Rarity Leaderboard

[walafc0]

One thing that could be done is to update every user that has not been updated for at least one/two year(s). That would improve a lot all stats on game owners, trophies and so on. I would be curious to know how many users it represents.

Edited March 3, 2021 by walafc0

[MMDE]

I recently did some testing with one of the algorithms I posted the point results of before.

 

Tomy_IV:2006363
OJ9999vr:890793
ikemenzi:802433
MMDE:627138
bbaauuiiss97:355561

 

https://www.psnprofiles.com/Tomy_IV (world 834)

https://www.psnprofiles.com/OJ9999vr (world 4214)

https://www.psnprofiles.com/ikemenzi (world 2)

https://www.psnprofiles.com/MMDE (world 1485)

https://www.psnprofiles.com/bbaauuiiss97 (world 476)

 

Yeah, I tested people from my own country.  (other than world #2)

Just to give some perspective, on truetrophies, where you are given additional points for rarity, ikemenzi has 2.75 times as many points as Tomy_IV, with this system Tomy_IV has 2.5 times as many points as ikemenzi. Tomy_IV's trophies, compared to truetrophies way of counting them, are worth almost 7 times as much. The difference is way larger compared to normal PSNP points leaderboard.

EDIT:

I did more:
 

zajac9999:3814828
B1rvine:584704

https://www.psnprofiles.com/zajac9999 (world 1729)

https://www.psnprofiles.com/B1rvine (world 11850)

Edited March 24, 2021 by MMDE

[MMDE]

 

So, what do people think about the results shown so far?

[DrBloodmoney]

34 minutes ago, MMDE said:

 

So, what do people think about the results shown so far?

 

Sure 

 

Why not?

 

 

I mean, any metric used to come up with any custom leaderboards will end up making some folks happy and some folks not so, but I can see what you are going for, and itmakes sense in the context of what factors you are applying.

 

Realistically - I doubt it's actually possible for any amount of your hard work to satisfy the desires outlines in these kind of request threads though.

Once an algorithm is being applied, - any algorithm -  it will become open to endless complaints and requests for adjustment anyways.

 

In the end, even on sites that do use multiple custom boards, the only one that is really referenced in any meaningful way on trophy cards / profiles / around the site etc. is the real one.

The others are more just interesting tid-bits of info at best, or smokescreens to placate a minority contingent at worst.

 

 

Not to be facetious, but...

...wouldn't the simplest way to settle this type of thread once and for all be to simply look at who the are the 10 or 20 biggest, most vocal proponents of a custom leaderboard, and just tailor the algorithm in such a way as to apply such massively exponential multiplying factors to the commonalities of their specific profiles, that all of them end up at the top of it?

 

 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2021 by DrBloodmoney

[MMDE]

14 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

Sure 

 

Why not?

 

 

I mean, any metric used to come up with any custom leaderboards will end up making some folks happy and some folks not so, but I can see what you are going for, and itmakes sense in the context of what factors you are applying.

 

Realistically - I doubt it's actually possible for any amount of your hard work to satisfy the desires outlines in these kind of request threads though.

Once an algorithm is being applied, - any algorithm -  it will become open to endless complaints and requests for adjustment anyways.

 

In the end, even on sites that do use multiple custom boards, the only one that is really referenced in any meaningful way on trophy cards / profiles / around the site etc. is the real one.

The others are more just interesting tid-bits of info at best, or smokescreens to placate a minority contingent at worst.

 

 

Not to be facetious, but...

...wouldn't the simplest way to settle this type of thread once and for all be to simply look at who the are the 10 or 20 biggest, most vocal proponents of a custom leaderboard, and just tailor the algorithm in such a way as to apply exponential multiplying factors to the commonalities of their specific profiles, so all of them end up at the top of it?

 

 

 

 

 

The last part of what you write is kind of what I aim for here. I'm making a system I think makes sense, and then seeing if it does accomplish what it sets out to do, and I'm hoping to get feedback from vocal proponents. I've talked to a couple, at least one I talked to seemed very happy.

 

I do however think some people don't realize how many rare trophies some of the top guys have as well, it's not just EZPZ stuff. People like Hakoom will likely not be swapping positions. He has over 2000 URs, that alone puts him ahead of most of the leaderboard, and then you can add all the very rare, rare and uncommons, and you get som serious outclassing of most.

Edited March 24, 2021 by MMDE

[Danny_Johansen]

34 minutes ago, MMDE said:

 

So, what do people think about the results shown so far?

 

The results seem good. It does reward the UR trophies with significant more points and that is great. At this point we should implement it to get a better picture of it. After a couple weeks we can swap it for a different suggestion to compare and after testing a couple of the suggestions we can have a final voting on what to use. Trying out a new scoring system is the best way to move forward with this leaderboard even if it isn't "perfect".

 

[MMDE]

1 minute ago, Danny_Johansen said:

 

The results seem good. It does reward the UR trophies with significant more points and that is great. At this point we should implement it to get a better picture of it. After a couple weeks we can swap it for a different suggestion to compare and after testing a couple of the suggestions we can have a final voting on what to use. Trying out a new scoring system is the best way to move forward with this leaderboard even if it isn't "perfect".

 

 

I get you want to test different ones, but it takes a significant amount of time to update all profiles etc. I believe there's some caching involved at different stages. It's all "local" though, so shouldn't be too big of an issue, but I imagine it's not something Sly wants to do.

Edited March 24, 2021 by MMDE

[DrBloodmoney]

10 minutes ago, MMDE said:

I do however think some people don't realize how many rare trophies some of the top guys have as well, it's not just EZPZ stuff. People like Hakoom will likely not be swapping positions. He has over 2000 URs, that alone puts him ahead of most of the leaderboard, and then you can add all the very rare, rare and uncommons, and you get som serious outclassing of most.

 

I don't doubt it - PSNTL has 4 boards, and the same folks are at the top, or near the top on all 4.

 

 

10 minutes ago, MMDE said:

 

The last part of what you write is kind of what I aim for here. I'm making a system I think makes sense, and then seeing if it does accomplish what it sets out to do, and I'm hoping to get feedback from vocal proponents. I've talked to a couple, at least one I talked to seemed very happy.

 

 

TBH, you could probably achieve the same results by just creating a 'Walled-Garden' leaderboard with just those specific 20 people on it.

Don't call it a 'Rarity Leaderboard', just call it the 'Very Special Exclusive Club Leaderboard for Very Special People' - that way they can all brag about being in the top 20, and no one needs to start trying to fudge the numbers with maths at all ?

 

 

[MMDE]

Fugl7 would get 956856 points, yes, that's more than both ikemenzi and OJ.

https://psnprofiles.com/Fugl7 (world 4599)

I can scan you too Danny... 

 

7 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

TBH, you could probably achieve the same results by just creating a 'Walled-Garden' leaderboard with just those specific 20 people on it.

Don't call it a 'Rarity Leaderboard', just call it the 'Very Special Exclusive Club Leaderboard for Very Special People' - that way they can all brag about being in the top 20, and no one needs to start trying to fudge the numbers with maths at all 

 

 

 

I think the issue is related to counting how much each trophy is worth etc. I could be wrong though, but I think there's some caching involved there.

 

7 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

I don't doubt it - PSNTL has 4 boards, and the same folks are at the top, or near the top on all 4.

 

Maybe, but Ike has same position on TT, while here he'd drop down significantly, even below people all the way down at world 4599.

Edited March 24, 2021 by MMDE

[JoesusHCrust]

4 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

Lots of long words

 

'Very Special Exclusive Club Leaderboard for Very Special People' ?

 

Man, this is golddust! And MMDE and others having a total culture clash and it sailing right over their heads is the cherry on top. 

 

You're doing our country/the Queen/Nicola Sturgeon/God (delete as appropriate) proud

 

A*

[MMDE]

@Danny_Johansen , I scanned you as well.

 

You'd be ahead of zajac9999, up at 4312727 points. Yes, over twice that of Tomy_IV, and you're world 10939.

[MMDE]

 

 

Actually... I think there might be a small surprise in store for all of you, something that makes me want to say I really like what I'm seeing. Will update you all when I got the final numbers.  

[hBLOXs]

I’d just be happy to have a leaderboard on which I make upwards progress again.

Rather than being overtaken by 20 Rat-pics-a-powgie fiends while I’m clearing only the mp portion of rdr2. ?

[MMDE]

41 minutes ago, hBLOXs said:

I’d just be happy to have a leaderboard on which I make upwards progress again.

Rather than being overtaken by 20 Rat-pics-a-powgie fiends while I’m clearing only the mp portion of rdr2.

 

hehe, the final numbers are not in yet, but I think Hakoom will end up at around 3.1 mill points. Zajac is at 3.8 mill and Danny at 4.3 mill. Not sure how much "upwards progress" you will have, but the upside is, Danny is currently not even in the top 10 000 and here he'd be 39% ahead of Hakoom.

 

What I did discover with Hakoom was, his R were worth 25% of his UR+VR, and his UC seems to be worth around 25% of his R.

Edited March 24, 2021 by MMDE

[zajac9999]

3 minutes ago, MMDE said:

 

hehe, the final numbers are not in yet, but I think Hakoom will end up at around 3.1 mill points. Zack is at 3.8 mill and Danny at 4.3 mill. Not sure how much "upwards progress" you will have, but the upside is, Danny is currently not in the top 10 000...

Who is Zack?

 

Also the numbers look fine. I'm honestly happy to have anything that seems fairly reasonable at this point lol. At long as I can understand why someone is ahead of or behind me, then I'm happy enough. 

Edited March 24, 2021 by zajac9999

[MMDE]

2 minutes ago, zajac9999 said:

Who is Zack?

 

Also the numbers look fine. I'm honestly happy to have anything that seems fairly reasonable at this point lol. At long as I can understand why someone is ahead of or behind me, then I'm happy enough. 

 

Zack is a typo, that's who he is.

[hBLOXs]

Yeah, I’m fully behind the top players still being pretty close to the top. They belong there.

 

I meant “upwards progress” as in being ranked among gamers rather than 7 months old lvl 790 accounts with 2 (accidental) URs.

 

I’ll be happy about ANY alternative you come up with.

[Sword]

@DrBloodmoney I mean the "official" leaderboard here is just a custom leaderboard after all anyway. It's not like it's following any official "leaderboard" by Sony or anything.  

 

Also I don't quite agree with the sarcasm of the rarity leaderboard. I mean, yeah it's a "custom" leaderboard that tries to promote rarity over just ezpz's, but honestly isn't giving people more options to play around with a good thing? And it ain't just the 10-20 people who are most vocal about it that want to see change made, there's been a lot of people that want more options but just haven't said anything because they didn't think anything would ever happen so... 

 

Those statements always weird me out because it's like "Well, it's just custom anyway so why does it matter? Might as well not do anything since we can't satisfy everyone."... and then nothing ever changes, yet again, and we're left with nothing that even TRIES to be done. 

 

However I do agree, you can't form a solution that will appeal to everyone but at least there can be something offered that offers an alternative to just... ezpz point hoarding. 

 

At the end of it though it comes down to human ego and wanting to be "better" than someone else. So everyone would want a custom set of rules that puts them at the top and everyone else at the bottom. For me as long as there is a rarity leaderboard option, it would honestly make me stop playing these ezpz's all together because there would FINALLY be an option that would give me progress for grindy games instead of needing to "keep up with the Jones" on every 6 stack that releases (utterly ridiculous way of climbing the leaderboard, complete waste of what gaming should be imo).

____________________________________________

 

Anyway, I think it's great that the algorithm seems to be working and I'm all for it. At the very least it's a better way to recognize the people in the community that prioritize rarer trophies over the easier ones and I think that's pretty cool. 

 

As mentioned though, some of these guys have been at this hobby for 12+ years and if the objective is just "let's boot out the top current players!" some of them may surprise you by what they accomplished before the ezpz era...  

[Bezenko]

Glad to see this thread somewhat active even four years later. Have Sly even commented on this the last few years? He did create the original beta rarity leaderboard so I guess there was hope of seeing this properly implemented at one point. Just curious if this has any chance of still happening or is this thread just sharing and discussing algorithms?

[MMDE]

4 minutes ago, Bezenko said:

Glad to see this thread somewhat active even four years later. Have Sly even commented on this the last few years? He did create the original beta rarity leaderboard so I guess there was hope of seeing this properly implemented at one point. Just curious if this has any chance of still happening or is this thread just sharing and discussing algorithms?

 

I've spoken to Sly myself, and it is as I said before, it's just about coming to an agreement about what we want to see, and me being a perfectionist about it and not really having that much time lately. lulz

[DrBloodmoney]

3 minutes ago, Sword said:

@DrBloodmoney I mean the "official" leaderboard here is just a custom leaderboard after all anyway. It's not like it's following any official "leaderboard" by Sony or anything.  

 

Also I don't quite agree with the sarcasm of the rarity leaderboard. I mean, yeah it's a "custom" leaderboard that tries to promote rarity over just ezpz's, but honestly isn't giving people more options to play around with a good thing? And it ain't just the 10-20 people who are most vocal about it that want to see change made, there's been a lot of people that want more options but just haven't said anything because they didn't think anything would ever happen so... 

 

Those statements always weird me out because it's like "Well, it's just custom anyway so why does it matter? Might as well not do anything since we can't satisfy everyone."... and then nothing ever changes, yet again, and we're left with nothing that even TRIES to be done. 

 

However I do agree, you can't form a solution that will appeal to everyone but at least there can be something offered that offers an alternative to just... ezpz point hoarding. 

 

At the end of it though it comes down to human ego and wanting to be "better" than someone else. So everyone would want a custom set of rules that puts them at the top and everyone else at the bottom. For me as long as there is a rarity leaderboard option, it would honestly make me stop playing these ezpz's all together because there would FINALLY be an option that would give me progress for grindy games instead of needing to "keep up with the Jones" on every 6 stack that releases (utterly ridiculous way of climbing the leaderboard, complete waste of what gaming should be imo).

 

Hey man, I get it. 

 

Nothing you say is incorrect or objectionable, and I'm certainly not trying to piss in anyone's chips.

 

Like I said in my post, I'm not against the idea of other leaderboards as a curiosity (I think there's a post somewhere waaaaaaay back near the beginning of this thread where I said basically that - or possibly on another similar thread), and I'm all for different uses of the data for the sake of pure interest. I'm someone who stands to benefit in LB position of virtually any custom board that comes along, as far as I can tell.

 

My thing with the 'alt' LB's is just that - well - they do exist already - on other sites, such as PSNTL.

For all that they can be interesting, (and maybe a nice ego massage every now and then - like I said, this isn't me trying to safeguard my place on the main leaderboard -  I am significantly higher placed on every custom board over there than their main one) - but I still just don't think they really matter.

 

MMDE seems to be busting his balls trying to come up with solutions for this stuff - and God bless him for it, it's a complicated task under extremely difficult criteria.

 

I'd love to be optimistic about what would happen if a bunch of custom LB's came here, but I can pretty much see where I think this is headed:

A list of never-ending 'dispute' threads asking for the algorithm to be changed, a big pissing contest over which Leaderboard has the most 'important' placements, and a whole lot of ammunition for the kind of elitists who sniff and moan and tut-tut every time I begin an 'easy' game, as if I am doing it as a personal affront to their exquisite trophy-sniffing palate.

[scemopagliaccioh]

I like MMDE's formula, but I would like to see it expanded, if we were to ever have a rarity  leaderboard, that is.

I don't  mean to remove the standard  leaderboard, but maybe have an option to showcase the type of leaderboard  you want in your own profile, and have something tell you how many points X game you're visiting in that moment has.

[eduardohrks]

19 minutes ago, hBLOXs said:

Yeah, I’m fully behind the top players still being pretty close to the top. They belong there.

 

I meant “upwards progress” as in being ranked among gamers rather than 7 months old lvl 790 accounts with 2 (accidental) URs.

 

I’ll be happy about ANY alternative you come up with.

Same here with me, anything is better than pure points, trophies do not have the same value in reality.

Time to give some love to the hard working folk out there, not talking about myself, there are many formidable players way better than me when it comes to difficulty. They deserve better than being overshadowed by these newcomers with hundreds of 24 hours plats.

Really, people talk so much about e-sports nowadays, but imagine there are people out there capable of the most impressive feats on different games ! To me that is equally as impressive, credit should be given when due, but these players never seen to have a deserved recognition on the leaderboards.

 

[MMDE]

The ones I've looked at so far:

[HusKy]

5 minutes ago, MMDE said:

The ones I've looked at so far:

 

Scan this profile: https://psnprofiles.com/Warped_Tonttu