NieR Automata Trophies

[Paige-ID]

On 3/3/2017 at 1:20 PM, Undead Wolf said:

 

Guys, nobody is forcing you to earn trophies you can't be bothered with. If you don't find it fun, then just play the game until you're bored and be done with it. Trophies are there for people who want to get something extra out of the game they're playing. There's no need to ruin the fun of others now is there?

I'm not sure what you're getting at. You're insinuating that my actions or thoughts somehow promote compromising the enjoyment of others? I love getting 100% in games, and the enjoyment of obtaining 100% outweighs the aggravation of having to do asinine things in order to obtain it. With that said, a game that allows me to only focus on elements I enjoy speaks to my interests.

If I don't like the requirements of a trophy, I should simply not obtain it and move on. In that same breath, if someone does not like the fact that trophies can be purchased, he or she should just unlock it through conventional means. Being able to unlock trophies with in-game money seems like it gives players the largest variety of options. Plus, it's a reminder of the fact that trophies, achievements, and video games are just that; games. Not some serious achievement like an Olympic medal, or an education diploma. 

Edited March 6, 2017 by Paige-ID

[daftprophet]

On 3/2/2017 at 9:51 PM, Wanderer said:

The main reason why trophies are a thing is to put in a challenge, one way or another. You have easy platinums, you have hard platinums. Grinds, multiplayer, no death runs, speedruns and such. I have no issues with easy platinums, unless it's Super Mayo plat. Because if you got it, it means you earned it. Now all platinum trophies on Nier Automata are void of all merit. Which is incredibly annoying for people who like a challenge, who like to obtain trophies. I also don't really understand what's so shocking to some people about the fact that some people just have it as a hobby to challenge themselves through video games. This trend needs to stop immediately and is only embraced by people who do not like to challenge themselves, can't handle the challenge or are just indifferent. None of which is a solid criteria to discuss this issue. And it is an issue. 
Just imagine, that in Super Meat Boy, you get to buy all the no death runs after completing all worlds twice. Why would you approve of people taking a massive shit on actual players who had the determination and skill to pull it off? Why would you allow such a feature to make obsolete, any challenge or merit in trophies? 

 

Hahaha.  YOUR attitude towards trophies is actually worse. You are basically saying anyone who enjoys their games for fun is bullshit because trophy hunting to them may be secondary to actually enjoying the game as intended.

 

I enjoy earning trophies as a hobby too, but when you treat it like a job and everything else is wrong or not valid? Fuck, its no longer a hobby. If you earn these trophies in Nier, you still EARNED them and they are not devalued unless YOU choose to believe so, which is your right I suppose.

 

I hope I'm wrong.

 

Edited March 6, 2017 by Stevieboy

[zeda12123]

You have to beat the game three times to be able to buy trophies anyway right? Who cares. I love the drakengard franchise so I'll be earning them the hard way but if someone wants to buy them that's on them, it doesn't impact me in anyway.

 

Even if buying trophies for currency becomes a thing I can't say I'd be annoyed. Too many times a good game has had one or two totally ridiculous trophies, I just plat Tales of Graces which required you to spend hours grinding out something to 9999 when a regular person would probably only get it to triple digits. I can understand being annoyed you can just buy the reward for doing "x cool thing" but on the other hand grinding for hours and hours for certain ones is lame. AM I forced to get them? No, but I'm sure many of you share a sense of annoyance when a game you love and want to plat has like one totally garbage trophy. 

 

That said you either have to grind out a bunch of currency or save scum like theres no tomorrow, and in that time you probably could have just earned the trophies yourself. 

[Stardroid]

8 hours ago, daftprophet said:

 

Hahaha.  YOUR attitude towards trophies is actually worse. You are basically saying anyone who enjoys their games for fun is bullshit because trophy hunting to them may be secondary to actually enjoying the game as intended.

 

I enjoy earning trophies as a hobby too, but when you treat it like a job and everything else is wrong or not valid? Fuck, its no longer a hobby. If you earn these trophies in Nier, you still EARNED them and they are not devalued unless YOU choose to believe so, which is your right I suppose.

 

I hope I'm wrong.

 

I never said such a thing at all. I said that trophies are a nice add on fun wise and an enrichment. I never said you couldn't have fun if the trophy list is terrible. Please, for the love of God, why is it so hard for people to read what I am actually saying? Why do some of you feel the need to make up little stories about others so you can argue with a karikature? So why am I treating it like a job? I've earned 1.70 trophies per day, that's 0.20 less than you! Why don't you actually do some digging before making yourself look silly? And no, you are wrong, trophies in Nier are devalued as there is no way for other players to know how you went on about it. Achievements is not only for yourself, but also for others to see what you have achieved.This comparison aspect is important to some, as is within multiple hobbies, and thus, if this aspect is being devalued, we can conclude that this practice devalues trophies. Being able to buy trophies beats the purpose of them as you bypass their original requirement. Having to clear a level by not dying and obtaining that trophy by paying in game currency or real life curency! for it is completely out of order as you just may throw trophies out of the window altogether.

To also quickly touch upon what you seem to be unable to reason is the following:  There are two dimensions to the word "earning". Earning them as in achieving them, and earning them as in having fulfilled the parameters required that a feeling of merit is justified. You only touch on the former, which is a completely void point to make as it not in a thousand years touches upon the core of what is being said here.
But yes, you're wrong and you should feel ashamed of yourself for being full of assumptions, Because in all essence, I am just someone who likes videogames and on top of that likes to 100%. I will always disagree with enabling people to actually buy trophies for given reasons above. Argue with those.

 

Also, the argument that it does not impact you as an individual (this is not to you, Daftprophet) is an incredibly self centred one. It does not have to impact you, it can impact others. Not only does it impact others, it impacts the whole system potentially and also this website. Stats would become meanlingless, in particular to compare them. Rarity, meaningless, points earned, meanlingless, time of platinum, meaningless. You can kiss half of the website goodbye. But as long as it does not impact you personally. 

Edited March 6, 2017 by Stevieboy

[TheAveryChu]

I find that buying a trophy would diminish the fun and satisfaction or earning it. That being said, if executed correctly, I think this can be a pretty good idea, simply because it is providing an alternative method to unlocking the same achievement. Furthermore, if the grindy, build up enough gil route still required accomplishing some great feat (like beating the game on the hardest difficulty), then I wouldn't say the value of unlocking the trophy through traditional means would be greatly diminished. 

I also just came off a horribly buggy game that can lock you out of trophies, so knowing that one way or another I'll be able to reasonably unlock all the trophies is nice. 

[Kishnabe]

If the platinum can be done in 2-3 playthroughts....then maybe buying trophies may be pointless.

Edited March 8, 2017 by Kishnabe

[Paige-ID]

On 3/4/2017 at 8:00 PM, Undead Wolf said:

 

Doesn't feel forced to go for trophies? That 93% completion tells a different story.  

 

I don't have the right to tell a developer how to make a trophy list any more than you do. That doesn't mean I can't protest when the trophy system is made a mockery of like this. I'm just thankful most developers actually try to make a challenging/fun list. Trophy hunting would be so boring if you guys had your way. 

The trophy list can still be challenging. Nobody is forcing you to buy them with in-game money. You can unlock the trophies the traditional way and nobody is going to stop you. Just like in real life, the hunt is what you make of it. Some people enjoy the hunt, others just like to eat the meat. You can hunt with a scoped rifle or do it with an old fashioned longbow. Either way, your accomplishments and your end result are not diminished based on what the other hunters are doing.

Edited March 8, 2017 by Paige-ID

[Undead Wolf]

14 hours ago, Paige-ID said:

The trophy list can still be challenging. Nobody is forcing you to buy them with in-game money. You can unlock the trophies the traditional way and nobody is going to stop you. Just like in real life, the hunt is what you make of it. Some people enjoy the hunt, others just like to eat the meat. You can hunt with a scoped rifle or do it with an old fashioned longbow. Either way, your accomplishments and your end result are not diminished based on what the other hunters are doing.

 

This argument doesn't make much sense to me. Why would I make it more difficult for myself if there's literally no incentive to do so? Applying this logic, if a trophy asks you to play a game on easy mode, why not do it on hard? The game wants 50 headshots? Hell, why not fucking blindfold myself to make it more challenging? Yeah, nobody is "forcing me" to buy them, but there's literally no point in unlocking them legitimately. The platinum means nothing at this point and it would just be a waste of time doing so.

Edited March 8, 2017 by Undead Wolf

[DFuzed]

Sorry if this has been answered, but has this been confirmed for the NA release? 

 

I've only seen the Japanese screenshot of the secret shop, so I've seen the prices needed for said trophies. And, even knowing about this (possibly) existing, it hasn't changed how I'm playing the game. I get the feeling that, at least for my time playing it, I will have around 40 or so of the trophies done as part of my natural gameplay style. As for the other trophies, where grinding comes into play (I am not looking forward to getting every weapon maxed out), then I might consider buying the rest if that's an option. 

[daftprophet]

On 3/6/2017 at 0:57 AM, Wanderer said:

I never said such a thing at all. I said that trophies are a nice add on fun wise and an enrichment. I never said you couldn't have fun if the trophy list is terrible. Please, for the love of God, why is it so hard for people to read what I am actually saying? Why do some of you feel the need to make up little stories about others so you can argue with a karikature? 

You don't have to say it, it's pretty much inferred.  Nobody is making up stories but I was definitely brash.

 

On 3/6/2017 at 0:57 AM, Wanderer said:

So why am I treating it like a job? I've earned 1.70 trophies per day, that's 0.20 less than you! Why don't you actually do some digging before making yourself look silly?

How silly!  Just because I have a random stat showing "more earned trophies per day" does not indicate treating game playing or trophy hunting like a job.  I suppose I was eluding to the way of thinking about a "challenge" and how you say this trend needs to stop immediately.  What may be challenging for you may not be for others and vice versa.  It sounds like you're setting trophy hunting parameters and treating it like a job. 

 

On 3/6/2017 at 0:57 AM, Wanderer said:

And no, you are wrong, trophies in Nier are devalued as there is no way for other players to know how you went on about it.

What do you mean?  I found out earlier in this very thread that they do not unlock all at once unless you "buy" them at the end.  I'm pretty sure that is a clear enough way to know how you went on about it.  

 

On 3/6/2017 at 0:57 AM, Wanderer said:

Achievements is not only for yourself, but also for others to see what you have achieved.This comparison aspect is important to some, as is within multiple hobbies, and thus, if this aspect is being devalued, we can conclude that this practice devalues trophies. Being able to buy trophies beats the purpose of them as you bypass their original requirement. Having to clear a level by not dying and obtaining that trophy by paying in game currency or real life curency! for it is completely out of order as you just may throw trophies out of the window altogether.

To also quickly touch upon what you seem to be unable to reason is the following:  There are two dimensions to the word "earning". Earning them as in achieving them, and earning them as in having fulfilled the parameters required that a feeling of merit is justified. You only touch on the former, which is a completely void point to make as it not in a thousand years touches upon the core of what is being said here.

Comparing your trophies to others is fine as long as you aren’t a jerk about it and holding yourself to a higher standard or something.  I'm not disagreeing with you that this practice of adding the option to "buy" the trophies is bogus, but at the same time I find it hilarious.  It’s a choice and you do not have to do it.  You can still play the game and earn the trophies the way it's intended.  Only a fool would pay for trophies anyway!  Also, I'm pretty sure that "earning" them is still the same here, but maybe it's subjective?  If you unlocked them without paying for them, you are still doing both.  I would absolutely feel that I fulfilled the parameters for the trophies, since that's what was required in the game to earn them.  I did not buy them and definitely feel that my honest attempt would be justified for sure.  This is not a void point at all.  

 

On 3/6/2017 at 0:57 AM, Wanderer said:

But yes, you're wrong and you should feel ashamed of yourself for being full of assumptions, Because in all essence, I am just someone who likes videogames and on top of that likes to 100%. I will always disagree with enabling people to actually buy trophies for given reasons above. Argue with those.

What?  I'm wrong because I have an opinion and disagree with certain aspects of your post?  I'm not ashamed for assuming, but yeah, I suppose I could have worded it differently?  I'm glad you like video games too. I mean, that's why we're here, yeah?

 

On 3/6/2017 at 0:57 AM, Wanderer said:

Also, the argument that it does not impact you as an individual (this is not to you, Daftprophet) is an incredibly self centred one. It does not have to impact you, it can impact others. Not only does it impact others, it impacts the whole system potentially and also this website. Stats would become meanlingless, in particular to compare them. Rarity, meaningless, points earned, meanlingless, time of platinum, meaningless. You can kiss half of the website goodbye. But as long as it does not impact you personally. 

I know it's not a dig directly at me, but yeah maybe it is self centered and whatever.  You're absolutely right though, it may impact other people and the sites stats and such.  I just choose not to let things like this affect me, and hey, I don't get bent out of shape about it.  I will definitely be picking this title up and earn the trophies legit as long as I enjoy the game and it's fun.  Based on what I've seen and know about it so far about it, it appears to be on my list of games to play.  I wouldn't bother otherwise...

There are other threads for this in particular, but rarity and challenge or difficulty don't always go hand in hand either.  

[Stardroid]

8 hours ago, daftprophet said:

You don't have to say it, it's pretty much inferred.  Nobody is making up stories but I was definitely brash.

 

How silly!  Just because I have a random stat showing "more earned trophies per day" does not indicate treating game playing or trophy hunting like a job.  I suppose I was eluding to the way of thinking about a "challenge" and how you say this trend needs to stop immediately.  What may be challenging for you may not be for others and vice versa.  It sounds like you're setting trophy hunting parameters and treating it like a job. 

 

 

What do you mean?  I found out earlier in this very thread that they do not unlock all at once unless you "buy" them at the end.  I'm pretty sure that is a clear enough way to know how you went on about it.  

 

Comparing your trophies to others is fine as long as you aren’t a jerk about it and holding yourself to a higher standard or something.  I'm not disagreeing with you that this practice of adding the option to "buy" the trophies is bogus, but at the same time I find it hilarious.  It’s a choice and you do not have to do it.  You can still play the game and earn the trophies the way it's intended.  Only a fool would pay for trophies anyway!  Also, I'm pretty sure that "earning" them is still the same here, but maybe it's subjective?  If you unlocked them without paying for them, you are still doing both.  I would absolutely feel that I fulfilled the parameters for the trophies, since that's what was required in the game to earn them.  I did not buy them and definitely feel that my honest attempt would be justified for sure.  This is not a void point at all.  

 

What?  I'm wrong because I have an opinion and disagree with certain aspects of your post?  I'm not ashamed for assuming, but yeah, I suppose I could have worded it differently?  I'm glad you like video games too. I mean, that's why we're here, yeah?

 

I know it's not a dig directly at me, but yeah maybe it is self centered and whatever.  You're absolutely right though, it may impact other people and the sites stats and such.  I just choose not to let things like this affect me, and hey, I don't get bent out of shape about it.  I will definitely be picking this title up and earn the trophies legit as long as I enjoy the game and it's fun.  Based on what I've seen and know about it so far about it, it appears to be on my list of games to play.  I wouldn't bother otherwise...

 

There are other threads for this in particular, but rarity and challenge or difficulty don't always go hand in hand either.  

 

1. It's only inferred is you're making baseless assumptions.

 

2. Spending more time on trophies than me is a small indicator that you treat it more as a "job" than I do". When I say this trend needs to stop immediately, I have already given plenty of reasons. On the other hand, me having a 93 completion rate make it seem more of a "job" to me. I am basically trying to say that it makes no sense to think this of me.

 

3. I have never seen anyone be an elitest to someone else about the trophies they have earnt. The argument about personal choice has already been discussed and debunked. Plenty of fools would pay for trophies and it would break the system. "Earning" them is not the same at all and I don't see how you can say that when I have explained the difference to you. Has nothing to do with subjectivity as there is a clear distinction. If you obtain a no death trophy by buying it, then you did not meet the requirement of the original trophy at all and you shouldn't feel justified. If you got them the way the trophy wants you to get it, then it's justified. 

 

4. You are wrong because your arguments are not good arguments  Not because you have a different opinion. And yeah, you should think twice before assuming, because it's the lowest of the low when it comes to discussions. Discuss the things that you know rather than the things you think you know. 

 

5. I will not support a game that features a cheap and potentially breaking feature, not only for this website, but for trophy hunters alike. As I stated before, if this becomes a thing, then obtaining trophies is meaningless as you would bypass their original requirement. This would muddy the waters as people can't tell if one did it legitmately or just bought them. Both ways you "earn" them. But as I said before, there is earning them and earning them.

I know that rarity and difficulty don't go hand in hand, which is not the point that I am making. But enabling players to buy trophies significantly decreases the difficulty. As obtaining money to buy them is a matter of grinding, which is never truly difficulty specific. And if you can obtain it without the grind, then it was easy enough in the first place.

 

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

I don't wish to go on about this forever, but what I am saying is really simple; Buying trophies can and most likely will break a lot of things and will ultimately cause the trophies to become meaningless altogether. I won't die when this would happen, but I'd rather not see it happen. I enjoy playing games and I enjoy completing the challenges that is tasks me with. 

[Wesley]

lol, this is still going on. My goodness. 

[daftprophet]

7 hours ago, Wanderer said:

1. It's only inferred is you're making baseless assumptions.

 

7 hours ago, Wanderer said:

2. Spending more time on trophies than me is a small indicator that you treat it more as a "job" than I do". When I say this trend needs to stop immediately, I have already given plenty of reasons. On the other hand, me having a 93 completion rate make it seem more of a "job" to me. I am basically trying to say that it makes no sense to think this of me.

Sure, and that's your assumption about me as well.  You don't know the facts of why I do what I do.   

 

7 hours ago, Wanderer said:

3. I have never seen anyone be an elitest to someone else about the trophies they have earnt. The argument about personal choice has already been discussed and debunked. Plenty of fools would pay for trophies and it would break the system. "Earning" them is not the same at all and I don't see how you can say that when I have explained the difference to you. Has nothing to do with subjectivity as there is a clear distinction. If you obtain a no death trophy by buying it, then you did not meet the requirement of the original trophy at all and you shouldn't feel justified. If you got them the way the trophy wants you to get it, then it's justified. 

It is a clear distinction.  Earning them is the same. Your last line was the exact point of my comment and you just confirmed it.  

 

7 hours ago, Wanderer said:

4. You are wrong because your arguments are not good arguments  Not because you have a different opinion. And yeah, you should think twice before assuming, because it's the lowest of the low when it comes to discussions. Discuss the things that you know rather than the things you think you know. 

Again, I'm not wrong.  I'm stating my opinions on the matter. 

 

7 hours ago, Wanderer said:

5. I will not support a game that features a cheap and potentially breaking feature, not only for this website, but for trophy hunters alike. As I stated before, if this becomes a thing, then obtaining trophies is meaningless as you would bypass their original requirement. This would muddy the waters as people can't tell if one did it legitmately or just bought them. Both ways you "earn" them. But as I said before, there is earning them and earning them.

I know that rarity and difficulty don't go hand in hand, which is not the point that I am making. But enabling players to buy trophies significantly decreases the difficulty. As obtaining money to buy them is a matter of grinding, which is never truly difficulty specific. And if you can obtain it without the grind, then it was easy enough in the first place.

That's fine that you don't support it, and neither do I.  I just find it hilarious.  Fact.

 

Again, YOU wouldn't bypass.  you COULD, but that is your choice.  You also keep trying to split up the word earn incorrectly.

 

I wasn't really applying the rarity to the thread in discussion.  More of a general statement. 

 

7 hours ago, Wanderer said:

I don't wish to go on about this forever, but what I am saying is really simple; Buying trophies can and most likely will break a lot of things and will ultimately cause the trophies to become meaningless altogether. I won't die when this would happen, but I'd rather not see it happen. I enjoy playing games and I enjoy completing the challenges that is tasks me with. 

Yeah, me neither.  You've clearly made your point as I have mine.  But I'll end with this, they might be meaningless to you and a few others, but I personally wouldn't consider them meaningless if and when I earn them.  I'm sure there are others that feel this way as well.  

 

[Stardroid]

17 minutes ago, daftprophet said:

 

Sure, and that's your assumption about me as well.  You don't know the facts of why I do what I do.   

 

It is a clear distinction.  Earning them is the same. Your last line was the exact point of my comment and you just confirmed it.  

 

Again, I'm not wrong.  I'm stating my opinions on the matter. 

 

That's fine that you don't support it, and neither do I.  I just find it hilarious.  Fact.

 

Again, YOU wouldn't bypass.  you COULD, but that is your choice.  You also keep trying to split up the word earn incorrectly.

 

I wasn't really applying the rarity to the thread in discussion.  More of a general statement. 

 

Yeah, me neither.  You've clearly made your point as I have mine.  But I'll end with this, they might be meaningless to you and a few others, but I personally wouldn't consider them meaningless if and when I earn them.  I'm sure there are others that feel this way as well.  

 

1. Which is why I clarified that I did not make that assumption. It was only to prove the point that these assumptions are baseless. 

2. I have to explain the distinction a third time now as you really don't seem to get the point. If you do drugs and win a cycling competition and win, you technically also earned the trophy. But did he really EARN it? No, he didn't. This distinction really isn't difficult to comprehend.

3. Your opinion is wrong, but I have to repeat myself only to be dumbfounded that you fall for the same trap over and over again, even though I am pointing it out ...

4. Splitting up the word incorrectly is not something I did as it is a legit thing to point out, as is demonstrated by the bycicle competition. Come on man, this is something someone from an elementary school learns. Giving players the option to bypass it is WRONG. As there is NO WAY TO DETERMINE WHO DID IT LEGITMATELY. How many times must I repeat this? I have given you the potential consequences of this. It does not matter of people have that choice, they shouldn't have that choice. 

5. To give the example of Super Meat Boy again. It's a prestigious platinum trophy, we can both agree to that. From the moment you implement a way to earn currency by completing levels and enable people to buy no death run trophies with that currency, you destroy all merrit and prestige in that platinum. It becomes meaningless, useless. Yes, you can get it legitmately yourself, but nobody really knows for sure unless you record it. It's pure chaos and stupidity.

[SnowxSakura]

2 minutes ago, Wanderer said:

1. Which is why I clarified that I did not make that assumption. It was only to prove the point that these assumptions are baseless. 

2. I have to explain the distinction a third time now as you really don't seem to get the point. If you do drugs and win a cycling competition and win, you technically also earned the trophy. But did he really EARN it? No, he didn't. This distinction really isn't difficult to comprehend.

3. Your opinion is wrong, but I have to repeat myself only to be dumbfounded that you fall for the same trap over and over again, even though I am pointing it out ...

4. Splitting up the word incorrectly is not something I did as it is a legit thing to point out, as is demonstrated by the bycicle competition. Come on man, this is something someone from an elementary school learns. Giving players the option to bypass it is WRONG. As there is NO WAY TO DETERMINE WHO DID IT LEGITMATELY. How many times must I repeat this? I have given you the potential consequences of this. It does not matter of people have that choice, they shouldn't have that choice. 

5. To give the example of Super Meat Boy again. It's a prestigious platinum trophy, we can both agree to that. From the moment you implement a way to earn currency by completing levels and enable people to buy no death run trophies with that currency, you destroy all merrit and prestige in that platinum. It becomes meaningless, useless. Yes, you can get it legitmately yourself, but nobody really knows for sure unless you record it. It's pure chaos and stupidity.

The fact you're unwilling to respect someone elses opinion and tell them they're wrong makes any argument you have completely moot.

[Stardroid]

3 minutes ago, SnowxSakura said:

The fact you're unwilling to respect someone elses opinion and tell them they're wrong makes any argument you have completely moot.

I don't think you understand how this argument thing works. You can call argument wrong and point out what is wrong about them. On the other hand, asking mandetory respect for arguments is not the way to go. It makes me cry that people can be this oblivous to simple logic. This is 1 plus 1 is 2 stuff. But I will listen to your advice. Next time I have an argument, I'll say "I respect your opinion, now let's paint rainbows and pretent rational discourse does not exist before we hurt each other's feelings". 

 

Also, thinking a point if moot for saying someone is wrong is perhaps the dumbest thing I've read all month. But it's a long time before it ends. I'm sorry to be so brute with you, but seriously what are you doing, dude?

Edited March 10, 2017 by Wanderer

[SnowxSakura]

2 minutes ago, Wanderer said:

I don't think you understand how this argument thing works. You can call argument wrong and point out what is wrong about them. On the other hand, asking mandetory respect for arguments is not the way to go. It makes me cry that people can be this oblivous to simple logic. This is 1 plus 1 is 2 stuff. But I will listen to your advice. Next time I have an argument, I'll say "I respect your opinion, now let's paint rainbows and pretent rational discourse does not exist before we hurt each other's feelings". 

 

Also, thinking a point if moot for saying someone is wrong is perhaps the dumbest thing I've read all month. But it's a long time before it ends. I'm sorry to be so brute with you, but seriously what are you doing, dude?

You can respect an opinion without agreeing with it at the same time, it's called having basic manners that you seem to completely lack. Daftprophet's opinion isn't wrong, and neither is yours on this matter, the only difference is the lack of civility coming from your end.

[Stardroid]

10 minutes ago, SnowxSakura said:

You can respect an opinion without agreeing with it at the same time, it's called having basic manners that you seem to completely lack. Daftprophet's opinion isn't wrong, and neither is yours on this matter, the only difference is the lack of civility coming from your end.

So, where did I call his opinion stupid without telling why? When did I neglect what he said? Never. I never insulted his personality. I think you like to pretend I am this evil villain who hurts people's feelings on purpose. His opinion is wrong and I have demonstrated why I think his opinion is wrong. You on the other hand, have shared no such thing are are convaluting a discussion with your moralist crap. Opinions don't require respect at all. People who ask for such things usually have nothing interesting to say in the first place.

 

Just to put this disclaimer out there. I have zero tolerance for people who spent more time being hurt by not "respecting" opinions rather than giving them. People who put more weight on someone calling an opinion wrong, rather than valuing the reasons that person gave for thinking an opinion is wrong. I see it all the time in classrooms. This is teenage argumentative skills. If you want to have a discussion, I will never treat you like you're an infant by "respecting" your opinion. If I think the opinion lacks nuance and is frankly stupid, I will say so and not reduce you to a pathetic little child who needs protection from those evil opinions. Stop degrading yourself to this infantile level. He did not need your moralist support. It's even worse when people like you pretend I am holding people are point blank of a gun. I never even insulted for crying out loud and you're acting like I put his house on fire. Get a grip, man, seriously. I will never respect an opnion for the sake of having respect for it. This is the final word I will spend on this.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Wanderer

[Dav9834]

Whew man Wanderer is livid! 

 

As fun as this is to read, it's time a mod just came and deleted the argument as it's now turned into something that is not as much about the OP, but rather what constitutes an argument. 

 

And Wanderer really? Comparing trophy buying by the developer to drugs? 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2017 by Dav9834

[daftprophet]

49 minutes ago, Wanderer said:

1. Which is why I clarified that I did not make that assumption. It was only to prove the point that these assumptions are baseless. 

2. I have to explain the distinction a third time now as you really don't seem to get the point. If you do drugs and win a cycling competition and win, you technically also earned the trophy. But did he really EARN it? No, he didn't. This distinction really isn't difficult to comprehend.

3. Your opinion is wrong, but I have to repeat myself only to be dumbfounded that you fall for the same trap over and over again, even though I am pointing it out ...

4. Splitting up the word incorrectly is not something I did as it is a legit thing to point out, as is demonstrated by the bycicle competition. Come on man, this is something someone from an elementary school learns. Giving players the option to bypass it is WRONG. As there is NO WAY TO DETERMINE WHO DID IT LEGITMATELY. How many times must I repeat this? I have given you the potential consequences of this. It does not matter of people have that choice, they shouldn't have that choice. 

5. To give the example of Super Meat Boy again. It's a prestigious platinum trophy, we can both agree to that. From the moment you implement a way to earn currency by completing levels and enable people to buy no death run trophies with that currency, you destroy all merrit and prestige in that platinum. It becomes meaningless, useless. Yes, you can get it legitmately yourself, but nobody really knows for sure unless you record it. It's pure chaos and stupidity.

 

Wow.  Now you're insulting my intelligence? Word.  

 

I only care anymore to point out that the distinction between the word earn is wrong.  I clearly stated that if you fulfill the requirements of the trophy by buying them, you didn't earn it.  If you did by doing the in game requirements legitimately, you earned it. That is very clear man.  Please stop using wrong analogies.  The drug analogy would be the person buying the trophy to UNLOCK it.  A person who didn't use the drug and won, unlocked it by doing the requirements legitimately, earning it.

 

Also, the bolded is easy peasy.  Look at the earned times?  I mean, I guess you could spread them out and make the times look accurate but whatever. 

 

Thanks.

 

Yes, this has gotten out of hand but still should be seen. I'm done with it now anyway.  I feel I've been civil enough. 

Edited March 10, 2017 by daftprophet
wrong use of word "earn", unlock more appropriate.

[Stardroid]

1 minute ago, daftprophet said:

 

Wow.  Now you're insulting my intelligence? Word.  

 

I only care anymore to point out that the distinction between the word earn is wrong.  I clearly stated that if you fulfill the requirements of the trophy by buying them, you didn't earn it.  If you did by doing the in game requirements legitimately, you earned it. That is very clear man.  Please stop using wrong analogies.  The drug analogy would be the person buying the trophy to earn it.  A person who didn't use the drug and won, earned it the very same way as doing the requirements legitimately.

 

Also, the bolded is easy peasy.  Look at the earned times?  I mean, I guess you could spread them out and make the times look accurate but whatever. 

 

Thanks.

 

Yes, this has gotten out of hand but still should be seen. I'm done with it now anyway.  I feel I've been civil enough. 

No, I did not insult your intelligence, I am speaking about your opinion. If I call an opinion stupid, it means the opnion is stupid, not the person. However, when having to explain it three times, then it does raise some questions. Then if you had already made that disctinction, then what are you arguing against, exactly? An analogy is to demonstrate a point, it does not have to be the same verb or actions, at all. A person who used the drug cheated the system, but that is also not the point. The point of the analogy is to demonstrate that both people "earned" it, but the person who took drugs, obviously didn't really earn it. Again, logic 101, analogies 101. And you could indeed spread them, and thus there is no way to tell - again. In this post, you agreed to the points I made earlier, so I have no idea what you are arguing against here. Including the "earning" part. 

By the way, you stated that obtaining trophies by bying them is ALSO earning them. And that is where I gave you the disction. You made a complete 180. Thanks.

[daftprophet]

2 minutes ago, Wanderer said:

No, I did not insult your intelligence, I am speaking about your opinion. If I call an opinion stupid, it means the opnion is stupid, not the person. However, when having to explain it three times, then it does raise some questions. Then if you had already made that disctinction, then what are you arguing against, exactly? An analogy is to demonstrate a point, it does not have to be the same verb or actions, at all. A person who used the drug cheated the system, but that is also not the point. The point of the analogy is to demonstrate that both people "earned" it, but the person who took drugs, obviously didn't really earn it. Again, logic 101, analogies 101. And you could indeed spread them, and thus there is no way to tell - again. In this post, you agreed to the points I made earlier, so I have no idea what you are arguing against here. Including the "earning" part. 

By the way, you stated that obtaining trophies by bying them is ALSO earning them. And that is where I gave you the disction. You made a complete 180. Thanks.

 

No, you're right. They didn't earn it, they unlocked it.  Clarified.

 

Look, i'm trying to explain it to you as well, which you don't seem to get either, but I have not insulted you about it. Just stating I don't think it's right. 

Edited March 10, 2017 by daftprophet

[Satoshi Ookami]

Can't we talk about butts again?

[Parker]

Alright guys, your points have been made and the discussion isn't going anywhere so lets move on. 

 

 

Parker

[daftprophet]

3 minutes ago, Satoshi Ookami said:

Can't we talk about butts again?

I have that to look forward to. Thanks for the reminder