming up very soon, so appears like more could be on the way.

[Rozalia1]

 

Word also is that NXT is going to get a makeover as it will be getting redone to go back to being developmental and not a "brand". As I thought, the official line was "everything went good", but Vince finally having his first look at NXT recently was shocked at what he saw. NXT has loads of older performers, loads of obvious no hopers, and just undersized people. 

Then you have Nick Khan who was also there who'll have reminded Vince that previously they upgraded everyone who was willing onto contracts that paid more and locked them down for ages at their new inflated pay, hence why Khan is now cutting a lot of people. 

 

WWE reportedly want to resign Adam Cole which comes off as one of the few things HHH can do like Samoa Joe, as Cole is unlikely to be liked by Vince. Cole would be pretty foolish to sign a normal deal. His counter offer should be whatever they offer him but with an added clause that WWE can't cut him whenever they feel like it, only if he agrees to be cut. The type of contract Lana spoke about wanting and people laughed at her over (not laughing now I imagine). I don't think those contracts have really been done much in wrestling... perhaps Hogan or someone had it in their contract. Something in my mind tells me Pillman got one from Vince as Vince was in the war with WCW and so was willing to do it, but even if he did, it is a rare type of contract in wrestling. 

[Glorious Fury]

18 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

Word also is that NXT is going to get a makeover as it will be getting redone to go back to being developmental and not a "brand". As I thought, the official line was "everything went good", but Vince finally having his first look at NXT recently was shocked at what he saw. NXT has loads of older performers, loads of obvious no hopers, and just undersized people. 

Then you have Nick Khan who was also there who'll have reminded Vince that previously they upgraded everyone who was willing onto contracts that paid more and locked them down for ages at their new inflated pay, hence why Khan is now cutting a lot of people. 

 

WWE reportedly want to resign Adam Cole which comes off as one of the few things HHH can do like Samoa Joe, as Cole is unlikely to be liked by Vince. Cole would be pretty foolish to sign a normal deal. His counter offer should be whatever they offer him but with an added clause that WWE can't cut him whenever they feel like it, only if he agrees to be cut. The type of contract Lana spoke about wanting and people laughed at her over (not laughing now I imagine). I don't think those contracts have really been done much in wrestling... perhaps Hogan or someone had it in their contract. Something in my mind tells me Pillman got one from Vince as Vince was in the war with WCW and so was willing to do it, but even if he did, it is a rare type of contract in wrestling. 

 

I've seen a fair bit of this talk too. I'd much rather NXT go back to it's 2014 days personally, rather than it's current product and focus on promotion to the main roster. Even though Vince is likely to damage them ?

 

Seems like Cole/McMahon have met and the meeting went well, but I think Cole would be smart to put some clause in as you said if he wants to stay. The Pillman contract situation was bizarre, WCW let him go to re-sign then he signed with WWE. Big rookie move from WCW at that time.

Edited August 8, 2021 by GloriousFury9414

[Rozalia1]

Some more news which will make some happy, others very angry.

 

Note that the above is from Meltzer who could be making up something he feels is plausible, it certainly seems like something going down in WWE right now.

 

To basically sum up, Vince and his guys from their visit to NXT have come to some conclusions. First off NXT is completely mismanaged as a developmental territory and HHH is likely fortunate he is family as others who tried this nonsense would have been found out and fired ages ago. Can you imagine say Cornette running in essence his own personal promotion however he liked rather than WWE's developmental back in the day? He'd have been fired and likely taken to court. In bullet point form:

 

1: It is full of Indy guys that WWE doesn't want. Indy for those unaware is more than just "someone who wrestles on the Indies". It is also a specific mindset. Look at say the Young Bucks who scream Indy. The "do every move I know every match" mentality. More to it obviously.

2: NXT is known as a good place to train... but is seen by Vince and company as actually a bad one. NXT retrains "Indy" guys to NXT's style which is more WWE but... not. So when NXT guys go to WWE itself they have to be retrained again to adapt to WWE. NXT is developmental, they need to train people to be ready for WWE, not specifically NXT.

3: It is full of undersized guys, "midgets" as reportedly they were described. NXT is supposed to create performers for Vince to use. Vince, with some exceptions, prefers bigger guys as he feels they can be bigger stars or are at least easier to get over. As such NXT currently runs counter to Vince's vision. Everyone knew this of course, but this is the first time Vince has actually looked at NXT so he is only now finding it out.

4: It has many older guys with NXT bringing many guys closer to 40 than 30, with 30 itself being bad. WWE wants guys below 30 to get trained as developmental normally lasts a couple of years anyway. What is the point of training say a 38 old for two years (at minimum) and telling management that at 40 they can put him on the main roster? NXT got something out of him sure, but the main roster gets screwed. May explain Priest's situation on the main roster where he was getting used and then disappeared and when he shows up is less important. Someone, perhaps Dunn, let slip the guy's actual age which made Vince put his hands to his head on how that could be the case. He gets a new guy and the new guy is already close to retirement.

5: Finally, as shown in the past, Vince and his guys will be on dogmatic on all the above. Exceptions are of course going to exist. 

 

All in all, what are people's views on the above? I have always felt that pre-Balor NXT, which I believe Dusty Rhodes was in large part responsible for (HHH came along taking credit later) was the best form of NXT and the above ain't quite that, but was certainly closer to it. Additionally I support the view that, with exceptions, you want bigger guys. People don't want to see "workrate" by small guys as defined in the modern definition (actual definition has nothing to do with executing a lot of moves well or whatever, but in how believable you make what you're doing), they want to see larger than life characters clashing or as Big E would say, Big men slapping meat. Additionally, let us say that you personally really enjoy small flippy guys or whatever... you still can't agree that NXT is functioning correctly. NXT is supposed to get guys for Vince and is producing guys he doesn't want. There is no getting around that.

 

6 hours ago, GloriousFury9414 said:

I've seen a fair bit of this talk too. I'd much rather NXT go back to it's 2014 days personally, rather than it's current product and focus on promotion to the main roster. Even though Vince is likely to damage them 

 

Seems like Cole/McMahon have met and the meeting went well, but I think Cole would be smart to put some clause in as you said if he wants to stay. The Pillman contract situation was bizarre, WCW let him go to re-sign then he signed with WWE. Big rookie move from WCW at that time.

 

I don't know. Out of NXT the guys Vince took to were guys not much liked in NXT. Baron Corbin, who is tall, and Vince has had all over his TV ever since unlike others who often disappear. Elias who isn't as tall yes (still 6 feet), but is jacked and actually has a gimmick that Vince likes, the heel music player, who like Baron is on every show if he ain't injured (others with all those injuries would have been sent packing by now). If pretty much the only people NXT sent Vince were tall/reasonably jacked guys then he may actually do well by them. 

 

Ah, good of you to mention that. If Pillman got that special contract than that might be why yeah. He made a mockery of WCW and humiliated them which he knew was going to get him blackballed by them. So perhaps he told something to Vince to the effect of, "If I'm going to do this to later go to you how do I know you won't just cut me after a couple of weeks?" and so he got that added in to assure him that Vince will keep him for however long the contract was. Vince doesn't actually do contracts these days, and WCW ain't around, but I wonder how able people actually were to get these things out of him really... Flair apparently also had something which allowed him to leave WWE during his first run if Vince no longer planned to use him in the main event.

[Baranov_925]

Does anybody knows why WWE released so many popular wrestlers since beginning of april 2020? Are they doing a cap space for Lesnar, Cena or Lynch?

[SelectiveGamer]

*eating popcorn while waiting to scream I TOLD YOU SO at all of you*

 

[CaptainChurrr]

I haven't watched WWE in a very long time and I tuned into the last episode of SmackDown it was good. Roman seems to be on top of his game now. 

[Rozalia1]

On 08/08/2021 at 7:29 PM, Baranov_925 said:

Does anybody knows why WWE released so many popular wrestlers since beginning of april 2020? Are they doing a cap space for Lesnar, Cena or Lynch?

 

Official reason is "budgetary reasons". Many wrestlers got their contracts upgraded due to AEW existing and now that Vince no longer sees them as any threat (ironically as their numbers have gone up, but I suppose he sees what many others do) he no longer wants to pay certain people inflated amounts. However, Bray Wyatt by all accounts was someone that due to his moving of merch and being a top star (that can reinvent themselves successfully if needed), actually gained WWE money... this is in doubt.

 

The Wyatt cutting within it had some implications that he was cut for getting combative with management on what they wanted him to do. So possibly Vince and company full on will no longer take dissent no matter who it is.

 

Another factor and one that ironically people on the internet have been saying for years and will now be angry about if Vince finally decided to agree with them is... that Vince doesn't see his roster as stars (obviously with exceptions, Roman for the obvious example). His takeaway from his trip to NXT can be summed up as "Who are these pack of losers? Where are the stars?". If guys aren't stars then they are disposable as them suddenly disappearing won't matter and someone else can be slotted into their spot without issue.

 

In short, we don't know, but if I had to say it is a combination of all 3 above. Some are cut for budgetary reasons, others for talking out of turn too much, others for Vince just looking at them and shaking his head. 

 

On 08/08/2021 at 11:03 PM, SelectiveGamer said:

*eating popcorn while waiting to scream I TOLD YOU SO at all of you*

 

 

Will have to be clear on what you told us.

 

On 08/08/2021 at 11:30 PM, CaptainChurrr said:

I haven't watched WWE in a very long time and I tuned into the last episode of SmackDown it was good. Roman seems to be on top of his game now. 

 

You made a good pick considering SmackDown is miles ahead of WWE's other shows in quality. Not to say it setting the world on fire, but even at its worst it is tolerable and always has the highlight of Reigns who yeah, is doing well. I think everyone, even the haters, always knew this but this run since he has turned heel has showcased what an elite talent he is. Top of the game right now. Now yes, I am aware that it helps that he is a rare one that actually gets protected in WWE. Last time he got pinned was... nearly 2 years ago by Baron Corbin during the infamous 5 month long Dog Food Saga. Plenty of guys who have gotten win after win have crashed and burned by not getting over though.

[sk_lp_him]

I thought they'd tone down the stupid doll but damn, the crazy old man is actually pushing it hard.

[Rozalia1]

2 hours ago, sk_lp_him said:

I thought they'd tone down the stupid doll but damn, the crazy old man is actually pushing it hard.

 

The Ultimate Deletion match is the root of all of this. Vince we know hated it as he had Cole bury it before it even aired. Then fan reaction wasn't negative. Since then they've had "Cinematic" matches such as the Boneyard match and Firefly Funhouse match which fans didn't reject. If he has heard anything of AEW he'll have heard of stuff like teleporting 1000 year old Matt Hardy or whatever he was. I think Vince may well now be pushing this stuff as he thinks that he is being hip to the times and this is actually what people want.

 

Why hasn't Vince taken this rejection of Bliss doing this as evidence this view is wrong? Simple. Bliss is one of his favourites. Roman is the obvious guy to point to as no matter how fans rejected him Vince wouldn't relent. However, Bliss as a woman is actually the successor of AJ Lee which is something most don't notice. Both primarily heel okay in the ring tiny women with solid mic skills who would have dominant runs and were written/allowed to obliterate faces by putting them down as pathetic losers and then beating them again and again to prove it. We never saw Vince's stubbornness with Lee as fans didn't reject her for whatever reason... but she got a good run after the CM Punk stuff, even won her last match pinning the champion which ain't normal, so... yeah. As such I think this is why no amount of rejection of Bliss at this point will get him to change his mind on this stuff. Vince is likely at the point that he thinks that any rejection of his favourites is just marks wanting to spite him, people now loving Roman likely doesn't help either with that perception. 

[Rozalia1]

It was odd the first time and even odder they are doing it again. You have a great talker in John Cena and his material is vague shoots? From a meta standpoint it is ironic/funny yes that Cena spent years having these vague shoots directed his way which would cause him to respond with something along the lines of "This is it really? How about something original?", and now at the end of his career he is the one doing the vague shoots and having a younger guy respond with "This is it really? How about something original?".

Roman's promo meanwhile was the wise adage of build up your opponent so when you win you have accomplished something. John Cena is the greatest of all time yes, but Roman is going to smash him because Roman is that good. 

 

As for who should win at Summerslam? Cena. I'm serious. I was like most others on the camp that Roman should retain but as time has gone on I'm convinced that Cena winning would in fact be the correct move. First of all from an attention standpoint Cena winning would bring more attention and unlike a Goldberg, Cena ain't that old and is also far more known at this point. Second, it'd finally get over this Flair business and give a WWE guy the record within WWE's records. HHH will talk against it as a massive Flair mark of course but as we know his stock has never been lower. Thirdly... who can actually beat Roman really? Finn Balor? Please. No one on the roster is built up anywhere close to being at Roman's level. 

 

I'd say putting the title on Cena and building to him passing the title on to the future, to someone like Big E, would be the correct move. It'd have the nice side effect of building the future Roman feud as Roman will of course be angry that Cena chose someone for such a lofty position and not him, the chosen one. May be a bit tricky to get it all within kayfabe but Roman and Big E do have shared history believe it or not. Way back Vince wanted Big E to be the guy until HHH convinced him to go with Roman. Both men would get put in 3 man groups. They were both the big guys of their group. Both had a stablemate win the big one before them. You could make the case that they are mirrors of each other. The difference of course would be that Big E is a good guy, he is humble, he championed Kofi and wanted him to be champion. Roman, okay yes, Rollings turned on him, but you can twist that into why did Rollings turn on Roman and then go on to get the gold? Because he knew who Roman is better than anyone and that if within the Shield Roman would never have allowed Rollings to win the big one before him. 

[SelectiveGamer]

I've decided to watch WWE SummerSlam tonight. I bought Peacock Premium just to do so. That doesn't mean I'm going to give my thoughts on the PPV in this thread though.

 

Why? Too many matches I want to see. I guess. Becky Lynch might return possibly as well

 

besides... who knows how many more WWE PPVs are left before DELETION

[buckallmighty]

Lesnar looks funny with a ponytail. No one tell him i said that tho.