Dark Souls III is an easy game?

[Maxximum]

Well, the series have a lot of fans and players, so I think this one should be a walk in the park, too.

[Stardroid]

On Furi by the way (great game), the easiest difficulty does not unlock any trophies at all. You have to play at normal (which is really a hard mode) and to get the platinum, you have to S rank Furier mode (very hard). At the end of the credits when beating Furier mode, the dev team thanks you for playing the way you're supposed to and thanks the player for putting in the time to get good at the game.
Dark Souls should do the same for co op trophies. That's why I always play the souls games on PC. I can't be arsed getting trophies that are devalued so much, you don't know if people did it through hard work or cheap victories in co op play. For me, trophies hold some merrit. I either platinum the game because I really like the game or because it has a fair challenge that is reflected in the percentage.

Edited July 16, 2016 by Starlove-

[LittleLamb121]

On Furi by the way (great game), the easiest difficulty does not unlock any trophies at all. You have to play at normal (which is really a hard mode) and to get the platinum, you have to S rank Furier mode (very hard). At the end of the credits when beating Furier mode, the dev team thanks you for playing the way you're supposed to and thanks the player for putting in the time to get good at the game.

Dark Souls should do the same for co op trophies. That's why I always play the souls games on PC. I can't be arsed getting trophies that are devalued so much, you don't know if people did it through hard work or cheap victories in co op play. For me, trophies hold some merrit. I either platinum the game because I really like the game or because it has a fair challenge that is reflected in the percentage.

I'm having a hard time understanding why you think the trophies are devalued? Using co-op is still a perfectly legitimate way to beat the game, but if you don't want to then you don't have to. There's nothing wrong with those who do want to earn it that way, and it's not any better or worse than someone who would rather go at it alone (and same vice versa).

[rdrgues]

I'm having a hard time understanding why you think the trophies are devalued? Using co-op is still a perfectly legitimate way to beat the game, but if you don't want to then you don't have to. There's nothing wrong with those who do want to earn it that way, and it's not any better or worse than someone who would rather go at it alone (and same vice versa).

 

It is not a legitimate way to beat the game. Bosses are simply not designed to fight multiple players. when you gang up the boss can only target one player while the others stab them from behind; completely ognoring boss mechanics. It is an exploit that should be fixed. Did you not read my post or are you just ignoring my arguments and the video I posted?

[Daniel_Shadow170]

It is not a legitimate way to beat the game. Bosses are simply not designed to fight multiple players. when you gang up the boss can only target one player while the others stab them from behind; completely ognoring boss mechanics. It is an exploit that should be fixed. Did you not read my post or are you just ignoring my arguments and the video I posted?

If it wasn't legitimate it wouldn't be in the game. What you want is special snowflake status the devs have said you are wrong.

[LittleLamb121]

It is not a legitimate way to beat the game. Bosses are simply not designed to fight multiple players. when you gang up the boss can only target one player while the others stab them from behind; completely ognoring boss mechanics. It is an exploit that should be fixed. Did you not read my post or are you just ignoring my arguments and the video I posted?

It is very much a legitimate way to beat the game. They also give plenty of the bosses AOE attacks as a counter balance to this - and quite frankly, even if they didn't it would still be perfectly acceptable because the developers put it there.

 

While I get what you're saying, my only point is that everyone is allowed to play however they want, and no one is better than someone else because of how they want to play.

[rdrgues]

It is very much a legitimate way to beat the game. They also give plenty of the bosses AOE attacks as a counter balance to this - and quite frankly, even if they didn't it would still be perfectly acceptable because the developers put it there.

 

While I get what you're saying, my only point is that everyone is allowed to play however they want, and no one is better than someone else because of how they want to play.

 

The only issue I have is that the trophies don't distinguish co-op from offline. If co-op didn't give trophies I would not be involved in this argument. I dont realy care how people play but I don't want to come to this website and see over 70% of the players have "killed" Sullivahn. Thats pretty depresing.

[QuentinCle95]

I completely agree with OP and Starlove. Everyone is allowed to play the game however they want, but beating a boss co-op is less of an achievement than doing it solo, and thus less worthy of an actual achievement (/trophy). 

There's nothing wrong with locking trophies behind difficulty. How is this any different than when a game requires a player to finish Hardcore Mode for plat?

Although, @Starlove-, I think a big reason why you got some negative reactions on your forum post was because you kept talking down to people when you felt they didn't say what you wanted to hear. I was on your side opinion-wise and I still felt like knocking you off your high horse

[LittleLamb121]

The only issue I have is that the trophies don't distinguish co-op from offline. If co-op didn't give trophies I would not be involved in this argument. I dont realy care how people play but I don't want to come to this website and see over 70% of the players have "killed" Sullivahn. Thats pretty depresing.

I completely agree with OP and Starlove. Everyone is allowed to play the game however they want, but beating a boss co-op is less of an achievement than doing it solo, and thus less worthy of an actual achievement (/trophy). 

There's nothing wrong with locking trophies behind difficulty. How is this any different than when a game requires a player to finish Hardcore Mode for plat?

Although, @Starlove-, I think a big reason why you got some negative reactions on your forum post was because you kept talking down to people when you felt they didn't say what you wanted to hear. I was on your side opinion-wise and I still felt like knocking you off your high horse

Though I still don't really agree, to be honest with you, I think I get what you guys mean. I tend to not like it so much when people have others drop all the items for them and pop the trophies that way. But it is still a legitimate way to play, so...

Although, the key difference between this and a hardcore mode trophy is that it specifies that you HAVE to do it on hardcore mode. However, that makes me wonder what would happen if they did make a trophy like "beat all bosses solo" or something similar, in addition to the individual boss trophies?   I bet the completion rate would plummet significantly.

[Auto-Tomato]

I too am outraged that gamers earn trophies using co-op, it's unthinkable.   To bring in a friend or partner and have fun is simply not how games should be played, I simply cannot defend these heretics.  How dare these inferior skilled swamp-trash interfere with MY PERSONAL STATS.   The sheer audacity of gamers that do not live and abide by my own rules, to earn accolades they are astoundingly undeserving of, on the backs of others, carried by friends...it's not The Way of Gaming, it's not my way, and this is ALL ABOUT ME!

 

From this day forth, any gamer found to be having fun, playing with friends, and earning trophies, will be, and I assure you all...HUNTED.  CAPTURED.  TESTED.   These are my rules and I will not stand for anything less than URs on my profile.   The shock of seeing a rarity value below my standards, ON MY OWN PROFILE, is frankly unacceptable, it's blasphemous, and punishment will be severe.   Gamers that fail my solo test will be made to walk that walk, The Way of Gaming walk:

 

SHGAME.     SHGAME.     SHGAME. 

 

 

Don't think you will hide, what everyone else does is MY BUSINESS, because this is my story...ME, MYSELF, MY PROFILE and I.   We self-righteous few, we warriors of UR, that solo Souls bosses, we divine gamers, untouched by the horror of co-op, never having exploited a glitch, no boosters of MP trophies...we, the superior gamer species have had enough, the manufacture of our profiles is being assaulted and we must stand together to wipe this undeserving scourge from our common, uncommon and sometimes rare trophy values.   WITH ME MY BROTHERS IN SELF-INTEREST, RISE WARRIORS OF ULTRA RARITY....CHAAAAAAAAAAARRRGGE.

 

I'm so angry about all of this I could've written more sentences...and I have a slightly raise eyebrow.

Edited July 17, 2016 by RedMustang72

[Stardroid]

I too am outraged that gamers earn trophies using co-op, it's unthinkable.   To bring in a friend or partner and have fun is simply not how games should be played, I simply cannot defend these heretics.  How dare these inferior skilled swamp-trash interfere with MY PERSONAL STATS.   The sheer audacity of gamers that do not live and abide by my own rules, to earn accolades they are astoundingly undeserving of, on the backs of others, carried by friends...it's not The Way of Gaming, it's not my way, and this is ALL ABOUT ME!

 

From this day forth, any gamer found to be having fun, playing with friends, and earning trophies, will be, and I assure you all...HUNTED.  CAPTURED.  TESTED.   These are my rules and I will not stand for anything less than URs on my profile.   The shock of seeing a rarity value below my standards, ON MY OWN PROFILE, is frankly unacceptable, it's blasphemous, and punishment will be severe.   Gamers that fail my solo test will be made to walk that walk, The Way of Gaming walk:

 

SHGAME.     SHGAME.     SHGAME. 

 

 

Don't think you will hide, what everyone else does is MY BUSINESS, because this is my story...ME, MYSELF, MY PROFILE and I.   We self-righteous few, we warriors of UR, that solo Souls bosses, we divine gamers, untouched by the horror of co-op, never having exploited a glitch, no boosters of MP trophies...we, the superior gamer species have had enough, the manufacture of our profiles is being assaulted and we must stand together to wipe this undeserving scourge from our common, uncommon and sometimes rare trophy values.   WITH ME MY BROTHERS IN SELF-INTEREST, RISE WARRIORS OF ULTRA RARITY....CHAAAAAAAAAAARRRGGE.

 

I'm so angry about all of this I could've written more sentences...and I have a slightly raise eyebrow.

 

You are only arguing with yourself here.  Nobody here devalues or belittles gamers wanting to experience Dark Souls game together as friends. Nobody here is saying they should not be allowed. Nobody is talking about their lack of skill, nobody is honing over them. You yourself create this narrative because you identify with it. All that is being said here is that doing trophies co op does devaluate them (in this game particulary). Getting them co op is legit, I agree. That's why I don't bother with DS trophies because they can be obtained in a legit way that is cheap and doesn't really say anything. People can say DS are hard games, they are not hard. They are made even easier through co op. The DS community is not one known for it's hardcore approach and overload in skill. It's known as a multiplayer co op kinda of community more than anything else.

 

So when a game that is supposed to be hard has like 20% clear rating, you can be damn sure at least 10% of that, if not more, used co op in one way or another. And - again - playing co op is perfectly fine. But you should not get trophies for it in my opinion. It's dirty cheap to beat bosses co op and people have the audacity to ask how co op devaluated trophies. It wouldn't devaluate trophies in this game if Co op didn't make things so much easier in this game. Make the bosses faster in co op, make them hit way harder, give them even more hp. At least do something that evens it out.

 

It's a shame people like you must always sell this narrative that people like me and OP must somewhow be some hardcore gamers who think they are entitled to things. While in reality, we are simply giving arguments as to why co op trophies devalue trophies in DS. This is after all a website dedicated to trophy hunting and they do come with their reasons as to why people trophy hunt. The people who platinum Meat Boy aren't doing it because it's fun, it's hell if you're going for platinum. They're doing it for the merrit. So a game like DS, where skill is supposedly held in such high regard, arguing for a more difficult or rigorous way to be able to obtain trophies does not seem unreasonable to me.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Starlove-

[Griffon234]

I too am outraged that gamers earn trophies using co-op, it's unthinkable.   To bring in a friend or partner and have fun is simply not how games should be played, I simply cannot defend these heretics.  How dare these inferior skilled swamp-trash interfere with MY PERSONAL STATS.   The sheer audacity of gamers that do not live and abide by my own rules, to earn accolades they are astoundingly undeserving of, on the backs of others, carried by friends...it's not The Way of Gaming, it's not my way, and this is ALL ABOUT ME!

 

From this day forth, any gamer found to be having fun, playing with friends, and earning trophies, will be, and I assure you all...HUNTED.  CAPTURED.  TESTED.   These are my rules and I will not stand for anything less than URs on my profile.   The shock of seeing a rarity value below my standards, ON MY OWN PROFILE, is frankly unacceptable, it's blasphemous, and punishment will be severe.   Gamers that fail my solo test will be made to walk that walk, The Way of Gaming walk:

 

SHGAME.     SHGAME.     SHGAME. 

 

 

Don't think you will hide, what everyone else does is MY BUSINESS, because this is my story...ME, MYSELF, MY PROFILE and I.   We self-righteous few, we warriors of UR, that solo Souls bosses, we divine gamers, untouched by the horror of co-op, never having exploited a glitch, no boosters of MP trophies...we, the superior gamer species have had enough, the manufacture of our profiles is being assaulted and we must stand together to wipe this undeserving scourge from our common, uncommon and sometimes rare trophy values.   WITH ME MY BROTHERS IN SELF-INTEREST, RISE WARRIORS OF ULTRA RARITY....CHAAAAAAAAAAARRRGGE.

 

I'm so angry about all of this I could've written more sentences...and I have a slightly raise eyebrow.

 

I read the first 10 or so words, and almost dropped reading the whole thing, glad I didn't lmao.

 

 

So when a game that is supposed to be hard has like 20% clear rating, you can be damn sure at least 10% of that, if not more, used co op in one way or another. And - again - playing co op is perfectly fine. But you should not get trophies for it in my opinion. It's dirty cheap to beat bosses co op and people have the audacity to ask how co op devaluated trophies. It wouldn't devaluate trophies in this game if Co op didn't make things so much easier in this game. Make the bosses faster in co op, *make them hit way harder, give them even more hp.* At least do something that evens it out.

 

I thought they do get more HP and hit harder? At least that's how I saw it in DS2. Rotten was taking much less damage and hitting a lot harder when I entered the fog door with Lucatiel, than without. Same with the Giant Lord dude with Benhart. 

[Auto-Tomato]

You are only arguing with yourself here.  Nobody here devalues or belittles gamers wanting to experience Dark Souls game together as friends. Nobody here is saying they should not be allowed. Nobody is talking about their lack of skill, nobody is honing over them. You yourself create this narrative because you identify with it. All that is being said here is that doing trophies co op does devaluate them (in this game particulary). Getting them co op is legit, I agree. That's why I don't bother with DS trophies because they can be obtained in a legit way that is cheap and doesn't really say anything. People can say DS are hard games, they are not hard. They are made even easier through co op. The DS community is not one known for it's hardcore approach and overload in skill. It's known as a multiplayer co op kinda of community more than anything else.

 

So when a game that is supposed to be hard has like 20% clear rating, you can be damn sure at least 10% of that, if not more, used co op in one way or another. And - again - playing co op is perfectly fine. But you should not get trophies for it in my opinion. It's dirty cheap to beat bosses co op and people have the audacity to ask how co op devaluated trophies. It wouldn't devaluate trophies in this game if Co op didn't make things so much easier in this game. Make the bosses faster in co op, make them hit way harder, give them even more hp. At least do something that evens it out.

 

It's a shame people like you must always sell this narrative that people like me and OP must somewhow be some hardcore gamers who think they are entitled to things. While in reality, we are simply giving arguments as to why co op trophies devalue trophies in DS. This is after all a website dedicated to trophy hunting and they do come with their reasons as to why people trophy hunt. The people who platinum Meat Boy aren't doing it because it's fun, it's hell if you're going for platinum. They're doing it for the merrit. So a game like DS, where skill is supposedly held in such high regard, arguing for a more difficult or rigorous way to be able to obtain trophies does not seem unreasonable to me.

Listen to this gamer...he speaks...    Btw when do I get paid for what I'm selling?   Is it per word...like...and can I be paid in trophies?  I'm kinda cheap that way tbh, URs of course, nothing less for my profile, I mean er, myself, me...I.   I do feel your pain, the scum will be SHGAMED, mark my words, keep fighting the good fight and one day, one day, we will bask in our own self-righteous glory, one day DS will have an UR Plat, one day...proselytize my brother, stand tall atop your mountain of UR trophies and lift the divine and cast down the undeserving, amass your fellow warriors of UR and lay waste to all that trespass on our pristine profiles.  The injustice, the horror of it all...   I'm feeling a bit hungry now...

 

I read the first 10 or so words, and almost dropped reading the whole thing, glad I didn't lmao.

 

Always nice to be appreciated.  

Edited July 17, 2016 by RedMustang72

[Stardroid]

I read the first 10 or so words, and almost dropped reading the whole thing, glad I didn't lmao.

 

 

 

I thought they do get more HP and hit harder? At least that's how I saw it in DS2. Rotten was taking much less damage and hitting a lot harder when I entered the fog door with Lucatiel, than without. Same with the Giant Lord dude with Benhart. 

 

They do, but they should have more hp and more hard hitting moves. Because - as said before - doing bosses co op right now is just way too easy and completely devalues the trophies inherently.

 

Listen to this gamer...he speaks...    Btw when do I get paid for what I'm selling?   Is it per word...like...and can I be paid in trophies?  I'm kinda cheap that way tbh, URs of course, nothing less for my profile, I mean er, myself, me...I.   I do feel your pain, the scum will be SHGAMED, mark my words, keep fighting the good fight and one day, one day, we will bask in our own self-righteous glory, one day DS will have an UR Plat, one day...proselytize my brother, stand tall atop your mountain of UR trophies and lift the divine and cast down the undeserving, amass your fellow warriors of UR and lay waste to all that trespass on our pristine profiles.  The injustice, the horror of it all...   I'm feeling a bit hungry now...

 

Always nice to be appreciated.  

 

I have less trophies per day than you do. I am not interested in honing over anyone, I am not interested in calling other gamers crap, I am not interested in being superior to anyone else with regards to trophies. However, one can objectively make the claim that doing DS trophies co op, greatly cheapens the difficulty and therefore cheapens the trophy in itself. You are clearly not in here for arguing, maybe to grab some likes, maybe to just be sarcastic and witty. I get you, when I was younger, I was like that too. But it's not productive, it adds nothing. Luckily, some do see some comedy value in your posts. Me, however, who enacts the labour of explaining to you why I think X and Y am less entertained by your dodging of the argument in favour of petty sarcasm.

[Auto-Tomato]

 

 

 

I have less trophies per day than you do. I am not interested in honing over anyone, I am not interested in calling other gamers crap, I am not interested in being superior to anyone else with regards to trophies. However, one can objectively make the claim that doing DS trophies co op, greatly cheapens the difficulty and therefore cheapens the trophy in itself. You are clearly not in here for arguing, maybe to grab some likes, maybe to just be sarcastic and witty. I get you, when I was younger, I was like that too. But it's not productive, it adds nothing. Luckily, some do see some comedy value in your posts. Me, however, who enacts the labour of explaining to you why I think X and Y am less entertained by your dodging of the argument in favour of petty sarcasm.

For the love of UR.   I didn't quote you, reference you, name you specifically...so why so defensive?

 

So, let me get this right, co-op makes games easier (generally)...omg I need to sit down.  'Red you are sitting down.'   Sorry, mind was blown there, who'd have thought.   DS bosses are easier in co-op, right I really need to sit down here.  'Red.'  Oh yeah, I'm in a fractured state here, apologies, this is all news to me, all these years gaming and I thought co-op was something to do with making an omelette.    

 

Trophies are undervalued as a consequence...yeeeeaaaahhh ok...so what?   Shouldn't the real issue be From making a better game, with suitable co-op boss mechanics, rather than about trophy rarity values?  Co-op doesn't affect you right?   You can easily play the game solo, there's no need to get help, so what's the issue with others getting help?   Oh, I see, trophy values on profiles, because this thread is about the trophies right, not about From, not about what could be done to improve the game, but about others 'undeserving' of trophies and how some aren't happy with the respective trophy values affecting their profiles.

 

The only people undeserving of trophies are those that hack, end of.   Gamers are fairly resourceful at finding cheap ways to get trophies in, well, just about any game.   Ever exploited a glitch?   SHGAME on you.   Ever boosted an MP trophy?  SHGAME.    Ever used a guide?  SHGAME   Ever backed up a save?  SHGAME....   To say gamers that play co-op are undeserving of a trophy is ludicrous, the game is built for co-op/competitive play, whether the bosses are appropriately coded to deal with it or not...that's From, not fellow gamers problem.   Have a gripe about it, sure, I've griped about ridiculous tracking, infinite stamina and the dreaded grind, but I don't slight others 'achievements' nor embroil myself in sympathy for my own stats.   

 

The fact that we both seemingly agree that Souls games are in fact not hard...makes all this griping about co-op even worse, and worse still, the trophy sets are some of the easiest, if a little time consuming, around...always have been.   Ok tendencies (related) in Demon's was a bit of a pain, but still, hardly egg cracking.    SHGAME, we could have made a nice omelette there too.

 

I'll ignore the digs, obviously mocking the whole 'my profile, stats and I' thread masquerading as a DS3 thread isn't for you, because as we all know this is dead serious, profiles and stats are at risk here, and imposters are running around with trophies they don't deserve...gimme strength UR, gimme strength...

 

Yes, co-op cheapens boss fights, no Souls games aren't hard...something about annoyed other gamers have trophies and being precious about stats...sorry, lost the will to live there, where were we?

[Stardroid]

For the love of UR.   I didn't quote you, reference you, name you specifically...so why so defensive?

 

So, let me get this right, co-op makes games easier (generally)...omg I need to sit down.  'Red you are sitting down.'   Sorry, mind was blown there, who'd have thought.   DS bosses are easier in co-op, right I really need to sit down here.  'Red.'  Oh yeah, I'm in a fractured state here, apologies, this is all news to me, all these years gaming and I thought co-op was something to do with making an omelette.  

 

Trophies are undervalued as a consequence...yeeeeaaaahhh ok...so what?   Shouldn't the real issue be From making a better game, with suitable co-op boss mechanics, rather than about trophy rarity values?  Co-op doesn't affect you right?   You can easily play the game solo, there's no need to get help, so what's the issue with others getting help?   Oh, I see, trophy values on profiles, because this thread is about the trophies right, not about From, not about what could be done to improve the game, but about others 'undeserving' of trophies and how some aren't happy with the respective trophy values affecting their profiles.

 

The only people undeserving of trophies are those that hack, end of.   Gamers are fairly resourceful at finding cheap ways to get trophies in, well, just about any game.   Ever exploited a glitch?   SHGAME on you.   Ever boosted an MP trophy?  SHGAME.    Ever used a guide?  SHGAME   Ever backed up a save?  SHGAME....   To say gamers that play co-op are undeserving of a trophy is ludicrous, the game is built for co-op/competitive play, whether the bosses are appropriately coded to deal with it or not...that's From, not fellow gamers problem.   Have a gripe about it, sure, I've griped about ridiculous tracking, infinite stamina and the dreaded grind, but I don't slight others 'achievements' nor embroil myself in sympathy for my own stats.   

 

The fact that we both seemingly agree that Souls games are in fact not hard...makes all this griping about co-op even worse, and worse still, the trophy sets are some of the easiest, if a little time consuming, around...always have been.   Ok tendencies (related) in Demon's was a bit of a pain, but still, hardly egg cracking.    SHGAME, we could have made a nice omelette there too.

 

I'll ignore the digs, obviously mocking the whole 'my profile, stats and I' thread masquerading as a DS3 thread isn't for you, because as we all know this is dead serious, profiles and stats are at risk here, and imposters are running around with trophies they don't deserve...gimme strength UR, gimme strength...

 

Yes, co-op cheapens boss fights, no Souls games aren't hard...something about annoyed other gamers have trophies and being precious about stats...sorry, lost the will to live there, where were we?

 

I am giving you perfectly reasonable answers. You must portray me as defensive in order to play the minds of the people who read your comments to gain the upper hand. It's empty rethoric that perfectly blends in with your over the top petty sarcasm.

The argument that is being made is not that co op makes games easier. This is a generally known fact, yet you must stress this (while nobody made this argument) so you are gaining the "upper hand" by arguing with air. The argument that is being made is:

 

- Co op makes content much easier

- Dark Souls is known to be a hard game

- Co op cheapens the hard aspect of the game

- Trophies should reflect the true difficulty

- Trophies can be obtained through co up

- Trophies to not reflect the true difficuly

- Therefore in order to truly reflect the difficulty of a souls games, trophy wise, co op should disable trophies.

 

____________________________________________________________________

 

Of course, one could argue that the "true difficulty" is subjective. I agree, but if you're going to incorporate the idea that Souls games are hard (which they really aren't), then you either get rid of the idea that Souls games are hard, or you restore value to the difficulty ascribes to the trophies.

The game can still be built around co op play. You just don't get trophies for it. I already said the game was more co op based, more than anything else. But that does not mean it should unlock certain rewards?

You name certain things that might define boundaries as to - again - what defines "undeserving". For me, it pretty much is:

 

- Do it solo unless it's required you co op

- Don't hack

 

That's pretty much it.

 

I think you serverely overestimate the seriousness of this all. I already have my peace with DS games not being overly difficult and becoming piss easy through co op. This is reflected in the fact that I don't bother getting trophies by them (while still playing them solo on PC). However, from an argumentative point of view, the OP is absolutely correct. The values in rarity do not reflect an equal merit of all the people. Which I agree with as there are people who have to put in a lot more work doing it solo.

They have to learn mechanics, they don't have that support, they don't have somemone who can take the attention away from them, they don't have a lot of things. So for those people to share the same rarity with the people who didn't even hit it once and let other people just kill it for them. I understand why it would upset them.

 

Thanks.

 

Trophies are indeed undervalued and that is what is being discussed here. To discuss other matters is besides the question / argument. If you make better co op adjustments, then that has an impact on the game and trophies and thus what some people in here are advocating for. Co Op directly impacts the rariry of trophies and does as someone who likes a challange and who likes to see that reflected in the rarity of trophies, it does effect me. I won't lose sleep over it. Instead, I just don't bother getting trophies for that game.

There is no issue with other people getting help (as I told you before, but apparently, reading is difficult). I and the OP already made the claim that inherently, there is nothing wrong with co op play and getting help in a videogame. This thread is indeed not about Dark Souls as a game, but about the trophies surrounding it and the requirements to get them. I know, discussing trophies on a website dedicated to trophies is a shocking thing. I'm still trying to get over that.

 

Well, I guess we disagree on what defines to boundaries to what consitutes people as "undeserving" of trophies. But I go back to what I said before. If you give people co op trophies you:

- Get rid of the idea that the game is difficult

- Adjust co op in a way that co op play is equally difficult and this equal in merrit.

You see, it is unfair that people get the same reward for doing half the work. Not even half. It's a complete joke in co op mode.

[Auto-Tomato]

I am giving you perfectly reasonable answers. You must portray me as defensive in order to play the minds of the people who read your comments to gain the upper hand. It's empty rethoric that perfectly blends in with your over the top petty sarcasm.

The argument that is being made is not that co op makes games easier. This is a generally known fact, yet you must stress this (while nobody made this argument) so you are gaining the "upper hand" by arguing with air. The argument that is being made is:

 

- Co op makes content much easier

- Dark Souls is known to be a hard game

- Co op cheapens the hard aspect of the game

- Trophies should reflect the true difficulty

- Trophies can be obtained through co up

- Trophies to not reflect the true difficuly

- Therefore in order to truly reflect the difficulty of a souls games, trophy wise, co op should disable trophies.

 

____________________________________________________________________

 

Of course, one could argue that the "true difficulty" is subjective. I agree, but if you're going to incorporate the idea that Souls games are hard (which they really aren't), then you either get rid of the idea that Souls games are hard, or you restore value to the difficulty ascribes to the trophies.

The game can still be built around co op play. You just don't get trophies for it. I already said the game was more co op based, more than anything else. But that does not mean it should unlock certain rewards?

You name certain things that might define boundaries as to - again - what defines "undeserving". For me, it pretty much is:

 

- Do it solo unless it's required you co op

- Don't hack

 

That's pretty much it.

 

I think you serverely overestimate the seriousness of this all. I already have my peace with DS games not being overly difficult and becoming piss easy through co op. This is reflected in the fact that I don't bother getting trophies by them (while still playing them solo on PC). However, from an argumentative point of view, the OP is absolutely correct. The values in rarity do not reflect an equal merit of all the people. Which I agree with as there are people who have to put in a lot more work doing it solo.

They have to learn mechanics, they don't have that support, they don't have somemone who can take the attention away from them, they don't have a lot of things. So for those people to share the same rarity with the people who didn't even hit it once and let other people just kill it for them. I understand why it would upset them.

 

Thanks.

 

Trophies are indeed undervalued and that is what is being discussed here. To discuss other matters is besides the question / argument. If you make better co op adjustments, then that has an impact on the game and trophies and thus what some people in here are advocating for. Co Op directly impacts the rariry of trophies and does as someone who likes a challange and who likes to see that reflected in the rarity of trophies, it does effect me. I won't lose sleep over it. Instead, I just don't bother getting trophies for that game.

There is no issue with other people getting help (as I told you before, but apparently, reading is difficult). I and the OP already made the claim that inherently, there is nothing wrong with co op play and getting help in a videogame. This thread is indeed not about Dark Souls as a game, but about the trophies surrounding it and the requirements to get them. I know, discussing trophies on a website dedicated to trophies is a shocking thing. I'm still trying to get over that.

 

Well, I guess we disagree on what defines to boundaries to what consitutes people as "undeserving" of trophies. But I go back to what I said before. If you give people co op trophies you:

- Get rid of the idea that the game is difficult

- Adjust co op in a way that co op play is equally difficult and this equal in merrit.

You see, it is unfair that people get the same reward for doing half the work. Not even half. It's a complete joke in co op mode.

See, you do have a sense of humour^  

[Lord_gamer_1]

Dark Souls III is a hard game!!!! The Nameless King is one hard boss to fight

[Sigma999]

Simply cause the ones who intend to buy and play this are usually players from other Souls games who are accostumed to his gameplay and know how to get around , playerw who know where they get into and prepared for the challenges ahead or even casual players who play for the 1st time this kind of games and end up loving it and torturing themselves to progress and beat it to fullfil their hardcore side like my teen cousin : D

Although not being easy by a mile , is a manging game if you know how to best use your tools and upgrade your skills along the journey .

[Nano1124]

I earned my platinum. I will never forget going up and down Anor Londo stairs fighting those silver knight for a proof of concord for hours...

[NathanielJohn]

Another major reason why the game has such a high platinum % compared to its reputation is that even though the base game is hard, the trophies themselves are no harder than the base game.

 

To give a comparison: if "Crushing" was the only difficulty mode available in Uncharted, it would have a reputation for being an extremely tough game too. But it has easier difficulties, so its reputation is based on those. But the *platinum* for both games is about the same, since the Uncharted platinum requires you to beat it on Crushing.

 

In other words, game difficulty does not always correlate with trophy difficulty.

[chickenbaltipie]

This is an interesting debate.  I personally love the coop aspect of Dark Souls, in particular Dark Souls 3.  I have play the whole game with my mate, we have had some great fun doing it.  Sometimes we get invaded and that can be fun too!

 

Even though i have played the game with him, i am also playing the game solo.  I have decided to copy an idea from Matt Lees and do a "pants-man" run.  No armor at all.  Will make it more difficult.  I've always ran several characters on these games, some strictly for coop and some strictly solo.

 

I feel like i get more out of the game this way

[wackt1]

On 7/16/2016 at 1:30 PM, Wanderer said:

Careful, I have been getting a lot of angry reactions from people who do not get this point.

 

On 7/16/2016 at 1:02 PM, rdrgues said:

I don't think co-op should be removed or nerfed. If people want to experience the game that way is fine to me. The issue is the fact that they are getting the trophies by killing the bosses in a way that is not meant to be and I am going to explain why. Bosses are not designed to properly defend themselves and attack multiple players. They will stick to one target and ignore the rest as if they were not there. It is obvious that the A.I is not smart enough to handle co-op. This lead to players completely ignoring boss mechanincs and skills and making the game a lot easier that it was meant to be. If you disagree please refer to this video and tell me this is the way the boss was meant to behave in a fight

 

I don't understand why there are people criticizing others who point it out. No one cares if people co-op. The problem is that they are getting undeserved trophies by exploiting the multiplayer feature. My problem with that is that trophies lose credivility. For example I remember when I killed sullivanh for the first time a few days ago. It was so hard I had to stop playing for the day because I was about to smash my controller, but I finally managed to beat him. It was sad to come to psn profiles and see over 70% of people killed him. Problably in co-op completely ignoring the boss mechanics and skills; resulting in the trophie losing all its value.

 

I would describe the situation as an university where cheating and plegiarisism is tolerated. No one wants to have a diploma from such university. Even if you graduated without cheating employs would be aware of the university's reputation and may think you cheated as the majority of students did. Similarly, I lost all desire to get the plat in this game because it does not reflect the percentage of people who beat the game in the way that was meant to be; with hard bosses who use the skills they were given and abuse the mechanics they were designed to perform in order to defend themselves and kill you; but in co-op there is none of that. Co-op players should be able to kill bosses and finish the game but why should they get the trophies? Why are they getting so upset if someone sugest the idea of taking trophies away from them? I thought it was all about fun and not about the trophies for them.

Well TBH, if its in the system, use it. 

 

Also, for the cheating analogy, it seems like a poor choice because its actively discouraged and with dark souls, I don't see the devs or other players much discouraging the use of jolly co-op