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Suggestion - White List for Trophies / Games?


White Listing...  

548 members have voted

  1. 1. Should we have a white list for games like the ones described in the OP?

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18 minutes ago, LoveInHell said:

Can someone explain this idea in like “easy” English cause I don’t understand. My first language isn’t English.

very basic idea:

 

1. hacker forces trophy/trophies on you in multiplayer game = psnp hides game/trophies for you...no strike...stats adjusted accordingly...

 

2. you hack trophies = normal flag and strike...

 

3. no proof who hacked = benefit of the doubt = 1. above...

 

1., 2., and 3. only apply to games known for hackers being able to force trophies on other players ...whitelist idea has been rejected by site owner indefinitely...

 

is this simple enough?...

Edited by ProfBambam55
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3 minutes ago, ProfBambam55 said:

very basic idea:

 

1. hacker forces trophy/trophies on you in multiplayer game = psnp hides game/trophies for you...no strike...stats adjusted accordingly...

 

2. you hack trophies = normal flag and strike...

 

3. no proof who hacked = benefit of the doubt = 1. above...

 

1., 2., and 3. only appy to games known for hackers being able to force trophies on other players...whitelist idea has been rejected by site owner indefinitely...

 

is this simple enough?...

Wow, I didn’t know this happened, thats really unfair. :/

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8 minutes ago, x7eight said:

Auto popping fuel with save shouldn't be considered hacking since it was bad design of the game at the time and not possible on other games.

 

It should be flagged because otherwise it would punish players that did it legit back then. You will be on top of the fastest achievers for cheating your way to obtain these trophies.

 

If we allow any kind of cheating based on the assumption of "bad game design", it's pretty much allowing all games that have unobtainables glitchy trophies to be cheated, games with server shuttdowns to be cheated, any game with any kind of trophy not popping when it should to be cheated...I could make a case for every game to be cheated, honestly, since all games have something that can be called bad design.

 

 

Edited by Otonio_Bruno
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8 minutes ago, Otonio_Bruno said:

 

It should be flagged because it punishes players that did it legit back then. You will be on top of the fastest achievers for cheating your way to obtain these trophies.

 

If we allow any kind of cheating based on the assumption of "bad game design", it's pretty much allowing all games that have unobtainables glitchy trophies to be cheated, games with server shuttdowns to be cheated, any game with any kind of trophy not popping when it should to be cheated...I could make a case for every game to be cheated, honestly, since all games have something that can be called bad design.

 

 

Fuel really was like that though, I'm sure most of the people who got its trophies used save method back then. It was the way to do it lol. I'm not complaining and I understand the situation but I hate that because of that game I have a flag. Even though it's resolved years ago.

 

But yeah, after looking through some disputes I feel kind of disrespected by some of these people, (especially on hard stuff I did and they just hack it because it was difficult :mad:) and seems that save file manipulation is more common/possible now.

 

Edit: Yeah I never considered the people who did it legit (if any :lol: jk) still wish it was something we knew back then though.

 

 

Edited by x7eight
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4 hours ago, x7eight said:

I didn't know the 3 strike rule was specifically for these glitch games, assumed it was leniency on actual Chesters.

 

The three strike rule was created specifically for games such as SOCOM, FUEL and similar early games with no encryption. Games like GTA V, CoD BO2, and others where someone could be hacked just for playing were later included as intended games as well. 

 

I've recently mentioned to Sly this is a very important community issue. Hopefully if the whitelist does become a reality, actual cheated games can be a one strike and you're gone, other than the whitelisted games. 

 

Edited by B1rvine
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16 minutes ago, B1rvine said:

I've recently mentioned to Sly this is a very important community issue. Hopefully if the whitelist does become a reality, actual cheated games can be a one strike and you're gone, other than the whitelisted games. 

 

 

Thanks for bringing this up.

 

However, how would the whitelist work ideally in your opinion? 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, B1rvine said:

 

No specifics were discussed, it was just mentioned while requesting more staff members such as @Squirlruler. However, if it were up to me, we need new leaderboard rules, at the very least to cover what would fall under a whitelisted status. CRT would be able to click "whitelist" instead of "cheat." If whitelisted, the user doesn't need to remove the game from their list, but it wouldn't be included in the First/Latest/Fastest achievers lists. They'd get a notification the current one explaining what the status. 

 

Things I'd like to be whitelisted would include:

  • Any early PS3 games without encryption.
  • Any games hackers can affect you.
  • For impossible timestamps due to known Sony glitches (Leap Year Glitch / PS4-3 Wrong Game Upload Glitch)

I have a few other things in mind, but it would only make sense with new rules in general. 

 

For now, I'll take (almost) any whitelist.

 

Seems like a sensible plan. I think people could live with not being on the recent achievers etc, as long as they don't have to hide it and it counts towards personal statistics (personal trophy type counts, rarity counts etc). People may disagree but I think it's a fair compromise given how unprecedented this area is. Thanks for the reply. 

Edited by Potent_Delusions
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26 minutes ago, B1rvine said:

 

No specifics were discussed, it was just mentioned while requesting more staff...

this is far better than what the original idea behind this thread encompassed...it's become obvious to me that community and staff input has been and will continue to be crucial in getting this right...should things manifest in the near future, I'd encourage this thread to be locked and a new one created by staff that would outline any tentative plans, changes, and updates for a proper whitelist to be implemented...that being said, i'm happy to bow out of this convo for the time being as it seems this thread has served its purpose...thanks to all...

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  • 3 months later...

Don't know if this is being talked about behind the scenes still or not?

 

If a player gets in a lobby and has all their trophies popped, then all the trophies that popped should be whitelisted and the platinum not count. The other trophies they got on the game, should still count though.

 

I'd be up for whitelisting and dropping the strikes down to two?

Been reading through the disputes the last few days and some do seem really harsh. I'd be mortified if I was in a game that I didn't know had hacked lobbies and had every trophy pop. Especially on a game like Titanfall 2, if I had spent countless hours on the time trial and then went to finish the multiplayer and have that occur, resulting in my hard work being worthless.

 

Christ, if I got flagged for anything, I'd be scared to play any online game again! lol

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I am curious on how retroactive the new rules would be though, would it open a floodgate of new disputes or accusations against people who had a flag lifted when it shouldn't have? Would definitely like to see a whitelist as it would help lighten the load on a chunk of disputes, but I also see the first few months after the introduction of the new system being flooded with appeals for previous outcomes. 

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4 hours ago, Havok_Knight said:

I am curious on how retroactive the new rules would be though, would it open a floodgate of new disputes or accusations against people who had a flag lifted when it shouldn't have? Would definitely like to see a whitelist as it would help lighten the load on a chunk of disputes, but I also see the first few months after the introduction of the new system being flooded with appeals for previous outcomes. 

That's inevitable I fear, any change to the system would likely cause that. Only way to avoid that is to keep things the same permanently.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 1-5-2020 at 3:35 AM, B1rvine said:

 

No specifics were discussed, it was just mentioned while requesting more staff members such as @Squirlruler. However, if it were up to me, we need new leaderboard rules, at the very least to cover what would fall under a whitelisted status. CRT would be able to click "whitelist" instead of "cheat." If whitelisted, the user doesn't need to remove the game from their list, but it wouldn't be included in the First/Latest/Fastest achievers lists. They'd get a notification similar to the current one explaining what the status means. 

 

Things I'd like to be whitelisted would include:

  • Any early PS3 games without encryption.
  • Any games hackers can affect you.
  • For impossible timestamps due to known Sony glitches (Leap Year Glitch / PS4-3 Wrong Game Upload Glitch)

I have a few other things in mind, but it would only make sense with new rules in general. 

 

For now, I'll take (almost) any whitelist.

 

The changes you mentioned would make this site so much better. Is there any discussion between the Staff and Sly to consider those changes?

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Not sure if this has been brought up, but the biggest overlooking when it comes to this is.. who is gonna maintain and keep up-to-date a list of whitelisted/blacklisted game.
It's a time consuming job, even for a team that would flag games as white/blacklisted. Not to mention additional complexity when cutoff dates and other intricacies are taken into consideration.

 

It could be crowd-sourced, kind of have the whole community vote on whether to blacklist a game, but that's also not a straight-forward process for various reasons.
Unless this process can be automated by some type of rule or if the affected games are very few and far between then I don't see how this can be implemented.
But I do wish that players that inadvertently got flagged because of this get a free pass, can't see how that's unreasonable if a large number of people are reporting illegit auto-popping.

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  • 1 month later...
1 hour ago, ZermenoBoy said:

in the recent past i have been monitoring the "flags and dispute" forum threads. Lots of the disputes are about being flagged for the games mentioned in this post. I see it really funny and sad at the same time. You have some users attempting to make a case by stating that they were just playing the game and suddenly trophies started popping. That they are not cheaters and the flag should be lifted. Then you get some "lawyers" (lmao) posting their 2 cents on the issue. Eventually a CRT (Cheater Removal Team) guy comes and gives them the "follow these steps to get back in the leader boards" crap of a link.

Its funny because the users with the flags are like 4 year old toddlers. They like " Daddy i didnt mean to poop my diaper. It was not my fault". And the CRT guys be like " No son, the rules are are rules. Your going to get your a@@ wooped".  I bet these CRT punks feel good about flagging honest gamers. Honestly, does anyone care if a user got the "big leagues" trophy after the servers shut down? Does that make the user better than anyone else? Does that boost the user to the top of the leader boards? That trophy was not even difficult to get anyways when the servers were up lol. 

Here are some facts about the situation: The top played games in the world are #1 COD Black Ops (PS3), #2 GTA V (PS3), #3 GTA V (PS4), #4 COD MW2 (PS3), #5 COD Black Ops 2 (PS3). These are the top played games in the world according to SONY and this site. No other games has more users to log in the game than these. And guess what? I know for a fact these all have modders playing the game online. You can log in right now to these games using a new account and go to multiplayer and I guarantee you that trophies will pop by means of other modders in the lobbies. 

So how is this cheating? What did the honest user do? So this sites rules to be on the leader boards are basically saying "You can be on the leader boards but you will get flagged if you play the most popular games in the world. You will be considered a cheater. So dont even think about playing those games if you want to be on this sites leader boards".

If i were a developer of any of these games I would not want anything to do with this site. I would be disgusted on how this site runs things.  The so called CRT should be focusing on the REAL cheaters who use CFW, save files and all that good stuff. You know, the ones who are on the top leader boards of this site (lol). Stop picking on the honest gamers and do your job.

In conclusion i must say that this site is broken. The only reason I for example entered this site was because of the leader boards. And its sad that the rules to be on them, requires you not to play the top games of all time on PSN.

You can delete your user or something if a modder pops your trophies, as long as you didnt sync first.

You do lose all unsynced trophies though(I think, I don't actually know how to do this), and if it happened before they joined this site they wouldnt even know that they had to do this or how.

 

 

Also, this topic thread is pointless. It's never going to get anywhere, I would just give up 

Edited by charxsetsuna
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On 10/15/2020 at 4:12 PM, ZermenoBoy said:

If i were a developer of any of these games I would not want anything to do with this site. I would be disgusted on how this site runs things.  The so called CRT should be focusing on the REAL cheaters who use CFW, save files and all that good stuff. You know, the ones who are on the top leader boards of this site (lol). Stop picking on the honest gamers and do your job.

I agree with this since most of the dispute for BO2, WaW, and GTA V (PS3) that I come across are people who didn't know other players could auto-pop the entire trophy lists for those games and then get punished on here just for not knowing it. Not only players get punished for those games, but also those players that got punished for those games don't have any other disputes/flagged games (other than BO2, WaW, or GTA V). Most of the time I see people get permanently taken off from leaderboards are usually those who knowingly cheats by using save files (looking at you CoD Classic, MW2, FIFA 09, etc.), edited timestamps, etc. All in all, I am one of those who got Big Leagues for BO2 when the seasons were still up and I will be honest, I don't really care if someone gets Big Leagues by getting auto-popped by hackers (unless if they have other trophies auto-popped (for instance more than 2 trophies excluding platinum) other than Big Leagues then that's different story imo), and one silver trophy wouldn't rank up trophy level by not even a lot by any means. I see people get flagged for either those three games, but nothing else, so I think this website could have some leniency (I know there's leniency of two flagged games already). Overall, I support whitelist of WaW, BO2, and GTA V (PS3).

On a side note, if it was other games like FIFA 09-16, Last of Us (PS3), or any other games that got servers shut down with prior announcement of doing so, then that's players' fault. Games like BO2 or GTA V (PS3) where online functionality was taken out without an announcement then I could understand all of bitching and complaining since from my perspective, that is something reasonable and have reasons to do so.

 

On 10/15/2020 at 4:12 PM, ZermenoBoy said:

In conclusion i must say that this site is broken. The only reason I for example entered this site was because of the leader boards. And its sad that the rules to be on them, requires you not to play the top games of all time on PSN.

I don't think the site is broken, but there should be something done with games like WaW, BO2, and GTA V (PS3) where other players could auto-pop trophies even without people seeking one for so. Same reason why I joined PSNprofiles because of leaderboards :)

 

Or I would say (I think people would disagree with this) the next best thing is to bombard Activision and Rockstar by sending file complaint through BBB. I don't think it would work, but we could take a stab at it and try since their customer support (mostly pointing finger at Activision) is essentially next to useless. We all gamers should unite and put the blame to developers!!! :D

Edited by IOnlyUseBlade99
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 15/10/2020 at 5:12 PM, ZermenoBoy said:

in the recent past i have been monitoring the "flags and dispute" forum threads. Lots of the disputes are about being flagged for the games mentioned in this post. I see it really funny and sad at the same time. You have some users attempting to make a case by stating that they were just playing the game and suddenly trophies started popping. That they are not cheaters and the flag should be lifted. Then you get some "lawyers" (lmao) posting their 2 cents on the issue. Eventually a CRT (Cheater Removal Team) guy comes and gives them the "follow these steps to get back in the leader boards" crap of a link.

Its funny because the users with the flags are like 4 year old toddlers. They like " Daddy i didnt mean to poop my diaper. It was not my fault". And the CRT guys be like " No son, the rules are are rules. Your going to get your a@@ wooped".  I bet these CRT punks feel good about flagging honest gamers. Honestly, does anyone care if a user got the "big leagues" trophy after the servers shut down? Does that make the user better than anyone else? Does that boost the user to the top of the leader boards? That trophy was not even difficult to get anyways when the servers were up lol. 

Here are some facts about the situation: The top played games in the world are #1 COD Black Ops (PS3), #2 GTA V (PS3), #3 GTA V (PS4), #4 COD MW2 (PS3), #5 COD Black Ops 2 (PS3). These are the top played games in the world according to SONY and this site. No other games has more users to log in the game than these. And guess what? I know for a fact these all have modders playing the game online. You can log in right now to these games using a new account and go to multiplayer and I guarantee you that trophies will pop by means of other modders in the lobbies. 

So how is this cheating? What did the honest user do? So this sites rules to be on the leader boards are basically saying "You can be on the leader boards but you will get flagged if you play the most popular games in the world. You will be considered a cheater. So dont even think about playing those games if you want to be on this sites leader boards".

If i were a developer of any of these games I would not want anything to do with this site. I would be disgusted on how this site runs things.  The so called CRT should be focusing on the REAL cheaters who use CFW, save files and all that good stuff. You know, the ones who are on the top leader boards of this site (lol). Stop picking on the honest gamers and do your job.

In conclusion i must say that this site is broken. The only reason I for example entered this site was because of the leader boards. And its sad that the rules to be on them, requires you not to play the top games of all time on PSN.

 

And another clueless person jumps right into the discussion, spouting big words while showing it's ignorance on the matter...

 

Let's address the main points you clearly don't know much about:

 

1. CRT (Or another non-CRT member) leaves those links because many people don't know they hide the game and be back in the leaderboards. It's standard procedure that streamline disputes and make life easier for everyone.

2. CRT feeling good about flagging people for BLOPS 2 or Waw? This statement couldn't be further from truth. I've seen statements from B1rvine, MMDE, grimy that they would like just to have a white flag option for those games instead of 'hard' flagging people that had their trophies auto-popped by modders and the reason why they feel like like that it would cut their work down and needless disputes would be avoided. You can even search this thread even and find their posts about it.

3. Out of the 5 games you listed, only 2 of them actually have modders that can auto-pop your trophies, those games being GTA V (PS3) and Black Ops 2 (PS3). And the former is currently softly white-flagged by CRT if you didn't actively pursuited modders to unlock the trophies for you. So, Black Ops 2 is the only game with issues regarding auto-popped lists by modders that get flagged here. Yes, this still a situation that needs fixing, but please don't paint it worse than actually is.

4. (Here is just my opinion) You are disgusted by how the site runs and that developers shouldn't associate themselves with it, yet you aren't disgusted by those same developers that close down functionalities of the game without prior notice (Bounty feature in GTA V/League mode in Black Ops 2) or those developers don't give a rat-ass to fix their games and get rid of modders? That's some interesting logic...

5. And here you wrong again if you think CRT likes to spend their time flagging people that got their trophies auto-popped. They flag because it's their job, but if you actually knew how stuff worked around, it's the exact thing you're demanding from them (Save-files, timestamp manipulation, CFW in general) that is what drives them the most to do their job properly. I know for a fact one of them love tracking CFW users and taking them out of the leaderboards.

6. The site is not broken. Not even close. It works literally as is intended. You may not like the rules that are in place and that's totally within your right to do so, but that doesn't make something you don't agree with broken. Broken is a word used for something that does not work and the site, as a profile tracking website, works almost flawlessly (Outside auto-update not working properly for some users).

 

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14 hours ago, Otonio_Bruno said:

 

And another clueless person jumps right into the discussion, spouting big words while showing it's ignorance on the matter...

 

Let's address the main points you clearly don't know much about:

 

1. CRT (Or another non-CRT member) leaves those links because many people don't know they hide the game and be back in the leaderboards. It's standard procedure that streamline disputes and make life easier for everyone.

2. CRT feeling good about flagging people for BLOPS 2 or Waw? This statement couldn't be further from truth. I've seen statements from B1rvine, MMDE, grimy that they would like just to have a white flag option for those games instead of 'hard' flagging people that had their trophies auto-popped by modders and the reason why they feel like like that it would cut their work down and needless disputes would be avoided. You can even search this thread even and find their posts about it.

3. Out of the 5 games you listed, only 2 of them actually have modders that can auto-pop your trophies, those games being GTA V (PS3) and Black Ops 2 (PS3). And the former is currently softly white-flagged by CRT if you didn't actively pursuited modders to unlock the trophies for you. So, Black Ops 2 is the only game with issues regarding auto-popped lists by modders that get flagged here. Yes, this still a situation that needs fixing, but please don't paint it worse than actually is.

4. (Here is just my opinion) You are disgusted by how the site runs and that developers shouldn't associate themselves with it, yet you aren't disgusted by those same developers that close down functionalities of the game without prior notice (Bounty feature in GTA V/League mode in Black Ops 2) or those developers don't give a rat-ass to fix their games and get rid of modders? That's some interesting logic...

5. And here you wrong again if you think CRT likes to spend their time flagging people that got their trophies auto-popped. They flag because it's their job, but if you actually knew how stuff worked around, it's the exact thing you're demanding from them (Save-files, timestamp manipulation, CFW in general) that is what drives them the most to do their job properly. I know for a fact one of them love tracking CFW users and taking them out of the leaderboards.

6. The site is not broken. Not even close. It works literally as is intended. You may not like the rules that are in place and that's totally within your right to do so, but that doesn't make something you don't agree with broken. Broken is a word used for something that does not work and the site, as a profile tracking website, works almost flawlessly (Outside auto-update not working properly for some users).

 

Wow you completely shut down all my opinions. Its clear i do not know what i am talking about. Thank you for educating me on these topics, i feel so much better now about the things mentioned. If we all had your mentality....

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2 hours ago, DaivRules said:

 

Claims are not the same as opinions. You don't get to hide behind "it's just opinions" when you make accusations like you did.

Those were my opinions. If you disagree thats ok. Everyone can say their opinions. To add to it, what you and the other guy said is irrelevant to me. I read the topic, posted my opinion and that was that. I dont really want to invest time even if its one minute replying to people who are irrelevant (dont matter) to me. My opinion obviously triggered something in you.

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