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DreakonXIII

This modern phenomena of "watching games" then critiquing...

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Seems like more and more, I go onto forums or discussion boards (not necessarily this one but probably this one) and find people slamming games... only to find out they watched a playthrough on YouTube and decided they're now an expert.  Personally, if I were in charge of those boards, that'd probably be grounds for a banning... but that's just me.

 

Now I guess for a game like Heavy Rain or Until Dawn, it's very narrative heavy and gameplay light anyways so it's basically like watching a movie (not that it makes me feel any better about it but I get it at least)... for just about anything else, there's no excuse for it.  Like I've had people try and have a semi-intelligent discussion (as intelligent as online discussions about games can be) about P.T. only to tell me that they watched it.  Now, it doesn't help that P.T. is probably one of my favorite games (demos?) in recent memory, but to me that's sacrilege.  To have an opinion one way or the other, about a game that absolutely has to be played to be appreciated.  Yes you can tell how creepy and weird P.T. is by watching it, but it's not about seeing it.  It's about feeling it, that pain of having to press up or turn around when every instinct you have tells you not to.

 

Anyways, I think it's obvious how I feel about it.  How about you?

 

 

EDIT: Got rid of the poll, it made too many people sad.

Edited by DreakonXIII
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Some games like Ride to Hell: Retribution could be critiqued just by watching it being played but I think the only way to truly form a valid opinion is to play a game. 

 

Take something like American Trucking Simulator, or even Farming Simulator. These games get shit on all the time by people who have never played them because they either seem boring or because they aren't that exciting to watch, however I know plenty of people who have changed their minds completely when they actually play these games. 

 

 

Parker

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I think your poll is a little bias ;)

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Seems like more and more, I go onto forums or discussion boards (not necessarily this one but probably this one) and find people slamming games... only to find out they watched a playthrough on YouTube and decided they're now an expert.  Personally, if I were in charge of those boards, that'd probably be grounds for a banning... but that's just me.

 

Now I guess for a game like Heavy Rain or Until Dawn, it's very narrative heavy and gameplay light anyways so it's basically like watching a movie (not that it makes me feel any better about it but I get it at least)... for just about anything else, there's no excuse for it.  Like I've had people try and have a semi-intelligent discussion (as intelligent as online discussions about games can be) about P.T. only to tell me that they watched it.  Now, it doesn't help that P.T. is probably one of my favorite games (demos?) in recent memory, but to me that's sacrilege.  To have an opinion one way or the other, about a game that absolutely has to be played to be appreciated.  Yes you can tell how creepy and weird P.T. is by watching it, but it's not about seeing it.  It's about feeling it, that pain of having to press up or turn around when every instinct you have tells you not to.

 

Anyways, I think it's obvious how I feel about it.  How about you?

 

Are you just now coming to realize humans are generally judgmental bastards who have made up their mind before they ever try anything?

 

Bring on the justifiers:

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I would agree with you... but all I've done is READ your account of your feelings on the subject. I haven't used a mind-meld or some kind of psychic resonance to actually EXPERIENCE your feelings for myself, so how could I possibly form an opinion?

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Now, I think to a certain extent, watching gameplay to decide if a game looks or feels worth the money before taking the plunge makes perfect sense.

 

But in a world of Let's Plays, complete playthroughs, etc... I think "watching games" is slowly becoming accepted as a way of working them.  And I think that's just silly.  I understand it's free, it's economically beneficial for consumers, it's "easier", games nowadays aren't worth their weight in salt, etc, etc... but games are made to be played, not watched.  Even the interactive movies.

 

 

I would agree with you... but all I've done is READ your account of your feelings on the subject. I haven't used a mind-meld or some kind of psychic resonance to actually EXPERIENCE your feelings for myself, so how could I possibly form an opinion?

 

Text is meant to be read.  Games are meant to be played. ;)

 

Also, it's not a discussion on my feelings.  It's a topic about the subject matter.  Maybe there's a YouTube personality out there that you can leech an opinion off of. xD

 

 

I think your poll is a little bias ;)

 

Well that's why I added the third option. xD

Edited by DreakonXIII
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I think you can still have an opinion on a game without having played it. Only thing is, your opinion will be less informed and should count for less than an opinion from someone who has actually played it. 

 

The "validity" of an opinion is based on whether the conclusion follows reasonably from the information or experiences which inform it. Just because you've got less information or experience of the subject doesn't invalidate an opinion, it just makes it less informed.

 

If you can say of an opinion "I understand your opinion, but..." then that's the kind of opinion that is valid. If you have to say "you've just recited X number of factors in favour of this position, but conclude that the opposite position is the preferable one to hold", then that would indicate that the opinion was unreasonable/invalid.

 

Edit: emphasis and a correction.

Edited by StrickenBiged
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...and polls are meant to be neutral.

 

There's a whoooole thing going on below it.  Do you have an opinion on the matter, or do you just not like mine?

 

(And I'd argue my poll is neutral, there's a favorable option, a disfavorable one, and a neutral "I don't care or my option isn't available" one.  You just have to concede to my underlying bias when selecting one of the ones where you actually have to make a decision, if you really want to.)

Edited by DreakonXIII
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There's a whoooole thing going on below it.  Do you have an opinion on the matter, or do you just not like mine?

 

(And I'd argue my poll is neutral, there's a favorable option, a disfavorable one, and a neutral "I don't care or my option isn't available" one.  You just have to concede to my underlying bias when selecting one of the ones where you actually have to make a decision, if you really want to.)

 

Well my options are to "disgrace the art of gaming" or "severely berate/applaud them online without doing pesky things like supporting developers/the industry or actually trying the game ourselves first" or I can select an option so I don't feel left out.

 

I demand a recount! :awesome:

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There's a whoooole thing going on below it. Do you have an opinion on the matter, or do you just not like mine?

(And I'd argue my poll is neutral, there's a favorable option, a disfavorable one, and a neutral "I don't care" one. You just have to concede to my underlying bias when selecting, if you want to select one.)

I agree with your basic premiss.

I think that you have clearly come and created this poll after seeing one specific opinion somewhere, I assume in regards to PT (which is a demo for a game that is never coming out, and in which the only input he player makes is movement - yes, I did play it when it came out) and you feel that your opinion, having controlled said movement is more valid than someone who watched another person control the movement.

I suspect that the opinion you saw irked you, and this poll is the result. (It's not neutral btw - neutral polls are where you don't bias one choice as 'posative' and one as 'negative' - you make both options seem perfectly valid and read the results accordingly)

The reason I am so put off your approach are twofold:

1. I use video reviews and Quick Looks to decide which games to buy (Giant Bomb vids to be specific if anyone cares.) I am forming my personal opinion on a game by watching those videos, In so far as I will not buy a game unless it appeals after seeing them. Therefore I hhink watching video of games and forming opinions about the game are valid.

2. When I played PT, and a huge number of other games (recently Soma, Life is Strange, Ethen Carter, Everybodys gone to the Rapture etc etc), but, particularly horror games, my wife watches. During the game we talk about it. If it's interesting then often we keep talking about it. I've never felt that her opinion on those games is less informed than mine just because I was the one holding the controller. Her perspective might be different, which can be interesting, but the opinion is no less informed.

Edited by DrBloodmoney
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Well my options are to "disgrace the art of gaming" or "severely berate/applaud them online without doing pesky things like supporting developers/the industry or actually trying the game ourselves first" or I can select an option so I don't feel left out.

 

I demand a recount! :awesome:

 

You see, your options are that "people who watch games disappoint you" or "people who watch games are savvy consumers because they horde money and watch games for free without actually supporting the hobby they supposedly like" ... the third option is really just to avoid the people who come in saying that none of the other options apply to them. xD

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I think that you have clearly come and created this poll after seeing one specific opinion somewhere, I assume in regards to PT (which is a demo for a game that is never coming out, and in which the only input he player makes is movement - yes, I did play it when it came out) and you feel that your opinion, having controlled said movement is more valid than someone who watched another person control the movement.

I suspect that the opinion you saw irked you, and this poll is the result. (It's not neutral btw - neutral polls are where you don't bias one choice as 'posative' and one as 'negative' - you make both options seem perfectly valid and read the results accordingly)

The reason I am so put off your approach are twofold:

1. I use video reviews and Quick Looks to decide which games to buy (Giant Bomb vids to be specific if anyone cares.) I am forming my personal opinion on a game by watching those videos, In so far as I will not buy a game unless it appeals after seeing them. Therefore I hhink watching video of games and forming opinions about the game are valid.

2. When I played PT, and a huge number of other games (recently Soma, Life is Strange, Ethen Carter, Everybodys gone to the Rapture etc etc), but, particularly horror games, my wife watches. During the game we talk about it. If it's interesting then often we keep talking about it. I've never felt that her opinion on those games is less informed than mine just because I was the one holding the controller. Her perspective might be different, which can be interesting, but the opinion is no less informed.

 

You're posting here like...

 

a ) You're trying to analyze me and my reasons for posting this rather than offer your opinions (which you finally did thanks), which wasn't the point.

 

and

 

b ) That I'm unreasonable and would staunchly disagree with anyone who looks at things differently, like yourself.

 

Not sure why it took you so long to post your views on the matter, but again, thanks for actually doing it.  As someone who has spent a lot of time watching friends and family play games, I stand by the opinion that my views on a game tend to change drastically once I have a controller in my hands.  You can discuss a game just by watching it, and get a general idea, I'm not disputing that... but you're only forming an opinion on very surface level details when you do that.

 

And no, this wasn't derived from a discussion of someone unreasonably slamming P.T., they actually enjoyed it.  But I still felt their opinion was... uninformed.  Maybe some people are better at it than others.

 

This week on "First world gamer problems"....

 

Well yeah, but it's a gaming board for discussion and opinions exist, so... *shrug*

Edited by DreakonXIII
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You see, your options are that "people who watch games disappoint you" or "people who watch games are savvy consumers because they horde money and watch games for free without actually supporting the hobby they supposedly like" ... the third option is really just to avoid the people who come in saying that none of the other options apply to them. xD

 

and they should keep their big yaps shut or else...

 

horde? supposedly?

 

Maybe my opinion is that I have no opinion because as DBM said I haven't really experienced your opinion so I don't have an opinion to contribute but I still care and I don't feel left out because I'm contributing to the topic.

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Well yeah, but it's a gaming forum and opinions exist, so... *shrug*

 

Don't worry, DreakonXIII. I'm only trying to break up the upcoming tension in here. I'll write my opinions on your question later (I hope).

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and they should keep their big yaps shut or else...

 

horde? supposedly?

 

Maybe my opinion is that I have no opinion because as DBM said I haven't really experienced your opinion so I don't have an opinion to contribute but I still care and I don't feel left out because I'm contributing to the topic.

 

Then I guess the third option is for you?  Not sure what to tell you.  A discussion board is for discussing.  I feel like people are getting hung up on the wrong things, like the poll and the "mood" of my post.  I have a strong opinion on the subject, seems like you do too... but passive aggressive bits and bobs won't get us anywhere.  I've explained myself.

 

EDIT: And I meant hoard, not horde.  My bad.

Edited by DreakonXIII
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You can still have an opinion, but you're definitely missing out on a lot of the experience when you're not actually playing the game.

On a side-note, what's with making yet another new account?

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On a side-note, what's with making yet another new account?

 

Because PSN doesn't let us change names.  Or delete games from our trophy lists. ;)

Edited by DreakonXIII
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Didn't vote as I don't completely agree with any of the options, even #3 doesn't completely apply. Option #1, I somewhat agree with but only to the point where someone acts like an expert just from watching a few videos. I do feel that watching videos is a perfectly valid way to see if someone might like a game or not though. However, in some cases they still won't know with 100% certainty whether or not they'll actually like or dislike a game until they play it. A good example is when Borderlands came out I had no interest in it even after watching a few videos (the videos made it come across as purely an FPS a la COD instead of an FPS RPG like it is) however I ended up watching a few more later on and finally decided to give it a shot (pun not entirely intended). Upon doing so it's become one of my favorite franchises.

 

Option #2 is supposed to be the pro option but it feels more like 1.5 given the rather negative slant on it. The only pro part of it is the first sentence "I think it's great."

 

Option #3 somewhat applies as I do have a specific opinion on it but I also don't really care how someone forms their opinion about something so long as they don't try to force it on me or act like their opinion is fact.

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Option #3 somewhat applies as I do have a specific opinion on it but I also don't really care how someone forms their opinion about something so long as they don't try to force it on me or act like their opinion is fact.

 

I don't want to get into the poll too much because that's really just a side thing to add some incredibly biased levity to the topic... but Option 3 sounds perfect for you.

 

"I don't really care either way or the other options don't fit my very specific opinions on the matter"

 

You don't really care how someone forms their opinion, and the available options don't fit the specific opinion on it that you have.  Unless you mean the part about thanking me for not being left out... but that seems a little nit-picky. xD

Edited by DreakonXIII
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People judging games without playing them?

If I had a nickel...

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For certain aspects of a game like how the controls fare it's obvious that you can't form a perfectly valid opinion from just watching a video unless the person reviewing it says so, but then you can just quote what he/she said and not take any credit for it.

 

On the other hand, graphics, music, etc. can all still be perfectly criticized by watching a gameplay, as long as it is about a version of the game in your platform. When you decide to play the game after doing this you are refining your opinion about it,  not forming a valid one. An exception might be something like:

 

"The controls are sloppy" After you just watched a video. Then, I would agree that such lacks validity.

 

In conclusion, certain aspects of a video game can be given a valid opinion without ever trying it, other aspects require a test of it.

 

P.S: This isn't modern phenomenon at all. A lot of smart consumers watch gameplays and read some spoiler-free reviews before plunging in a new genre.

 

Your poll is biased btw. In the first option you're going over the top saying it is a disgrace to the art of gaming when in fact any kind of art can be given an opinion into based on its impressions.

 

It is insulting in the following words, I'm free to expose my opinion as long as I mind my words and know how to use them when criticizing.

 

You're being sarcastic on the following option too.

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P.S: This isn't modern phenomenon at all. A lot of smart consumers watch gameplays and read some spoiler-free reviews before plunging in a new genre.

 

You're naive if you think watching full playthroughs of games for any number of reasons, including getting out of paying for a game and perhaps to gain some kind of leverage in badmouthing/praising a game online, isn't something that has started happening in the last few years.  It's honestly worse than piracy IMO, at least pirates are appreciating the game the way it was meant to be, despite still getting a free ride.

 

Watching brief gameplay videos and reading/watching reviews to educate yourself before purchasing is a completely different story.

Edited by DreakonXIII
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You're naive if you think watching full playthroughs of games for any number of reasons, including getting out of paying for a game and perhaps to gain some kind of leverage in badmouthing/praising a game online, isn't something that has started happening in the last few years.  It's honestly worse than piracy IMO, at least pirates are appreciating the game the way it was meant to be, despite still getting a free ride.

 

Watching brief gameplay videos and reading/watching reviews to educate yourself before purchasing is a completely different story.

 

Your OP is confusing about that. You say people watched playthroughs but never state they did it from start to finish, which made me believe it was the same as someone who watches a gameplay to a certain extent.

 

Now I see your point with your comment here...And I only think that people who do that must really have nothing else to do with their lifes xD I mean, you mean watching a full videogame play from start to finish!? Who the heck would have the time to do that!

 

Even so, I still maintain what I said before (regarding criticism), even with a stupid method.

Edited by Lord_of_Ra
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