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Trophy Guide seems a bit off.


angelgrievous

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3 minutes ago, ZOLANTON said:

EDIT: I mean EVERYONE having the trophy unlocked should have the game removed from their list. It's a debatable case as you said.

 

Why should the people who earned it legit during the timeframe the trophy was attainable be punished for those that used a save months/years after the trophy was made unattainable.

I get your plight, I really do.

But you gotta look at it from the other side too ya know?

As others have stated, removing everyone that has a suspicious timestamp for trophies has to be treated the same way, and unfortunately its guilty until proven innocent in this respect as it seems to be the best way to keep the leaderboards as clean as possible.

Is it possible you did infact unlock this trophy legit via a glitch? yeah I guess, I don't know enough about the game to say for sure.

But the problem is glitch or not your timestamp LOOKS like you used a downloaded save.

And for the sake of the leaderboards you need to be removed unless you can prove otherwise.

 

If you have an better idea for how the whole flagging system should work then pitch it to sly?

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3 minutes ago, xD4rK_By_D3s1gNx said:

Is it possible you did infact unlock this trophy legit via a glitch? yeah I guess, I don't know enough about the game to say for sure.

 

Since the glitch angle gets brought up a lot with this game/trophy, I'd also like to re-iterate: if this trophy pops via a glitch, then why did it not pop for a *single* person between June 3 and December 14 (i.e., between the game mode becoming unavailable and the save file appearing online)? Why did the glitch only appear *after* December 14, despite EA never patching the game after that date?

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9 minutes ago, xD4rK_By_D3s1gNx said:

 

unfortunately its guilty until proven innocent

That's the whole issue in one sentence here. Why is it not innocent until proven guilty as the presumption of innocence states? Those people could have used a hack for all you know, the trophy was super glitchy and I was one that suffered during that time, as I knew the time limit of that trophy and started playing early just for that. From my experience it should always be all or nothing and avoid double standards. If you can't prove that people are guilty for unlocking the trophy after the time limit, then they are innocent. And looks are always deceiving. I take you to the Amy trophy cases.

 

Sorry @Broni1337I laughed so hard at that comment, we are in a site involving trophies, people spending thousands of hours playing shitty games (their right to do so, I don't judge) just to get some trophies and you say too serious about a trophy? Please. I am not going to hide it, cause I admit that way that I cheated. And so you know, it's more than a trophy being flagged for all I care I haven't trophy hunted for years due to studies and work. It's the insult to my face.

 

EDIT: Let me in turn rephrase the question. Why did the save appear solely after Dec 14 and not before? What made the save work after that date and not before it? We are all talking and making speculations. That's the issue, no one knows the real reason to a buggy game with a buggy trophy and we'll never know. I see people defending my case and others not, the whole problem is debatable.

Edited by ZOLANTON
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Just now, ZOLANTON said:

That's the whole issue in one sentence here. Why is it not innocent until proven guilty as the presumption of innocence states? Those people could have used a hack for all you know, the trophy was super glitchy and I was one that suffered during that time, as I knew the time limit of that trophy and started playing early just for that. From my experience it should always be all or nothing and avoid double standards. If you can't prove that people are guilty for unlocking the trophy after the time limit, then they are innocent. And looks are always deceiving. I take you to the Amy trophy cases.

 

As I said, the problem with innocent until proven guilty is that it has a much higher chance of tainting the leaderboards than the other way around.

Your right, they could have used a hack. Same goes for literally every other trophy on this site.

The difference is whether it LOOKS legit or not.

How would you approach an argument with someone after you claim they hacked their trophies just cause you have a hunch?

Even though their list looks 100% believable.

 

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1 minute ago, ZOLANTON said:

That's the whole issue in one sentence here. Why is it not innocent until proven guilty as the presumption of innocence states? Those people could have used a hack for all you know, the trophy was super glitchy and I was one that suffered during that time, as I knew the time limit of that trophy and started playing early just for that. From my experience it should always be all or nothing and avoid double standards. If you can't prove that people are guilty for unlocking the trophy after the time limit, then they are innocent. And looks are always deceiving. I take you to the Amy trophy cases.

 

Sorry @Broni1337I laughed so hard at that comment, we are in a site involving trophies, people spending thousands of hours playing shitty games (their right to do so, I don't judge) just to get some trophies and you say too serious about a trophy? Please. I am not going to hide it, cause I admit that way that I cheated. And so you know, it's more than a trophy being flagged for all I care I haven't trophy hunted for years due to studies and work. It's the insult to my face.

 

I dont think you viewed my Account ... I spend enough hours into Trophy hunting to be able to say : You take it waaaay to serious. Nobody cares about your "statement". Nobody cares about your "pride" in gaming (its just a hobby). Nobody care that you got one game flagged.

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13 minutes ago, Broni1337 said:

WTF, dude dont you think you take the whole trophy thing a little to serious? You got flagged for one game? Who cares.

 

I can't say if he cheated, but if any of my games got flagged I would be really pissed off. More for someone questioning my integrity than flag itself.

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@ZOLANTON The argument can go both ways. EA makes buggy games...hell the one in playing right now is a good example. In response to the Dec 14 situation, there is something that caused it to be obtainable again but after five months of it supposedly being unobtainable? I'm not disproving your side of the argument but it does draw up suspicions that should be explored

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1 minute ago, ihadalifeb4this said:

 

I can't say if he cheated, but if any of my games got flagged I would be really pissed off. More for someone questioning my integrity than flag itself.

Integrity as someone who plays games? Why is it important for someone what other people think about how you aproach your hobby?

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1 minute ago, Broni1337 said:

 

I dont think you viewed my Account ... I spend enough hours into Trophy hunting to be able to say : You take it waaaay to serious. Nobody cares about your "statement". Nobody cares about your "pride" in gaming (its just a hobby). Nobody care that you got one game flagged.

You have no reason to keep posting here then. You are one good example of the whole issue I mentioned about the whole dispute thing going public. Everyone can come here, throw some useless posts in the thread and leave. Then that person thinks he is cool after doing so. I don't care about your hours in trophy hunting and I don't care about your opinions. And I certainly don't want to hear about taking something seriously about trophies from someone that has wasted hours in videogames (and from the look of your account, someone avoiding playing hard games just to have an 100% account). 

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1 minute ago, ZOLANTON said:

You have no reason to keep posting here then. You are one good example of the whole issue I mentioned about the whole dispute thing going public. Everyone can come here, throw some useless posts in the thread and leave. Then that person thinks he is cool after doing so. I don't care about your hours in trophy hunting and I don't care about your opinions. And I certainly don't want to hear about taking something seriously about trophies from someone that has wasted hours in videogames (and from the look of your account, someone avoiding playing hard games just to have an 100% account). 

Then don't keep posting. Your only adding unnecessary fuel to the flames

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1 minute ago, ZOLANTON said:

You have no reason to keep posting here then. You are one good example of the whole issue I mentioned about the whole dispute thing going public. Everyone can come here, throw some useless posts in the thread and leave. Then that person thinks he is cool after doing so. I don't care about your hours in trophy hunting and I don't care about your opinions. And I certainly don't want to hear about taking something seriously about trophies from someone that has wasted hours in videogames (and from the look of your account, someone avoiding playing hard games just to have an 100% account). 

Look further in my acc and tell me pls how i avoiding hard games :). Super Meat Boy, Binding of Isaac, The Evil Within, every Metal Gear Solid Game (including 4) and so on ...

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Just now, Terra said:

Then don't keep posting. Your only adding unnecessary fuel to the flames

I am just responding to people, this is the basics of conversation and a healthy discussion. You come with an arguement, I respond with another one. The matter itself is sensitive one and bound to be a heated one, which may actually result in something good for the forums here. It seems that many people have been feeling that way judging from some responses. Having someone come here saying I don't care doesn't help the conversation.

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Just now, ZOLANTON said:

I am just responding to people, this is the basics of conversation and a healthy discussion. You come with an arguement, I respond with another one. The matter itself is sensitive one and bound to be a heated one, which may actually result in something good for the forums here. It seems that many people have been feeling that way judging from some responses. Having someone come here saying I don't care doesn't help the conversation.

I didnt try to tell you that i dont care. I tried to tell you that you take it so serious that it becomes weird. Just let it go and live on.

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@ZOLANTON "My question is this; How do you all know that I used a different save file and it wasn't my own save file that triggered it"

 

My question is this; How can you prove you didn't use a savefile?

 

Don't you think that with that excuse every person who used a savefile and said their "mind was clear" and "how can you prove" should be unflagged too, that's not how rules work.

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This whole "Dispute" thing is getting ridiculous now. Also, I agree that if you can't prove that he/she did it, the person is innocent. This whole FIFA 09 thing is the worst I have seen on this forum. People are getting angry, never seen that before. It used to be a peaceful community.

 

FIFA 09 should be white listed IMO, or at least that particular trophy. It's not worth splitting the community apart for one freaking trophy. I have a hard time believing that everybody cheated on this game so easily. If you can use a save other than your own for popping the trophy, it's a glitch in the game. Copy pasting a save is not cheating IMO, more so if it's your own.

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I started reading this thread and i was supporting the idea that a user should be able to remove his content from this site should he choose.  I stand by that being his right, but man is this ever a case of "you guys are being mean, so I am taking my ball and going home".  The work put into the guides is yours, and you can choose to do with it what you want, but reacting like this just proves that you were not being entirely selfless when you made the guides.  If the sole reason you made the guides was to help others on the games, then you would have just removed your account, but left your work to help others in the future...

 

As for this whole "guilty before innocent" argument, it also seems kind of silly.  There is no guilt or innocence here.  A flagged game does not immediately mean you cheated, it means that there is no evidence to support the fact that trophy popped properly.  You could have fallen victim to a hacked online lobby, you could have experienced a glitch that made trophies pop out of order, it doesn't matter.  All that does matter is that there is no way for you to prove that you earned it using your save and your work.  Given the game in question, it is highly probably (many would argue even beyond a reasonable doubt) that this trophy did not come from your own save.  If it did, that sucks for you, but how can an exception be made for you simply because you say you are innocent?  By trying to use your work here as collateral, you are essentially creating a classist system where you think you should be treated differently because you are somehow better than the rest of us peasants.

 

If you happen to be the one guy who got caught with this glitch, that really sucks for you, but keeping your flag is for the betterment of the community, and you should be able to see that.  If you did cheat, then you have taken the whole anger to cover a lie bit way further than most, and I am just in awe.

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1 minute ago, Sir_Bee said:

If you happen to be the one guy who got caught with this glitch, that really sucks for you, but keeping your flag is for the betterment of the community, and you should be able to see that.  If you did cheat, then you have taken the whole anger to cover a lie bit way further than most, and I am just in awe.

Is it for the betterment of the community though? The community is spliting apart since this "Dispute" thing have been implemented. All I see now is unnecessary drama.

 

I can see getting removed from the leaderboard for obvious cheating, but does FIFA 09 is obvious cheating though? I'm not so sure about that. The game or Sony should recognized that the save is not your own. We're talking about a 8 years old game.

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1 minute ago, Cyanpower said:

Is it for the betterment of the community though? The community is spliting apart since this "Dispute" thing have been implemented. All I see now is unnecessary drama.

 

I can see getting removed from the leaderboard for obvious cheating, but does FIFA 09 is obvious cheating though? I'm not so sure about that. The game or Sony should recognized that the save is not your own. We're talking about a 8 years old game.

 

And there in lies the problem: the game is 8 years old. Why are people still giving a crap about a sports game in which (as far as I know) nobody plays anymore?

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Alright so I am going to make one last post about this and hopefully people will take some time to read over the entire thread, digest what's written in it and then come back with a cooler head, or at least the staff make an official say on this.

  • I see people defending and attacking my case. This makes the whole thing debatable. No matter their side everyone keeps asking for proof but they also can't prove the opposite. So we have my word against the rest. True I can't prove I didn't use a save file other than mine, but you can't prove that I did. Are you going to label me as a cheater because you are not in the same boat?
  • I see that it's not if someone has cheated, it's if his trophy list LOOKS suspicious. I invite you to look at games like AMY, whose trophy list among users looks the most suspicious but people are not accused of hacking there as well.
  • The cheating policy is messed up because of the above. Take a look at games like AvP and the online trophies. You find it more fair that you can use a proxy server to unlock the online trophies in minutes than having a trophy glitch in your favor? You need to reconsider what counts as cheating.
  • The whole public dispute thing is an invitation for drama. You may consider what happened so far with this thread as drama, you are welcome to think so, but I take it as potential feedback on the issues here. I find it more of a drama what has been happening to other dispute threads. It's wrong in so many levels. It seems many people have been thinking about this stuff and it's why we have so many opinions on this.
  • The whole guides thing is left on the staff. Do what you want with them, if you think they'll be useful to the site get them back, if not keep them down.
  • While people may not agree with how far I took things and how much attention I gave to this entire issue, I took it as far as I deemed it to be necessary. You may not care about such things as pride, but I do. If you don't, you are welcome to think so, but this involves other issues as well. If you don't care, then you can flag yourself in some games and just hide them. It's not that important according to you anyway.

To most people participating in this discussion thank you for understanding, especially the last few posts. Truly thank you. Reading some of the more reasonable responses lean me to put the guides back. I need to go to work, probably will come back much later to check on the discussion.

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Just now, GarciaFever said:

 

And there in lies the problem: the game is 8 years old. Why are people still giving a crap about a sports game in which (as far as I know) nobody plays anymore?

Exactly. One or two person is on a flagging spree for a 8 years old game and splitting the community apart. How ridiculous is that?

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