ProfBambam55

Suggestion - White List for Trophies / Games?

White Listing...   289 members have voted

  1. 1. Should we have a white list for games like the ones described in the OP?

    • To White List...
    • NOT to White List...
    • Undecided/Divided Opinion...
    • Couldn't Care Less...

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479 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, hBLOXs said:

At the same time you don't know the number of people who are using this site to look at their own stats but never bother to sign up because a once a week update is enough for them or they might even use up to 5 ad hoc updates of their own profile a day. I know I used this site for at least a year before I ever signed up to gawk & marvel at my own stats. It wasn't until I also wanted to use a trophy card for my signature at PST that I created a user here.
And of course PSNP can dictate which of those datamined stats it wants to display in what form. As long as they stick to exactly the rules every psn user has agreed to in their privacy settings they can do exactly that. It just coincides with a 'moral code'.

 

As of right now, you are signing away your right to complain about this by setting your 'shared information' to visible for 'anybody' in your psn privacy settings.
Furthermore, people who have been added on here randomly by strangers and are unaware of that fact most likely won't feel violated by not being included in any leaderboards. Being unaware of them & all. If they become aware and don't wish to be ranked here - even though they kind of tacitly agreed to it by choosing 'games/trophies visible to anybody' they can easily remove their stats from here.

 

If we have to get petty about other people's choices of metaphors: It does though. Being murdered in real life is the death of you. Allowing to display any form of illegitimate trophy unlocking on a site which has one main purpose: showcasting trophies earned and providing comparisons of them with others in leaderboards is the death of them.
The 'crime' done against profiles on here is as egregious as a killing, no matter if it's committed via hit-and-run or an elaborately plotted murder. Just because having a cheated profile won't get you prison time in real life does not mean it's not the most serious offense on this site. On the other hand, being murdered or a murderer won't take away your trophy accomplishments on here. That's what makes it an equivalent.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I only ever experienced that if all players didn't meet up in a private lobby beforehand. At least that's how I remember it, not having touched ps3 GTA5 since 2015.

That's unfair and not true. When someone is flagged and the flag is upheld even after dispute MMDE, grimy & everybody else go out of their way to assure the flagged member that they're welcome to participate in everything else the site has to offer.

Hidden trophies are indirectly visible on  Sony's servers, just not as noticeable. But if somebody had 10k trophies, 8k of which are hidden and he appears as a lvl12 to you, you'd immediately notice it.

This website respects that privacy option exactly to the extend that  Sony does, really. See my example above. Somebody who has only hidden 2 games for whatever reason would not be noticeable to you unless you take the time to go through his whole list, add up all his trophies and uncover the difference. Or, you know, you go to a place that does all that math all for you.

You got a point there. Although you can still enter anybody's psn id & view their lists in the order of trophies earned. So, no, a 1 second time lapse vs. a 3 second is not visible. But 42 trophies all unlocked in the same minute, in reverse order still is. Because Sony's lists display them very much sorted by those invisible seconds too.

RE5 Versus comes to mind which displays your country next to your id. It comes down to whatever third parties are picking from your readily made available privacy settings. Most don't bother with the country, some, leaderboard sites for obvious reasons included, do.
You do have point that you can't explicitly exclude it anywhere but Sony not having a privacy setting for country pretty much puts the blame back on them. I have no doubt that if you could make your country visible to 'friends only' this site would respect that too.

It does mention that your dispute will be reviewed & commented on by members of the community at least twice in the thread https://forum.psnprofiles.com/topic/46667-dispute-rules-format/
Is it really asking too much of a disputer to do a little research before blindly using the contact form? Sony doesn't re-print all their ToS on their contact form either. You'll have to dig into it yourself before you contact them & ask for a refund, for example.

I've never seen anybody in their dispute threads being bullied for what games they play in general, are you kidding? To me it goes back to doing a little research beforehand.
If you care enough about a flag you received and you care enough to dispute it even though you already know that your brother's cousin unlocked those trophies with a savefile being put on your ps3 by a modder on an offline ps3 during a powerout years ago then you should care enough to accept the difference between legitimately and illegimitatley earned trophies.
Even the most innocent victim should realize that their cheated trophies don't belong on the same leaderboards as non-cheated ones. Otherwise, why be offended by the term 'cheat' at all?

Again, anything but the seconds on trophy unlocks is visible jus tas directly through the psn servers. You just can't directly sort by them. But nothing's stopping your co-worker to go through your list directly on psn, highlight all days you were supposed to not game and make life difficult for you.
Except Sony has a clause against stalking other members while also putting the burden of shared information on their members. This site allows for more extensive sorting by certain criteria but it also allows you to remove your profile entirely, without having to delete your psn id.

See above. Nothing but seconds is 'made public' here that searching your id on psn wouldn't also show.

Sony has put itself completely in the clear here by saying that '3rd party sites might require you to abide by their own, additional rules'. Only if those rules are conflicting with Sony's do Sony's rules 'outrank' the third party ones. And I'm pretty sure that we've had the part where hacking conflicts with Sony's ToS linked in many threads. It's there they're just not enforcing it.

Not really, because nobody has ever been flagged for simply being in a modded lobby. A better analogy would be possession of counterfeited money. Also not a very good one as you're not being audibly and visually notified that you've just received counterfeited money but the consequences are similar.
If you detect counterfeited notes among your hard earned cash and decide to continue possessing it instead of having it destroyed you're facing prosecution for that, if found out.

 

This is borderline propaganda. 

 

Defending analogies of murders and trophies? Not many will agree with that. 

 

This is the oddest post I've read in this thread.

I can understand loving psnp. But this sounds all very strange, and I'm just short of calling you a troll. 

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5 hours ago, MMDE said:

 

They have 2 flags btw. BO2 certainly isn't wrong, and WaW idk.

 

he acknowledges & explains the BO2 flag in the 3rd sentence. this thread is debating the legitimacy of BO2, so i wouldn't say it "certainly isn't wrong" lol

seriously, what was the point of your post?¬†ūü§Ē

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Posted (edited)

48 minutes ago, Thropy_Hore said:

 

he acknowledges & explains the BO2 flag in the 3rd sentence. this thread is debating the legitimacy of BO2, so i wouldn't say it "certainly isn't wrong" lol

seriously, what was the point of your post?¬†ūü§Ē

Don't worry about it mate, you are not your trophies. As for ontopic, I feel like this thread has been going in circles for ages now. I don't support a full white list, but I would support that players that are reported for it can hide their game without a flag. That way they aren't on the leaderboard for said game and they aren't penalized. Well, you are penalized in the sense that you will not have the points you gain from the trophies, which you shouldn't get anyway. Cheated or cheated for you, still didn't earn the trophies legitimately. That's my stance on it.

Edited by Starlove-
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@Starlove- you're correct it has been going in circles for a long time now, mainly because people who come on the thread opposing this come in without reading previous posts and state the same  ~5 arguments which have been countered dozens of times already. Sly has already said Gaming Profiles Ltd will carry on with their current plan despite overwhelming opposition on the poll. That's fine in a sense, PSNP can invent any amount of artificial rules to have pretense of a "clean" local leaderboard, including editing that data with completely imaginary numbers like they do with DLC trophies. The answer there is supposed to be "you don't like it, you don't use it", which is perfectly fine in itself.

 

But that's why I brought GDPR in to the mix, because in order for PSNP to look "big" it needs that account data it doesn't actually own. The question whether the whole process is legal is an interesting one. We had a couple alright opposing posts in there, although the lack of legal insight is disappointing. People like Otonio failing to understand the difference in concept between "free to view" and "free to use", for example, or hBLOXs failing to understand in order to "opt-in" you have to log in on the site and any number of anonymous loads are not "opted-in" no matter what.

 

Around the third post we already got someone comparing an out-of-order trophy set to getting away with murder. That doesn't really surprise me, I've heard the same excuse from even MMDE's mouth.

 

The quality of opposing opinions alone makes it seem to me there's an amount of people calling for voice of reason and going against what sounds a lot like zealotry. This is not really about hacked trophies anymore, it's already been established PSNP's track record on it is dubious at best. If this was truly about legitimacy, half the RDR players would be flagged, but then again it would include many, many regular users of this site. The GDPR discussion points attention to people who never signed to agree on any PSNP ToS, because within this discussion, the majority of cases it is those people who are being targeted.

 

That's a bad thing, because inventing a moral code and then proceeding to apply it in black labeling outside parties who've never even heard of "the code" is something fringe hate groups like the alt-right do. I would not like to see it in gaming communities. I view it both a legal and a social problem, which Sly too should be worried about. In case you missed it, hate movements, cyber stalking and #metoo are issues that are currently being paid a lot of attention to.

 

PSNP can have any amount of made up stuff dictating behavior on their local site, but the attempt to extend it over Sony and Sony's customers becomes more problematic.

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Posted (edited)

14 minutes ago, ars said:

@Starlove- you're correct it has been going in circles for a long time now, mainly because people who come on the thread opposing this come in without reading previous posts and state the same  ~5 arguments which have been countered dozens of times already. Sly has already said Gaming Profiles Ltd will carry on with their current plan despite overwhelming opposition on the poll. That's fine in a sense, PSNP can invent any amount of artificial rules to have pretense of a "clean" local leaderboard, including editing that data with completely imaginary numbers like they do with DLC trophies. The answer there is supposed to be "you don't like it, you don't use it", which is perfectly fine in itself.

 

But that's why I brought GDPR in to the mix, because in order for PSNP to look "big" it needs that account data it doesn't actually own. The question whether the whole process is legal is an interesting one. We had a couple alright opposing posts in there, although the lack of legal insight is disappointing. People like Otonio failing to understand the difference in concept between "free to view" and "free to use", for example, or hBLOXs failing to understand in order to "opt-in" you have to log in on the site and any number of anonymous loads are not "opted-in" no matter what.

 

Around the third post we already got someone comparing an out-of-order trophy set to getting away with murder. That doesn't really surprise me, I've heard the same excuse from even MMDE's mouth.

 

The quality of opposing opinions alone makes it seem to me there's an amount of people calling for voice of reason and going against what sounds a lot like zealotry. This is not really about hacked trophies anymore, it's already been established PSNP's track record on it is dubious at best. If this was truly about legitimacy, half the RDR players would be flagged, but then again it would include many, many regular users of this site. The GDPR discussion points attention to people who never signed to agree on any PSNP ToS, because within this discussion, the majority of cases it is those people who are being targeted.

 

That's a bad thing, because inventing a moral code and then proceeding to apply it in black labeling outside parties who've never even heard of "the code" is something fringe hate groups like the alt-right do. I would not like to see it in gaming communities. I view it both a legal and a social problem, which Sly too should be worried about. In case you missed it, hate movements, cyber stalking and #metoo are issues that are currently being paid a lot of attention to.

 

PSNP can have any amount of made up stuff dictating behavior on their local site, but the attempt to extend it over Sony and Sony's customers becomes more problematic.

 

The funniest opposing argument I've seen come up quite often is "we don't want those time stamps on the leaderboard", yet now people are happy to see 24 second Jak II platinums on PS4 because the debug menu is "within the boundaries set by the game". I think when a game gets modders and the companies don't do anything to clean up the game, that should also be considered as part of the game now. It's really ridiculous that this thread has been around since June of last year yet people still have to argue to white-list the games completely. There are people who go out of their way to get fast time stamps with blatant cheating methods such as joining someone else who has done all the work prior to their inclusion in the lobby and so on, yet going on Black Ops II and having trophies randomly unlock when the person used the public search option is still deemed as something that people don't want. What is rather funny is that you know damn well that these games would be white-listed if instead of modders randomly unlocking the trophies for the people, someone discovered the debug menu within those games and got trophies to unlock in seconds. Considering things that get platinums in the games within seconds are allowed already, what is it really hurting for this website to allow this? I will say that when an advertiser views this website, seeing that 3.5million tracked users are on this website is more appealing than 240,000, if the website did begin to operate by only allowing who use the forums to have their trophy list on the website. 

 

I will mention some things this website was doing in the past that were deemed breaches of a person's privacy. Firstly, when PSN initially allowed people to have their friends list public to other people on the PS4, this website had a small tab on people's profiles which had their friends list visible, the thing with this was that every person's friends list was visible to this website even if within their PSN privacy settings they didn't want to show their friends list. This website also used to have a leaderboard tab called "Dirty (With Cheaters)" where they'd put all the major trophy hackers on display, I'd say this was specifically targeting the people in a negative way to basically make fun of their trophy lists for being hacked. While a lot of the people on the "dirty" leaderboard were major trophy hackers who unlocked many platinums with CFW, because flagging isn't differentiated on this website, someone who joins a modded lobby accidentally through the public search option for the game would be part of that "dirty leaderboard". It's also very funny to see people's argument against doing COD trophies in a public lobby with a modder being "this takes away from the work people who did the platinum had to put in", but nobody has said that about the Jak games although the debug menu makes someone no-longer have to work for the platinum and like I said, if the COD games had their in-game debug menu discovered then the games would be white-listed although the time stamps in the game wouldn't be any different from the modded lobbies people can join today. 

Edited by Sergen
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Posted (edited)

42 minutes ago, Sergen said:

 

The funniest opposing argument I've seen come up quite often is "we don't want those time stamps on the leaderboard", yet now people are happy to see 24 second Jak II platinums on PS4 because the debug menu is "within the boundaries set by the game". I think when a game gets modders and the companies don't do anything to clean up the game, that should also be considered as part of the game now. It's really ridiculous that this thread has been around since June of last year yet people still have to argue to white-list the games completely. There are people who go out of their way to get fast time stamps with blatant cheating methods such as joining someone else who has done all the work prior to their inclusion in the lobby and so on, yet going on Black Ops II and having trophies randomly unlock when the person used the public search option is still deemed as something that people don't want. What is rather funny is that you know damn well that these games would be white-listed if instead of modders randomly unlocking the trophies for the people, someone discovered the debug menu within those games and got trophies to unlock in seconds. Considering things that get platinums in the games within seconds are allowed already, what is it really hurting for this website to allow this? I will say that when an advertiser views this website, seeing that 3.5million tracked users are on this website is more appealing than 240,000, if the website did begin to operate by only allowing who use the forums to have their trophy list on the website. 

 

I will mention some things this website was doing in the past that were deemed breaches of a person's privacy. Firstly, when PSN initially allowed people to have their friends list public to other people on the PS4, this website had a small tab on people's profiles which had their friends list visible, the thing with this was that every person's friends list was visible to this website even if within their PSN privacy settings they didn't want to show their friends list. This website also used to have a leaderboard tab called "Dirty (With Cheaters)" where they'd put all the major trophy hackers on display, I'd say this was specifically targeting the people in a negative way to basically make fun of their trophy lists for being hacked. While a lot of the people on the "dirty" leaderboard were major trophy hackers who unlocked many platinums with CFW, because flagging isn't differentiated on this website, someone who joins a modded lobby accidentally through the public search option for the game would be part of that "dirty leaderboard". It's also very funny to see people's argument against doing COD trophies in a public lobby with a modder being "this takes away from the work people who did the platinum had to put in", but nobody has said that about the Jak games although the debug menu makes someone no-longer have to work for the platinum and like I said, if the COD games had their in-game debug menu discovered then the games would be white-listed although the time stamps in the game wouldn't be any different from the modded lobbies people can join today. 

 

 

Totally hilarious... not.

 

Jak has in-game button input cheat codes, like many other games. Nobody has an issue with this.

 

What is actually hilarious is what you're doing here. We both know I said what you're quoting here. You attacked me in another thread saying I would have reported everyone for this Jak in-game cheat code if I could, as if I didn't have the power to do that if I really wanted to, yet, you're the one who seems the most stuck up on Jak. I really don't care about Jak.

 

Things like BO2, that's people who has written third party software to run in the game. It doesn't give you some debug menu or anything. What it does is add overlays or whatever, activated by button inputs. These overlays are menus the person who has written the third party software has created to completely modify the behavior of the game, to instead of requiring you to do things, it will just make the game think it has done these things. Or even send packets to other users telling them that they've done stuff they haven't. Most of these guys haven't even written the software themselves, just downloaded someone else's, and most of the software written are just modifications of someone else's work.

 

Not sure why you compare the two.

 

And we don't want a dirty leaderboard, it just encourages cheating and cost the server a lot of resources.

 

Sorry that we don't differentiate between a cow poop and a dog turd. And people can just hide the trophies before they are caught, or just not sync them, or even when caught they can hide them and still be on the leaderboards. You know this, so seems kinda dishonest of you to pretend this isn't what happens in practice.

 

Being the one who looks at all the reports, a good amount of the people who are reported for BO2 gets multiple flags. They've often done the same stuff in WaW, but will also often have cheated MW2, LBP2, GTA4 or GTA5 (running mods themselves, not others online) or something like that. Many are also CFW.

Edited by MMDE
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@Sergen I wonder how much MMDE being a public advocate of this kind of toxic behaviour plays into Sly's decision making. No one cares about CFW hobbyists not counting for the leaderboard, it's the naming and shaming aspect that bothers me. It's griefing, plain and simple.

 

As I've often said, I'm not an active user of this site anymore as I don't like to meddle with hatemongers, this is news to me PSNP no longer has leaderboards "without cheaters" and "with cheaters". I tried to check Thropy_Hore's trophy list and apparently the former public red flag markers aren't there anymore either. This is something that has transpired within a year or so.

 

I'm actually quite pleased about these recent events, it means PSNP is downplaying on the griefing aspect and focusing on their leaderboards more, as they should.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, ars said:

@Sergen I wonder how much MMDE being a public advocate of this kind of toxic behaviour plays into Sly's decision making. No one cares about CFW hobbyists not counting for the leaderboard, it's the naming and shaming aspect that bothers me. It's griefing, plain and simple.

 

What toxic behavior? Nobody is naming and shaming, so what is this griefing stuff you are talking about?

 

As for BO2, there's one guy who reports most of them, and it has nothing to do with naming and shaming anyone. I'm the only person who sees their names, that's it. Who are they being named to and shamed for?

 

And there's people who cares about if entire trophy lists are unlocked in seconds with the use of custom software. In fact, that's the aspect that people care about the most. I think in most people's eye, CFW is far worse than save file use. It certainly does way more harm on the trophy community.

 

1 hour ago, ars said:

As I've often said, I'm not an active user of this site anymore as I don't like to meddle with hatemongers, this is news to me PSNP no longer has leaderboards "without cheaters" and "with cheaters". I tried to check Thropy_Hore's trophy list and apparently the former public red flag markers aren't there anymore either. This is something that has transpired within a year or so.

 

Plenty places you don't need to meddle with hatemongers. Go on, discuss games with people. Seek help etc. You don't need to take part in the removal of cheaters part if you aren't interested. The red flags have been gone for over a year.

 

15 hours ago, Thropy_Hore said:

 

he acknowledges & explains the BO2 flag in the 3rd sentence. this thread is debating the legitimacy of BO2, so i wouldn't say it "certainly isn't wrong" lol

seriously, what was the point of your post? 1f914.png

 

There's two ways the white listing thing would be done, and Sly has already said what he's willing to. I'd take it a step further than him. Here's the scenario I'd like to see.

 

An option for me to "whitelist" instead of just approve or decline a report. This allows me to differentiate between:

  1. People who intentionally cheats. Editing timestamps or save file use etc.
  2. People who play games known for all it's online modders/hackers, known for people popping trophies for you, who may not have wanted someone online to pop all their trophies for them. And when it has happened, hasn't deleted the trophies, and if synced, hasn't hidden the trophies, and when flagged feels wrong about having been flagged.

 

And the thing I would differ with Sly about is the requirement of hiding the game. I would want it so they didn't need to hide the game, but it also wouldn't count towards their stats and they wouldn't appear on the game's leaderboard. Sly would do it so people would need to hide it, but it wouldn't count towards the 3 strikes.

 

As for you Thropy_Hore, as I said, I got no idea about WaW. I don't play these gunbro on gunbro shoot on each other's head action games.

 

1 hour ago, ars said:

@Sergen I wonder how much MMDE being a public advocate of this kind of toxic behaviour plays into Sly's decision making.

 

I'm actually quite pleased about these recent events, it means PSNP is downplaying on the griefing aspect and focusing on their leaderboards more, as they should.

 

??? I think you've bought into some dogma. I've not advocated for any toxic behavior, and the only time I've spoken to Sly about his decision making when it comes to reports etc is in the case of servers, and it was just about exact details and how it would work to avoid abuse. Will be posting about that soon enough.

 

You also seem to be under the impression people are naming and shaming. No idea where you get this from, as I've never done so. I rarely care about the individual. I've flagged probably some 20k users at least. You don't see me posting about this. I'm doing the hard work to focus on the leaderboard, and all I get back is people like you who would talk shit to me.

 

I posted this in another thread, but I hid it myself:

 

Quote

I'm curious though, do you at all appreciate the work I've done on the site? It sounds like you just want to harm me, and that for what I've thought to be work for the community. What do you expect when someone is exposed for being a liar? Good vibrations? I think you're shooting the messenger.

 

And a lot of the dispute threads are about people being liars, because that's what they are. I'm actually rather tired of those liars. What I appreciate the most in those threads are people being honest. When I do try to be fair about someone I feel is honest, I get shit on for that too, and I expect the usual suspects, but not people I think I can trust.

 

So what do you two want from me? @ars, if you got an issue with me or something I do, send me a PM. Don't wanna start drama, but I want to hear about it.

Edited by MMDE
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Posted (edited)

 

 

On 4/30/2018 at 11:36 AM, ars said:

@Starlove- you're correct it has been going in circles for a long time now, mainly because people who come on the thread opposing this come in without reading previous posts and state the same  ~5 arguments which have been countered dozens of times already. Sly has already said Gaming Profiles Ltd will carry on with their current plan despite overwhelming opposition on the poll. That's fine in a sense, PSNP can invent any amount of artificial rules to have pretense of a "clean" local leaderboard, including editing that data with completely imaginary numbers like they do with DLC trophies. The answer there is supposed to be "you don't like it, you don't use it", which is perfectly fine in itself.

 

But that's why I brought GDPR in to the mix, because in order for PSNP to look "big" it needs that account data it doesn't actually own. The question whether the whole process is legal is an interesting one. We had a couple alright opposing posts in there, although the lack of legal insight is disappointing. People like Otonio failing to understand the difference in concept between "free to view" and "free to use", for example, or hBLOXs failing to understand in order to "opt-in" you have to log in on the site and any number of anonymous loads are not "opted-in" no matter what.

 

Around the third post we already got someone comparing an out-of-order trophy set to getting away with murder. That doesn't really surprise me, I've heard the same excuse from even MMDE's mouth.

 

The quality of opposing opinions alone makes it seem to me there's an amount of people calling for voice of reason and going against what sounds a lot like zealotry. This is not really about hacked trophies anymore, it's already been established PSNP's track record on it is dubious at best. If this was truly about legitimacy, half the RDR players would be flagged, but then again it would include many, many regular users of this site. The GDPR discussion points attention to people who never signed to agree on any PSNP ToS, because within this discussion, the majority of cases it is those people who are being targeted.

 

That's a bad thing, because inventing a moral code and then proceeding to apply it in black labeling outside parties who've never even heard of "the code" is something fringe hate groups like the alt-right do. I would not like to see it in gaming communities. I view it both a legal and a social problem, which Sly too should be worried about. In case you missed it, hate movements, cyber stalking and #metoo are issues that are currently being paid a lot of attention to.

 

PSNP can have any amount of made up stuff dictating behavior on their local site, but the attempt to extend it over Sony and Sony's customers becomes more problematic.

 

 

I don't fully agree on the DLC numbers, because I think numbers are indeed invented. They should be based in what people have actually played, not what they've bought either, and go by "confirmed" rather than pretend there's more.

 

Really no legal issue here, and you can easily remove your profile from the web site. https://psnprofiles.com/account/delete

Go ahead, do it if you think the site is so shit. And if anyone doesn't want to be on the leaderboards, but still want their profile on the web page, because I've heard people say this in the past, just PM me, I'll fix you up.

 

Not sure why you bring me up here. In fact, just ask @ProfBambam55 who encouraged him to post this thread. Yes, I did. In fact, I even posted a thread similar to this 2 months before this one:

 

 

Do you want us to start flagging RDR users? Is that what you're advocating? We can start doing that if that's something you'd be into. My guess it's not. You bringing up another issue doesn't fix the first.

 

I'm not sure what zealotry you're talking about. Are you referring to the people who come into this thread who thinks what these modders are doing is bad for the trophy community and don't think the trophies they've unlocked are legitimate? Not sure who disagrees with this. It's more what to do with it, and once people "educate" them, they usually shut up, and you comment that this is what you see happening over and over.

 

So what is the issue, why is nothing happening? Well, I was so nice that I posted what Sly said about this public in the chat.

 

On 4/14/2018 at 4:34 AM, MMDE said:
Quote

Sly-Ripper: the only way I'd do a whitelist is not have it count towards the 3 flagged games limit
Sly-Ripper: nothing else
Sly-Ripper: I mean everything else stays the same, you still need to hide them

BlindMango: I'm slightly confused, why would they need to hide it if it doesn't tell them it's flagged? :hmm:
Sly-Ripper: it will tell them
Sly-Ripper: it'll still flag them

Sly-Ripper: there's hardly anyone effected by not being whitelisted
Sly-Ripper: I don't see why there's such a big fuss about it

 

 

 

Okay? That's the reason. He doesn't get why people are so worked up about it. It's a lot of hassle and would cost server resources, and would only benefit those who this has happened to multiple times, people who by then should know better, or have cheated in other games.

 

Lol, and now you wanna bring up alt-right, hate groups and #metoo etc. I thought you were just shaming someone for comparing cheating trophies to murder, even put that on me. Seems hypocritical to me.

 

I'm not going to dismiss your point because of that though, like you did, but instead address what you bring up. Are you seriously worried about cyber stalking or bullying because of trophy cheating? When has this been an issue? What is it Sly should be worried about? These days I'm the one who deals with most of it, and I don't see what you're talking about happening towards anyone but me. Is it the aspect where some liar exposes themselves in public, people laugh at it for some few seconds, forgets all about it and moves on?

 

The #metoo movement is a total chaos and built upon public shaming, but if you're going to take it seriously, it would be about abusing vulnerable people in a position of power. What vulnerable people have I abused with my "power"? Please do PM me about this too, instead of us starting a big shit show. I just want to respond to this stuff in public because you post it in public.

 

Also, the #metoo movement is about public shaming, the kind of things you're worried about it seems. The kind of things we got rules against on this web site.

 

The mods are certainly against ToS, so I got absolutely no idea why you bring it up here.

 

Neither do I know why "the attempt to extend it over Sony and Sony's customers becomes" would be "problematic". The site could ban anyone it didn't like from being on the leaderboard. Instead, that's not what happens, and even that wouldn't be "problematic". You know well why most people are removed from the leaderboards.

Edited by MMDE
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Everyone please stop this is not on topic or productive. 

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Posted (edited)

Come on @MMDE. You're repeatedly quite vocal about "cheaters", using vocabulary like "dirty" or "illegitimate". They're hostile labels you put on a group of people you decide are unwanted in your own bubble. And that's fine in itself. But while you call those people names, including people who only happened to join a public lobby at the wrong time like on this thread, and compare a perfectly legit CFW hobby with drugs and murder, the juveniles on this site buy into it and then start calling for those people to be shot. If you fail to see how all the encouragement that's happening here is toxic behavior I'm not sure what gives.

 

I see you getting quite angry about "exposing a liar" but amuse me for a bit: you state you've flagged 20 000 people. So how many of those people started a dispute, lied to your face and got exposed as a liar? 100? 200? Isn't it truly you sharing hostile propaganda based on an extremely small snippet of users you've "exposed" and lost your temper for them talking back at you? In order to expose someone, they'd have to wiling users of the site too. What's there to expose otherwise, unless in order to grief people who do whatever gaming they do, and are perfectly free to do so and shouldn't expect to be called names for it. If you disagree with this, unless you're getting paid for flagging people I think it's legit to say you have cyber stalking people as part of your PSNP hobby, where the leaderboards are your personal little sandbox. Having a data deletion button on a third party site isn't an excuse for anything. It's not like PSNP is quoting a snippet of a Sony user's information, it's replicating their public account info in almost full.

 

As far as leaderboards go, I'm not advocating any flags. I'm just observing that most of all of us would have a flag if you truly ran "clean" leaderboards. Leeching CFW users off the internet and then flagging them as "dirty" is not a matter of pride or a service, it's a futile loop where you should just stop introducing people to your database who do their gaming on their own terms and didn't ask to be there in the first place.

 

You say that most people would care about legitimacy of trophies, but I'm looking at a poll on the top of the page that points completely otherwise. It's once again a small snippet, this time out of all PSNP users of course. Perhaps a big ass poll on the main page would give a better indication. However I'm pretty comfortable in saying that I think a really, really vast majority of people just want to play, check their trophies once in awhile and not get griefed over it. Like I said in my earlier post, I'm quite happy to see PSNP going more this way in the recent updates to site behaviour, not publicly naming and shaming flagged individuals anymore.

 

Edit: @Dav9834 apologies, however MMDE being the most public authority concerning flag behaviour on this site, I do think exchanging opinions about what are his principles, and how they effect the site are of public value and relevant to the thread...

Edited by ars
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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, ars said:

Come on @MMDE. You're repeatedly quite vocal about "cheaters", using vocabulary like "dirty" or "illegitimate". They're hostile labels you put on a group of people you decide are unwanted in your own bubble. And that's fine in itself. But while you call those people names, including people who only happened to join a public lobby at the wrong time like on this thread, and compare a perfectly legit CFW hobby with drugs and murder, the juveniles on this site buy into it and then start calling for those people to be shot. If you fail to see how all the encouragement that's happening here is toxic behavior I'm not sure what gives.

 

I see you getting quite angry about "exposing a liar" but amuse me for a bit: you state you've flagged 20 000 people. So how many of those people started a dispute, lied to your face and got exposed as a liar? 100? 200? Isn't it truly you sharing hostile propaganda based on an extremely small snippet of users you've "exposed" and lost your temper for them talking back at you? In order to expose someone, they'd have to wiling users of the site too. What's there to expose otherwise, unless in order to grief people who do whatever gaming they do, and are perfectly free to do so and shouldn't expect to be called names for it. If you disagree with this, unless you're getting paid for flagging people I think it's legit to say you have cyber stalking people as part of your PSNP hobby, where the leaderboards are your personal little sandbox. Having a data deletion button on a third party site isn't an excuse for anything. It's not like PSNP is quoting a snippet of a Sony user's information, it's replicating their public account info in almost full.

 

As far as leaderboards go, I'm not advocating any flags. I'm just observing that most of all of us would have a flag if you truly ran "clean" leaderboards. Leeching CFW users off the internet and then flagging them as "dirty" is not a matter of pride or a service, it's a futile loop where you should just stop introducing people to your database who do their gaming on their own terms and didn't ask to be there in the first place.

 

You say that most people would care about legitimacy of trophies, but I'm looking at a poll on the top of the page that points completely otherwise. It's once again a small snippet, this time out of all PSNP users of course. Perhaps a big ass poll on the main page would give a better indication. However I'm pretty comfortable in saying that I think a really, really vast majority of people just want to play, check their trophies once in awhile and not get griefed over it. Like I said in my earlier post, I'm quite happy to see PSNP going more this way in the recent updates to site behaviour, not publicly naming and shaming flagged individuals anymore.

 

I use words like "cheaters" and "illegitimate". Can't really remember ever using the word "dirty", but whatever. Not sure what the issue with this is. I call them for what they are. Don't confuse this with naming and shaming, as naming and shaming is about naming people in public to shame them in public. That is not happening on this site. They're reported, and they themselves decide to bring this to the public, and way more likely than not, they're lying and we're calling them on it. I'm not going to police myself from maybe offending someone by calling them a cheater when they've cheated, decided to bring it public and lie about it.

 

It's not my bubble, and I don't care if you cheat, they're unwanted on the leaderboards. It's more about being fake and dishonest.

 

You still seem to think I compare murder to trophy cheating... If you refer to something specific, I'm thinking that must be some analogy for you to understand some kind of point, but I can't remember it, and honestly, I don't even care that much about it. Wouldn't make a difference if I have made some kind of analogy to some kind serious crime and cheating trophies. Analogies is not about saying one thing is like the other, it's about explaining a relationship between two things, see it in a different light to understand a point being made that you otherwise wouldn't understand because of some kind of bias. It often helps putting it in a light where you'd agree. I was going to start talking about dishonest analogies, but this would just be me blabbering on... blah blah, I will save you the time.

 

And I'm not sure I've ever called anyone who joins modded lobbies for cheaters. I've said they got illegitimately earned trophies, and they do. Not sure what the issue is with this. You also still seem to have an issue with me about this topic when I'm pretty sure I don't even hold the opinions you think I do. I will argue against poor reasoning, even when I agree with the conclusion. As I said, I'm the one who has encouraged this thread's existence, and created one myself months before this one existed. You are barking up the wrong tree.

 

100? 200? Probably more, but angry? The one thing I do get frustrated and angry about is people attacking me for things I don't even think I deserve getting attacked over, especially if I do a lot of work for them. The worst part is people smearing me, usually with half truths etc, or spreading lies or bad info.

 

Yes, I don't like it when they lie to my face either. The exposing comes from them making a thread in public where they lie to avoid something. There's nothing to expose if they don't do that. If it's legit users, I'll happily lift their flag, but if they're lying, just fuck off. They're doing this to themselves, and it's not called naming and shaming.

 

You know what would be naming and shaming? Creating a list of everyone who has cheated. Yes, I know that's why you talked about the cheater leaderboard before, but the cheaters want that back, they liked that. They liked competing about who gets to top that. That doesn't exist anymore, and hasn't for a long time.

 

Nobody publish a list of the latest cheaters and call them liars and cheats. They're just more hidden on the site than ever before when they get caught, and they can then decide if they want to lie to us in public and get exposed for it, or either just continue using the site like nothing has happened or just delete their account from the site. It's easy to delete your account.

 

What exactly do you think cyber stalking is? 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberstalking

 

"Cyberstalking is the use of the Internet or other electronic means to stalk or harass an individual, group, or organization. It may include false accusations, defamation, slander and libel. It may also include monitoring, identity theft, threats, vandalism, solicitation for sex, or gathering information that may be used to threaten, embarrass or harass."

 

Me scanning leaderboards for common cheating and reporting whoever I find, not giving a shit about who it is or what they do, that's not cyber stalking. In fact, cyber stalking is the kind of shit I get from some of the people going after me.

 

So, please stop the smearing, you're just literally wrong about this.

 

Account info in full? It's the trophy data that users have agreed to share. Whenever there's an update to the privacy settings, they have the option to hide them again, and they can whenever they want to, or even only show to friends etc. They don't. People want to be here, and if they don't they can remove themselves or hide their trophies. It's already public info, and the site just serve you it in a convenient manner. Creating a community and leaderboard etc for people interested in that. Other sites don't allow you to delete yourself, so there's definitely a difference.

 

CFW users will usually add themselves, and nobody talk about them or name them unless they actually try to dispute the flags. They're not hunted down from around the web or anything like that. And yes, I do think it's a service that they're taken off the leaderboards once they're on it, but maybe you'd rather they be on the leaderboards?

 

I'm not exactly sure how people are added to the site, but from my experience, most are added manually, but you'd have to talk with Sly about that, as I got nothing to do with that.

 

Nobody is griefed. People who cheat or have trophies earned on illegitimate means that they pretend is legit are just taken off the leaderboards. Simple as that.

 

And as for the poll, it's about if people want to see a whitelist or not, and I've been an advocate for that long before this thread, and I even encouraged this thread. Again, you're barking up the wrong tree.

 

People can still view their trophies etc, but I they can't expect to be on the leaderboards if they earn trophies illegitimate.

Edited by MMDE
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@MMDE, let me be clear. It's not you scanning the leaderboards and flagging someone for whatever justification you have that in my opinion makes it cyber stalking. It's datamining a third party site for public profiles and then scanning them that does. I do recommend you study the GDPR a bit, it takes effect - tomorrow.

 

It will be tested in court at some point, but I'm highly curious as what all constitutes personal data - personally identifiable information. Having had the same PSN account for twelve years and met hundreds if not thousands of people over the years, I can guarantee I can be identified through that account. I'm not a viable study for PSNP as I've actually agreed to the ToS, of course.

 

In any case, a lot of my complaints are gone now the site simply hides the people instead of having screaming red blocks all over. On the contrary to what you say - that it has been like this for a long time - the change is pretty recent.

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Posted (edited)

I'll mention another thing regarding privacy on this website. To have a hidden trophy list take effect on this website, the person has to have also earned a trophy on another game and sync that to PSN, what happens when someone hides a trophy list on PSN but hasn't earned a trophy? You're then using someone's private information on their profile here because they haven't fulfilled the demand of this website which was to earn a trophy to get the hidden list to take effect on this website. I'm not sure if hiding a whole profile's trophy list on this website also requires you to earn a trophy, but someone could very well retire from trophies but manually hide some games one by one without earning a trophy again, but their hidden trophies are still visible to everyone who would look at their profile on this website. 

Edited by Sergen
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55 minutes ago, ars said:

@MMDE, let me be clear. It's not you scanning the leaderboards and flagging someone for whatever justification you have that in my opinion makes it cyber stalking. It's datamining a third party site for public profiles and then scanning them that does. I do recommend you study the GDPR a bit, it takes effect - tomorrow.

 

It will be tested in court at some point, but I'm highly curious as what all constitutes personal data - personally identifiable information. Having had the same PSN account for twelve years and met hundreds if not thousands of people over the years, I can guarantee I can be identified through that account. I'm not a viable study for PSNP as I've actually agreed to the ToS, of course.

 

In any case, a lot of my complaints are gone now the site simply hides the people instead of having screaming red blocks all over. On the contrary to what you say - that it has been like this for a long time - the change is pretty recent.

 

Yeah, I doubt GDPR will have any effect on this. And Sony offers you plenty of privacy options. I deal with no other information than what is plainly available to you, and I only use it for personal use. Regardless, none of this has to do with cyber stalking, doesn't fit the definition of cyber stalking whatsoever, so please stop saying that.

 

Well, it seems you tried to connect a lot of this to me, but for as long as I've been active, this hasn't been done.

 

53 minutes ago, Sergen said:

I'll mention another thing regarding privacy on this website. To have a hidden trophy list take effect on this website, the person has to have also earned a trophy on another game and sync that to PSN, what happens when someone hides a trophy list on PSN but hasn't earned a trophy? You're then using someone's private information on their profile here because they haven't fulfilled the demand of this website which was to earn a trophy to get the hidden list to take effect on this website. I'm not sure if hiding a whole profile's trophy list on this website also requires you to earn a trophy, but someone could very well retire from trophies but manually hide some games one by one without earning a trophy again, but their hidden trophies are still visible to everyone who would look at their profile on this website. 

 

This is wrong. If you hide your trophies, they will be hidden. What you talk about is only the case when they hide some few games.

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Posted (edited)

 

 @Sergen well, I'm not buying that much into "we won't name and shame them, we'll coerce them into naming and shaming themselves" tidbit either :D But let's be frank, the real issue here are the 3,5 million non-opted-in accounts. I believe removing the cheaters list did more in "discouraging hackers" than any other hostile flagging and shaming scheme this site has carried out over the years, but it won't change a thing if the site keeps forcefully adding people on the leaderboards without them asking for it. PS3Hax has, what, 400 thousand registered users. That's almost twice the size PSNP has btw. You want to run a hobby scheme you should stick to yourselves and stop with this expose whatever crap. Expose the people who signed your terms and broke them after.

 

Before Dav intervenes again I'd like to clarify, this is an on-going topic because there are minute amounts of actual PSNP members being flagged on the games listed in the OP, but the vast majority are gamers who've never even heard of this site, or known that here they're expected to delete their local accounts for joining a public lobby and popping a trophy. I repeat I have little to complain now the site doesn't advertise someone being flagged anymore, but I also see the crusade against hackers being artificially inflated in numbers. Which brings me to:

 

6 hours ago, MMDE said:

Do you want us to start flagging RDR users? Is that what you're advocating? We can start doing that if that's something you'd be into. My guess it's not. You bringing up another issue doesn't fix the first.

 

Sure, why not. I see no argument against starting a flagging scheme that is equal across the board, and on the contrary to the current situation accepts a flag on any suspicious trophy on any game. It'd probably affect a great many of regular PSNP users and start a public outcry, to prevent which you'd have to reassess how the flagging system works. Say, have that specific game not count on the leaderboards with no other repercussions and there being a separate mechanic to flag people as hackers with no leaderboard access, so MMDE can still get his lollipop.

 

That'd probably kill this whole conversation and any other to come, and ultimately MMDE wouldn't have to carry on his cheating trophies is cheating nonsense, either. There's no cheating involved when people reprogram their devices, it's just reprogramming devices to suit a purpose. The script kiddies on the site and you getting a hissy fit about them, that one I have no opinion about. They signed up for the site anyway.

 

You should, of course, still stop datamining third party sites for users that didn't opt-in to PSNP's terms of use regardless some sort of a utopia like this happened or not.

Edited by ars
Tagged Sergen due to ninja post
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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, ars said:

 

 @Sergen well, I'm not buying that much into "we won't name and shame them, we'll coerce them into naming and shaming themselves" tidbit either :D But let's be frank, the real issue here are the 3,5 million non-opted-in accounts. I believe removing the cheaters list did more in "discouraging hackers" than any other hostile flagging and shaming scheme this site has carried out over the years, but it won't change a thing if the site keeps forcefully adding people on the leaderboards without them asking for it. PS3Hax has, what, 400 thousand registered users. That's almost twice the size PSNP has btw. You want to run a hobby scheme you should stick to yourselves and stop with this expose whatever crap. Expose the people who signed your terms and broke them after.

 

Before Dav intervenes again I'd like to clarify, this is an on-going topic because there are minute amounts of actual PSNP members being flagged on the games listed in the OP, but the vast majority are gamers who've never even heard of this site, or known that here they're expected to delete their local accounts for joining a public lobby and popping a trophy. I repeat I have little to complain now the site doesn't advertise someone being flagged anymore, but I also see the crusade against hackers being artificially inflated in numbers. Which brings me to:

 

 

Sure, why not. I see no argument against starting a flagging scheme that is equal across the board, and on the contrary to the current situation accepts a flag on any suspicious trophy on any game. It'd probably affect a great many of regular PSNP users and start a public outcry, to prevent which you'd have to reassess how the flagging system works. Say, have that specific game not count on the leaderboards with no other repercussions and there being a separate mechanic to flag people as hackers with no leaderboard access, so MMDE can still get his lollipop.

 

That'd probably kill this whole conversation and any other to come, and ultimately MMDE wouldn't have to carry on his cheating trophies is cheating nonsense, either. There's no cheating involved when people reprogram their devices, it's just reprogramming devices to suit a purpose. The script kiddies on the site and you getting a hissy fit about them, that one I have no opinion about. They signed up for the site anyway.

 

You should, of course, still stop datamining third party sites for users that didn't opt-in to PSNP's terms of use regardless some sort of a utopia like this happened or not.

 

The only people who gets "exposed" is people who willingly post in the dispute forums and act like total asses. The lying ones are there just to waste our time. And the people who do dispute, it's the people who wants to be on the site, so I don't see how you connect people you think is added randomly and people who manually dispute.

 

Judging by your "angry" comment earlier, I get the feeling you still think I'm mad at people cheating or something. I don't care. That's not my motivation. Exposing people isn't my motivation. Honestly, I think a lot of you would be surprised if you knew my motivation, but let's just say I don't have some gut reaction to cheating or all that interested in the drama.

 

They can just hide the games too, and as I said, you're barking up the wrong tree here. I suggested white listing months before this thread ever existed, and I encouraged ProfBambam to post this one.

 

JFYI, AFAIK, people are added manually, but you'd have to ask Sly for 100% confirmation of this. In fact, if you try to add a lot of people, the system will ban you from doing so for a little while.

 

And if they want to use the site, they can just hide the game and move on. The trophies weren't earned legitimately anyway, that's all it represents, so they shouldn't be on the leaderboards. Nobody is labeling a person who accidentally ran into some online modders for cheaters, but just judging by the amount who will say they did in MW2 when we know they used downloaded saves, even heard other games, a typical one is GTA4 when they get trophies for single player in both main and DLC popping, we know even at least some of those who will claim it was someone online is just lying. And honestly, a lot of them gets more flags, around 50%, and honestly many of those are for straight up running mods themselves in GTA or something.

 

And what you suggest is what I've suggested since July 2017...

 

 

You guys have also somehow got this portrayal of me getting some kind of satisfaction out of this. "his lollipop"... What is that even supposed to mean?

 

Cheating trophies is cheating. Please do point out where I say the people this accidentally happens to is cheating. I've said the trophies are earned illegitimately, so they shouldn't be on the leaderboards.

 

Hissy fit? Dude, none of this fits me whatsoever. Again, you're attacking a pretend me you've built up in your head.

 

What datamining have I done? You speak as if I'm PSNP, I'm not. :S I'm giving flags to people who break the leaderboard rules, which just means they end up not being on the leaderboard anymore. That's it.

Edited by MMDE
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Posted (edited)

7 hours ago, ars said:

 

 

Edit: @Dav9834 apologies, however MMDE being the most public authority concerning flag behaviour on this site, I do think exchanging opinions about what are his principles, and how they effect the site are of public value and relevant to the thread...

I agree part is on topic of the thread, but from what I've read most is both sides defending and attacking. Neither is productive. It's going nowhere. 

 

Could anyone of you please move this to status updates or pms please, it is toxic bringing it here, from both sides, to the forum. Which I really really really don't like toxicity. 

 

I'm not a mod so I can't delete any posts, but I hope you all can move this to status, or pms. I really would appreciate it, I do hate this stuff

Edited by Dav9834
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8 minutes ago, Dav9834 said:

I'm not a mod so I can't delete any posts, but I hope you all can move this to status, or pms. I really would appreciate it, I do hate this stuff

 

8 hours ago, MMDE said:

So what do you two want from me? @ars, if you got an issue with me or something I do, send me a PM. Don't wanna start drama, but I want to hear about it.

 

7 hours ago, MMDE said:

Please do PM me about this too, instead of us starting a big shit show. I just want to respond to this stuff in public because you post it in public.

 

 

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No worries @Dav9834, I think that topic got looked at inside and out and no need for either of us to bring it up again. There was some tougher exchange but that's common when me and @MMDE headbutt, no ill will was borne. There's an additional treat of having an amicable consensus with MMDE about a smarter flagging system. Here's my lack of participation coming back to bite me, as there were things and advances on the site I was not aware of. Perhaps I'm finally done with the thread, as many of my focal points have been dealt with and the OP suggestion itself indeed rejected.

 

So all in all, I feel bad you felt this was a waste of your time. I felt we got somewhere and that's a lot more than on any previous occasion :)

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2 hours ago, ars said:

No worries @Dav9834, I think that topic got looked at inside and out and no need for either of us to bring it up again. There was some tougher exchange but that's common when me and @MMDE headbutt, no ill will was borne. There's an additional treat of having an amicable consensus with MMDE about a smarter flagging system. Here's my lack of participation coming back to bite me, as there were things and advances on the site I was not aware of. Perhaps I'm finally done with the thread, as many of my focal points have been dealt with and the OP suggestion itself indeed rejected.

 

So all in all, I feel bad you felt this was a waste of your time. I felt we got somewhere and that's a lot more than on any previous occasion :)

 

The idea wasn't rejected. It's more that Sly thinks it's more effort than it's worth and doing it properly takes more server resources. I know some few people would still be on the leaderboards if this changed, and I could perhaps lift one flag in return of them keeping the game hidden. But I can't keep track of a lot of users keeping their promise manually. Most of these people, if not all, have been caught using download save files in other games. It's very rare they get 3 flags over this kind of stuff, and if they do, at that point it doesn't seem all that random to me. The only games I can think of is BO2, WaW, GTA4 and GTA5. People currently getting reported for GTA4 and GTA5 is save file users or modders themselves. WaW and BO2 would be the two games, and you don't get 3 flags out of that.

 

But seriously, if you got issues with me or any feedback, just send me a PM. Likely 3 scenarios if you do so:

  1. I listen to you and take what you say into consideration and change my mind or behavior on something.
  2. I tell you why I disagree, and you'll at least likely understand my reasoning and side of it.
  3. Maybe you're simply wrong about something. I know some few people likes to run around smearing me.

No worries.

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Posted (edited)

On 5/1/2018 at 1:49 AM, MMDE said:

 

The idea wasn't rejected. It's more that Sly thinks it's more effort than it's worth and doing it properly takes more server resources. I know some few people would still be on the leaderboards if this changed, and I could perhaps lift one flag in return of them keeping the game hidden. But I can't keep track of a lot of users keeping their promise manually. Most of these people, if not all, have been caught using download save files in other games. It's very rare they get 3 flags over this kind of stuff, and if they do, at that point it doesn't seem all that random to me. The only games I can think of is BO2, WaW, GTA4 and GTA5. People currently getting reported for GTA4 and GTA5 is save file users or modders themselves. WaW and BO2 would be the two games, and you don't get 3 flags out of that.

 

But seriously, if you got issues with me or any feedback, just send me a PM. Likely 3 scenarios if you do so:

  1. I listen to you and take what you say into consideration and change my mind or behavior on something.
  2. I tell you why I disagree, and you'll at least likely understand my reasoning and side of it.
  3. Maybe you're simply wrong about something. I know some few people likes to run around smearing me.

No worries.

 

Edited by tlal_q8_22
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Is it possible to change my vote?

I would like to change my vote from "NOT to White List" to "To White List".

I really changed my mind on that matter. 

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Sorry if this question already being discussed here, it's a long thread, but why would not just ignore this games? Let's say that trophies earned in hacked lobby are legit trophies. What difference does it make? Cheaters can be removed according other cheated games still, innocent players won't be needing to hide games. Leaderboards? Insofar as there are only 3-5 games with hacked lobbies issue, will it really affect leaderboards?

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1 hour ago, dn-xx said:

Sorry if this question already being discussed here, it's a long thread, but why would not just ignore this games? Let's say that trophies earned in hacked lobby are legit trophies. What difference does it make? Cheaters can be removed according other cheated games still, innocent players won't be needing to hide games. Leaderboards? Insofar as there are only 3-5 games with hacked lobbies issue, will it really affect leaderboards?

 

That's been a big argument here, nobody is gonna play all these games that have modded lobbies and have an impossibly high advantage over the person below them on the leaderboards because it's so few games that it happens on and it's not going to affect more than a handful of games. Trophies like Big Leagues from Black Ops II and Run Like The Wind on GTA V for PS3 should be treated as a positively glitched trophy, because they're both simple miscellaneous trophies from those respective games that anyone would have been capable of doing if the feature kept working. I think most things anyone could really add to this discussion have been said, it's just incredibly disappointing that it was never implemented to the website and I think part of the reason is the fact that too many people have been flagged for the website to go back and unflag everyone. It takes some very toxic people to get salty over some people getting trophies quicker than them when those trophies were done with a public lobby on a game with an unmodded console without downloading other people's save files. 

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