Oh boy, trophy hacking coming to PS4?

[ShonenCat]

As much as I hate online multiplayer trophies, there still comes a certain satisfaction from actually doing it yourself. No matter how unfair the trophy may be.

[A12]

INB4 Phishing scam.

A. Only 2 Available
B. No reviews, or videos.
C. We would know of this before it happened.
D. Noone would pay.

[demonoid321]

On February 4, 2017 at 0:57 PM, BIOHAZARD-R-US said:

I don't understand why people put so much effort into something so worthless/pointless. Oooooh you hacked a bunch of trophies and now you have 100,000 illegitimate trophies that no one cares about. You're soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo cooooooooooooooooOOOOOL

It's not just that now.. Now that this is a thing well soon be seeing those people everyone dreads about who have infinite health and fly everywhere on the next gen COD games now  

[ars]

1 minute ago, demonoid321 said:

It's not just that now.. Now that this is a thing well soon be seeing those people everyone dreads about who have infinite health and fly everywhere on the next gen COD games now  

 

You do understand it's a hex editor right? It doesn't do a thing in multiplayer.

[Galactic Hyper Balls]

yess psn level 100, now I'm a real boy

 

 

Edited February 6, 2017 by Galactic Balls

[Stardroid]

7 hours ago, ars said:

@Starflakes what the fuck is wrong with you? You are not the authority to force other people feel about a specific matter one way or the other. Even less when you start insulting and slandering them when they refuse to agree with you. I think that's is the main problem you have here. You want to impose some faux ethical code how people play their games, and borderline make hex editing a game save a crime worthy of capital punishment. Then you get a hissy fit when people call bullshit. 

 

@Rach is damn right calling your stunts the new low on PSNP. A save file is not a child. It's a save file.

 

You're not telling me or anyone else what to do with the games we own. I don't see the point in editing saves but looking at your rhetoric, I'll just point out everyone is completely free to do just as they please with their own save file, there's nothing competitive about comparing a bunch of PNG images when the games don't even match, and all you can do about hex editing are the couple isolated cases you manage to find an excuse to flag a person off  the PSNP leaderboards. That's it. That's all. Live with it.

 

Alright, I will try and write this comment again without sounding too angry as you do not seem to understand what I am actually saying. First and foremost, I am not the authority or A authority. I argued against the moral paradigm proposed by Elverick. This is your first logical fallacy. Asking "who the fuck I am" while I did not force anything. I just gave X and Y reason as to why Elverick's reasoning is so incredibly poor. And it is poor by demonstration (Kohlberg method). It's easy to find out. Selfish morality is for toddlers. 

 

The main issue here does not seem to be what you propose. I don't care how people play their games, as long as they do it within the boundaries of the rules. And even if they do things according to the rules, questions can still be asked. Is hacking games fair to the players who do the legitemately? Should they be included int he leaderboards? Should they affect rarity? What kind of punishment should they receive? Speaking of punishment. You strawmanned me, which is not uncommon in threads like these. I did not propose capitcal punishment for people who would use this device. I proposed a permaban. Speaking of capital punishment, seems like I also have to enact the labour or explaining to you what exactly an anlogy is and how the argumentative aspect works. Not only to you, but also to Rach and the influx of likers with him. 

 

The analogy of the hacker and the rapist is not an argument that demonstrates that both crimes are equal in magnitude. This is a very dishonest assertion on your and Rach's part. The magnitude of the crime is irrelevant in this analogy. The point the analogy is trying to make is that arguing that if something does not personally affect you, that you should not care, is an incredibly poor argument. I gave rape as an extreme example to make people realise that this laissez-fair attitude is not ethical at all. Again: I am not saying rape and hacking trophies are the same. It's actually quite unfortunate that some people would reason like this. I'd like to figure out what does on inside their heads. 

 

I don't get little hissy fits when people call bullshit. I've been proven wrong in the past and I happily admit it. Had a little discussion with someone called Parker who showed me reason and I happily conceded. I personally get increasingly frustrated with people like you, like Rach, like Elverick, because I have to continue to explain and enact the labour of correcting your misrepresentations of my arguments and also my character. 

 

To delve deeper into the editing of save files, I don't care if someone edits their save to have some fun. I start caring when it starts being used to cheat trophies. You know, on this website that kind of revolves around trophies? God forbid there is outrage against people potentially obtaining them without having to do anything to get them. Even more innacurately influencing ratings. It's not as much about being competitive as it is about time spent v hacking. 

I hope you undertand the example of Super Meat Boy. I will most likely have to spend months to get the platinum. If some random person comes along and is just able to hack it (which is doubtable of course) then how is that fair to me and the other very small percentage who were able to do it? It isn't. And that brings me to the crux of what I am saying and why I disagree with Elverick's attitude.

 

Firstly it's complete arrogance to project your own personality onto others and sell it as being good for your mental health. Secondly, an indifferent attitude to something that is clearly wrong is abject, even more so when you reason it's because it does not personally affect you. That is what I am speaking out against. But this of course gets lost in translation when you're hypberbole and you depict me as some sort of villain that's called Dr. Morality with his Ethic's gun shooting at people turning them into Immanuel Kants of our time. Or when people say that I believe rape and hacking are the same in magnitude. It's absolutely disgusting that I have to delve so deep into this, explaining to you, as if you are people in elementary school, what I really am saying. That is a shame, and that is what is so frustrating. The narcissism that is "you disagree with me and call my argument stupid, so you must be angry". Rather than reasoning that in fact, your argument might be poor. That, my friend, is the summary of all that is wrong with some in these parts. And I make that mistake too from time to time. But it's easier to depict someone as angry and not accepting of your arguments right? It sure as hell is a lot easier than looking at your own arguments for faults. To demonstrate this bias, have a look at them and see if the arguments I gave against them are countered.  They aren't and you know why? I'll let you figure that one out.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Starflakes

[Guest]

Is this like similiar to Borderlands "Willowtree" save hex editor? Even though you could edit save with that for ps3 borderlands it wasnt that easy to pop trophies. Though you could make infinte health shields and super ridiculous OP weapons to help get the trophies easier.

[ArmoredSnowman]

4 hours ago, azlanslayer said:

 

It's a possibility once this software goes mainstream, due to the high price it has. Yeah, reminds me of Xploder, of which didn't much use once Bruteforce came and everyone started using Bruteforce. I think Bruteforce isn't support anymore though or something, it's been a long time since I checked up on it. But regardless, I hope sony patch this up soon, just like they did for Vita. I'd love to have BOTH PS4 and Vita free from hacked trophies.

 

 

Not sure how do you can differentiate from those who legitly got their plats since they can make it look legit, if the software works just as action replay / gameshark does.

Don't believe Bruteforce has been updated since 2014.

3 hours ago, demonoid321 said:

It's not just that now.. Now that this is a thing well soon be seeing those people everyone dreads about who have infinite health and fly everywhere on the next gen COD games now  

It won't affect a thing for online portion of COD. Save modding can only be usable for offline campaign -- possibly, but doubtful, zombies. You won't see modded lobbies on PS4 for a long time.

4 minutes ago, ERGOPROXY-DECAY said:

Is this like similiar to Borderlands "Willowtree" save hex editor? Even though you could edit save with that for ps3 borderlands it wasnt that easy to pop trophies. Though you could make infinte health shields and super ridiculous OP weapons to help get the trophies easier.

Dunno what Willowtree is, but yes this would be a hex editor, and would affect stats. If a game has collectibles, a person can cheat them. If a game requires a certain amount of quests finished, you can cheat them. Not all things can be change though, as some variables would be on server -- like you won't be able to use this to cheat the challenges on Arkham PS4 games, but would be able to cheat the Riddler trophies (technically anyway). Maybe there's more to it, but fuck spending $70 to find out.

[damon8r351]

So there's this guy at my work, who's like 20 years old, who's funny as hell. If anyone's been taking notice of my status updates, it's the same guy we were giving a ration of shit to for his anime girl pillow the other day, and also the guy that sent me the link to the "I'm A Weeaboo" song I posted earlier. He's got a thick skin and a good sense of humor about himself. He's got this shtick at work where he says whiny catchphrases about millennials at the top of his voice during down times. He's done some doozies like:

• "I'm a millennial and triggering triggers me!"
• "I'm a millennial and only want freedom of speech if people agree with me!"
• "I'm a millennial and I think that I can achieve peace through rioting!"
• "I'm a millennial and I'm angry that there's no Starbucks location in my safe space!"

The best part of it is that you'll see older coworkers look up over their workstations at the noise, then make some sort of mental checkmark in their heads before ducking back down to get back to what they're doing. The point is that this kid's razor sharp wit makes al-Udeid that slightly less unbearable. Anyway, the point is that now whenever I read something in these parts, in my head I precede it with "I'm a millennial and I think that..." in his too-close-to-home whiny-ass voice.

[DARKB1KE]

15 hours ago, BIOHAZARD-R-US said:

 

But that's part of human nature to be competitive, so not really.

 

 

I'd say we are more cooperative than anything.  Humans work together to advance things, the biggest example is technology or medicine.

Competition is a social construct which starts at capitalism. 

Now, if we had communism, people would have shared efforts. 

Edited February 6, 2017 by DARKB1KE

[Doomsdayman]

37 minutes ago, DARKB1KE said:

 

I'd say we are more cooperative than anything.  Humans work together to advance things, the biggest example is technology or medicine.

Competition is a social construct which starts at capitalism. 

Now, if we had communism, people would have shared efforts. 

 

I wonder how the world would look if communism won without Stalin of course.

 

Well it's only a HEX editor and every online data is mostly stored online now. (At least I think and hope)

 

If people want to use to hack trophies then let them. Yes, they can boast all they want but in the end the guilt will haunt them.

 

And the people who get it legit they keep the feeling that they earned the trophy. Don't let that earning diminish because some people didn't get it the right way.

To be fair same could be said about glitches/cheats and boosting trophies. You can talk about because it's part of the game. But the truth is, it's not meant to play that way. Glitches are faults that should have been repaired.

 

Back in the day we had all kinds of cheat hardware Gameshark, Codebreaker, Game Genii. So it just became taboo because of trophies.

 

We should be thankful it's just a hex editor and not a online aimbot or even worse something that can easily hack into other people's account (I know it's really dumb to hack a account on a console, but if they just released a script then everybody could hack anybody).

Edited February 6, 2017 by Doomsdayman

[Cynthia-Roses]

In the olden days I didn't really care about cheating. You were only screwing yourself out of a legitimate experience and often times the cheats were stuff you did after you beat the game to have a little fun afterwards. However now that cheating affects the leaderboards, I kind of have a stronger stance against it. If you are cheating offline and don't intend to upload cheat acquired trophies, etc. then fine, however I have a serious problem when people basically cheat to the top of the leaderboard.

 

Cheesing trophies annoys me a bit too, but I can at LEAST accept that because you're using the game to beat the game, but modifying the game to give yourself trophies kind of sucks. Glad that sites like this at least flag and ban cheaters from appearing on the leaderboards.

Also the fact that people pay almost $70 to cheat shows how desperate some people are. It also is kind of a waste of money because you have no idea how long this device will work. Every update threatens its functionality.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Cynthia-Roses
Added

[Natsuu24]

When this rolls, sony will stop it with update, and will be very fast...

[Doomsdayman]

27 minutes ago, Natsuu24 said:

When this rolls, sony will stop it with update, and will be very fast...

I don't think they can. See you put the save file on a USB. Then put the USB in your PC. Then run the program. Then copy the save from the USB to your PS4 and then you have it.

 

The only way is better encrypted saves or copy locks. Sony can't do a damn thing about it.

 

Unless they do the 360 approach where you can only backup saves on that OS formatted USB.

[ars]

51 minutes ago, Cynthia-Roses said:

However now that cheating affects the leaderboards, I kind of have a stronger stance against it. If you are cheating offline and don't intend to upload cheat acquired trophies, etc. then fine, however I have a serious problem when people basically cheat to the top of the leaderboard.

People don't get to choose whether they're added to PSNP, yet the community at large maintains the leaderboards are "legit" and there's a constant moral discussion surrounding it even while the people this ambiguous morality should apply to aren't even the users of this site. The discussion is running in circles. Savescumming, glitching, exploiting bugs and boosting, even if someone accepts it's cheating it's still "legit" cheating. But lo and behold if you go edit a save file. "You dirty cheater aren't you ashamed!?"

 

Sly is doing his best to keep the community happy, applying his own algorithm to calculate rarity, and giving out a tool to flag the only people you can detect did cheat (ie. pop a trophy in the wrong order, or an unachievable). And those are some nice additions that work well for the PSNP bubble.

 

However, when it comes to something like this, it took six pages into the discussion for me to point out it's a hex editor, and applying hex editors or Action Replay codes for god mode and whatnot has been around for decades. I'm amused how few posters even understand what "cheating" is or how it works from PSNP point of perspective, much less accept the realities surrounding it.

 

The accounts that are added to the leaderboards are not comparable in any sense because their playtime isn't tracked, they do not have matching game entries, a 10-hour game has the same points score as a 1000-hour game. There is nothing to make an actual, competitive comparison. It just tracks volume, it's just a glorified Noby Noby Boy stretch meter. The whole talk about if someone cheated the stretch meter is useless, because you're talking about a "threat" you can't detect and don't have any statistical data on to put in proportion. That's just xenophobia at it's worst. This purported moral enemy that you can't see or hear, but must have completely ruined your ah-so-precious rarity.

 

Rather than endulge fantasies of this scale I wish people rather take the "leaderboards" for what they actually are, as they certainly don't (and can't) track any statistics comparable to sports or anything else. It's just a list of trophies. The focus of the discussion is "the cheater" somehow ruins your gaming experience. He/she doesn't, not unless someone is using god mode or aimbots against you in a multiplayer lobby and even then, that's an extreme rarity when it comes to consoles. Rather people on PSNP are ruining their own gaming experience repeatedly fussing over something that has more to do with their imagination than anything else.

Edited February 6, 2017 by ars

[Doomsdayman]

4 minutes ago, ars said:

People don't get to choose whether they're added to PSNP, yet the community at large maintains the leaderboards are "legit" and there's a constant moral discussion surrounding it even while the people this ambiguous morality should apply to aren't even the users of this site. The discussion is running in circles. Savescumming, glitching, exploiting bugs and boosting, even if someone accepts it's cheating it's still "legit" cheating. But lo and behold if you go edit a save file. "You dirty cheater aren't you ashamed!?"

 

Sly is doing his best to keep the community happy, applying his own algorithm to calculate rarity, and giving out a tool to flag the only people you can detect did cheat (ie. pop a trophy in the wrong order, or an unachievable). And those are some nice additions that work well for the PSNP bubble.

 

However, when it comes to something like this, it took six pages into the discussion for me to point out it's a hex editor, and applying hex editors or Action Replay codes for god mode and whatnot has been around for decades. I'm amused how few posters even understand what "cheating" is or how it works from PSNP point of perspective, much less accept the realities surrounding it.

 

The accounts that are added to the leaderboards are not comparable in any sense because their playtime isn't tracked, they do not have matching game entries, a 10-hour game has the same points score as a 1000-hour game. There is nothing to make an actual, competitive comparison. It just tracks volume, it's just a glorified Noby Noby Boy stretch meter. The whole talk about if someone cheated the stretch meter is useless, because you're talking about a "threat" you can't detect and don't have any statistical data on to put in proportion. That's just xenophobia at it's worst. This purported moral enemy that you can't see or hear, but must have completely ruined your ah-so-precious rarity.

 

Rather than endulge fantasies of this scale I wish people rather take the "leaderboards" for what they actually are, as they certainly don't (and can't) track any statistics comparable to sports or anything else. It's just a list of trophies. The focus of the discussion is "the cheater" somehow ruins your gaming experience. He/she doesn't, not unless someone is using god mode or aimbots against you in a multiplayer lobby and even then, that's an extreme rarity when it comes to consoles. Rather people on PSNP are ruining their own gaming experience repeatedly fussing over something that has more to do with their imagination than anything else.

 

To be fair I think I am running my life with trophies. I have like 100 hours on Warhawk doing nothing els but boosting. Every time I am asking my self "WTF am I doing with my life.".

[kusuriuriPT]

well trophys are only worth the amount of care that people put on them.

im against this, i just would like that sony would implement a policy that when mp throphies are dead becouse of servers, if you did all the other ones, you would receive all the mp throphies.

[ArmoredSnowman]

Guys, Xploder just announced their PS4 Save editor for even cheaper. It's safe to say the save modding scene is coming to PS4 whether we or you like it or not. 

[DaivRules]

I'm an existentialist and someone who does not see value in leaderboards, as they are merely arbitrary indications of bits flipped a certain way in computer memory, coded to trigger a little image for an account, compared to other people in arbitrary ways to indicate an arbitrary order. The leaderboards don't take into account all sorts of things that can't be accounted for anyway. I see other people placing intense value into such a flawed system, and whatever. I like scotch, you like beer. It was inevitable as the size of the PS4 audience grew that people would find ways of doing what people have been doing on game saves since pretty much their inception of being locally stored.

 

As far as I'm concerned, every person on every leaderboard had someone else log into their account and pop their trophies for them anyway. This is undetectable by the current system.

 

If someone has found out how to save edit on the PS4, more are on their way (as pointed out above). These people will have no shame reverse-engineering each other and releasing a competing product.

 

If you personally place value in leaderboards, you'll need to find a way to accept this, find a way to adapt to this, or find a way to ignore this. I'm sorry if any of you feel your life has changed because of the news.

[starcrunch061]

4 hours ago, Doomsdayman said:

 

To be fair I think I am running my life with trophies. I have like 100 hours on Warhawk doing nothing els but boosting. Every time I am asking my self "WTF am I doing with my life.".

 

What's 100 hours? That's less than 5 days, and if you enjoy the hunt, it's probably better than many hours you'll spend later in life.

 

3 hours ago, kusuriuriPT said:

i just would like that sony would implement a policy that when mp throphies are dead becouse of servers, if you did all the other ones, you would receive all the mp throphies.

 

God, I hope not. 

[Eraezr]

I've tweeted to Playstation and Ask Playstation. Hopefully the relevant departments are already working on a counter-measure.

[ArmoredSnowman]

9 minutes ago, Eraezr said:

I've tweeted to Playstation and Ask Playstation. Hopefully the relevant departments are already working on a counter-measure.

No such way to counter it. Best they can do is get the software delisted from the sites.

Edited February 6, 2017 by ArmoredSquirreXD

[DamagingRob]

3 hours ago, DaivRules said:

As far as I'm concerned, every person on every leaderboard had someone else log into their account and pop their trophies for them anyway. This is undetectable by the current system.

Hey, man, it's not my fault my nephew wanted to play LEGO Lord of the Rings! 

[PowerCoard]

On 2/4/2017 at 2:04 PM, kuuhaku said:

Vita reporting should be enabled too. Henkaku has a save editor in addition to direct access to the trophy folders on vitas.

Sony has given up on the vita don't expect to much from them on vita trophies 

[shar0412]

Whatever floats someone's boat I guess. Seems pointless to me, but then again, some people pay others to get trophies for them...