Quality Control

[Sir-Syzygy]

I am going to assume most of you don't enjoy AAA games being sold at full price despite them clearly being unfinished? I suspect everything to do with pre-ordering video games before they are even finished might be a factor to the cause, although early access is most likely a bigger contributor. I have heard people say "they may be trash but it just means we have more games and the more the merrier" and I while I respect the opinions, I must disagree; in the case of the prime example of the damage this stuff can do, the flood of asset flips and scams overwhelm the store and make finding hidden gems nigh impossible which is one of many issues that can arise from a lack of quality control. Please share your thoughts, I am interested but I implore you to try to understand the topic beforehand.

 

EDIT: The PS store has started selling games that seem like they came from Steam Greenlight or were ported over from a mobile device, this leads me to believe that the PS store will become devoid of any quality control similar to pre-mentioned Steam. Please refer to this video for context on that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNLemHpDQ60 (Credit to Jim Sterling).

 

  

 

 

Edited March 7, 2018 by Crispy78923

[ElBolovo]

The more the better to me to be honest. I played some mobile games converted to console, like Riptide GP2 that I paid about 1 dollar in a sale, and I'm quite satisfied with this deal. 

I think these games would be free if they could run ads but as this is impossible with the Sony rules, with a fair price, I see not problem with it. You will only need to research your games before buying it, as you always should anyway. 

[totallycrushed]

I'm not so sure about "the more the better" when 40% of all Steam games were released in 2016 and most of them are garbage.

[Sir-Syzygy]

On 1/25/2017 at 6:44 PM, totallycrushed said:

I'm not so sure about "the more the better" when 40% of all Steam games were released in 2016 and most of them are garbage.

That's what this reminds me of.

Edited October 15, 2017 by Crispy78923

[Juzota]

Well, there is an option to not buy games you don't want. That's how I do it.

[Sir-Syzygy]

On 1/25/2017 at 7:26 PM, Juzota said:

Well, there is an option to not buy games you don't want. That's how I do it.

I'm sorry sir but you seem to have missed the point. For the record I haven't bought any of these games, I'm simply saying how Sony seems to be following the same mistakes as Valve has been with Steam.

If you need more please watch this video by Jim Sterling but instead of Steam think of the PS store: 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2017 by Crispy78923

[boringname123]

2 minutes ago, Juzota said:

Well, there is an option to not buy games you don't want. That's how I do it.

 

On Steam I can see how this may have become a problem, the storefront being so overloaded with crap that it becomes almost literally impossible to sort the wheat from all that chaff, but I think as long as the PSN doesn't go quite that far you've got the best solution there is. One or two Life of Black Tiger's, or whatever it's called, isn't going to hurt anyone and who knows maybe there's somebody out there who ends up liking it.

[Cynthia-Roses]

Fortunately it's no where NEAR as bad as Steam or even Xbox because Sony REFUSES to introduce an early access program, which I think is a good thing. Sony is taking a stance saying you can't sell a game on our store until it's finished. Early Access has been the worst thing to happen to Steam in a LONG time and it's disgusting how bad it's gotten. While some stinkers make it to the PSN store, it's nowhere near as bad.

[Sir-Syzygy]

On 1/25/2017 at 7:37 PM, Cynthia-Roses said:

Fortunately it's no where NEAR as bad as Steam or even Xbox because Sony REFUSES to introduce an early access program, which I think is a good thing. Sony is taking a stance saying you can't sell a game on our store until it's finished. Early Access has been the worst thing to happen to Steam in a LONG time and it's disgusting how bad it's gotten. While some stinkers make it to the PSN store, it's nowhere near as bad.

What you're saying is correct but I'm getting a feeling PlayStation may be starting to fault in the same ways, which will harm their business in the long run.

Edited October 15, 2017 by Crispy78923

[Cynthia-Roses]

Just now, Crispy78923 said:

What you're saying is correct but I'm getting a feeling PlayStation may be starting to follow down that same dark path.

I hope not.

 

No announcements of such a program have been made, so for now I think we're safe. Bad games is one thing, but unfinished games sold for full price is a whole other monster. DayZ has been in "Early access" for nearly 3 years and it's no closer to being finished than when they started despite already having the cash.

[Sir-Syzygy]

On 1/25/2017 at 7:39 PM, Cynthia-Roses said:

I hope not.

 

No announcements of such a program have been made, so for now I think we're safe. Bad games is one thing, but unfinished games sold for full price is a whole other monster. DayZ has been in "Early access" for nearly 3 years and it's no closer to being finished than when they started despite already having the cash.

It is not implausible that the DayZ developers, Bohemia Interactive, will go out of business before they finish the game.

Edited October 15, 2017 by Crispy78923

[Lilseb93]

Yah it's a bad trend. I hope Sony doesn't continue on the same path as Steam. 

[Super-Fly Spider-Guy]

Lacking fucking quality?

 

Bitch, I'm PRAYING that the Switch is gonna launch with the full amount of Virtual Console games the Wii U has, which is piss all. I'm hoping against hope for the PRIVILEGE of giving Nintendo my money for a couple of their 20+ year old games AT LAUNCH, and you're complaining about there being too many crappy games?

 

I'd take a hundred average at best games any day over one decent game. A good full price game will keep me there for a while, but a shitload of average but cheap games will keep me going for a lot longer. 

...

 

To be fair though, yeah, it does piss me right off when you see shit like Pac-Man 256 being free on your phone as a fun little mini thing, then it comes to PS4 with no improvements and all of a sudden it's worth 7.55? No, no it's fucking not and THIS bullshit needs to stop.

40 minutes ago, Crispy78923 said:

Jim fucking Sterling, son.

 

Thought I'd throw this in just for the fuck of it, but I'm watching his latest video on Evolve by coincidence while typing on this.

[Sir-Syzygy]

On 1/25/2017 at 8:13 PM, Super-Fly Spider-Guy said:

Jim fucking Sterling, son.

Jim Sterling is one of the best game journalists in my opinion. Certainly a braver man than I, giving opinions like his must burn a lot of bridges in the industry, but a good journalist should be that way.

On 1/25/2017 at 8:13 PM, Super-Fly Spider-Guy said:

Lacking fucing quality?

 

bitch, I'm PRAYING that the Switch is gonna launch with the full amount of Virtual Console games the Wii U has, which is piss all. I'm hoping against hope for the PRIVILEGE of giving Nintendo my money for a couple of their 20+ year old games AT LAUNCH, and you're complaining about there being too many crappy games?

 

I'd take a hundred average at best games any day over one decent game. A good full price game will keep me there for a while, but a shitload of average but cheap games will keep me going for a lot longer. 

...

 

To be fair though, yeah, it does piss me right off when you see shit like PacMan 256 being free on your phone as a fun little mini thing, then it comes to PS4 with no improvements and all of a sudden it's worth 7.55? No, no it's fucking not and THIS bullshit needs to stop.

My apologies but I really have no clue what the Switch or Wii U have to do with this at all?

What do Virtual Console games have to do with it either?

Edited October 15, 2017 by Crispy78923
Font change

[Oobedoob S Benubi]

Charging money for games that are free elsewhere started with Angry Birds back on X360/PS3 (to the best of my knowledge), though the "free" phone games depend on people paying for micro-transactions.

 

I think the PSN store has a pretty decent list of games, don't like them all but I'm sure somewhere out there someone does. I happen to like some games that other people view as weird garbage myself (Octodad and Kung Fu Rabbit, for instance), some people are satisfied with nothing but the big budget graphics-porn titles.

 

As others said, the more the merrier, and I can't see that many games on the store that are universally being considered as bad.

 

[BlazingCat83]

Some of the most enjoyable games for me have been indies.

[Sir-Syzygy]

On 1/25/2017 at 8:31 PM, Torracat83 said:

Some of the most enjoyable games for me have been indies.

Sorry sir but I never said anything about indies.

Edited October 15, 2017 by Crispy78923

[StrickenBiged]

The PSN Store's problem right now is that there are too many games crowding out the quality titles, but it is not that there are too many poor quality games generally. 

 

Entertainment value is an inherently subjective experience. I recently played Orc Slayer. It was £1.69. I thought it was trash and I console myself by telling myself that I just paid for the easy plat. In a world without trophies, someone should have paid me to play that game. 

 

My point is that I still found some value in it - even if that value was derived from Sony's metagame of trophy hunting and showing off one's e-peen. And my experience on Sony's platform would have been just that little bit worse off if Orc Slayer hadn't been available to purchase at all because some corporate adjudicator decided that it was too bad for release on the PS4. 

 

The solution, I think, is to make curation better so that the better games rise to the top and are more easily found by shoppers. Sony have the data from who's on your friends list, they have their "like" and 5 star rating system, they have the "people to follow" thing. They should be using it. Instead of a "like" button, why not have a "recommend" button and a section of the store that doesn't just say "These are the games your friends are playing" but "these are the games your friends recommend". Also, allow the people you follow to recommend games and have a separate section for that. So that when Colin & Greg from Kinda Funny Games recommend something, and if you're following them and tend to agree with their reviews, it appears in a specific section of the store.

 

Finally, think how you'd feel if you were a dev who's just poured years of work into your game and paid Sony your certification fees just to have someone at Sony then say "nope, not good enough for us". You might be thinking to yourself "well, okay, but the question is whether or not it's good enough for your customers, not you". I'm not saying we shouldn't ridicule and criticise bad games - of course we should - just that there might be someone out there who feels they got their money's worth out of a "bad" game (like I did with Orc Slayer) and it's unfair on both devs and consumers to deny them the opportunity to decide for themselves what is or isn't valuable.

 

Ideally though, Sony would have a Steam style refund policy so that, when you do get stung by something really bad, you can get a refund and give the licence back. (This might require the console to become always online though, so that PSN can check whether your licence is active.)

[Sir-Syzygy]

On 1/25/2017 at 8:41 PM, StrickenBiged said:

The PSN Store's problem right now is that there are too many games crowding out the quality titles, but it is not that there are too many poor quality games generally. 

 

Entertainment value is an inherently subjective experience. I recently played Orc Slayer. It was £1.69. I thought it was trash and I console myself by telling myself that I just paid for the easy plat. In a world without trophies, someone should have paid me to play that game. 

 

My point is that I still found some value in it - even if that value was derived from Sony's metagame of trophy hunting and showing off one's e-peen. And my experience on Sony's platform would have been just that little bit worse off if Orc Slayer hadn't been available to purchase at all because some corporate adjudicator decided that it was too bad for release on the PS4. 

 

The solution, I think, is to make curation better so that the better games rise to the top and are more easily found by shoppers. Sony have the data from who's on your friends list, they have their "like" and 5 star rating system, they have the "people to follow" thing. They should be using it. Instead of a "like" button, why not have a "recommend" button and a section of the store that doesn't just say "These are the games your friends are playing" but "these are the games your friends recommend". Also, allow the people you follow to recommend games and have a separate section for that. So that when Colin & Greg from Kinda Funny Games recommend something, and if you're following them and tend to agree with their reviews, it appears in a specific section of the store.

 

Finally, think how you'd feel if you were a dev who's just poured years of work into your game and paid Sony your certification fees just to have someone at Sony then say "nope, not good enough for us". You might be thinking to yourself "well, okay, but the question is whether or not it's good enough for your customers, not you". I'm not saying we shouldn't ridicule and criticise bad games - of course we should - just that there might be someone out there who feels they got their money's worth out of a "bad" game (like I did with Orc Slayer) and it's unfair on both devs and consumers to deny them the opportunity to decide for themselves what is or isn't valuable.

 

Ideally though, Sony would have a Steam style refund policy so that, when you do get stung by something really bad, you can get a refund and give the licence back. (This might require the console to become always online though, so that PSN can check whether your licence is active.)

Agreed.

Edited October 15, 2017 by Crispy78923

[Juzota]

1 hour ago, Crispy78923 said:

I'm sorry sir but you seem to have missed the point. For the record I haven't bought any of these games, I'm simply making a saying how Sony seems to be following the same mistakes as Valve did with Steam.

 

 

As long as there is games for me to buy and play, I don't mind if there is something for other people they might enjoy. Not every game needs to be enjoyable for everybody. Same thing goes for games in IGC, but some people doesn't seem to get it.

[sweetismia]

1 hour ago, Juzota said:

Well, there is an option to not buy games you don't want. That's how I do it.

 

So weird!!  That's how I do it too.  C'mon @Crispy78923, the more games the better.  The cream of the crop will rise to the top, and you can buy those.  

 

[Sir-Syzygy]

On 1/25/2017 at 8:58 PM, Juzota said:

 

As long as there is games for me to buy and play, I don't mind if there is something for other people they might enjoy. Not every game needs to be enjoyable for everybody. Same thing goes for games in IGC, but some people doesn't seem to get it.

@Juzota & @sweetismia You really don't get the point of what I was saying do you? Read what @StrickenBiged said, maybe you'll understand him, his points differ from mine but I still give him validity.

Edited October 15, 2017 by Crispy78923

[sweetismia]

No.  I'm good.  No need to overcomplicate something as simple and fun as video games.

[Sir-Syzygy]

On 1/25/2017 at 9:04 PM, sweetismia said:

No.  I'm good.  No need to overcomplicate something as simple and fun as video games.

I really mean no bad will when I say this but you seriously don't seem to be grasping what I'm saying.

Edited October 15, 2017 by Crispy78923

[Oobedoob S Benubi]

3 minutes ago, Crispy78923 said:

I really mean no bad will when I say this but you seriously don't seem to be grasping what I'm saying.

 

You were talking about not willing to pay for free games and implying wanting quality control though, while StrickenBiged is saying that having those games and paying for them is fine, but some additional form of finding out which titles you'd actually like is needed. Those two opinions are kind of different.