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Star Wars: The Last Jedi

105 posts in this topic

 

And the poster for those interested.

 

Px4DpOo.jpg

 

And Trailer #2

 

 

Edited by hugglebunn-e
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Did Luke just say "it's time for the Jedi to end"? D: Does that mean he is turning to the Dark side? I guess it's a like father like son thing. :D That could explain why the title is red aka the color of the Sith. :hmm:

Edited by marvelboy10
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1 minute ago, marvelboy10 said:

Did Luke just say "it's time for the Jedi to end"? D: Does that mean he is turning to the Dark side? I guess it's a like father like son thing. :D That could explain why the title is Red aka the color of the Sith. :hmm:

 

I took it to mean the Jedi are relics and it's time to figure out something better.

 

Perhaps they'll create an order that uses both light and dark, but still for good?

 

Anyway, no doubt it's going to be awesome.

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A balance of the Dark/Light sides actually makes sense. One cannot exist without the other.

 

December can't come fast enough.

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It's time for the Jedi to end and balance between light and darkness?? This gives me ''green'' ending vibes

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I'm re watching all the movies in anticipation; i'm up to Return of the Jedi. I love the sort of strange contradictory nature of the light/dark side of the force like how Luke channels the dark side for the light to prevail, that sort of thing. This seems like a similar play on that subject matter, we might be seeing some Gray force users here.

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In the novel for episode VII the preface not so subtly says that the time for Jedi and Sith is over and that instead the concept of Grey Jedi will be important.

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9 minutes ago, Karlsson89 said:

In the novel for episode VII the preface not so subtly says that the time for Jedi and Sith is over and that instead the concept of Grey Jedi will be important.

 

Well, the movie itself was already hinting at that with Rey being very aggressive in her Jedi techniques. We don't see it as such these days but back when Return Of The Jedi was released, Luke choking the Gamorreans and mind controlling Bib were supposed to make the audience wonder if he has turned to the dark side like Vader did. True, Obi-Wan did some mind control as well on stormtroopers but that was very passive and in self-defence, while Luke used it to gain entry somewhere.

 

Side note, it's kind of funny how we only ever see mind control work on those poor stormtroopers and Bib while the only other instances are with creatures whom it apparently doesn't affect (Jabba and Watto).

 

Personally I like the idea of blending light and dark, the Jedi always seemed too archaic in their views to me (and the prequels with their "can't marry, can't have possessions, but we do kidnap children" religion shit made it even look worse, like a cult that deserved to end) but the Sith are too bent on using the Force for their own good. I'd say dipping into the dark side if it's for a good purpose could be allowed. For instance, in the old canon there was something like Vaapad - a lightsaber combat technique that was very aggressive and brought its user close to the dark side.

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2 hours ago, BillyHorrible said:

 

Well, the movie itself was already hinting at that with Rey being very aggressive in her Jedi techniques. We don't see it as such these days but back when Return Of The Jedi was released, Luke choking the Gamorreans and mind controlling Bib were supposed to make the audience wonder if he has turned to the dark side like Vader did. True, Obi-Wan did some mind control as well on stormtroopers but that was very passive and in self-defence, while Luke used it to gain entry somewhere.

 

Side note, it's kind of funny how we only ever see mind control work on those poor stormtroopers and Bib while the only other instances are with creatures whom it apparently doesn't affect (Jabba and Watto).

 

Personally I like the idea of blending light and dark, the Jedi always seemed too archaic in their views to me (and the prequels with their "can't marry, can't have possessions, but we do kidnap children" religion shit made it even look worse, like a cult that deserved to end) but the Sith are too bent on using the Force for their own good. I'd say dipping into the dark side if it's for a good purpose could be allowed. For instance, in the old canon there was something like Vaapad - a lightsaber combat technique that was very aggressive and brought its user close to the dark side.

Hmm, it depends on how it's done. I have strong reservations about blending the Light and Dark Sides, so if that is where the new trilogy is going, I really hope it's believable. When I first read about the "Gray Jedi" on Wookiepedia (long after I had stopped reading SW novels), I thought it was a really stupid idea. I'm not dead-set against the concept if it is done well, but from what I read of those books, it just sounded dumb... like most of the novels in general. I'm so glad that the pre-Disney ones are now officially completely non-canon. I haven't read any of the new ones, so maybe they're just as bad. 

 

That being said, I did like the Timothy Zahn series, and some of the X-Wing books were okay, but the whole "not the SW version of Star Trek's Borg" aliens that invaded and led to Chewie getting killed... just no. 

 

The prequels and Clone Wars series show some of the failings of the Jedi, it's pretty obvious by this point that they are not perfect. But their intentions were unquestionably in the right place, so I hope the new trilogy doesn't go down the road of "evil does not exist" relativism. I'm not saying the idea is not interesting outside of Star Wars, but it's not what SW is about. It's always been about a clash between good and evil, selflessness versus selfishness, etc. I can't see a plot twist of "the Jedi were just as bad as the Sith" working. I'm already having a hard time accepting that Kylo Ren could be redeemed at the end after what happened to my beloved Han Solo! :)

 

As for Luke flirting with the Dark Side, I always took that to be a result of his actions in Empire Strikes Back, when he abandoned his training with Yoda to save his friends. Of course the movie was supposed to make people guess about his intentions in the beginning, that much is true. But I like to think there's an in-universe reason for it. Anyway, when it came down to it, Luke chose to not fight and kill his father and risked death in doing so, which is probably the most "Light Side" action we've ever seen in the movies (although Han confronting his son with parental love and selflessness and dying for it, is right up there as well!), and I would argue he was a better example of "good" at that point than the Jedi were during the Clone Wars, when they had sort of lost sight of their actual purpose. 

 

I was a bit worried when Mark Hamill said he needed some convincing about Luke's character in The Last Jedi... hopefully it's not as crazy as I think but we'll see in 8 months. I'm excited nonetheless. 

Edited by MosesRockefeller
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Make Luke go crazy, and use the Joker laugh, insta-win.

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Tickets have gone on sale today.

 

... I reserved tickets for the first screening on Wednesday, for Friday night and two on Sunday. That should do the trick for the first week.

 

My unlimited cinepass rules.

 

... I actually went to Force Awakens a dozen times, as I was in between jobs at the moment (had already signed a contract for January) and I felt like having a bit of fun, it was the first new Star Wars in a decade. I had a job during Rogue One but I still managed to go see it for over five times. It depends on the first four viewings of The Last Jedi if I want to see it more often. 

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Goddamn this movie is awesome!

 

Don't worry, I know the new meme...

 

aOBL9vv_460s.jpg

 

Nevertheless, this topic might be the place to discuss the movie, as it already has the fitting name (instead of just "teaser" or something). Let's put everything we say in spoiler boxes though, for those who didn't see it yet.

 

WARNING: DON'T OPEN SPOILERS FROM HERE ON OUT IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN THE MOVIE YET.

 

Spoiler

Finally, a Star Wars movie that tries something new again. They said the movie would be "weird", and that wasn't a lie. I liked it a lot though, it hit many notes for me that The Force Awakens missed. Most importantly more vehicle shots and more saber combat but it was also a gripping stoey. All in all, The Force Awakens feels more like a 'reboot' a new beginning, and like all origin movies it moved a bit slower.

 

I was a bit weirded out by the Yoda puppet, but I blame the prequels for making me expect a CGI Yoda. Of course, the puppet fits much better with the original trilogy.

 

I like where they're going with the Force, and what we're shown people can do with it. The EU books already explored some of the stuff but we hadn't seen that much in the movies yet. Let's remember that it's supposed to be wizardry in space, not just fancy swords, levitation, and mind tricks.

 

All in all, the movie feels a lot like a set-up to a legacy - there's always good, there's always bad. Heroes on both sides will rise and fall, and become legends in the process.

 

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Watched it last night.  A lot of stuff I was not expecting.  Not a perfect movie but very, very enjoyable.  Still not sure how I feel about the end.  Bring on Epidode IX!

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I have no quarrel with anyone that likes this movie.  To each his own.  Simply put, this movie was/is not for me.  However, I am curious.  Who exactly are the filmmakers saying is the last Jedi?  I won't spend $12 to find out, but I'm sure someone here will be happy to oblige me.

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20 minutes ago, Bilpe said:

I have no quarrel with anyone that likes this movie.  To each his own.  Simply put, this movie was/is not for me.  However, I am curious.  Who exactly are the filmmakers saying is the last Jedi?  I won't spend $12 to find out, but I'm sure someone here will be happy to oblige me.

 

Spoiler

The director's intent is that it refers to Luke Skywalker, who is the last Jedi when the film starts, and was called the last Jedi in the opening crawl of The Force Awakens. Many non-English speaking countries have translated the title into plural - "Jedi" can be singular or plural but many non-English languages have singular and plural versions of "the last".

 

Do you like Star Wars in general and have a bad feeling about this one? I'm curious as you are posting in a thread specifically for a Star Wars movie you say you're not interested in.

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33 minutes ago, Pickle Rick said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

The director's intent is that it refers to Luke Skywalker, who is the last Jedi when the film starts, and was called the last Jedi in the opening crawl of The Force Awakens. Many non-English speaking countries have translated the title into plural - "Jedi" can be singular or plural but many non-English languages have singular and plural versions of "the last".

 

Do you like Star Wars in general and have a bad feeling about this one? I'm curious as you are posting in a thread specifically for a Star Wars movie you say you're not interested in.

I have been a Star Wars fan since 1977.  I was disappointed in TFA and hoping that TLJ would be a course correction.  After reading a few reviews, I decided that it was not going in a direction I cared for.  Therefore I chose not to support the movie by not giving them my money.  I was, however, curious about Luke Skywalker.  It is difficult to divest oneself of feelings for a character that you have been invested in for 41 years.  Again, I have no issues with anyone that thinks the movie is great, I just don't feel as though I need to see it.

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What did you like about the original Trilogy and what didn't you like about TFA Bilpe?

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Just now, Bilpe said:

I have been a Star Wars fan since 1977.  I was disappointed in TFA and hoping that TLJ would be a course correction.  After reading a few reviews, I decided that it was not going in a direction I cared for.  Therefore I chose not to support the movie by not giving them my money.  I was, however, curious about Luke Skywalker.  It is difficult to divest oneself of feelings for a character that you have been invested in for 41 years.  Again, I have no issues with anyone that thinks the movie is great, I just don't feel as though I need to see it.

 

I personally thought The Force Awakens was good enough - a bit much in trying to emulate A New Hope, but a lot more entertaining than the prequels.

 

The Last Jedi was received very well by critics, and the fanbase hasn't been as divided since The Empire Strikes Back has been released. The movie definitely changes things up, which I thought was cool. The movie is the first to catch the spirit of the originals - trying something new and wowing the audience with vehicles, combat, and weird Force stuff.

 

Because of all the changes to the formula, some Star Wars fans hate The Last Jedi, while others (like me) think it's the best movie since the very first one.

 

Are you sure you want to know about Luke, that you don't want to find out for yourself? Personally I think he's the best character in the entire movie, and he elevates the story to a whole new level.

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14 minutes ago, Decroux3000 said:

What did you like about the original Trilogy and what didn't you like about TFA Bilpe?

I could go on for a while about what I like about the original trilogy.  Why do I dislike the new trilogy in comparison?  The biggest thing is the characters.  In the OT, Luke Skywalker was the very essence of Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey, Han was the rogue with the heart of gold, Leia was the damsel (not quite so) in distress, Vader was the conflicted villain.  These were all relatable, if not down right familiar, characters.

 

What do you have in the NT?  The conflicted storm trooper?  There's no way he gets all the way through training without washing out or being turned into the hardened killer his comrades are.  The cocky pilot?  He is nothing more than a cipher to me; they don't really explain who he is or why I should care about him.  The most Force sensitive girl in the history of the Force or the history of girls?  She can do things without any training that even Anakin (the most powerful Jedi ever, if I recall) could not do without years of training.

 

The characters, to me, are disingenuous.  They are a product of lazy writing and poor story telling. I (and I'm speaking only for myself) don't believe in them and don't care about them.  The most feeling I've had for any of the three was simply annoyance.

 

There are other reasons.  So many that I don't want to write them, and I'm sure no one would read them.  So I'll stop there.

 

I hope I'm not offending anyone; this is just my perspective.  I'm sure that there are people that could just as easily make a case for why they think the new characters are great and the old ones are trash.  It's a matter of perspective.

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2 minutes ago, Bilpe said:

I could go on for a while about what I like about the original trilogy.  Why do I dislike the new trilogy in comparison?  The biggest thing is the characters.  In the OT, Luke Skywalker was the very essence of Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey, Han was the rogue with the heart of gold, Leia was the damsel (not quite so) in distress, Vader was the conflicted villain.  These were all relatable, if not down right familiar, characters.

 

What do you have in the NT?  The conflicted storm trooper?  There's no way he gets all the way through training without washing out or being turned into the hardened killer his comrades are.  The cocky pilot?  He is nothing more than a cipher to me; they don't really explain who he is or why I should care about him.  The most Force sensitive girl in the history of the Force or the history of girls?  She can do things without any training that even Anakin (the most powerful Jedi ever, if I recall) could not do without years of training.

 

The characters, to me, are disingenuous.  They are a product of lazy writing and poor story telling. I (and I'm speaking only for myself) don't believe in them and don't care about them.  The most feeling I've had for any of the three was simply annoyance.

 

There are other reasons.  So many that I don't want to write them, and I'm sure no one would read them.  So I'll stop there.

 

I hope I'm not offending anyone; this is just my perspective.  I'm sure that there are people that could just as easily make a case for why they think the new characters are great and the old ones are trash.  It's a matter of perspective.

 

Fair enough, then I can fairly safely say you'll likely not enjoy TLJ if you watched it. It does build on those characters in way you may appreciate, but their core from TFA remains. It's a good movie with truly stand-out moments, though it has polarized heavily.

 

Did you enjoy Rogue One Bilpe?

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7 minutes ago, Decroux3000 said:

Did you enjoy Rogue One Bilpe?

I did.  The different story telling devices they used were quite jarring at first, but once I became accustomed to them I would say I thoroughly enjoyed it.  Although, Vader was way too talky for my taste.

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I have mixed feelings towards the movie. 

 

I was really let down by "The force awakens", because of the resembles to "A new Hope", so in a sense I liked that "The last Jedi" totally went into a new direction, which was awesome. .  But the movie had some weird pacing, and there was a couple of things where I either face palmed myself, rolled my eyes or shook my head. 

 

Rouge One, still stand as my favorite Star Wars movie

 

 

 

 

Edited by Malik
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I saw it on Sunday, and I'm still processing the movie. I think that's a positive thing, that it's stuck with me.

 

I liked it, but I'm still adjusting to the big changes from the previous movies. There were a lot of great character moments, good effects, and the humor mostly worked for me. It got a lot done in 2 and a half hours, to the point that I thought the movie would end before it did at least once.

 

For me, Force Awakens is more "fun" but I liked Last Jedi a lot, and it certainly was more uplifting than Rogue One (which I did enjoy, but it's not a movie that I'll rewatch again and again, unlike the "proper" movies).

 

Not watching trailers and reading spoilers really paid off for me. Several plot twists took me by surprise.

Spoiler

The big ones were Snoke getting killed, Luke projecting himself, Yoda appearing, and Luke dying. If you had asked me a week ago, I would have thought Snoke would stick around until Ep 9. In the back of my mind I suspected that Luke would die in this movie, but I still held out hope that he would make it to Ep 9 to kick some First Order butt. The projection thing and Yoda popping up were just fun moments that I wasn't expecting. Although I did notice that Luke was using Anakin's lightsaber with his projection, which made me start wondering "did he build a replica?"

 

Things I really liked:

Spoiler
  • Rose was a cool new character, and I liked seeing the three New Trilogy heroes + Kylo get more development. Now we have a possible love triangle with Finn, Rose, and Rey, or maybe Rey will be more of a sister to Finn... who knows.
  • The hacker/thief character was a lot of fun.
  • The hyperspace ramming sequence was awesome and one of my favorite Star Wars set piece moments.
  • The use of red salt in the last combat sequence was a really neat visual.
  • Seeing the Millennium Falcon in real combat again was great. My heart raced like a little kid.
  • The Porgs were great. I know they were thrown in for kids but they cracked me up. Maybe they were in too many scenes, but it was hilarious when one of them looked at Chewie with cute anime eyes to try to shame him out of eating one.
  • It was fun to see Luke again, even though it was short lived. I think the character was handled fine, like Han in Ep 7, but like Han it was hard for me to let go of the character.
  • Yoda popping up was a highlight for me. I loved his dialog: "Read them did you? Pageturners they are not!" I like that Yoda is even more eccentric as a ghost, and that he still has wisdom to share. I don't think he needs to show up again in Ep 9 but I hope Force Ghost Luke does.
  • I loved that Luke was persuaded to help the Resistance by R2 showing him the same video recording that kicked off their adventures together, all those years before.
  • The death of Snoke and the battle in his chamber was awesome. He appears to have been one of the most powerful Force Users we've seen. It would be interesting if a side/anthology movie explores his past.

 

One side effect of the New Trilogy is making me feel old and a bit sad.

Spoiler

I understand the story reasons for transitioning from old beloved characters to new ones, but there's a part of me that is saddened that the OT heroes didn't "live happily ever after". I think both Han and Luke had deaths befitting their characters, but childhood me wanted them to get happy endings. I wish we had gotten to see the 5-10 years after RotJ where there was peace and everyone was happy. But I know lack of conflict doesn't make fun action movies.

 

Questions I have after watching the movie:

Spoiler
  • What is the point of those Resistance bombers? Sure, they can one-shot kill probably anything, but they are slow, almost defenseless, and a weird replacement for Y and B Wings. I guess the idea was that they are like WW2 bombers, but it felt weird.
  • Where are the other pupils of Luke's that Kylo took with him? Those are presumably the Knights of Ren. Will we see them in Ep 9?
  • I thought Leia was dead when she got blown out of the bridge. It would have been cheap, but I was half expecting a rock to fall on her at the end of the movie. How is her character going to be handled in Ep 9?
  • The question of Leia raises a bigger point. Ep 9 is going to have very few surviving OT characters. Chewie, R2-D2, and C-3PO are still around, and I think Nien Nunb survived Ep 8 (or did he get blown up in the hanger explosion? I lost track). It would be great to see Lando again, but that's just the fanboy in me talking. I don't know if he would add much to Ep 9 from a story perspective.

 

Things I expect out of Episode 9:

Spoiler
  • I liked that we got more space battle scenes here than in Force Awakens, but there still wasn't a big fleet battle. I really want Ep 9 to have a epic space battle to rival RotJ. I was really disappointed that the big space battle in Ep 3 was too short. There were more impressive battles in the Clone Wars series.
  • It seems obvious that we'll have an epic lightsaber battle between Kylo and Rey, and I definitely want to see that. I think we've done enough with them Force dueling each other; now I want to see a big lightsaber battle with the scenery getting destroyed all around them. We got a pretty good fight in Force Awakens, but this should be a full battle with neither of them being badly injured before the fight.
  • Maybe the New Trilogy needs to end with a more definitive defeat of evil? Make the inevitable future sequel trilogy (which I don't think the Rian Johnson trilogy is going to be) work harder and have to make a new big bad rather than a remnant of the Empire/First Order.

 

Those are the 3 things I want to see. I will keep an open mind and look forward to seeing the movie in 2 years.

 

Edited by MosesRockefeller
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Again, no offense to anyone that likes this movie or the sequel trilogy, but if you take the time to read this article: https://medium.com/@josvchoi/the-last-jedi-on-the-character-assassination-of-luke-skywalker-38fe0190d01a you will understand perfectly where I'm coming from.  If you were satisfied with TLJ, by all means carry on with your day.  But if you felt something was "off", this article will tell you what and why.  I thought TLJ just sounded as though it was not a good movie, but the author explains how it completely undermined the mythos of the entire saga and has diminished it almost to the point of no redemption.

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