Popular Post Sergen Posted August 23, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted August 23, 2017 1 minute ago, Cassylvania said: Another option might be to thoroughly investigate a user's entire profile if they are flagged for a white-listed game. In this case, the game itself would not be a flaggable offense, but it would provide probable cause that may or may not turn up something else. If something turns up, then the questionable game could become a flaggable offense.If not, then the case is closed. This would deter hackers, who wouldn't want their profiles heavily scrutinized, without punishing the innocent. Yes, the hackers could only hack games that are white-listed and probably get away with it, but why design the entire system around that small group of individuals? It should be designed around the majority of players, who earn trophies legitimately and are afraid that they'll someday be flagged for something that was out of their control. I think thorough investigation of people who dispute the games is already done by members independently. I've seen disputes start with 1 flagged game and end up with multiple flagged games caught in the end. But of course, it's probably more likely someone was a victim of a modded lobby rather than independently auto-popping 90% of the trophy list for Black Ops II, the only game that would be a feasible hack on the list in the OP would be GTA IV because a save file can be used to hack the rank trophies. I am kind of disappointed to a degree with this website that people do get flagged for joining modded lobbies and having trophies hacked for them through no fault of their own. I've always believed that if a person never modded their own console or downloaded a save file, they do not deserve to be flagged because they did not break any rules according to Sony's Terms and Conditions for PSN. This website has to respect rules by Sony and does try to emulate those rules, that would mean if it's not a rule in Sony's book, it shouldn't be a rule on this website, without Sony and PSN this website wouldn't exist at all. Because it's so few games currently that have these issues, it wouldn't put any people at an impossible distance ahead of the person below them on the leaderboards, sure I belong in the category of auto-popping Sound Shapes but that's been white-listed because it's an online save transfer from one console to another, it's allowed because you do not mod your own console or download other people's save data to do it, but it also doesn't make the timestamps look 100% accurate since with real gameplay, it's not possible to do Sound Shapes in 12 seconds. I just can't wait until PS4 has modders in lobbies who do this kind of thing on something like Black Ops III, the trophies will auto-sync immediately so none of the measures you can take on PS3 can be applied to the PS4, how will disputes be settled for games on PS4 if that starts happening? It's probably better to sort the problem out on PS3 so you're prepared for when the shit-storm begins on PS4. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassylvania Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 I'm a little disappointed too because there's nothing a player can do to avoid getting flagged now, other than completely avoiding these games or only playing in private lobbies. And I get that there's no way to separate the victims from the hackers, so you should treat everybody equally, but simply assuming that everybody is guilty is wrong. Accidental modded lobbies should be treated as glitches, which are perfectly acceptable means of obtaining trophies in any game. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ars Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 10 hours ago, Sergen said: Some people might say it's unfair for me to say this, but my idea for white-listing is that it could be applied only to people who have never been caught with a hacked game previously on their profile, I say this because if they have never done anything wrong on any of their previous games and their timestamps indicate that, I believe they can be trusted on their word for what occurred in their game. If someone has previously hacked 1 or 2 games, they should be flagged for the game, as they have a history of hacking trophies already, meaning there's a likelihood they would re-offend independently. This would be piss easy to implement. You just add a script to the flagging process "if strikes>0 enable flagging" on any number of games. Then no one could be tagged on one of the problem games as their first flag. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfBambam55 Posted October 22, 2017 Author Share Posted October 22, 2017 was just looking at the latest mod menu for gta v online, ps3 of course...it is intense...pretty much has everything, cars, skins, weapons, platinum medals, stats, etc, etc, etc...oh yeah, also has an "unlock all trophies", "give x rp", "give x cash" and yes, "give fake $x bounty"...here's to hoping we don't see an increase in flags... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madbuk Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 On 8/23/2017 at 5:55 AM, Cassylvania said: I'm a little disappointed too because there's nothing a player can do to avoid getting flagged now, other than completely avoiding these games or only playing in private lobbies. And I get that there's no way to separate the victims from the hackers, so you should treat everybody equally, but simply assuming that everybody is guilty is wrong. Accidental modded lobbies should be treated as glitches, which are perfectly acceptable means of obtaining trophies in any game. But they aren't glitches. Glitches are an error in the games code. When you exploit a glitch in a game, you're working within the boundaries the game itself has set. Mods change those boundaries. You have no way of proving that someone who "accidentally" entered a modded lobby wasn't sat there for hours trying to find one. It's nothing like using a glitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergen Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 1 minute ago, madbuk said: But they aren't glitches. Glitches are an error in the games code. When you exploit a glitch in a game, you're working within the boundaries the game itself has set. Mods change those boundaries. You have no way of proving that someone who "accidentally" entered a modded lobby wasn't sat there for hours trying to find one. It's nothing like using a glitch. Well, you do have innocent people who get into the modded lobbies without intending for it to happen. On a game like GTA V, there's no real fix to having your level increased, unless you want someone to delete the entire character. I'd say if the game can get to the point of being modded so badly that people can make menus then wouldn't that be an issue with the game? The developers didn't work hard enough to find ways to stop people from modding it in these ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfBambam55 Posted October 22, 2017 Author Share Posted October 22, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, madbuk said: You have no way of proving that someone who "accidentally" entered a modded lobby wasn't sat there for hours trying to find one. It's nothing like using a glitch. hence the idea of whitelisting was born...covers all bases...are we due for another round of this?...haha... Edited October 22, 2017 by ProfBambam55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madbuk Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Sergen said: Well, you do have innocent people who get into the modded lobbies without intending for it to happen. On a game like GTA V, there's no real fix to having your level increased, unless you want someone to delete the entire character. I'd say if the game can get to the point of being modded so badly that people can make menus then wouldn't that be an issue with the game? The developers didn't work hard enough to find ways to stop people from modding it in these ways. But again, how do you know that they didn't intend for it to happen? You don't. This'd just be giving cheaters a free 100% until it gets caught and invalidated. And once it's invalidated? Well, it's not like they get a strike on their account, so it's all good! This white list will make it so that you have absolutely no reason to play these games legit anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfBambam55 Posted October 22, 2017 Author Share Posted October 22, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, madbuk said: But again, how do you know that they didn't intend for it to happen? You don't. This'd just be giving cheaters a free 100% until it gets caught and invalidated. And once it's invalidated? Well, it's not like they get a strike on their account, so it's all good! This white list will make it so that you have absolutely no reason to play these games legit anymore. untrue...want to be on the leaderboards? (which is apparently what the flags are all about)...then you must play legit...I've asked this before: do you really think that there are a bunch of hackers out there that fear a strike on this website and is the only reason they don't hack?...haha...even writing it sounds funny... Edited October 22, 2017 by ProfBambam55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodytears1666 Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 36 minutes ago, ProfBambam55 said: was just looking at the latest mod menu for gta v online, ps3 of course...it is intense...pretty much has everything, cars, skins, weapons, platinum medals, stats, etc, etc, etc...oh yeah, also has an "unlock all trophies", "give x rp", "give x cash" and yes, "give fake $x bounty"...here's to hoping we don't see an increase in flags... I've played on ps3 for years, and been in those lobbies, where the mess, never ever even once someone did something wrong with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfBambam55 Posted October 22, 2017 Author Share Posted October 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Bloodytears1666 said: I've played on ps3 for years, and been in those lobbies, where the mess, never ever even once someone did something wrong with me. and the relevance to whitelisting is.......?... I've never been raped before... does that mean it doesn't happen? (if I understood what you were trying to say) ...if so, i've just made the world a better place... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodytears1666 Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, ProfBambam55 said: and the relevance to whitelisting is.......?... I've never been raped before... does that mean it doesn't happen? (if I understood what you were trying to say) ...if so, i've just made the world a better place... It's the same logic here you're right, some people are about to be involved and then telling they didn't wanted and about people who get punished for "rape", for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindMango Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 (edited) Still hoping to see this to be a thing! I think the easiest thing for Sly to do would be to add a new option for these handful of games on the backend of the site. Site staff has the option to mark a game Cheat or Legit essentially, all he'd need to do is add a third option for this handful of games: 'whitelist'. Whitelist would remove them from that games boards, but not mark them as a cheater, and they wouldn't have to hide them. Then someone like MMDE would just go through and push the whitelist option for anyone that was flagged which appears to have joined a hacked lobby in the past. Easy and I hope we see it soon, situations in this game are a constant hurdle for the flagging and dispute system and hopefully it gets added! Edited October 22, 2017 by BlindMango 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfBambam55 Posted October 22, 2017 Author Share Posted October 22, 2017 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Bloodytears1666 said: It's the same logic here you're right, some people are about to be involved and then telling they didn't wanted and about people who get punished for "rape", for nothing. It's a little more complicated than that (and let's scrap the rape analogy...was to prove previous point but not really appropriate when compared to hacking trophies...apologies for using it)...the objective of this white list is to actually remove the power from hackers to ruin a legit player's list, to make the flag/dispute process simpler, while still keeping the coveted leaderboards clean...this allows people to just play games to play games as per usual which I think we would all encourage, no?...whitelisting takes the "what if they did/didn't hack?" out of the equation... Edited October 22, 2017 by ProfBambam55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodytears1666 Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, ProfBambam55 said: It's a little more complicated than that (and let's scrap the rape analogy...was to prove previous point but not really appropriate when compared to hacking trophies...apologies for using it)...the point of this white list is to actually remove the power from hackers to ruin a legit player's list, to make the flag/dispute process simpler, while still keeping the coveted leaderboards clean... I'm not against anyway, just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfBambam55 Posted October 22, 2017 Author Share Posted October 22, 2017 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Bloodytears1666 said: I'm not against anyway, just curious. totally cool...always open to discussion...feel free to post other thoughts or ideas...for or against makes no difference... 18 minutes ago, BlindMango said: Still hoping to see this to be a thing! I think the easiest thing for Sly to do would be to add a new option for these handful of games on the backend of the site. Site staff has the option to mark a game Cheat or Legit essentially, all he'd need to do is add a third option for this handful of games: 'whitelist'. Whitelist would remove them from that games boards, but not mark them as a cheater, and they wouldn't have to hide them. Then someone like MMDE would just go through and push the whitelist option for anyone that was flagged which appears to have joined a hacked lobby in the past. Easy and I hope we see it soon, situations in this game are a constant hurdle for the flagging and dispute system and hopefully it gets added! this is exactly the kind of input we could've used a few months ago...how to realistically implement a white list process...even starting simple like this is a step forward imo... edit: holy f**k, just noticed 181 people voted thus far...big thanks due guys and gals... Edited October 22, 2017 by ProfBambam55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B1rvine Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 (edited) On 10/22/2017 at 6:02 PM, BlindMango said: ... all he'd need to do is add a third option for this handful of games: 'whitelist'. If implemented this way, or any other way rather, the person should be able to dispute a whitelist as well and go back to normal. Edited April 30, 2020 by B1rvine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfBambam55 Posted October 22, 2017 Author Share Posted October 22, 2017 (edited) 44 minutes ago, B1rvine said: I'd like to see your stance on this subject if you play an online game and someone hacks your trophies and they auto sync. If implemented this way, or any other way rather, the person should be able to dispute a whitelist as well and go back to normal. yeah, we're currently all treading on thin ice as advancements are being made in the ps4 hacking department, where trophies sync automatically... I like the idea of disputing a whitelist but am weary that it may bring us to the current situation with disputes...I would assume the person responsible for tagging them is 100% on point or that a normal flag/dispute is undergone if even slightly unsure... i actually have a few other observations on detecting hacked trophies for the games listed here I could edit into the op that I never got around to since the idea was scrapped (busy life, other things to do)...we could start with these games, try it out for a few months and see what happens (and whether or not hackers come out of the woodwork to completely have no effect on the leaderboards)...i'm 100% confident on the data I've put together throughout this thread but would be more than happy to provide evidence on how all this hacking business works for these trophies if need be...then no one needs to take my word for it... Edited October 22, 2017 by ProfBambam55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodytears1666 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 6 hours ago, ProfBambam55 said: i actually have a few other observations on detecting hacked trophies for the games listed here I could edit into the op that I never got around to since the idea was scrapped (busy life, other things to do)...we could start with these games, try it out for a few months and see what happens (and whether or not hackers come out of the woodwork to completely have no effect on the leaderboards)...i'm 100% confident on the data I've put together throughout this thread but would be more than happy to provide evidence on how all this hacking business works for these trophies if need be...then no one needs to take my word for it... I can tell you what is in GTA online so far. There are hacking lobbies, if ever hackers are still present there, they all named just that simple Hack Lobby in different variations of words. But in general those are simple beat meat deathmatches all of the time without autopoping, different reputation and money incomes. They are simply been made to draw attention, and for seekers, because I can't imagine a person who accidentally appear there by invite or on call. There are special capture missions have been made, to rise reputation pretty fast, but then again, I can't imagine a person who accidentally appear there by invite or on call. There are bounties all around with significant amounts, but, wait, you need to spend time in game to survive that, so if bounty has set, you can only blame yourself to not find a bloodthirsty folk who will claim it in seconds. Even more unlike impossible to avoid, especially with I certain about people play gta will never pass by you, and more likely half of free roam lobby will be behind you for a prize. They will be after you without the reason anyway. Next goes to free roam hackers. Yes, but chance is so low, that could be you, I doubt, because: I have received a lot of ingame messages about people ask me if I do mods or something (high level, moderate skills, mb this make them think so), and tell that they will pay me for that. So lets be real, not all hackers are so stupid to do it for free, as I understand this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfBambam55 Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 (edited) @Bloodytears1666 this thread is about being in the wrong place at the wrong time and having trophies unwillingly stuck to your profile as a result...despite our personal experiences, it happens to some 100% legit players for all the games I've listed in the op...is it on a daily basis?...nope...is everyone 100% legit who earns them?...nope...i've even seen threads created here of people saying it happened to them unwillingly who I looked into only to find that that they had in fact cheated...I guess they figured if they posted a lie they wouldn't get flagged... does all this make whitelisting pointless?...not to me...why not?...let's say 0.1% of people with one of the trophies is actually just playing a game as Sony, developers and, as far as I know, this site encourages, which is legit and just happens to find themselves in a modded lobby...ding...now they're f**ked...they'll have a flag, a dispute, and need to prove they didn't intend to earn the trophy...unless they were streaming at the time or record all of their gaming, there's really not much they can do...so the flag sticks, the person is labelled a "cheater", removed from the leaderboards for said game, and in the case of black ops 2, gta iv, and gta v, they can no longer join gaming sessions to finish up any remaining online trophies (which can potentially suck for Easter eggs, heists and awp)... personally, and apparently others agree based on our micropoll here, I think this is a $hitty situation and would hate to be in a lobby the day a hacker decides to try out their new mod menu or go online thinking they're doing me a favor or whatever...so my rational is that benefit of the doubt should be given...but how?...well, brainstorming for weeks and looking into all the various mod menus led to the ideas in the op...how do you please all?...the "floodgates will open" people, the "leaderboards are sacred" people, the "everyone cheated" people, the "it's common knowledge to delete and recreate your user to erase the trophies" people, but still protect the potentially legit 0.1% who just play games as they were intended to be played who likely have no idea that this can happen and have the instinct of checking their trophy list when one dings?...honestly I have no idea but I tried to come up with some thoughts of how a system could work and possibly please all of the above... with regards to gta v...you saying it is not likely to happen makes no difference...it does happen and even if only to the 0.1% mentioned in the above paragraph it still sucks when it does...here's a side story: have you ever heard of the "auf wiedersehen petrovic" (awp) trophy in gta iv?...it used to be one of the glitchiest trophies in the industry and why it dinged for some and not others was a mystery...when I looked into it, self-proclaimed experts were saying bull$hit like "you need to do all races but one then wait a couple hours, do your last one, and it will ding", "you need to save in singleplayer after each mode", "you need to win both modes of cops n' crooks" and so on...i spent countless hours testing it out both solo and with over 100 people it glitched on only to find that, without a doubt, it all came down to internet connection and was able to disprove all the bs that had been "common knowledge"...point of story?...i've earned the awp trophy across 5 accounts now...never once has it glitched on me...does that mean it's not glitchy?...i would be ignorant if I thought so, no?...so allow me to repeat, this thread is not about your or my experience with gta v or any other of the games on the list...it's about being in the wrong place at the wrong time... i guarantee you hackers can basically autopop the trophies listed...i would prefer to not promote hacking by posting links to mod menus, you tube videos, or web sites so have refrained from doing so here...if you don't trust my info or judgment then please feel free to research on your own...a good place to start might be to google "(insert game title) mod menu"...if you're like me you'll start to think "holy $hit, everyone is cheating" but remember to look for the 0.1%...they exist...some of them are members of this site and that's what this thread is about... another bam novel...cheers... Edited October 23, 2017 by ProfBambam55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodytears1666 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 (edited) 45 minutes ago, ProfBambam55 said: i guarantee you hackers can basically autopop the trophies listed...i would prefer to not promote hacking by posting links to mod menus, you tube videos, or web sites so have refrained from doing so here...if you don't trust my info or judgment then please feel free to research on your own...a good place to start might be to google "(insert game title) mod menu"...if you're like me you'll start to think "holy $hit, everyone is cheating" but remember to look for the 0.1%...they exist...some of them are members of this site and that's what this thread is about... another bam novel...cheers... Well you said it before, I have read a thread and understand you. If talk focusing on game mechanics and facts, any of this 0.1% appeared at the place accidentally when it's highly hard to do so. They actually deserve both platinum and whitelist. I'm not about searching for mods menus and other things, since it waste of time when I'm not about to use it and their existence doing nothing in this question. Also worth to mention, I know nothing about others, I'm talking only about GTA online on PS3, actually. Well I can say, if on PS3 it seems 0.1 percent possible, on PS4 it seems like 0.01 percent or less likely to happen. Edited October 23, 2017 by Bloodytears1666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfBambam55 Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, Bloodytears1666 said: Also worth to mention, I know nothing about others, I'm talking only about GTA online on PS3, actually. Well I can say, if on PS3 it seems 0.1 percent possible, on PS4 it seems like 0.01 percent or less likely to happen. yes, this list only covers ps3 versions of the games...as of this post, the same mod menus are not available on ps4...with gta v, character transfer was possible until March 6 of this year from ps3 to ps4 so someone could've earned all online trophies seconds apart...not relevant to the discussion here (yet)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodytears1666 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, ProfBambam55 said: yes, this list only covers ps3 versions of the games...as of this post, the same mod menus are not available on ps4...with gta v, character transfer was possible until March 6 of this year from ps3 to ps4 so someone could've earned all online trophies seconds apart...not relevant to the discussion here (yet)... The only possible way this system will win, if one of those 0.1 percent will be trustful member experienced, before that this all theoretical and placed against 10000k opposite proofs. Edited October 23, 2017 by Bloodytears1666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodytears1666 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Also character transfer is not the case, having legit ps3 trophies on account is bulletproof innocence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potent_Delusions Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 That is a very good point that has been raised in here in the last few posts: when this kind of thing eventually comes to PS4...you can't delete the user because the trophies literally synch within seconds, so at that point it HAS to be whitelisted surely. Same goes for PS3; expecting someone who wants to play one of these modded lobby games for fun like GTA5 or BO2 to delete their user 5x a day to avoid synching is quite frankly ludicrous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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