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Suggestion - White List for Trophies / Games?


White Listing...  

548 members have voted

  1. 1. Should we have a white list for games like the ones described in the OP?

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    • Undecided/Divided Opinion...
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23 hours ago, ProfBambam55 said:

people are already getting screwed by no fault of their own as far as I'm concerned so here's to hoping hackers are prevented from making these kinds of menus that can auto-pop other peoples' trophies from now on...

 

But that's not really an option as PSNP or any other trophy site doesn't have control over how trophies pop on games. There is nothing Sony and the devs can really do about either, apart from Sony banning CFW systems when they're detected.

 

So it really is a fact PSNP has to adapt to how Sony's trophy system works, not the other way around. Makes it rather a shameful situation not for the victims of mod menus, but for PSNP not to address this.

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2 hours ago, ars said:

 

But that's not really an option as PSNP or any other trophy site doesn't have control over how trophies pop on games. There is nothing Sony and the devs can really do about either, apart from Sony banning CFW systems when they're detected.

 

So it really is a fact PSNP has to adapt to how Sony's trophy system works, not the other way around. Makes it rather a shameful situation not for the victims of mod menus, but for PSNP not to address this.

 

2 hours ago, Sergen said:

I say instead of implementing a system that removes the report options for the games, the flagging team should simply be aware of these games and avoid flagging any people who are victims of modded trophies in game lobbies. Remember, this website tries to emulate what Sony's Terms and Conditions prohibit, the T's & C's don't say anything along the lines of "avoid modded lobbies that unlock your trophies, you have a chance of being banned for participating in them", now of course you can say "some people do hack the games, they'll just blame it on this", so what? If they intend to hack trophies on their profile, they'll probably make a mistake down the line on a non-whitelisted game and get caught. If Sony and any game developers for games that this happens to don't care that it happens, PSNP shouldn't take the responsibility of trying to punish the people who are the victims. Not everyone is thinking instinctively "Omg, I need to delete these trophies, I'll be flagged on PSNP if I don't", people would instinctively think to look at their trophies and sometimes they're in Online mode, or the game will sync when they try to view the trophy list from the XMB. I do believe instead of manually implementing a white-list to the games, the games should just be disputable or the reports should be ignored if the trophy unlocks are similar to cases of auto-popped trophies in modded lobbies. I believe the reason for not implementing your white-list is likely a thought process of "we flagged way too many people for this already, it's going to be impossible to undo all the flags", but I believe if a white-list in the form of ignoring reports of the nature or allowing people to dispute the flags in the dispute threads should allow for previously flagged people who care about having the game on their to list dispute it. People's excuse tends to often be "Well... it'll take away from people who did it all legit", none of you people say that about games that have glitches discovered after people already spent a long time grinding before the glitches. It's perfectly fine to join a trophy world on Minecraft where someone else has done all the work to prepare you for a fast platinum, but it's not okay to join a lobby on a popular online game and have trophies unlocked for you when your intention wasn't to join and have that happen to you. A majority of members who checked out this thread left a vote that would support the white-listing of these games, I do feel that it would be beneficial to support what the majority of members indicated interest in. I can understand that it would take time and effort to implement a white-list manually, so the dispute idea is what I personally would like to propose and be ignored for. 

Yeah, I agree with you guys on this...unfortunately, our hands are tied for now...the disputes will make some of us shake our heads and it's even possible that some people will be removed from the site stats entirely over these types trophies...in the end, and I don't like saying this, the reality is that it's not our site or our call so we'll just have to move forward and see what happens...the idea is here and open for discussion so perhaps someday it'll be one worth considering and delving into further...

 

sergen, if you'd like to propose an idea for disputes, all the power to you...if anyone else has other ideas they are welcome here...my suggestion would be to run them by sly and see what happens...it's possible this thread will be somewhat ignored for the time being...

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On 07/08/2017 at 1:49 PM, ProfBambam55 said:

 

Yeah, I agree with you guys on this...unfortunately, our hands are tied for now...the disputes will make some of us shake our heads and it's even possible that some people will be removed from the site stats entirely over these types trophies...in the end, and I don't like saying this, the reality is that it's not our site or our call so we'll just have to move forward and see what happens...the idea is here and open for discussion so perhaps someday it'll be one worth considering and delving into further...

 

sergen, if you'd like to propose an idea for disputes, all the power to you...if anyone else has other ideas they are welcome here...my suggestion would be to run them by sly and see what happens...it's possible this thread will be somewhat ignored for the time being...

 

I've never been a victim of a modded lobby before, but personally I'd have liked some form of security if a game I play does end up having this issue and I'm caught up in it. I never want to have to hide trophies or lose out on having a platinum because of an issue that wasn't my fault, I can sympathise with people that it happens to. By flagging people for things that happen in these games, you're essentially telling them to stop playing multiplayer games, since every game has a risk of this happening. 

 

I know it's not our site, however where would the website be without any of us? Many of us got a premium membership, we contribute to the discussion on the forums, we visit very often. Without any of the people who take this website seriously and support it, the website very likely wouldn't be here, that is why I believe it is in the best interests to support what the majority of your members believe in, even if it's not something that you personally agree with. 

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Ah, @Sergen couldn't agree more...I don't know the reason the idea was rejected so can't comment much further in these regards...the fact that no action whatsoever was taken kind of highlights that our flag system takes more pride in casting suspicion on legit gamers and removing cheaters than just making sure the leaderboards have somewhat realistic trophy times...as in "it's not your trophies we want off the leaderboards, it's you"...what's slightly embarrassing to me is that the people flagging for the trophies mentioned in our white list are likely well aware of this thread's existence...

 

in the end, we've done our best to openly discuss the idea and present it in a reasonable, respectful manner...aside from a few minor hiccups, this has been one of the most constructive threads I've seen in recent times on here and am very appreciative of everyone's feedback...another quick shout out to all that participated...not much else we can do at this point but move on and let things be as they are...our leaderboards will never be clean so here's to hoping the current flag system doesn't push away too many potentially productive members of the community who play games as sony, psnp, and the majority of us encourage...legit...

 

edit: i just checked the black ops 2 guide...it doesn't even say that big leagues or the plat are unattainable...seems strange... @BlindMango could you edit a note into the guide for these two trophies saying they are unachievable plz?...the cutoff for big leagues is December, 2015 I believe...might help future gamers...I pm'd the author but it appears they haven't been active in a long time...

 

2nd edit: (to below) thanks mango that was super quick...

Edited by ProfBambam55
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  • 2 weeks later...

Salute! i've had 2 friends who were crying out of pain since they did every DLC and base game trophy for BO2 all legit but unfortunately didn't manage to be on time when Big Leagues was still obtainable... even i myself feel shame about getting Giant Accomplishment, Prestieging, and all Zombie base game trophies and at the end get flagged for a game many of my friends play for fun. people will say use an alternate account if you know that there are the odds of me ending up in a lobby with a modder but honestly nobody likes to have different accounts to play different specific games. 

On 8/7/2017 at 0:44 PM, Sergen said:

I say instead of implementing a system that removes the report options for the games, the flagging team should simply be aware of these games and avoid flagging any people who are victims of modded trophies in game lobbies. Remember, this website tries to emulate what Sony's Terms and Conditions prohibit, the T's & C's don't say anything along the lines of "avoid modded lobbies that unlock your trophies, you have a chance of being banned for participating in them", now of course you can say "some people do hack the games, they'll just blame it on this", so what? If they intend to hack trophies on their profile, they'll probably make a mistake down the line on a non-whitelisted game and get caught. If Sony and any game developers for games that this happens to don't care that it happens, PSNP shouldn't take the responsibility of trying to punish the people who are the victims. Not everyone is thinking instinctively "Omg, I need to delete these trophies, I'll be flagged on PSNP if I don't", people would instinctively think to look at their trophies and sometimes they're in Online mode, or the game will sync when they try to view the trophy list from the XMB. I do believe instead of manually implementing a white-list to the games, the games should just be disputable or the reports should be ignored if the trophy unlocks are similar to cases of auto-popped trophies in modded lobbies. I believe the reason for not implementing your white-list is likely a thought process of "we flagged way too many people for this already, it's going to be impossible to undo all the flags", but I believe if a white-list in the form of ignoring reports of the nature or allowing people to dispute the flags in the dispute threads should allow for previously flagged people who care about having the game on their to list dispute it. People's excuse tends to often be "Well... it'll take away from people who did it all legit", none of you people say that about games that have glitches discovered after people already spent a long time grinding before the glitches. It's perfectly fine to join a trophy world on Minecraft where someone else has done all the work to prepare you for a fast platinum, but it's not okay to join a lobby on a popular online game and have trophies unlocked for you when your intention wasn't to join and have that happen to you. A majority of members who checked out this thread left a vote that would support the white-listing of these games, I do feel that it would be beneficial to support what the majority of members indicated interest in. I can understand that it would take time and effort to implement a white-list manually, so the dispute idea is what I personally would like to propose and be ignored for. 

 

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I'm personally against the idea of white-listing any game, purely due to the fact that people can simply claim they unwittingly entered a hacked lobby and provide no evidence to support their claim, simply taking someone's word without evidence is foolishness in any situation. Whether or not the individual intended to get trophies through a hacked lobby is a moot point, regardless of their intent, the trophies were obtained illegitimately in accordance to the rules of this site, so in my view, they should still get a strike, since they broke the rules.

 

I am also aware that the absence of proof of innocence is not proof of guilt, but it should be still be enough to make anyone have their doubts. The dispute system as it is works for the most part, even if some people are overly zealous in condemning people hastily.

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1 hour ago, Lady Blanc said:

I'm personally against the idea of white-listing any game, purely due to the fact that people can simply claim they unwittingly entered a hacked lobby and provide no evidence to support their claim, simply taking someone's word without evidence is foolishness in any situation. Whether or not the individual intended to get trophies through a hacked lobby is a moot point, regardless of their intent, the trophies were obtained illegitimately in accordance to the rules of this site, so in my view, they should still get a strike, since they broke the rules.

 

I am also aware that the absence of proof of innocence is not proof of guilt, but it should be still be enough to make anyone have their doubts. The dispute system as it is works for the most part, even if some people are overly zealous in condemning people hastily.

The dispute system was created to remove illegitimate trophies from the leaderboards, that and only that.

Not to condemn or belittle people. Everyone needs to keep this in mind. 

Edited by Dav9834
Phone keyboard likes to put in different words ><
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On 20/08/2017 at 1:41 AM, Lady Blanc said:

I'm personally against the idea of white-listing any game, purely due to the fact that people can simply claim they unwittingly entered a hacked lobby and provide no evidence to support their claim, simply taking someone's word without evidence is foolishness in any situation. Whether or not the individual intended to get trophies through a hacked lobby is a moot point, regardless of their intent, the trophies were obtained illegitimately in accordance to the rules of this site, so in my view, they should still get a strike, since they broke the rules.

 

I am also aware that the absence of proof of innocence is not proof of guilt, but it should be still be enough to make anyone have their doubts. The dispute system as it is works for the most part, even if some people are overly zealous in condemning people hastily.

 

Tell me, which rule in Sony's Terms and Conditions prohibits the joining of public game lobbies? Modders affect people who do not have anything to do with that sort of behaviour and PSN doesn't tell you "avoid games that have a reputation for modders, you'll be banned for this". I've already mentioned that people MIGHT hack the games independently, but you're letting a few rotten apples ruin the bunch, because I'm incredibly sure that MANY people get the trophies through no fault of their own and if their other timestamps reflect that, it should be fair for them to not be flagged. Anyone who got prestige in multiplayer for Black Ops 2, on top of doing every Zombies easter-egg and getting Giant Accomplishment would most certainly have the ability to get Big Leagues legitimately if the league play feature was still working, no platinum achiever for Black Ops 2 before the issue ever references Big Leagues as having been a tough trophy, it's even considered one of the easy trophies for the game. 

 

If you didn't mod your own console or download someone else's save to unlock the trophies then you didn't break any rules, you broke PSNP's rules but they don't speak for the whole of PSN, most people who have the issue won't think "I need to delete my entire profile and back up all my saves because PSNP frowns upon this". If someone is a hacker who independently hacks the trophies for Black Ops 2, there's a high chance that they'll also hack a game that is not white-listed and that will be what gets them flagged, I've never heard of anyone who hacked Black Ops 2 themselves who didn't hack other games on their profile as well. 

Edited by Sergen
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17 hours ago, Sergen said:

 

Tell me, which rule in Sony's Terms and Conditions prohibits the joining of public game lobbies? Modders affect people who do not have anything to do with that sort of behaviour and PSN doesn't tell you "avoid games that have a reputation for modders, you'll be banned for this". I've already mentioned that people MIGHT hack the games independently, but you're letting a few rotten apples ruin the bunch, because I'm incredibly sure that MANY people get the trophies through no fault of their own and if their other timestamps reflect that, it should be fair for them to not be flagged. Anyone who got prestige in multiplayer for Black Ops 2, on top of doing every Zombies easter-egg and getting Giant Accomplishment would most certainly have the ability to get Big Leagues legitimately if the league play feature was still working, no platinum achiever for Black Ops 2 before the issue ever references Big Leagues as having been a tough trophy, it's even considered one of the easy trophies for the game. 

 

If you didn't mod your own console or download someone else's save to unlock the trophies then you didn't break any rules, you broke PSNP's rules but they don't speak for the whole of PSN, most people who have the issue won't think "I need to delete my entire profile and back up all my saves because PSNP frowns upon this". If someone is a hacker who independently hacks the trophies for Black Ops 2, there's a high chance that they'll also hack a game that is not white-listed and that will be what gets them flagged, I've never heard of anyone who hacked Black Ops 2 themselves who didn't hack other games on their profile as well. 

Read my post more carefully before going into a big rant next time, not once did I ever mention the violation of Sony's ToS, I ONLY mentioned this site's rules, you also never touch on the fact that I said someone can simply say that they entered a hacked lobby, when they were in fact the one doing the hacking.

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I think if you whitelist a certain game, then that game should not count for the leaderboards as well as the three strike limit if you are flagged for it.

 

That way you don't get flagged if you are a fair player who got "hacked", and you can't use the game to your credit in the rankings if you cheated.

 

That's the fairest solution I can think of without extensive consideration.

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1 hour ago, Lady Blanc said:

Read my post more carefully before going into a big rant next time, not once did I ever mention the violation of Sony's ToS, I ONLY mentioned this site's rules, you also never touch on the fact that I said someone can simply say that they entered a hacked lobby, when they were in fact the one doing the hacking.

 

You should take your own advice next time too, since he actually mentions that people who actually hacks their Black Ops 2 trophies will also hack other game lists too. To be more precise, one wouldn't only use a hack/mod menu to pop his trophies in Black Ops 2 since to have those working you need a CFW Playstation 3, i.e it's much easier to just unlock trophies using other cfw than going through the hassle of getting a specific mod for Black Ops 2 and only to be also flagged because of those trophies autopopping.

 

Also, the mention of PSNP rules is quite simply: any psn profile gets added to PSNP database whenever someone types it's ID and hit update user. So basically, people who didn't ever knew about PSNProfiles beforehand is going to get flagged upon other people adding him in the database unknowingly. Quite a bad way to welcome joining members to display they have a flag for something they didn't even know about.

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2 hours ago, Lady Blanc said:

Read my post more carefully before going into a big rant next time, not once did I ever mention the violation of Sony's ToS, I ONLY mentioned this site's rules, you also never touch on the fact that I said someone can simply say that they entered a hacked lobby, when they were in fact the one doing the hacking.

 

So you'd rather see hundreds of people who did nothing wrong get flagged on the speculation that 1 person hacked it themselves? This website uses the Terms and Conditions for PlayStation Network as a basis of setting the rules, that's why things like discussing gamesharing isn't allowed, they wouldn't want to get in trouble for things that Sony doesn't like. But there isn't a rule in the Ts & Cs for PSN that state "You are prohibited from joining public game lobbies for various games such as: Grand Theft Auto IV, Grand Theft Auto V and Call of Duty: Black Ops II, these games have been known to have frequent modders who perform actions that affect your game, joining online lobbies on these games may put your account at risk of being banned". Now, PSNProfiles says they're not affiliated with Sony or PlayStation in any way, but this website is trying to dictate what people can and cannot play on their PSN account. If you're going to give people punishments for simply playing Black Ops II then you're telling them to never play the game again because trophy unlocking can happen to anyone who plays it, even if they did not mod their console or download a save file. Because Activision, Rockstar and Sony have never done anything to fix these issues on any of their games and allow it to happen, PSNProfiles should not try to police the issue themselves. By flagging people for this, you're allowing modders to win in the end because their goal is often to screw with people's games by significantly increasing their stats or screwing people over with their trophies, I'd much rather see no people get flagged for the games than see honest people who never hacked games previously getting flagged. 

Edited by Sergen
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3 hours ago, Macabro said:

I think if you whitelist a certain game, then that game should not count for the leaderboards as well as the three strike limit if you are flagged for it.

 

That way you don't get flagged if you are a fair player who got "hacked", and you can't use the game to your credit in the rankings if you cheated.

 

That's the fairest solution I can think of without extensive consideration.

Don't get me wrong. I love the idea of this because it really does suck for individuals who ended up in a hacked lobby by accident and got their shit wrecked by someone else. However, to implement a strategy such as this would require a diligent task force for lack of a better phrase to create a definitive list and continually update it as more mods, hacks, et cetera are brought into the realm. 

Edited by TristanBrown17
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6 hours ago, Macabro said:

I think if you whitelist a certain game, then that game should not count for the leaderboards as well as the three strike limit if you are flagged for it.

 

That way you don't get flagged if you are a fair player who got "hacked", and you can't use the game to your credit in the rankings if you cheated.

 

That's the fairest solution I can think of without extensive consideration.

That was the original idea : (

 

 

3 hours ago, TristanBrown17 said:

Don't get me wrong. I love the idea of this because it really does suck for individuals who ended up in a hacked lobby by accident and got their shit wrecked by someone else. However, to implement a strategy such as this would require a diligent task force for lack of a better phrase to create a definitive list and continually update it as more mods, hacks, et cetera are brought into the realm. 

It'd be less work than now actually in the long run because it would bypass disputes and could be automated. 

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On 8/20/2017 at 3:41 AM, Lady Blanc said:

I'm personally against the idea of white-listing any game, purely due to the fact that people can simply claim they unwittingly entered a hacked lobby and provide no evidence to support their claim, simply taking someone's word without evidence is foolishness in any situation. Whether or not the individual intended to get trophies through a hacked lobby is a moot point, regardless of their intent, the trophies were obtained illegitimately in accordance to the rules of this site, so in my view, they should still get a strike, since they broke the rules.

 

On 8/20/2017 at 5:09 AM, Dav9834 said:

The dispute system was created to remove illegitimate trophies from the leaderboards, that and only that.

Not to condemn or belittle people. Everyone needs to keep this in mind. 

 

I'd hate to bring this up again but since the same discussion is doing it's rounds once more, let's have another reality check.

 

Blanc is neglecting this site endorses wittingly entering a hacked instance on RDR to artificially boost your RP. It's also a commonly accepted practice to USB import your save on Fuse to artificially inflate your credits during EA cloud sync. And on Dead Island games carry weapons impossible within the game's spawn ruleset, that were only created through save file editing and then dropped on the ground in co-op mode. Souls series. Borderlands. It's a save editor smorgasbord and all you have to do is go exploit public lobbies.

 

All of these examples create an "indirect hack" where "impossible" trophy completion times and by definition of PSNP rules, "illegitimate" trophies just got possible and while not legitimate, legitimate enough for no one to be able to prove their illegitimacy. Because someone else did it, not you, or at least you can argue it that way. There is no difference in this new batch of games apart from popping too fast for your liking. Games like these are on the leaderboards, they're accepted in there and they're there to stay. Why people keep playing the legitimacy trump card when all the evidence dictates it doesn't work and it's impossible to uphold, completely escapes me. Mind you this is the first time where there is a high chance players didn't even willingly attempt to exploit their game.

 

You really need to go back to catching script kiddies who failed at save importing. Just accept the fact what is possible within a computer software's scope depends fully on the software and it's current state. Not you, not a public company that is providing you tools to grief the software's owners and profiting from it. Only the software. Plain and simple. It's PSNP and it's users that need to adjust in the ever-changing world, not the game or people who did the shameful act of - gasp - buying a game and playing it.

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1 hour ago, ars said:

 

 

 

I'd hate to bring this up again but since the same discussion is doing it's rounds once more, let's have another reality check.

 

Blanc is neglecting this site endorses wittingly entering a hacked instance on RDR to artificially boost your RP. It's also a commonly accepted practice to USB import your save on Fuse to artificially inflate your credits during EA cloud sync. And on Dead Island games carry weapons impossible within the game's spawn ruleset, that were only created through save file editing and then dropped on the ground in co-op mode. Souls series. Borderlands. It's a save editor smorgasbord and all you have to do is go exploit public lobbies.

 

All of these examples create an "indirect hack" where "impossible" trophy completion times and by definition of PSNP rules, "illegitimate" trophies just got possible and while not legitimate, legitimate enough for no one to be able to prove their illegitimacy. Because someone else did it, not you, or at least you can argue it that way. There is no difference in this new batch of games apart from popping too fast for your liking. Games like these are on the leaderboards, they're accepted in there and they're there to stay. Why people keep playing the legitimacy trump card when all the evidence dictates it doesn't work and it's impossible to uphold, completely escapes me. Mind you this is the first time where there is a high chance players didn't even willingly attempt to exploit their game.

 

You really need to go back to catching script kiddies who failed at save importing. Just accept the fact what is possible within a computer software's scope depends fully on the software and it's current state. Not you, not a public company that is providing you tools to grief the software's owners and profiting from it. Only the software. Plain and simple. It's PSNP and it's users that need to adjust in the ever-changing world, not the game or people who did the shameful act of - gasp - buying a game and playing it.

I can't tell if you're against what I said or not, I'm also half asleep. 

 

I was just trying to get across that the dispute system was not created to shame people, etc.

 

I agree it's a pipe dream to get all the hacked trophies off the leaderboards, it's just not possible. I think a lot agree with that. Trying to get as close as possible is ok though imo. 

 

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8 minutes ago, Dav9834 said:

I was just trying to get across that the dispute system was not created to shame people, etc.

 

I agree it's a pipe dream to get all the hacked trophies off the leaderboards, it's just not possible. I think a lot agree with that. Trying to get as close as possible is ok though imo. 

 

The sensible people on the site do understand the flagging system in general was not created to shame people, but as Blanc so elaborately brought to our attention once again, that's how it is being used. The dispute system is fine by me, I'd rather argue it's a necessity to balance out how the flagging system is being used.

 

The rest was just technical point of view, providing a multitude of examples to point out activity related to the thread is not only tolerated, but in some cases encouraged by this site. There are and will always be multiple software states per title. Whether you want to opine including all of them  on the leaderboards makes them clean, or that there is no such thing as clean leaderboards as a result is everyone's choice, but there are no other options.

 

The actual matter on this thread is a conflict of interest where gamers of certain franchise mentioned in the OP are being targeted, and others mentioned in my last post exempted, for what is playing the games in whatever their current state may be. The only thing a trophy pop indicates is a trophy being popped. The only thing the leaderboards track is whether there was a trophy pop. The only illegimate thing you can prove as illegimate, is a trophy pop that didn't happen by playing the game (ie. CFW hack or save import).

 

These are not isolated cases and there will be more, which requires - and I repeat - PSNP, the leaderboards, and the flagging system adapting to reality. Not the other way around. You can go full cleanup, PSNP could just remove speedrun tracking on all suspicious titles and enforce a no strikes gained, no progression tracked policy on them. That'd make it status quo. Or better yet, so would allowing all of these titles to exist in their current state. That's the logical and least cumbersome thing to do.

 

But ballbusting gamers of one franchise and encouraging gamers of another for what is essentially the same thing, that makes for a toxic community.

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Considering modders can unlock trophies for every person who joins a public game lobby on the games in the OP, it's basically like they fired a gun and threw it into a crowd of people and everyone in that crowd gets arrested for possession of a firearm because the gunman decided to throw the gun away. The modder is the one who originally had the firearm, unlocking trophies for everyone in the lobby was the gun being fired and throwing the gun in the crowd was getting all those people flagged. You wouldn't say the people in the crowd committed a crime, but PSNProfiles looks at it that way, but they were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time and did not want to get caught up in those problems. 

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I agree with Sergen. This should not be a guilty-until-proven-innocent thing, especially now that trophies sync automatically. Besides, how many games honestly have this problem? A small handful? If somebody is really that desperate to cheat, let them get caught on some other game, rather than punishing everybody who is unfortunate enough to run into a modder.

 

This isn't a huge deal for me, as I strongly dislike most multiplayer games, but I admit that I wouldn't even consider playing one now, knowing that my account could be at risk. What fun is that? Is it really so bad to just let a few well-known glitchy games go?

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On 22/08/2017 at 8:29 AM, Otonio_Bruno said:

 

You should take your own advice next time too, since he actually mentions that people who actually hacks their Black Ops 2 trophies will also hack other game lists too. To be more precise, one wouldn't only use a hack/mod menu to pop his trophies in Black Ops 2 since to have those working you need a CFW Playstation 3, i.e it's much easier to just unlock trophies using other cfw than going through the hassle of getting a specific mod for Black Ops 2 and only to be also flagged because of those trophies autopopping.

 

Also, the mention of PSNP rules is quite simply: any psn profile gets added to PSNP database whenever someone types it's ID and hit update user. So basically, people who didn't ever knew about PSNProfiles beforehand is going to get flagged upon other people adding him in the database unknowingly. Quite a bad way to welcome joining members to display they have a flag for something they didn't even know about.

I love how people always come up with that "if they hack one game, they'll hack more games" rhetoric, keep in mind a list can look legitimate and not be legitimate, so if a white-list ever is implemented, these hackers can simply make the white-listed games have blatantly obvious illegitimate time stamps and every other game seem legitimate to stay on the leaderboards, making a white list a rather exploitable loop hole for hackers. I did read their post as well, it's not my fault they either misread, misinterpreted or missed points in my post.

 

16 hours ago, ars said:

 

 

 

I'd hate to bring this up again but since the same discussion is doing it's rounds once more, let's have another reality check.

 

Blanc is neglecting this site endorses wittingly entering a hacked instance on RDR to artificially boost your RP. It's also a commonly accepted practice to USB import your save on Fuse to artificially inflate your credits during EA cloud sync. And on Dead Island games carry weapons impossible within the game's spawn ruleset, that were only created through save file editing and then dropped on the ground in co-op mode. Souls series. Borderlands. It's a save editor smorgasbord and all you have to do is go exploit public lobbies.

 

All of these examples create an "indirect hack" where "impossible" trophy completion times and by definition of PSNP rules, "illegitimate" trophies just got possible and while not legitimate, legitimate enough for no one to be able to prove their illegitimacy. Because someone else did it, not you, or at least you can argue it that way. There is no difference in this new batch of games apart from popping too fast for your liking. Games like these are on the leaderboards, they're accepted in there and they're there to stay. Why people keep playing the legitimacy trump card when all the evidence dictates it doesn't work and it's impossible to uphold, completely escapes me. Mind you this is the first time where there is a high chance players didn't even willingly attempt to exploit their game.

 

You really need to go back to catching script kiddies who failed at save importing. Just accept the fact what is possible within a computer software's scope depends fully on the software and it's current state. Not you, not a public company that is providing you tools to grief the software's owners and profiting from it. Only the software. Plain and simple. It's PSNP and it's users that need to adjust in the ever-changing world, not the game or people who did the shameful act of - gasp - buying a game and playing it.

I already knew of the RDR RP method, which I personally think shouldn't be promoted on this site, why a site would willingly promote a method that is against site rules is beyond me. I don't know why you mention the Souls series, as most people I've heard utilised either the item duplication glitches (Last time I checked, all but Demon's Souls had the item duplication glitches patched out.) or joining the games of people who already had the items needed for the trophies, both of which are acceptable methods and can be done without save editing, so the Souls series is a difficult (but not impossible) example to use. 

 

Since most people seem so in favour of a white list (even though I see it as highly flawed and easily exploitable), maybe not have it as a blanket white list, treat these games on a case-by-case basis, not all users with the games in question get the same treatment, makes exploitation less likely.

 

This final part is in no way directed toward the two I quoted earlier in my post, another issue with the current dispute system is not the lack of a white-list, it's the very small group of individuals who seem to post in almost every single dispute thread, even if they have no knowledge of the game, as I see it, you shouldn't post in a dispute thread unless you have played the game as well, and progressed far enough in said game to know how the disputed trophies are earned, for example, I wouldn't post in dispute threads for the games that are proposed for this white list, as I have played 2 of them, but have no knowledge of the trophies in question.

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54 minutes ago, Lady Blanc said:

I love how people always come up with that "if they hack one game, they'll hack more games" rhetoric, keep in mind a list can look legitimate and not be legitimate, so if a white-list ever is implemented, these hackers can simply make the white-listed games have blatantly obvious illegitimate time stamps and every other game seem legitimate to stay on the leaderboards, making a white list a rather exploitable loop hole for hackers. I did read their post as well, it's not my fault they either misread, misinterpreted or missed points in my post.

 

I already knew of the RDR RP method, which I personally think shouldn't be promoted on this site, why a site would willingly promote a method that is against site rules is beyond me. I don't know why you mention the Souls series, as most people I've heard utilised either the item duplication glitches (Last time I checked, all but Demon's Souls had the item duplication glitches patched out.) or joining the games of people who already had the items needed for the trophies, both of which are acceptable methods and can be done without save editing, so the Souls series is a difficult (but not impossible) example to use. 

 

Since most people seem so in favour of a white list (even though I see it as highly flawed and easily exploitable), maybe not have it as a blanket white list, treat these games on a case-by-case basis, not all users with the games in question get the same treatment, makes exploitation less likely.

 

This final part is in no way directed toward the two I quoted earlier in my post, another issue with the current dispute system is not the lack of a white-list, it's the very small group of individuals who seem to post in almost every single dispute thread, even if they have no knowledge of the game, as I see it, you shouldn't post in a dispute thread unless you have played the game as well, and progressed far enough in said game to know how the disputed trophies are earned, for example, I wouldn't post in dispute threads for the games that are proposed for this white list, as I have played 2 of them, but have no knowledge of the trophies in question.

 

The reason why I'd say people who hack the games on their own would hack other games is because hacking the game in a way that unlocks all trophies in one go, like the autopopping mods in public lobbies requires a CFW PS3. If someone went through the effort of CFWing their console, they wouldn't simply do it to hack Black Ops II and if they actually CFW their console, they'd be quite stupid to not make the timestamps look legit for Black Ops II, considering there are ways to edit timestamps with CFW. Save files that are downloaded online do not unlock all trophies in one go like a modded lobby does, they'd only unlock trophies for the campaign and offline most of the time, because online stats are often saved to the servers of the game.

 

Some people might say it's unfair for me to say this, but my idea for white-listing is that it could be applied only to people who have never been caught with a hacked game previously on their profile, I say this because if they have never done anything wrong on any of their previous games and their timestamps indicate that, I believe they can be trusted on their word for what occurred in their game. If someone has previously hacked 1 or 2 games, they should be flagged for the game, as they have a history of hacking trophies already, meaning there's a likelihood they would re-offend independently. 

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7 minutes ago, Sergen said:

Some people might say it's unfair for me to say this, but my idea for white-listing is that it could be applied only to people who have never been caught with a hacked game previously on their profile, I say this because if they have never done anything wrong on any of their previous games and their timestamps indicate that, I believe they can be trusted on their word for what occurred in their game. If someone has previously hacked 1 or 2 games, they should be flagged for the game, as they have a history of hacking trophies already, meaning there's a likelihood they would re-offend independently. 

 

Another option might be to thoroughly investigate a user's entire profile if they are flagged for a white-listed game. In this case, the game itself would not be a flaggable offense, but it would provide probable cause that may or may not turn up something else. If something turns up, then the questionable game could become a flaggable offense.If not, then the case is closed. This would deter hackers, who wouldn't want their profiles heavily scrutinized, without punishing the innocent.

 

Yes, the hackers could only hack games that are white-listed and probably get away with it, but why design the entire system around that small group of individuals? It should be designed around the majority of players, who earn trophies legitimately and are afraid that they'll someday be flagged for something that was out of their control.

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