Nintendo Switch thread for Nintendo Switch players

[Oobedoob S Benubi]

1 hour ago, The Titan said:

I'm hoping the Nintendo Switch doesn't overshadow 3DS. I still think 3DS has plenty of time left. I'd say until 2020.The thing sold too well to be discontinued. At my local gamestop, both Nintendo Switch and 3Ds games are still sold. Even PS3 and 360 are still sold. I guess the Wii U is hard to find now.

 

All consoles get replaced eventually. For the 3DS, it'll happen in 2019, when the non-Go Pokémon games come to the Switch.

 

1 hour ago, The Titan said:

I'm debating whether or not if I should even buy an indie on Switch. I haven't found any of them that interest me. Maybe Bloodstained but I want it on 3DS for the 3D effect.

 

!

 

Golf Story, Yoku's Island Express, Bloodstained, Subsurface Circular, World Of Goo, Human Resource Machine, Banner Saga, Shovel Knight, Axiom Verge, Hollow Knight, West Of Loathing, Goetia, Death Squared, Bulb Boy, Stardew Valley, Celeste, Snipperclips (independent status debatable), Thimbleweed Park, Manticore, Oxenfree... So damn many cool indies that are already out on the Switch!

[Super-Fly Spider-Guy]

Since a few of y'all were talking about the online stuff yesterday, now's as good a time as any for me to do the same.

 

This whole time I've been waiting, eagerly for it to drop. Like on PS4 and Xbox, I never play online, like ever, but I used to sub to both services for the games. However, the games that have dropped have been pretty consistently shit. Even things like Mafia 3, the best game I can think of for a fair few months now, was 8 dollars new on disc through Microsoft's online store just the other day. That was the BEST game I've seen in a while on either platform. The games are shit, my Gold sub ends in a month or two, and my Plus sub ends at the end of March, though I've wanted it to be over for over a year now, but someone got me a year and a half or so on sale for my birthday last year I think, which was at a point I already had a fair few months left so it wasn't like I could say no, but I am damn well saying no now. PS Plus is absolute shit, and Xbox Gold is pretty well just as bad, except you get to actually own half the games and (come March) get twice as many games as PS+. So in the end, Xbox is arguably the better of the two, plus it has way more reliable online and services and shit, but being the lesser of two evils still doesn't make you a prize.

 

All this time, I've been looking forward to the Nintendo one. It's cheaper, at "only" 35 a year versus the 80 Xbox and PSN ask, it's got 20 games out the gate with more to come supposedly, and now you can finally do cloud saves and whatnot. All this time I've been eagerly anticipating playing Super Mario Bros on yet another system, blasting through Balloon Fight for the millionth time, maybe finally even finishing the first Zelda, playing even more OG Donkey Kong, etc. and since I know I'd be a sucker and buy a good few of those games individually anyway, I figure 20 odd bucks spent on 4 or 5 games (unlikely it would be that low anyway, since VC seems to be gone and AA series is 10.50 a pop), or 35 for 20 of them with more to come, and the online and save backups and whatnot, for less than half either of the other big boys, it's a steal.

 

But it's not. It's a bunch of damn old ass NES games you can play anywhere for free, and have been able to for years, and in the case of many of them I already LEGALLY own them on other systems digitally anyways. They only hold the value I give them, if Nintendo sold SMB for 10.50 I wouldn't say it's worth that, it's worth what I think it is and to me, yet another machine to buy it on isn't really worth that much. Therefore, after actual consideration, all these games are kinda worthless when you take into consideration the bevy of other ways I have to play them. For 80 bucks (taking into consideration a 20 buck deal) I could have bought the NES Classic shiny and new through Amazon and the bulk of those games, a cool controller, and a sexy little mini console, and owned it all forever. So for just over the cost of 2 years of this online service, I could have not only owned them yet again, but done so on a shiny new cool little mini console (that can also be modded to house thousands of other ROMs, but we'll ignore that), which in turn means

 

I'd just be paying for the online I don't use, and the ability to back up my saves that should have been there from day one for everyone for free anyway.

 

And with that in mind, I can't really defend Nintendo's online getup in 2018. They were the last hold out who still offered online for free. Now they want money to play on servers paid for and maintained by outside companies who get none of the money from the cost of this online service, all the while having barely any online third party games as it is (no WWE, no GTA Online, no RDR 2, no COD, no Battlefield / Battlefront, etc.) outside of Doom and... Doom 2, I guess. So basically, I'm supposed to give Nintendo money for something they offered on Switch for a year and a half for free, and completely for free for eternity on all their earlier consoles, and be happy about it? 

 

Fuck no.

 

Now if they kept with their earlier words, that it would be home to NES and SNES (emphasis on the S) games, I'd probably be more keen. 20 odd of each one, maybe a rotating variety even too, it'd in effect be a Mini NES subscription service, and I could get down with that. But as it currently stands, the system with piss all third party support (yes, it has piss all. I love the thing, it's my favorite console, I have over 100 games on it, including all of Bethesda's efforts short of Skyrim, but you're fooling yourself if you think it has third parties on the level of PS4 and Xbox, and since they are the benchmarks, anything less does in fact qualify as "piss all"), with no ability to do native voice chat across the board, that has also offered online for free for a year and a half, seems like the last system I should be giving money to play online with.

 

And for that reason, I'm thinking I might not even bother subscribing to their service. 

 

20 cool NES games sounds cool on paper, but unless that is REGULARLY added to, it's 4 games less than Xbox gets every year, you own none of them as far as we know, and they're also over 30 years old, each bloody one.

 

Playing online on Switch sounds cool on paper, except that it's been free for the last year and a half, it's been free on every prior Nintendo console, and outside of Doom and Splatoon (and I guess Mario Kart), what the hell is even on Switch that can even play online?

 

Cloud saves are cool on paper too, except they're free on Xbox, and both Xbox AND PS4 LET YOU COPY THE DAMN THINGS OFF YOUR MEMORY CARD, WHICH IF NINTENDO LET ME DO, THERE'D BE NO DAMN NEED FOR CLOUD SAVES IN THE FIRST PLACE.

 

So basically, Nintendo are blocking off the ability to back up your OWN saves, Nintendo are charging for the online they've provided for free for over a decade, and to lure me over they offer a bunch of 30+ year old ROMs I could play literally anywhere else. Thank fucking Zombie Jesus they "only" charged 35 a year for it, any more and I'd be genuinely filthy.

 

...

 

Am open to being convinced during the next Direct though. Supposedly there's one on the horizon that will deal *directly* with the online program, guess it must come after the Nindies one? Let's hope they announce there will also be AT LEAST SNES games, and that the other 10 games are absolutely killer. In any case, I'm gonna get some Splatoon 2 in, because fuck knows I ain't gonna be paying 35 a year to play that one game online once every 3 or 4 months when I get the itch.

[Eyjabria]

2 hours ago, The Titan said:

I'm hoping the Nintendo Switch doesn't overshadow 3DS. I still think 3DS has plenty of time left. I'd say until 2020.The thing sold too well to be discontinued. At my local gamestop, both Nintendo Switch and 3Ds games are still sold. Even PS3 and 360 are still sold. I guess the Wii U is hard to find now.

I'm debating whether or not if I should even buy an indie on Switch. I haven't found any of them that interest me. Maybe Bloodstained but I want it on 3DS for the 3D effect.

 

Heh, I thought I was the last 3DS fan around! Just recently bought my 4th 3DS family console (they all work btw) because I wanted the mint green Animal Crossing New 2DS XL. 3DS is my all time favorite console. 

 

There's still a good selection of 3DS games for sale in stores here as well but possibly Switch games have taken some shelf space from them and there haven't been as many new releases for 3DS lately either. I still buy more games for 3DS than for any other console and I'm hoping we'll get some more games after the ones announced this far.

When 3DS support ends I'm hoping for a 3DS successor with backwards compatibility for 3DS and DS games.

[MosesRockefeller]

5 hours ago, Ash Williams said:

Not trying to poke (well, I am, actually), but if I had 720/826 completion, I'd try to get the final 14,7% as well.

 

Try getting all teensies in all regular levels, and try a few easier invaded levels, see where you are then

Nah, I already uninstalled. Since I have the cartridge version, I'll probably trade it in at Gamestop soon.

 

I think I mentioned, but I did get a few of the invaded levels. But my tolerance level for them (especially the Shadow Rayman ones) is very very low. I ended up quitting out of 3 or 4 of them in a row in my final Legends play session. I just don't have the time for that nonsense. I don't mind a checkpointless level here and there, but I have very little patience for them in general, and I'm certainly not going back through to get those levels 100% complete. Screw that.

[MarkusT1992]

3 hours ago, Super-Fly Spider-Guy said:

But it's not. It's a bunch of damn old ass NES games you can play anywhere for free, and have been able to for years, and in the case of many of them I already LEGALLY own them on other systems digitally anyways. They only hold the value I give them, if Nintendo sold SMB for 10.50 I wouldn't say it's worth that, it's worth what I think it is and to me, yet another machine to buy it on isn't really worth that much. Therefore, after actual consideration, all these games are kinda worthless when you take into consideration the bevy of other ways I have to play them. For 80 bucks (taking into consideration a 20 buck deal) I could have bought the NES Classic shiny and new through Amazon and the bulk of those games, a cool controller, and a sexy little mini console, and owned it all forever. So for just over the cost of 2 years of this online service, I could have not only owned them yet again, but done so on a shiny new cool little mini console (that can also be modded to house thousands of other ROMs, but we'll ignore that), which in turn means

 

It's true that you can play all of these old game anywhere for free but it's actually illegal to use roms.

Besides Nintendo just recently filled a lawsuite against two rom distributing websites because of "online piracy". That could be connected to their upcoming online service and the games they offer as part of it. In response to that another big site removed all roms because it is to risky for them.

I guess Nintendo want's that you pay to play all their old games.

[SnowxSakura]

1 minute ago, MarkusT1992 said:

 

It's true that you can play all of these old game anywhere for free but it's actually illegal to use roms.

Besides Nintendo just recently filled a lawsuite against two rom distributing websites because of "online piracy". That could be connected to their upcoming online service and the games they offer as part of it. In response to that another big site removed all roms because it is to risky for them.

I guess Nintendo want's that you pay to play all their old games.

It's only illegal to use roms if you don't own the game

[MarkusT1992]

58 minutes ago, SnowxSakura said:

It's only illegal to use roms if you don't own the game

That's not entirely true. You may be allowed to make a safety copy of a game but that's still a grey area.

I suppose that most people who use roms use them because they don't own the game or aren't able to play them on the original console anymore.

[MosesRockefeller]

24 minutes ago, MarkusT1992 said:

That's not entirely true. You may be allowed to make a safety copy of a game but that's still a grey area.

I suppose that most people who use roms use them because they don't own the game or aren't able to play them on the original console anymore.

Yeah, roms are a legally grey area if you own the games, and definitely illegal if you don't.

 

But let's be real, people play roms not because they're legal or illegal, but because it's convenient. For the most part, it's not worth it for rights holders to go after individual gamers. But as you mentioned earlier, Nintendo is cracking down on rom sites. It's in their best interest, after all. They have the NES and SNES Mini, and the upcoming Switch Online platform. No doubt they consider going after a handful of popular rom sites worth the expense, since that legal warning will probably cause most of the other sites to follow suit.

 

Anyway, as @Super-Fly Spider-Guy noted, he (and most of us I'd bet) have many of these games legally as well, outside of roms. I don't agree with his point about the online services for the big three consoles. I think they're all worth it (except maybe Xbox Live, since you get cloud backup for free) for their benefits beyond "free games". Yes, those benefits used to be free. But it isn't "free" for Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo to provide cloud storage for your savegames. True, the free games haven't been stellar for a few years now. But there are occasional gems, so between that and the cloud storage, I'll keep getting them. I do agree that Nintendo needs to step up their game with their online service though. I want to see SNES, N64, GB, GBA, and DS games on there eventually. There are definitely GC games I would play on Switch, but I think that realistically, Nintendo will sell those as Switch-native remasters. I would be fine with that, if they were priced reasonably (e.g. $20 each). Time will tell how worthwhile this service is.

[MosesRockefeller]

On 8/21/2018 at 8:17 AM, Super-Fly Spider-Guy said:

Saints Row 3 is so out of left field. Oh well, day one for me. Get on it already, Rockstar.

I forgot to mention this before, but there's only one problem with Saints Row 3: a very small amount of Johnny Gat compared to the other games in the series.

Spoiler

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by MosesRockefeller

[SnowxSakura]

2 minutes ago, MosesRockefeller said:

I forgot to mention this before, but there's only one problem with Saints Row 3: a very small amount of Johnny Gat compared to the other games in the series.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

As someone whose played the entire series, what's so great about Gat? I really don't get it

[MosesRockefeller]

5 minutes ago, SnowxSakura said:

As someone whose played the entire series, what's so great about Gat? I really don't get it

You either Gat it, or you don't Gat it.

 

Anyway... how to put it? Johnny Gat is pretty much the embodiment of the game's in-your-face style. He's there to kick ass and take names, and then shoot the names with a gatling gun armchair. He's also The Boss' second-in-command, who's been there since day 1. He's fiercely loyal, and went to Hell and back to save his leader. What's not great about that?

[Eyjabria]

Traded Mario Tennis Aces to GameStop today and got incredibly good trade value for it. Switch / Nintendo games seem to be in high demand. o_O

[Dreakon13]

Started my full playthrough of Hollow Knight now that all the updates/content is released.  Game is sooo good.

[Oobedoob S Benubi]

The only perfectly legal ROM is one you extracted yourself from a cartridge that you own, as long as you don't share it. Downloading a ROM of a game of which you got the official version too gives you some wiggle room but it's technically still not legal.

 

11 minutes ago, Eyjabria said:

Traded Mario Tennis Aces to GameStop today and got incredibly good trade value for it. Switch / Nintendo games seem to be in high demand. o_O

 

One of the reasons I got Valkyria Chronicles 4 coming for Switch instead of PS4 next month.

[MosesRockefeller]

7 minutes ago, Dreakon13 said:

Started my full playthrough of Hollow Knight now that all the updates/content is released.  Game is sooo good.

I'm curious, have you learned how the Godmaster DLC works? Is it a new area(s), or does it insert new content into existing areas of the game? I'd like to see the new stuff but I don't know how. Also, I'd like to see the alternate ending if I can. I think I explored all the areas I can find without consulting a guide though.

 

Not sure if you remember, but I beat the game on the "basic ending" a while back, and haven't done much since. I did a little more exploration, and unlocked the ability to phase through those black barriers. I also found the coliseum area and beat the first two gauntlets.

 

4 minutes ago, Ash Williams said:

One of the reasons I got Valkyria Chronicles 4 coming for Switch instead of PS4 next month.

It's a perfect fit on the Switch. It plays great in Handheld Mode, and the watercolor-style graphics don't need the horsepower of the PS4. The original game was on PS3 (before it got remastered), and the 2nd and 3rd games were on PSP, so it's not a graphical powerhouse.

 

I almost finished the demo (I'm on the last mission and I got stuck on the sniper phase, so I may need to restart the mission and try again), and I like how the game keeps the classic gameplay while adding a few new features. The only unknown element now is the story, but I like what I've seen so far.

Edited August 24, 2018 by MosesRockefeller

[Oobedoob S Benubi]

4 minutes ago, MosesRockefeller said:

 

It's a perfect fit on the Switch. It plays great in Handheld Mode, and the watercolor-style graphics don't need the horsepower of the PS4. The original game was on PS3 (before it got remastered), and the 2nd and 3rd games were on PSP, so it's not a graphical powerhouse.

 

I almost finished the demo (I'm on the last mission and I got stuck on the sniper phase, so I may need to restart the mission and try again), and I like how the game keeps the classic gameplay while adding a few new features. The only unknown element now is the story, but I like what I've seen so far.

 

I've only played the first mission in the demo, by then I decided I was going to buy the game day one so I stopped the demo to prevent me from having played the first two hours of the full game and bekng bored by repetition once I got it.

 

It's the first time I'm playing a Valkyria Chronicles game by the way.

[MosesRockefeller]

3 minutes ago, Ash Williams said:

 

I've only played the first mission in the demo, by then I decided I was going to buy the game day one so I stopped the demo to prevent me from having played the first two hours of the full game and bekng bored by repetition once I got it.

 

It's the first time I'm playing a Valkyria Chronicles game by the way.

Well if you didn't know... the full game lets you pick up where you leave off in the demo. Otherwise I would have done the exact same thing as you.

 

The 3 previous games play similarly (I only played part of VC3, which is only for diehard fans since it was only released in Japan and requires a clunky emulation or hacked PSP to play in other languages), and I just love that gameplay. VC1 had the best story between 1 and 2, and I'm not sure if 4 will reach the epic heights of VC1. But even if it ends up being mostly a "tales from the front" side-game, it will be great. If you like it enough, I would definitely recommend checking out VC1.

[Oobedoob S Benubi]

11 minutes ago, MosesRockefeller said:

Well if you didn't know... the full game lets you pick up where you leave off in the demo. Otherwise I would have done the exact same thing as you.

 

Good to know, but still I'd rather start properly when the gsme releases. With a month in between I might have forgotten necessary stuff. I might start a bit the week before, though.

 

11 minutes ago, MosesRockefeller said:

The 3 previous games play similarly (I only played part of VC3, which is only for diehard fans since it was only released in Japan and requires a clunky emulation or hacked PSP to play in other languages), and I just love that gameplay. VC1 had the best story between 1 and 2, and I'm not sure if 4 will reach the epic heights of VC1. But even if it ends up being mostly a "tales from the front" side-game, it will be great. 

 

I've heard that 2 and 3 were quite different from 1 and that 4 was a return to form... Anyway as I haven't played any, I'll let myself be surprised.

 

11 minutes ago, MosesRockefeller said:

If you like it enough, I would definitely recommend checking out VC1.

 

Absolutely what I was planning to do. VC1 is on sale on PSN now but I'll wait until after VC1, and I might even wait until it's on the Switch.

[MosesRockefeller]

37 minutes ago, Ash Williams said:

I've heard that 2 and 3 were quite different from 1 and that 4 was a return to form... Anyway as I haven't played any, I'll let myself be surprised.

 

 

Absolutely what I was planning to do. VC1 is on sale on PSN now but I'll wait until after VC1, and I might even wait until it's on the Switch.

So yeah, even with VC2 and 3 being a visual and control downgrade on PSP, it was so great to have it portable. I would say it's worth it to wait for VC1 to hit the Switch.

 

VC3 was fairly close to VC1 in tone I think (again, I didn't play much). VC2 took place at a school and was more of a "school anime" theme than an epic wartime story. The gameplay was great (although I think the maps were smaller), but the plot was very different. I still liked it, but it was a very different tone.

[Dreakon13]

3 hours ago, MosesRockefeller said:

I'm curious, have you learned how the Godmaster DLC works? Is it a new area(s), or does it insert new content into existing areas of the game? I'd like to see the new stuff but I don't know how. 

 

Actually, I don't really know the details of any of these added content packs. I'm kinda going through this second playthrough a little blind since I don't remember a ton from my first playthrough (other than it being awesome) and I haven't looked up much about the new stuff.

 

Looking forward to figuring it all out though.

[syumisan]

Whelp, I picked up the Little Dragon's Cafe Limited Edition. VERY CUTE DRAGON I MIGHT SAY

[Fubuki]

On 8/24/2018 at 4:01 AM, Eyjabria said:

 

Heh, I thought I was the last 3DS fan around! Just recently bought my 4th 3DS family console (they all work btw) because I wanted the mint green Animal Crossing New 2DS XL. 3DS is my all time favorite console. 

 

There's still a good selection of 3DS games for sale in stores here as well but possibly Switch games have taken some shelf space from them and there haven't been as many new releases for 3DS lately either. I still buy more games for 3DS than for any other console and I'm hoping we'll get some more games after the ones announced this far.

When 3DS support ends I'm hoping for a 3DS successor with backwards compatibility for 3DS and DS games.

took the words out of my mouth. I hope by 2020 the 3DS successor still supports 3D. I really hate how people say 3D is dying. I always use the 3D feature on my 3DS. I watch Blu-ray 3D films on my 3D TV. I play 3D compatiable games on PS3. And I watch a lot of IMAX 3D films. I hope 3D is still getting support. I honestly think 1080p 3D is WAAAAAy more impressive than 2160p 2D. It's just better picture. 4K is overrated to me. Here's hoping the successor to the 3DS supports 3D and that 3D tvs will make a comeback.

[Oobedoob S Benubi]

Well, I've played through Banner Saga 2. Great game, the first game was already good and it's obvious in the sequel that the devs listened to feedback. Excited to start on the third game and see the conclusion of the trilogy.

 

@MosesRockefeller I think we talked about this game before and that it's not one of your preferred genres, but I'm still going to recommend it.

 

On 24/08/2018 at 8:40 PM, MosesRockefeller said:

So yeah, even with VC2 and 3 being a visual and control downgrade on PSP, it was so great to have it portable. I would say it's worth it to wait for VC1 to hit the Switch.

 

VC3 was fairly close to VC1 in tone I think (again, I didn't play much). VC2 took place at a school and was more of a "school anime" theme than an epic wartime story. The gameplay was great (although I think the maps were smaller), but the plot was very different. I still liked it, but it was a very different tone.

 

Sounds like I didn't miss much with 2 and 3. I'll check out 1 if I enjoyed 4 enough.

 

On 25/08/2018 at 11:28 PM, The Titan said:

took the words out of my mouth. I hope by 2020 the 3DS successor still supports 3D. I really hate how people say 3D is dying. I always use the 3D feature on my 3DS. I watch Blu-ray 3D films on my 3D TV. I play 3D compatiable games on PS3. And I watch a lot of IMAX 3D films. I hope 3D is still getting support. I honestly think 1080p 3D is WAAAAAy more impressive than 2160p 2D. It's just better picture. 4K is overrated to me. Here's hoping the successor to the 3DS supports 3D and that 3D tvs will make a comeback.

 

Problem is, the more you use 3D, the more your eyes get used to it. I play in PSVR and watch a lot of 3D movies in the cinema (mostly IMAX), but with both of those it's mainly because it's shown in 3D anyway, and I don't really see it any more. Compare ten years ago, it was all really jumping iut of the screen, but the more you see it, the less your eyes think of it.

[MosesRockefeller]

On 8/25/2018 at 5:28 PM, The Titan said:

took the words out of my mouth. I hope by 2020 the 3DS successor still supports 3D. I really hate how people say 3D is dying. I always use the 3D feature on my 3DS. I watch Blu-ray 3D films on my 3D TV. I play 3D compatiable games on PS3. And I watch a lot of IMAX 3D films. I hope 3D is still getting support. I honestly think 1080p 3D is WAAAAAy more impressive than 2160p 2D. It's just better picture. 4K is overrated to me. Here's hoping the successor to the 3DS supports 3D and that 3D tvs will make a comeback.

I don't care about 4K OR 3D.

 

I probably used the 3D mode on my various 3DS systems about 5 times. It was sort of cool, but I like games better with it off. I hate 3D movies. It's the same conceptual issue I have with VR - I'm not putting something on my face to be able to experience a technology. I wear glasses, but even without them I doubt I would like VR or 3D.

 

Anyway, that being said, I don't think 3D movies are going away anytime soon. 3D in gaming is probably over though.

 

6 hours ago, Ash Williams said:

Well, I've played through Banner Saga 2. Great game, the first game was already good and it's obvious in the sequel that the devs listened to feedback. Excited to start on the third game and see the conclusion of the trilogy.

 

@MosesRockefeller I think we talked about this game before and that it's not one of your preferred genres, but I'm still going to recommend it.

It wasn't so much the genre (I'm not even sure what genre it is - tactical RPG?), but I found BS1 boring and I never got the hang of the combat. I only played maybe 5-10 battles. I don't think it's for me.

Edited August 27, 2018 by MosesRockefeller

[Oobedoob S Benubi]

1 hour ago, MosesRockefeller said:

 

It wasn't so much the genre (I'm not even sure what genre it is - tactical RPG?), but I found BS1 boring and I never got the hang of the combat. I only played maybe 5-10 battles. I don't think it's for me.

 

Ah, I misremembered.

 

Too bad you gave up. Banner Saga 1 starts slow but the series keeps getting better and better (Banner Saga 2 compared to Banner Saga 1 is like Assassin's Creed II compared to Assassin's Creed I), and the gameplay is much more fun too. The story will keep going at a slow pace (even Tolkien and Martin make plots move faster than this) but it's still a story of escalation, and it has plenty of wow-moments as time goes on. Of course, that still doesn't change that the game's story goes slow, and that it even seems slower because it's reading instead of watching/listening. 

 

If you can stand the pace and work through the gameplay of the first game, the trilogy as a whole is brilliant though.

 

P.S. I'm at 40+ hours in Picross S 2 and at the final page for all kinds of puzzles.