Star Wars: The Last Jedi

[TheLakota]

2 hours ago, MeteorHawk said:

Ad hominem galore with a touch of appeal to popularity. 

 

Personal attacks aside, no one criticizing the film cares whether it made a significant amount of money; rather, they've brought forth reasons as to why they felt let down as fans. 

 

How about you rephrase and explain why you feel this is a good film with actual points. 

 

For instance, I was entertained by TLJ, though I came out of the theater conflicted due to a variety of issues:

 

*Snoke

*Luke acting the way he did

*Superfluous arc with Finn/Rose

*Kanata hologram scene

*Leia (you know the scene)

*No actual training of Rey

*Hero (Rey) not truly tested

*Continued mastery of something that took Luke years to accomplish. 

 

Now you go. 

[that_dude_cam_ps]

On 12/18/2017 at 9:01 AM, Malik said:

I have mixed feelings towards the movie. 

 

I was really let down by "The force awakens", because of the resembles to "A new Hope", so in a sense I liked that "The last Jedi" totally went into a new direction, which was awesome. .  But the movie had some weird pacing, and there was a couple of things where I either face palmed myself, rolled my eyes or shook my head. 

 

Rouge One, still stand as my favorite Star Wars movie

 

 

 

 

To be clear you mean favorite of the new generation...? Or ever?!?!?

[that_dude_cam_ps]

On 12/21/2017 at 5:21 AM, enaysoft said:

I'll keep my post short but, the film was terrible, factually awful. How many more franchises in my lifetime do I have to see be ruined. It's very sad.

Your opinion is not a fact... you think it was terrible, I thought it was great, as did many others

Edited December 22, 2017 by cam_wick
Typo

[Oobedoob S Benubi]

13 minutes ago, TheLakota said:

 

Personal attacks aside, no one criticizing the film cares whether it made a significant amount of money; rather, they've brought forth reasons as to why they felt let down as fans. 

 

How about you rephrase and explain why you feel this is a good film with actual points. 

 

Don't know if you're cherry-picking posts to reply on or if it's just bad luck but you do realise that me and others who liked the film are already defending and/or agreeing with these points in earlier posts right?

 

Anyway, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and I'll give you my opinion on these points.

 

13 minutes ago, TheLakota said:

For instance, I was entertained by TLJ, though I came out of the theater conflicted due to a variety of issues:

 

*Snoke

 

Spoiler

Snoke is like Emperor Pappatine in the original trilogy - a one dimensional villain, and not who the movies are about. I would like more characterisation on Snoke eventually, but even before TLJ, I expected it in books and not in the main films.

 

13 minutes ago, TheLakota said:

*Luke acting the way he did

 

Spoiler

Luke from the original trilogy acts rashly and has rage issues. I get that people wanted to see Luke as a pure and heroic Jedi master, but I don't see anything out of character in this movie for the Luke I know from the old movies and books. Luke never had that much Jedi training, and with what he knows of the dark side is what Yoda told him - once you start down the path to the dark side, it will consume you. Given how Kylo acts end ends up in TLJ, my theory is that Luke saw Ben for what he was - truly evil and without a chance of redemption. Luke couldn't bring himself to kill a boy that hadn't done anything wrong yet, even if the Force showed him how evil Ben was deep down.

 

13 minutes ago, TheLakota said:

*Superfluous arc with Finn/Rose

 

Spoiler

I like their arcs but I don't like the casino scenes for what they show: a huge grey area in stories that were about absolute good and absolute evil. I don't need political commentary on war profiteers. It's the one thing in the movie that actually continues to bother me, though it's not enough for me to not call it among the best three Star Wars movies thanks to the other stuff in the movie that I did like.

 

13 minutes ago, TheLakota said:

*Kanata hologram scene

 

Spoiler

I'm guessing you mean "katana", and you mean Luke's astral projection? If not, I don't know what hologram you would be talking about.

 

Astral projection has precedent in the expanded universe and I loved it personally. Jedi powers have been shown in the movies before as lightsaber battles, levitation and a bit of (50% successful) mind tricks. This astral projection is more like the space wizards the Jedi can be, and have been in the expanded universe 

 

13 minutes ago, TheLakota said:

*Leia (you know the scene)

 

Spoiler

Like one above, I like this scene for exploring what space wizards could be able to do. This action as well has been performed in the expanded universe before. Though I do admit that this one is filmed a bit over the top (some call it Superman, though my thoughts were Gaia goddess).

 

13 minutes ago, TheLakota said:

*No actual training of Rey

 

Spoiler

Not that Luke had that much training. Sadly Carrie Fisher has passed, I expect she would have been the one to explain more to Rey in 9.

 

Personally: Luke did not have that much training himself, Rey has the ancient texts, and ever since the prequels, I am of the opinion that the Jedi weren't all that great. Maybe Rey and all the other Force users that are starting to awaken can figure out something new, something better 

 

13 minutes ago, TheLakota said:

*Hero (Rey) not truly tested

 

Spoiler

Do we need her to? Do we need to hold on to these tropes? Anyway it's my guess that Rey will be truly tested come episode 9, though not in the way you're asking for. The fate of the Jedi order is now resting on her and the other awakened.

 

13 minutes ago, TheLakota said:

*Continued mastery of something that took Luke years to accomplish. 

 

Spoiler

How exactly is Rey different from Luke? Luke managed force pull of his light saber without any shown practice in ESB. I don't see how Rey managing a mind trick with a few tries in TFA is that much better than Luke.

 

Next to that, it's almost a given that Rey would be more of a natural than Luke when talking about bigger stuff, like levitation of an X-Wing or a huge pile of rocks. Luke failed, as Yoda said, because he didn't think any of this was possible. Rey has no problem believing the stories about the Jedi, which is why it works.

 

When talking about lightsaber battling, of course Rey is a natural. She has had to defend herself with her staff for years. With a light saber, the pointy end is just even more dangerous.

 

13 minutes ago, TheLakota said:

Now you go. 

 

There, I went.

[ziggypossum]

 

[VelaXityyyy]

2 hours ago, Pickle Rick said:

Spoiler

Luke from the original trilogy acts rashly and has rage issues. I get that people wanted to see Luke as a pure and heroic Jedi master, but I don't see anything out of character in this movie for the Luke I know from the old movies and books. Luke never had that much Jedi training, and with what he knows of the dark side is what Yoda told him - once you start down the path to the dark side, it will consume you. Given how Kylo acts end ends up in TLJ, my theory is that Luke saw Ben for what he was - truly evil and without a chance of redemption. Luke couldn't bring himself to kill a boy that hadn't done anything wrong yet, even if the Force showed him how evil Ben was deep down.

 

luke shouldn't have been some hermit on an island just running away from everything. luke would be optimistic and not say "it is time for the jedi to end" legends luke was better as it made much more sense.

[YemmytheFerret]

18 minutes ago, Velaxity said:

luke shouldn't have been some hermit on an island just running away from everything. luke would be optimistic and not say "it is time for the jedi to end" legends luke was better as it made much more sense.

Is it safe to say he was scarred by what he almost did and what did happen enough to send him into depression thus giving him a more cynical look at the Universe/the force?

Edited December 22, 2017 by Muskratateer

[Oobedoob S Benubi]

42 minutes ago, Velaxity said:

luke shouldn't have been some hermit on an island just running away from everything. luke would be optimistic and not say "it is time for the jedi to end" legends luke was better as it made much more sense.

 

I very much agree that I would have loved to see a continuation of "Legends Luke"; I enjoyed many of the now-Legends stories, including Jedi Academy, which pre-TFA I had hoped to see more of.

 

However, given that JJ Abrams created a lot of questions with TFA without in advance thinking about how to solve them (Johnson admitted as much), I think with what we get from TFA - "Luke tried to create a Jedi Academy, but quit after Ben Solo turned and killed all the pupils" - that TLJ gave us the best possible outcome.

 

Look, I am certainly not saying that I prefer this direction Luke is taken on. Please don't mistake my acceptance of the new direction for an admission of it being a great direction. Honestly, after Disney pushed the reset button I sold a lot of my now-Legends books, but I kept the "Tales From" books, the Thrawn trilogy, and the Jedi Academy trilogy. I loved the idea of Luke starting a new Jedi Order, trying to make it better - I did not like the Jedi Order from the prequels at all, and agree with Luke's sentiments about them in TLJ. I was pissed after TFA that Luke's Jedi Academy didn't work out, it was honestly one of the thiings I was hoping for in the new movies.

 

BUT, my opinion is, that even if I would have preferred a different direction for Luke, I can get behind this "new" Luke, who wasn't as lucky as Legends Luke. If we look only at the original trilogy, Luke was a rash and high-strung boy, who didn't have much training or knowledge and was only saved by a rare few moments of self-reflection. When you break it down, he's just as whiny as Anakin in the prequels and Kylo in the sequels, what made him better than those two was his innate goodness (but let's not forget that he actually talks about joining the Imperial Academy at the start of ANH). It's not that farfetched for me to believe that this Luke, not helped by the characterisation and lessons that the now-Legends gave him, would take it very hard when Han and Leia's only child succumbs to the Dark Side on Luke's watch. Given that this Luke never found the Jedi holocrons or got the other now-Legends information, it's easy to see how he would become disillusioned.

 

When it comes down to it, I think TLJ Luke is right. The Jedi were a religion out of touch with reality, and Palpatine was able to create the Empire right under their noses, with some very bad handling of Anakin by Obi-Wan, Yoda and Mace resulting in Darth Vader. The Jedi don't own the Force, and I feel like Force users would be better served with a looser moral package. I always love stories of Grey Jedi, who use the Dark Side for good purposes.

 

So, TL;DR? In short: I agree with you that I would have liked to see a different Luke. I disagree that this new characterisation is per definition out of character for the original trilogy Luke. And:

 

Spoiler

Luke's conversation with Yoda helps, in my eyes, to show how close this is to the Luke that Yoda tried to train to take a different outlook.

 

Luke's conversation with Yoda, and his subsequent battle with Kylo, and his death afterwards, were very powerful moments for me, that helped in msking this one of the best Star Wars films in my eyes.

 

I was very conflicted after first watching TLJ and had to give it a couple of days, lots of discussions with others and two additional viewings, to really process it. After that, I've decided that I love this film, and I accept this new Luke, even if I'm sad that we never got Legends Luke on film.

 

Seriously, I never had to talk as much about a film to be able to process it and decide what my opinion is. The film really shakes up the status quo. In the end, I think that with what TFA left us, TLJ is better than the best possible outcome I had hoped for.

 

Having written so much, I sincerely hope you take the trouble of reading it and that you 'get' my view afterwards, even if you don't agree with it, and that you won't do what others in this thread have done, reposting hate blogs/vids in trying to state that their opinion on the film can be the only correct one.

 

Edited December 22, 2017 by Pickle Rick
typo (though with a post this long, there's probably more that I didn't spot)

[TheLakota]

Holy hell, I just lost my entire response.

 

Suffice it to say we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

Edited to add: I was quoting MeteorHawk, not you Mr. Pickle, thus I hope you don't take offense to my post.

 

I don't feel inclined to retype everything again in detail, so I'll be ultra brief:

 

• Palpatine was ancillary. Vader was always the main antagonist until the conclusion of RotJ.
• Agree to disagree
• Agree to disagree. It was shoddy writing and a pointless side-quest.
• No, I meant the Maz Kanata hologram scene wherein she puked exposition to help our bumbling heroes in their pointless quest
• Let's just say I'll never get Disney's fixation with Mary Poppins.
• Luke's training (or lack thereof in your eyes) was my longest segment. Let's just say we disagree (if you'd like me to unpack, watch the training montage in ESB vs. Rey's mastery at end of TLJ
• I'll just say I'm not impressed thus far, and they've only one film left to do so.
• Completely disagree, and I'll leave it at that

Edited December 23, 2017 by TheLakota
Because I lost my entire fucking post.

[Oobedoob S Benubi]

4 hours ago, TheLakota said:

Holy hell, I just lost my entire response.

 

Suffice it to say we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

Edited to add: I was quoting MeteorHawk, not you Mr. Pickle, thus I hope you don't take offense to my post.

 

I don't feel inclined to retype everything again in detail, so I'll be ultra brief:

 

• Palpatine was ancillary. Vader was always the main antagonist until the conclusion of RotJ.
• Agree to disagree
• Agree to disagree. It was shoddy writing and a pointless side-quest.
• No, I meant the Maz Kanata hologram scene wherein she puked exposition to help our bumbling heroes in their pointless quest
• Let's just say I'll never get Disney's fixation with Mary Poppins.
• Luke's training (or lack thereof in your eyes) was my longest segment. Let's just say we disagree (if you'd like me to unpack, watch the training montage in ESB vs. Rey's mastery at end of TLJ
• I'll just say I'm not impressed thus far, and they've only one film left to do so.
• Completely disagree, and I'll leave it at that

 

I know you were quoting someone else, it's just that a few others who didn't like the film ignored posts from people who made rational arguments defending the film to focus on the people who liked the film but had already lost their temper. Seeing as you took the time to respond to me, it's clear to me that you're not acting like that.

 

I appreciate you taking the time to respond, would've loved to read your full response.

 

I'm fine with disagreeing, as long as we're adults about it. Disagreeing happens. Hell, my wife has been watching all Star Wars films with me (she wanted to know what all the comedy shows she watched were referencing) and she thought the movies were garbage, until The Force Awakens. Everything from TFA she's watched multiple times already (except The Last Jedi as it's new), but she still thinks the other films are awful. She thinks the original trilogy is stupid, and I still married her. Now that's love  

 

Some stuff on your points:

 

Palpatine/Snoke:

Spoiler

Both got the same amount of (lack of) characterisation and background, but I agree that they were not presented the same way. Palpatine ended up as the Bigger Bad to Vader's Big Bad, while Snoke apparently was a Decoy Antagonist so we coult think that Kylo Ren could be redeemed just like Vader. But instead Kylo murdered Snoke not to save Rey but for personal gain. It's a classic case of the Rule Of Two; the Sith apprentice always tries to kill the Sith master if they see an opening.

 

Ah right, Kanata was the last name of Maz. Yeah, I agree with that being unnecessary. Maz was not known to us as a code breaker so they didn't need to have her do the exposition. What's worse, they made me expect Lando thanks to how she talked, or at least some character we actually knew from other films.

 

I actually completely agree with the stuff about Finn/Rose on Canto Bight not being written well. I do like their character growth though. About it being pointless, it was actually worse:

Spoiler

If they hadn't gone off to do this quest, the plan of Leia/Holdo would have worked. So it was really counterproductive, and Finn/Rose/Por, though with decent intentions, have indirectly caused many deaths on the side of the Resistance. Everyone in the blown up shuttles, everyone who died on Crait in the battle, even Luke. Though Luke would've chosen to go like this anyway.

 

That the mission of Finn and Rose is this counterproductive doesn't mean I dislike it for that reason though.

 

Luke's training in ESB didn't have lightsaber battling in it though, just being more at rest and focused. Luke had problems with levitating his X-Wing because he didn't believe, as Yoda said. So since Rey believes it's all possible, it should be easier for her. I'm fine with agreeing to disagree on this point, just wanted to clarify my view a bit more.

 

One film left to go... And JJ Abrams is back at the helm, that's what I'm afraid of.

 

I'm curious: as you stated you're conflicted by the film but still entertained, what's your take on other upcoming non-numbered films? So the Solo movie that releases in 2018 (which has a big chance of messing up your view of some well liked original trilogy characters), and the new trilogy that Rian Johnson gets to write since Disney and Lucasfilm are so pleased with TLJ (which should contain only new characters but will still have Johnson's writing and directing style).

[HaSoOoN-MHD]

On 12/21/2017 at 6:59 AM, Bilpe said:

This is good stuff.  You covered a lot of material.  I propose that we deal with the five one at a time, if that is acceptable, starting with character, as this seems to be the main point of contention between those who like the new trilogy and those who don't.  Unfortunately, that also means talking at length about TFA because that is where most of the new characters were introduced.

 

I have two examples, both from Empire, both occurring with the introduction of someone the audience is not yet familiar with.  Each of them is an example of how a single line or two of dialogue can establish character.

1. Darth Vader (gesturing toward Boba Fett): No disintegrations.  Boba Fett: As you wish.
2. Princess Leia (referring to Lando Calrissian):  Do you trust him?  Han Solo:  No, but he is my friend.

The first demonstrates immediately that Fett is a bad ass (I know this point can be argued after RotJ, but still).  The second demonstrates that Lando can't necessarily be trusted.  Both instantly give you an idea of just who we're dealing with here.  Both demonstrate foreshadowing and world building as well, but that is a topic for another time.

 

In my opinion, this is largely missing from the new trilogy.  If you insert one sixty second scene in the Resistance hanger with Finn, this could have been done with Poe Dameron.  For example:  Hangar Guy (to Finn):  You're Dameron's friend?  Finn:  Yeah, something like that.  Hangar guy:  Well, I'd be careful.  He gets his friends killed.

 

Now, this is only one example, and it is entirely possible that I missed something.  I honestly don't remember anything similar to this in TFA, though, for any of the three new lead characters.

 

 

 

I'd honestly need to rewatch TFA to sufficiently respond to this since some of the details are blurry on my end, too - and that movie certainly doesn't have the finesse that Empire Strikes Back had but it had some moments that I would describe as similar. Finn's introduction, for instance - when he refuses to fire. You can tell from the start he's less of a mindless mook and an actual human beneath the helmet. Rey's introduction tells you right away that she's a survivor, hardened by cruel living conditions in the middle of absolutely no where.

 

On 12/21/2017 at 8:54 AM, Bilpe said:

One other thing occurred to me after reading through your post a second time.  I don't think anyone expected Luke to NOT change.  I know that I didn't.  What I expected was for him to grow more into the wise old master archetype.  He's been there and done, to borrow a phrase.  One can only assume that he has been practicing and studying the force since RotJ ended.  This alone should give him unprecedented insight into the ways of the Force because of all that has come before.  He's an old man now; he once faced down Vader and the Emperor; what could he possibly be confronted with that would throw him into such disarray at this point in his life?  Unless it is something so unique and so beyond comprehension that there has never been anything like it, going all the way back to the earliest days of the Jedi.  And if that is the case, SAY IT.  If children are being born with ten or one hundred or even one thousand times the Force ability that Anakin Skywalker had, then for God's sake someone SAY IT.  Then Rey and Kylo Ren's story and Luke's fear make some sense.  And the audience is not left to guess at what the filmmakers were trying to do.

 

Just how interesting would that be, though? that's what I thought going in to the movie too and it could have been a good story in it's own right but I don't think it would be anywhere near as interesting or innovative for the Star Wars universe as the path Rian took which opened so many interesting connotations for the Jedi/Sith duality and the force as a whole. And I think the movie already does say that; Luke says multiple times over

that the raw power that Ben/Kylo possesses is something he has never, ever seen before. That it's downright terrifying and one thing people miss is despite all that Luke DID NOT GO FOR THE KILLING STRIKE. It was enough to get him to consider it which is huge in itself - and Snoke talking about the way the force works by balancing out the contenders on both the sides of light and dark points at the same conclusion too: the new generation is not like the old.

[Romanus1]

I would love someone to explain Rey knowing how to fight with a saber from the first time she picked one up and seeing her with the saber is the main catalyst why Luke says ok I will train you this idea she is so powerful it comes easy just does not hold for all she can do remember Luke had to train with his on the Flacon not sure if its still cannon but it was said only people with force powers could use one because it takes so much concentration so wonder how Finn uses one

 

another force over the top was Kylo in TFA stopping a blaster bolt that is such bs I almost lol when I saw it there is a reason all Jedi and Sith deflect them or are we saying they are most powerful force users ever 

 

and a last point this whole prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the force Lucas said after Jedi Luke helped his father fulfil it but with Snoke out there they made that BS 

 

but then again maybe they should have changed it he will bring balance for a while but then you will need a god like female figure to finish the job 

 

as a female I understand what they wanted a strong female character but they just made someone too perfect 

 

[Oobedoob S Benubi]

7 hours ago, Romanus1 said:

I would love someone to explain Rey knowing how to fight with a saber from the first time she picked one up and seeing her with the saber is the main catalyst why Luke says ok I will train you this idea she is so powerful it comes easy just does not hold for all she can do remember Luke had to train with his on the Flacon not sure if its still cannon but it was said only people with force powers could use one because it takes so much concentration so wonder how Finn uses one

 

another force over the top was Kylo in TFA stopping a blaster bolt that is such bs I almost lol when I saw it there is a reason all Jedi and Sith deflect them or are we saying they are most powerful force users ever 

 

and a last point this whole prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the force Lucas said after Jedi Luke helped his father fulfil it but with Snoke out there they made that BS 

 

but then again maybe they should have changed it he will bring balance for a while but then you will need a god like female figure to finish the job 

 

as a female I understand what they wanted a strong female character but they just made someone too perfect 

 

 

As I already said: Rey knows how to handle a saber because she has excessive experience with a battling staff. Not just Jedi/Sith can handle it, it's a fancy sword, but it takes concentration and a link to the Force to fight well with it.

 

Rey's saber efforts are not ehy Luke starts training her; she didn't control herself enough and cut through the rock, after which he left again. He decided to train her after meeting with R2.

 

With the blaster bolt, just like with the stuff from TLJ: I'm happy that they're doing more with the Force, showing more. Force users are supposed to be powerful; a lot was written in the expanded universe but not enough was shown on screen. And yeah, stopping it mid-air is a boasting power move as it takes less effort to just deflect it.

 

With the new trilogy, a fan theory has been proven about the prophecy: that the Jedi interpreted the prophecy incorrectly. "Balance" is balancing light and dark, not eradicating dark. Anakin brought balance by destroying all Jedi, then killing the last Sith master and dying himself, leaving only one active Force user who was conflicted with light and dark. All the more reason for me to say that there will be an era for Grey Jedi now, just like I predicted.

 

I don't think Rey is necessarily that strong. She can handle herself against Kylo but she's hilariously underpowered when meeting Snoke. My theory to why she's quicker in learning to use the Force is because she grew up on the legends and has no problem believing them; as Yoda told Luke in ESB that Luke failed simply because he didn't believe something could be possible. Taken from that, Force training is less about how to use the Force and more about how to keep your concentration while doing so, less muscle training and more zen training. Except for light saber training of course, which is expert sword training. Note that Rey, due to being used to different kinds of weapons, uses a technique that is potentially very dangerous to herself: a reverse grip (or backhand sword style).

 

 

 

I watched the movie a fourth time now and during one scene I realised there's a lot of parallels between Luke, and Obi-Wan/Yoda. All failed one of their students and all went into self-imposed exile. Obi-Wan became a guardian for Luke and as such was willing to train him, but Yoda and Luke went into hiding and both were reluctant to take on a new trainee, with in the end Yoda being more hopeful and Luke seeing past the Jedi Order.

[Bullstomp]

I think this video successfully summarizes how I felt about the movie -

 

 

[jacks]

A little late to the party, as I wanted to wait until the opening day crowds died down before seeing it. Overall, thought it was great, and was probably my second favorite behind ESB, even though, yes, there were quite a few things that I feel could have been done better (but regardless of the impact the Star Wars franchise as a whole has had on my life, be it the movies, the toys, the games, the books, etc, I have never subscribed to the theory that any of them were perfect, and Lucas was a master at world building, but left a ton to be desired in quite a few other departments, especially dialog and in the event he committed to an element of comic relief).

 

Kind of confused by the massive amount of backlash this seems to be getting, and I'm kind of under the impression that quite a few people don't really know what they want with this franchise going forward (and before some of the dissenters in this topic start listing off the things they didn't like or would change, I read through this entire topic, so you don't really need to bother), be it they want the ideas of a man they were calling a hack since the prequels to have his vision realized, or that they deep down inside wanted this to be a by the books Star Wars trilogy that was simply competent and nothing more, or... I don't know.... I also took probably more time than I care to admit to read through quite a bit of the petition signings over at that massive Change.org site's petition to get a kind of a hold on the hate, since it seems the metabombing that it's receiving on both RT and Metacritic seems to showcase a lack of unity in some of the complaints (and for the record, metabombing is lame, and at least one guy i read on Change was encouraging people to bomb the Amazon reviews as soon as they become available which is the absolute epitome of childish and incredibly stupid), and there seems to be a few different angles as to why people were so offended by this film, ranging from quality to Luke's portrayal to SJW pandering (oh boy) to pretty much everything under the sun.

 

Somebody earlier said we've become more polarized of a culture in recent years, but I would take it a step further by saying that, especially the US, has become a nation of protest. Eventually it becomes noise after a while, especially on topics like this that don't even really matter, since everything seems to be upsetting to people to a largely unhealthy degree, and there's a new flavor of the week of what to protest next.

[TheLakota]

I think most of us -- in this thread at least -- aren't protesting the film in the literal sense. Rather, we just wanted the film to be better than it was.

[jacks]

2 minutes ago, TheLakota said:

I think most of us -- in this thread at least -- aren't protesting the film in the literal sense. Rather, we just wanted the film to be better than it was.

 

That's fine, you're entitled to that. I think I'm more referring to the incredibly childish way that some of the people I was just reading on the other said petition site with people encouraging metabombing to encourage disney to give it back to Lucas, and also juxtaposing it with a thread I found on Reddit from a couple years ago where there's over a hundred posts dedicated to ripping to shreds anything that the man stood for along with his prequels (anybody that came to the defense were, of course, obliterated by a rabid fanbase), and I get mixed messages from this crowd.

 

If you want to be civil, saying "meh, could have been better", I don't see anything wrong with that and don't expect everyone to conform to all my opinions. But... some of this stuff...

[MosesRockefeller]

7 hours ago, iamjax said:

 

That's fine, you're entitled to that. I think I'm more referring to the incredibly childish way that some of the people I was just reading on the other said petition site with people encouraging metabombing to encourage disney to give it back to Lucas, and also juxtaposing it with a thread I found on Reddit from a couple years ago where there's over a hundred posts dedicated to ripping to shreds anything that the man stood for along with his prequels (anybody that came to the defense were, of course, obliterated by a rabid fanbase), and I get mixed messages from this crowd.

 

If you want to be civil, saying "meh, could have been better", I don't see anything wrong with that and don't expect everyone to conform to all my opinions. But... some of this stuff...

The silliest part of those petitions is that those fanboys are completely deluded. The only thing giving the franchise back to Lucas would accomplish, is that no more movies would get made. Lucas could have made a new SW movie in the decade between Ep 3 and A Force Awakens, but he didn't. He doesn't want to make SW movies anymore.

 

And you're right, the USA at least is a nation of petitions and protests now. That's great, when it's something important like civil rights. But we've gotten to the point where there are strong reactions to anything and everything now. It's stupid.

[RadiantFlamberge]

I did like The Force Awakens, and am glad I didn't let all the flack it had gotten turn me away from it.  All that bothered me was the final scene, where Luke makes his first & only appearance, yet says nothing at all.  NOTHING. Not that I'd allow this to ruin it for me. There's always someone blasting a movie to bits no matter how good it is. I'll have to check out TLJ as well.  I won't worry about it being 10/10, I just want it to be nearly as good as TLJ if not better.

 

Should this series have gone back to Lucas, I'd be afraid of another case of Nuking The Fridge.

[TheLakota]

3 hours ago, gameoverDude189 said:

Should this series have gone back to Lucas, I'd be afraid of another case of Nuking The Fridge.

 

Crystal Skull was Spielberg’s turd.

[Bilpe]

I'm going to protest by just not giving Disney my money (the old fashioned way to protest).  After trying to discuss the movies with folks (both in this thread and in the real world), I've just given up.  It's like we are speaking two different languages.  So be it.  There are plenty of people that like the new trilogy, just as there are plenty that enjoy the Pitch Perfect trilogy.  They are just not for me.

 

I do find the dichotomy of Star Wars fandom interesting, though.  Back in the late 90s and early 00s, I was accused of being a fanboy because I didn't hate the prequels.  Today I'm being accused of being a fanboy because I don't like the new trilogy.

[jacks]

8 hours ago, Bilpe said:

I'm going to protest by just not giving Disney my money (the old fashioned way to protest).  After trying to discuss the movies with folks (both in this thread and in the real world), I've just given up.  It's like we are speaking two different languages.  So be it.  There are plenty of people that like the new trilogy, just as there are plenty that enjoy the Pitch Perfect trilogy.  They are just not for me.

 

I do find the dichotomy of Star Wars fandom interesting, though.  Back in the late 90s and early 00s, I was accused of being a fanboy because I didn't hate the prequels.  Today I'm being accused of being a fanboy because I don't like the new trilogy.

 

I mean you don't have to go out of your way to convince people not to like the movie or see it your way, unless I'm kind of interpreting the first part wrong (and based off earlier sentiments in this topic linking to hate blogs about how they portrayed Luke). I have plenty of good discussions with people that are open to different opinions on this movie, and don't take it personally when they just don't see it my way, just for the sake of discussion. There's plenty of rational proponents of the film in this thread to discuss with, I just wouldn't simply cherry pick the arguments from the more emotional of the bunch for the sake of fighting, and concentrate on BillyHorrible and MosesRockefeller since they seem to be pretty level headed and supplying plenty of insightful counterpoints and comparisons for you to bounce your opinions off of (and they don't seem to be operating on polar extremes, where the movie is either a 10/10 or 0/10 with no in between of perfection and utter shit).

 

No, i perfectly understand what you're saying, so we're not speaking different languages -- I just don't agree with any of it, I loved where they went with Luke (and a majority of the cast, besides the Mary Poppins scene, which was a little more on the unintentional comedy side of things), and hope that this trilogy ends as "differently" as where this second movie took it. You're just as much as a fanboy as I am, and i always love the dissenters that have to preface every complaint that they have with the new trilogy with "Look, long time fan here, this movie and trilogy is a disgrace to mankind", and i'm just sitting there on the other end of that computer monitor like... "ok? Like there aren't any long time fans out there that enjoy everything that has come out in recent years, including the prequels?"

 

Protest however you want, I guess my comments are more directed at people who are taking this as personal as it is, since being disappointed is one thing, but people are like ready to go punch Rion Jonhson's kitten over this.

[Bilpe]

On 12/18/2017 at 1:21 AM, Bilpe said:

What do you have in the NT?  The conflicted storm trooper?  There's no way he gets all the way through training without washing out or being turned into the hardened killer his comrades are.

 

On 12/23/2017 at 3:28 AM, HaSoOoN-MHD said:

 Finn's introduction, for instance - when he refuses to fire. You can tell from the start he's less of a mindless mook and an actual human beneath the helmet.

 

This is what I meant when I said it's like we are speaking two different languages.  I'm not criticizing this poster for his opinion, don't misunderstand.  But what I'm saying is that people seem to be seeing two different movies.

 

On 1/5/2018 at 4:48 AM, iamjax said:

 

I mean you don't have to go out of your way to convince people not to like the movie or see it your way, unless I'm kind of interpreting the first part wrong (and based off earlier sentiments in this topic linking to hate blogs about how they portrayed Luke).

 

I'm not even sure what this means.  Hate blogs?  I think you may have confused me with someone else.  And I'm definitely not trying to convince anyone not to like anything.  The truth is, after almost a month to reflect on things, I'd say I've reached the point of complete disinterest.  I had moved on from Star Wars after Revenge of the Sith.  Moving on again is just a little easier this time.

[starcrunch061]

I'm going to join in with others - I didn't like this movie very much. It just seems like the writers/directors weren't in contact with one another. The resolutions of conflicts made little impact with me (or even sense, for that matter).

 

I'll probably see episode 9, but again, it just feels like wasted opportunity with Star Wars.

[Conker]

I saw the movie last night it was good but not one you could say was truly great, that’s just my opinion and personally felt it was a tad too long 

 

 

Im curious to see what they do with Leia’s character seeing as she is still alive in the movie, will we see Lando one more time, will anyone else in the original cast get killed off like Chewie, R2 or C-3pe, what the rest of the galaxy is like and this one might seem silly but what will they do with Luke’s ship that’s just sitting in the water.

 

i did like in the movie how using lightspeed can tear right threw a ship and Luke’s death was just fantastic a big fuck you to Kylo Ren , even if luke’s Character wasn’t as good as in the originals.

 

P.s anyone get episode 4 flashbacks opening scene in the opening scene of the last Jedi?

 

Edited January 17, 2018 by Jare