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Monox18

Monox18's Dispute

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Monox18

Ninja Gaiden Σ2
Hi PSNprofiles & Sergen, <br /> <br /> Thank you for calling me a competent player and saying that I deserve an opportunity to explain myself in your YouTube video. So I will proceed to explain myself.<br /> <br /> I will keep this short but whatever you need you can ask me.<br /> <br /> I acknowledge that I used a savegame with the purpose to recover a similar save after losing my game data. I did not use it with the purpose of unlocking trophies. I believe people should be flagged as cheaters for using savegames to unlock trophies. My reasons are different. My PS3 got corrupted, had to factory reset it, lost all my games and savedatas, inclusing NGS2 so I searched for another save to get back on track and continue playing the game. <br /> <br /> As proof of my statement take this into account. People with that save games have the following UN mission records:<br /> UN01 - 7 <br /> UN02 - 4<br /> UN03 - 13<br /> UN04 - 44<br /> UN05 - 11<br /> <br /> My records are:<br /> UN01 - 8<br /> UN02 - 5<br /> UN03 - 14<br /> UN04 - 47<br /> UN05 - 15<br /> <br /> The trophy requirements are to beat each mission atleast once. And my records prove that I beat each mission atleast once. (and a couple of times before losing my savegame as well). Also, my blade of archfiend has 3676 kills with a 999 combo while others have around 2412 kills with a low combo. This is the main weapon for team missions. <br /> <br /> As for beating master ninja mode, I remember repeating the entire SP (Not chapter challenge mode) just for fun. Therefore, I should have records on each chapter individually for normal story mode, with the exception of those chapters who failed to successfully load. (Right now I don't remember if you can have separate scores for normal mode and chapter challenge mode on the leaderboard and I don't have the game with me anymore, so can you please check this out for me?). Worst case scenario, if I don't have records, I'm willing to buy the game again, beat any chapters you want on master ninja and send you videos. <br /> <br /> Those 2 statements should prove my intentions with the savegame data. <br /> <br /> Final side note, you helped me with many missions on both Ninja Gaiden 3 and Ninja Gaiden 3 - Razors Edge. I will always be grateful for that, thanks to you I got the coop trophies. You said I'm a competent player so you clearly know I can beat that game on master ninja and don't need to use hacks to unlock trophies.<br /> <br /> Let me know what you think, tnx!<br /> Happy hunting.

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The reasons for using save files is indecipherable to this community. The only fair and consistent thing possible to do is flag all indications of save loading. It's certainly not fair to the Leaderboards if everyone else played without using a save file, but some people are allowed for any particular reason. 

Edited by DaivRules
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Hey, the formatting got fucked, but anyway... Here's what I have to say about this. It's a bit hard to pinpoint whether you used the save for your platinum run in particular, but you did improve the scores that the original save had for the most part so to combat this, I'd personally say you should probably provide evidence based on your gameplay, if you're as good as you say you are that is. 

 

The post he made is this YouTube comment

 

tdS2HaF.png

 

and the video that shows off his save data is here: 

 

In the description of that video are times of the video that show the person who is in question. Based on past experiences with Monox18 here, I feel it is feasible that he downloaded a save file after he got the platinum, because I've played NG games with him before and he is significantly better than other platinum achievers, however this is a complicated dilemma since multiple people use the same save as you, but Monox18 was the only person I've found who completed runs for Ultimate Ninja 01, 02 and 03, which are the three hardest missions, I'd like to think if someone has completed these missions after getting the platinum then it is likely that they did it in a legit way. 

 

If you still have your ninja clip for UN1, 2 and 3 Monox18 then you should share those as they will support your case. I saw your Master Ninja 03 uploaded ninja clip, I don't mind uploading that here because it does demonstrate a decent amount of skill on this game if I remember correctly. 

 

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Is there anything wrong with their trophy list? Were they only reported because they've clearly used a save file because of the leaderboard scores?

 

If there is something wrong with their trophy list, then I don't think this will be lifted, especially since it seems he has admitted to using a save file for this, regardless of he can accomplish it now or he has accomplished it in the past.

 

If it can only be shown that he has used the save file, but it is unknown if they did it the time they got the platinum, I don't see this flag sticking. :\

Edited by MMDE
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1 minute ago, MMDE said:

Is there anything wrong with their trophy list? Were they only reported because they've clearly used a save file because of the leaderboard scores?

 

If there is something wrong with their trophy list, then I don't think this will be lifted, regardless of he can accomplish it now or he has accomplished it in the past.

 

If it can only be shown that he has used the save file, but it is unknown if they did it the time they got the platinum, I don't see this flag sticking. :\

 

The trophy list can be prepared fairly easily with a platinum save, but all his trophies are in the correct order for this. The thing that intrigues me about him is how he's improved the progress of the game with this save, he's beaten some of the times on missions but not any of the chapters and it cannot be a coincidence that four people share the same scores for chapters. The thing with missions is, anyone can twirl them and all the times he has for missions are times I can beat with someone who doesn't put any work in, so I'm not sure if he would have gone and asked a good player to help him get more completions of missions to not look suspicious with this save, not many people are looking into the finer details of these saves like I do. 

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Hi DaivRules, What you say is true, reasons for using savegames in indecipherable. Therefore, I shouldn't be flagged for something that is not proven. Flagging any indicator is not correct, facts should be flagged, not indicators. 

 

Serzilla, I don't have other Ultimate Ninja mission recordings. 

 

Hi MMDE, no one is complaining about anything in my list. Serzilla said all my trophies are in the correct order.

 

Serzilla, I only used the save to play trials. I was really enjoying them and played a lot. Trials are my favorite part of that game. I wasn't to replay the game again to unlock all skins and trials, so I used any save I found. Maybe I played a couple of chapters for fun, I don't remember. What I do remember is playing the entire Single Player mode, not chapter challenge, on master ninja difficulty for fun. Many, if not all, chapter should reflect this on the leaderboard. (Sometimes the score doesn't upload after beating a chapter for connection issues). 
 

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5 minutes ago, Monox18 said:

Hi DaivRules, What you say is true, reasons for using savegames in indecipherable. Therefore, I shouldn't be flagged for something that is not proven. Flagging any indicator is not correct, facts should be flagged, not indicators. 

 

 

As has been pointed out by several of the members who comment on these dispute threads, the tools for providing proof that trophies are illegitimate are not available and so they all agreed with each other that indicators are good enough. If indicators were good enough to keep other members flagged, I don't see why your admission you used a save that wasn't yours isn't good enough to keep you flagged. 

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DaviRules, That doesn't seems correct to me. It is not a votation. A GM, or whoevers decides to flag me, should do it with actual proof. Anyway, following your statements. Tell me exactly what indicator you have to prove my platinum is not legit?

 

The reason I'm being flagged is: order of trophies. There's no particular trophy being questioned. Please tell me what trophy is wrong. 

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That was mainly due to the lack of options regarding the trophies, there's not exactly an option for "used a save file of platinum achiever before them", so out of order was the best option since it kinda suits being said that you did the trophies in an out of order way if you did use the save that I proved was used by Dj-boss6 in the past before you even had the platinum. 

 

To those of you who want to compare, here's the bigger picture (literally), a side by side comparison of each save file used by the people shown in the video: http://i.imgur.com/NKN68o8.jpg

 

Unfortunately, using a save that other people have used to hack the platinum puts you in that category because there's no evidence to prove that you did any missions or chapters before using that save. Ninja clips have dates associated to them so if you had your old clips before getting the platinum then that probably would have been good enough, but I can't help you out in this scenario unless you can prove that you did some things before you earned the platinum.  

 

Edited by Serzilla
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Serzilla, I don't remember well but I'm sure you can only have one ninja clip uploaded. And I have one uploaded. That ninja clip shows me playing a hard trial with a partner & beating it. My numbers also prove that I beat all UN missions, when compared to the others. This means I did actually play the trials and beat them myself. The rest of the stats remains unchanged because I didn't do anything more than playing trials after I got that savegame. The savegame overwrote my original data. So only the new trial data is what is new in those stats. Having overwritten numbers don't disprove that I got all my trophies in a legit way. I trained my ass countless of days to beat those trials. You played with me, you saw me and helped with coop trials in other ninja games. 

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Did any trophies trigger as a result of you downloading the save? 

Also the problem is with downloading a save, even if used to simply recover a lost save of your own is it gives you stats/records that you yourself did not obtain.

Whether you have since been able to get to the same point/surpass the stats that the save had is irrelevant.

It sucks that you lost your game saves, but you should have started from the beginning instead of downloading someone else's save.

 

Downloaded saves in any fashion is frowned upon on this site.

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Hi xD4rK_By_D3s1gNx, no trophies were triggered. I had the platinum before. I stated on my first comment and also the YouTube comment that I used only to continue playing the gaming and that I had beaten UN missions before that as well.

 

About the stats/records, I understand that having stats/records that I didn't obtain may be offensive for other people who are competing to be number one. I'm far far away on any leaderboard from being number in that game. I don't think this offends anyone but if you want I can simply buy the game, start it from 0 and upload new scores. this should put everything on 0. Does this work for you? I really don't care about my stats on the leaderboard. I only care about the platinum. I love that game. It has been the hardest game I ever played and was damn proud of beating it 100% and is my number one in my trophy cabinet (even though I have rarer trophies).

 

About restarting from the beginning, well just put yourself in my shoes. I had a game which I player over a year. It takes 7 times to platinum. One day I lost all this. It was gone man. Can you imagine how angry I was? I simply wanted to have another savegame close to where I was. Specially for the reason that I was decided to beat UN01 2x Ryu, this was my final mission before moving on, being cheap with Rachel was not enough for me. In order to have everything unlocked for trials I think you need to beat it 3-4 times for all costumes. Sorry man, I was not going to start from scratch, it hurts. I hope you understand this.

 

Yes, I understand why downloading games is frowned. We all hate cheaters man.

 

Btw, I won't be replying until like many hours from now. Going bed soon. Will reply tomorrow any replies. 

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If you already had the plat before downloading the save and that fact can be distinguished then there should be no reason for the flag.

 

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3 minutes ago, xD4rK_By_D3s1gNx said:

If you already had the plat before downloading the save and that fact can be distinguished then there should be no reason for the flag.

 

I would go further than that and say that unless it can be proven that a save was used while trophies were still being earned then there is no basis for a flag. That is of course assuming there is nothing suspicious about the trophy timestamps themselves.

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I don't know the game but if your trophies have all been earned before downloading the save there's no reason to flag you. 

 

So unless someone can provide evidence your trophies were earned out of order, too quick or whatever I'm certain your flag will be lifted. 

Edited by iAlphaSoldier
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7 hours ago, DaivRules said:

 

As has been pointed out by several of the members who comment on these dispute threads, the tools for providing proof that trophies are illegitimate are not available and so they all agreed with each other that indicators are good enough. If indicators were good enough to keep other members flagged, I don't see why your admission you used a save that wasn't yours isn't good enough to keep you flagged. 

 

This is a very weird and unique case...

 

On the one hand: The user definitely used a save game, which usually is reason enough to get a flag or have a flag remain in place.

 

However: our main concern is trophies.

 

Main question: If he loaded up a save that wasn't his but that did not immediately unlock any trophies he did not have yet, does that still count as cheating?

 

Seeing as the trophy list looks fine (according to others, I have not played the game), my gut feeling would say this is not cheating and the flag should be lifted. The loading of the save apparently did not mess up his trophy list, and if he actually worked for all his trophies, then why would it be cheating?

 

Unless there's a big grinding part he skipped or something...

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He admits to downloading a save online to skip a good portion of the game after supposedly having done that portion legit but lost the save with the progress.

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1 minute ago, MMDE said:

He admits to downloading a save online to skip a good portion of the game after supposedly having done that portion legit but lost the save with the progress.

 

That's my whole point though - don't the trophies reflect that he did that portion of the game legit himself? (or at least, does it not look like he cheated?)

 

Comparison: not too long ago, I played Uncharted 4 again. Turns out I had deleted my old save, so I had to start from scratch - no collectables, and no unlimited ammo or weapons. Now, I just replayed the game on very easy with a guide for the collectables, but if I had downloaded a save that had a completed game without collectables, I could have started on crushing with unlimited ammo and my choice of weapons and my trophy list would not have reflected that. Would that still be classified as cheating? Unless I spoke up, how would anyone have known, and what difference would it have made?

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1 minute ago, BillyHorrible said:

 

That's my whole point though - don't the trophies reflect that he did that portion of the game legit himself? (or at least, does it not look like he cheated?)

 

Comparison: not too long ago, I played Uncharted 4 again. Turns out I had deleted my old save, so I had to start from scratch - no collectables, and no unlimited ammo or weapons. Now, I just replayed the game on very easy with a guide for the collectables, but if I had downloaded a save that had a completed game without collectables, I could have started on crushing with unlimited ammo and my choice of weapons and my trophy list would not have reflected that. Would that still be classified as cheating? Unless I spoke up, how would anyone have known, and what difference would it have made?

 

Yeah, I know, I just tried to sum it up in a short post! :P 

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Just now, MMDE said:

 

Yeah, I know, I just tried to sum it up in a short post! :P 

 

Here I got a notification that you quoted me and I actually hoped you had some valid arguments on why this should still be flagged.

 

Because I'm really confused about this one, I really have no idea what my own opinion on this even is, I'm just going by gut feeling.

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20 minutes ago, BillyHorrible said:

 

Here I got a notification that you quoted me and I actually hoped you had some valid arguments on why this should still be flagged.

 

Because I'm really confused about this one, I really have no idea what my own opinion on this even is, I'm just going by gut feeling.

 

If I get this right, to do these special missions that he did after downloading a save, they require that you first beat the game several times. Right? If so, is there any trophies for this? If not, then that could have been the reason for downloading the save at this point. I mean even if they did the special missions legit, they may have cheated their way to it. But I guess since nothing is out of order, such a trophy would be there looking legit... :P 

Edited by MMDE
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Comment removed.

Edited by Nuttro93
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1 minute ago, MMDE said:

 

If I get this right, to do these special missions that he did after downloading a save, they require that you first beat the game several times. Right? If so, is there any trophies for this? If not, then that could have been the reason for downloading the save at this point. I mean even if they did the special missions legit, they may have cheated their way to it.

 

I don't know anything about the game. If this is true, then there's possibly too little time in between the first beating of the game and the trophies that came afterwards.

 

1 minute ago, Nuttro93 said:

It sucks your save corrupted, but I would have redone the progress myself. I did in fact have a corruption on this game, I had an old version backed up but I still had to redo some of the game.
In fact, in Borderlands I lost my save with only 6 dlc trophies left for the 100%. I redid everything in the game to get my progress back to where it corrupted.

Moral of the story I guess is to pick yourself back up and not resort to illegitimate means.

 

Yeah my personal opinion would be to either redo the game or just ignore the unobtained trophies., but seeing as (apparently/possibly) nothing in the trophy list shows any harm...

 

I like to see what the official staff opinion on this is going to be.

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First, I'll just say that I don't know anything about this game in particular. So I'm assuming the trophy timestamps are fine. If they aren't, someone who's familiar with the game needs to say what's wrong with them.

 

I think it's important to clarify that Monox18 has said that he only downloaded a save file after he had earned the platinum trophy, and that his reasons for doing so were to play the trials for fun. Surely, trophies can't be deemed illegitimate based on something that happens after they were earned?

 

So then the issue here is whether the leaderboard scores are enough proof that Monox18 cheated while earning the trophies. I personally don't think they are.

 

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I don't think you should be flagged for this personally. If your trophies are earnt legitimately and your trophy list doesn't look cheated in any way then that should be the end of it. This is a trophy site after all, not a NGS2 leaderboard site.

Edited by ryankamal1998
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