Suggestion - White List for Trophies / Games?

[ars]

13 minutes ago, ProfBambam55 said:

I'm pretty sure they can pop all trophies in some games actually...campaign or not...was under the impression this was case for black op's 2 and waw...recently heard of this for mw2 as well...

 

Hmm, I guess it's possible if there is a backdoor in the game engine allowing you to inject code into client software in a multiplayer match. Would take some really dedicated coding to create a host software like that, though :Q But I'm slightly skeptical on that claim until I see it with my own eyes. The hacker doesn't hack your console, he hacks your instance within his game. Then when the host synchronizes data between clients, the edited values spread into your game. In CoDs they are able to send the triggers for winning coop missions, for example, so I guess it's not too far fetched the games would accept any trigger as long as the value is known.

 

Edit: In the R* games the lobbies definitely cannot edit anything but the online values for the avatar instance.

Edited June 6, 2017 by ars

[ozgamer16]

30 minutes ago, ProfBambam55 said:

why should we let hackers ruin legit gamer's reputations?

 

Have always felt that if it is plausible that trophies were popped outside their control it should be removed without counting towards the flag limit, especially if the rest of their profile is legit.

Edited June 6, 2017 by ozgamer16

[ProfBambam55]

My info on lists comes from disputes...would appreciate a confirmation on what is actually possible or not...critical to be accurate if whitelisting becomes a reality...I'm sure sly and others would know more about this...

 

Disclaimer: I'm also useless when it comes to technology...have a friend I can ask about all this stuff...off to work shortly...will look into the list if this idea of white listing is considered feasible and a possible implementation...for now it was just intended as a proposition pending feedback...

Edited June 6, 2017 by ProfBambam55

[MMDE]

5 hours ago, MMDE said:

I think you should make a thread about it. Here's my suggestion for a fix:

1. Remove them only from the leaderboard of the whitelisted game.
2. No requirement to hide the game.
3. Preferably automatic.

And to be clear, this is only for those games where people very often gets their trophies popped by others online.

 

Edited June 6, 2017 by MMDE

[ars]

13 minutes ago, ProfBambam55 said:

My info on lists comes from disputes...

 

I googled around and on this very site there was a post where a user claims some of the campaign trophies unlocked for his friends through multiplayer. "Friends" of course, and I heard it from my sister's cat  But in general I have no reason to not believe what he posted.

 

However, being able to inject those triggers should be something really new, like last April new. It's an old game, years of development time for the lobby software. The fact that we know there are multiple CoD games affected isn't surprising, it'll affect the same engine MW2 uses the same way no matter which software it's used on, unless changes were made to that engine.

[grimydawg___]

Calm down @madbuk It ain't all doom and gloom.  Most who cheat have other games other than say CoD.  I've unwillingly had to flag folks when all they've done is that game mostly.  I'd rather deal with folks who claim they divorce because of trophies than something some minor as this.

[ProfBambam55]

at work now...I almost expected grimy to post "this dispute is settled" at the end there...haha...$hit, derailing my own thread...

[PSXtreme_]

IMO, if the games in question are causing so much strife and sleepless nights because they have been hacked and nobody can be trusted to earn trophies the right way, then the simple solution is to completely remove the hacked games from the database...PERIOD. 

 

 

This solves all of the horrible problems of Disputes, Trophy Hacker Nazi Hunters and judgement calls for online games that have their lobbies hacked to pieces and the developer/Sony not doing anything about it. Yes, it does remove certain popular games from the database, but this way the soul is pure and the disease has been eradicated from the body politic. Perhaps by removing the games from the database enough legitimate gamers will stop whining on third party sites about the problem and take it to those with the power to actually do something about it. With enough blowback, the problem will be fixed and the games can then be returned to the fold once the correction takes place.

 

[Nitro]

4 hours ago, ProfBambam55 said:

the trophies are now stuck on your profile

Not true. Deleting profiles do exist for this reason. If you keep your savefile, you will be find. For example:

Say you need 2 trophies for platinum in Black Ops 2: Reach Max rank and also complete all challenges in campaign. Then a hacker pops the platinum in a random game of MP. You can simply backup your save to a USB or PS+ Cloud Save, then delete your profile and download the save again and you can continue to play like nothing happened. 

You don't have to sync the illegitimate trophies to your profile, if you do that is on you. (Not implying you hack, just using "you" as an example) 

[thegirlruka]

@MMDE and I made similar suggestions before.

 

 

Just now, Nitro said:

Not true. Deleting profiles do exist for this reason. If you keep your savefile, you will be find. For example:

It is not possible to delete your trophies while playing on PS Now. Warhawk and Red Dead Redemption from the list of games in the OP are both on PS Now and if a hacker unlocks your trophies in them, you are stuck with them.

[Nitro]

2 minutes ago, kuuhaku said:

It is not possible to delete your trophies while playing on PS Now. Warhawk and Red Dead Redemption from the list of games in the OP are both on PS Now and if a hacker unlocks your trophies in them, you are stuck with them.

So trophies are somehow auto synced when playing on PS Now? That doesn't seem right. 

[thegirlruka]

Just now, Nitro said:

So trophies are somehow auto synced when playing on PS Now? That doesn't seem right. 

Yes they are. While I was playing Resident Evil 5 on PS Now they were synced as soon as they were earned. Without manually syncing and while still playing the game, the trophies showed up here on PSNP.

[DaivRules]

7 minutes ago, kuuhaku said:

@MMDE and I made similar suggestions before.

 

 

Thank you for posting this. I couldn't remember where I suggested these games just have their leaderboards removed all together, but it was in the Hide but no Strike suggestion. I still think it's the heavy handed solution, but solves all of this.

 

Couple points in support of this idea:

Whitelisting these from counting against the strike limit would still result in those profiles being removed from the Leaderboards, allowing those who have legitimate time stamps to remain.

If people do feel enabled to take advantage of this, it's not a big deal because they would be found, forced to hide their game and removed from the Leaderboards as well, not rewarding them in any way whatsoever.

[killer91ITA]

38 minutes ago, kuuhaku said:

Yes they are. While I was playing Resident Evil 5 on PS Now they were synced as soon as they were earned. Without manually syncing and while still playing the game, the trophies showed up here on PSNP.

So you can play from a ps4 a ps3 game using ps now and you can play the online portion? 

[thegirlruka]

9 minutes ago, killer91ITA said:

So you can play from a ps4 a ps3 game using ps now and you can play the online portion? 

It's on a game by game basis, but yes. They have the option to not allow certain content when they put their game on PS Now, but I'm not aware of any that don't allow you to play online unless the servers were already down.

[GlennRhee]

I agree with MMDE's suggestion. I'm not sure what all goes into deleting your user, but people in other threads have made it sound like it can take hours to get everything back to where it was. Imagine you take three hours to delete and restore your user, only to have it happen again the next day. Not playing those games at all is also an unfair solution - if you paid $60 for a game, why should you have to let it rot on the shelf because hackers are now popping trophies for everyone?

 

I understand that we want the leaderboards as clean as can be, but there has to be some kind of middle ground. I'm scared to go back to GTAV because someone in a dispute said that it's now hacked on PS4 as well. I'd be willing to delete my user to get rid of hacked trophies, but not if doing so would get me to lose games that have been delisted from PSN.

 

There's also the chance that someone doesn't have trophy requirements memorized because they're not actively trophy hunting for that particular game. They see a trophy pop while they're doing something in-game and think they've fulfilled the requirements for something, immediately check to see what it was (which will sync the trophy), only to find that it's an ill-gotten trophy. That person is now SOL.

 

I feel like the user being removed from that game's leaderboards/rarity, as MMDE suggested, is the fairest solution.

[Rowdi]

@DaivRules @PSXtreme_ what about people that earned their trophies for those games legit? I could care less, but I'm sure there are others that would get upset. I honestly feel like if someone cared that much about their profile, they wouldn't play five plus year old CoD games that are known to have these problems or at least not with randoms anyway.

 

I can somewhat get behind what @ProfBambam55 is saying. Most cheaters will have multiple games cheated on their profile, so it's not like they won't be caught eventually.

[FFHannibal]

I think this is a great idea and certainly warrants some thought.

 

I'm all for removing hackers from the leaderboards, I don't begrudge the leaderboard fanatics their fantasy of a 100% pure leaderboard, but I don't think it should take away other people's gaming enjoyment.

 

And enjoyment is really the only thing on the line here. There's no money made with earning trophies, you don't get a bonus for ranking high on the leaderboard, etc.

 

There are a few things I don't get though. First off, how is this not a witch hunt? Too often I see people typing out their dispute, just to have the next post be something like "Nice story, but we all know you cheated ". You don't know if that's true or not, you don't know what's going on in someone's life. Your job is to say "Ok. (Do you have proof.)", because if you don't you're labeling them as a cheater automatically. And it doesn't matter if you're right in the end or not. Cheaters are still people and deserve your respect.

 

Second, how is this giving a free pass to hackers? I'm starting to think there's a load of people that have never even had a conversation with someone in IT. You will never catch the true hackers. Hackers aren't dumb, they meticulously plan every little detail. The ones you catch are the sloppy ones. Add to that this is only for listed games in the OP, and impossible timestamp lists will still be removed from the leaderboard (just not from the person's list). "But what about the people that will ask their friends to hack a lobby for them just to get the trophies?", well frankly,  I think you've got an overactive imagination. If you think it's worth upsetting a thousand players for 'catching' 2 gamers like that, I don't know what that says about you as a person, but I hope I never encounter you irl.

 

(But anyway what am I talking about right? Upsetting people? Respect? This is the internet what can I expect right?)

[DaivRules]

3 minutes ago, Rowdi said:

@DaivRules @PSXtreme_ what about people that earned their trophies for those games legit? I could care less, but I'm sure there are others that would get upset. I honestly feel like if someone cared that much about their profile, they wouldn't play five plus year old CoD games that are known to have these problems or at least not with randoms anyway.

 

I can somewhat get behind what @ProfBambam55 is saying. Most cheaters will have multiple games cheated on their profile, so it's not like they won't be caught eventually.

 

You ask us to have concern for some peoples feelings for one reason but to be callous to other peoples feelings in the next sentence. LOL! 

 

Obviously our suggestion was extreme and completely over-reaching to find a solution. Once we find the unacceptable extremes to the solution of the problem, we can work our way back to middle-ground.

[nenugalimas]

9 minutes ago, FFHannibal said:

There are a few things I don't get though. First off, how is this not a witch hunt? Too often I see people typing out their dispute, just to have the next post be something like "Nice story, but we all know you cheated ". You don't know if that's true or not, you don't know what's going on in someone's life. Your job is to say "Ok. (Do you have proof.)", because if you don't you're labeling them as a cheater automatically. And it doesn't matter if you're right in the end or not. Cheaters are still people and deserve your respect.

 

Second, how is this giving a free pass to hackers? I'm starting to think there's a load of people that have never even had a conversation with someone in IT. You will never catch the true hackers. Hackers aren't dumb, they meticulously plan every little detail. The ones you catch are the sloppy ones. Add to that this is only for listed games in the OP, and impossible timestamp lists will still be removed from the leaderboard (just not from the person's list). "But what about the people that will ask their friends to hack a lobby for them just to get the trophies?", well frankly,  I think you've got an overactive imagination. If you think it's worth upsetting a thousand players for 'catching' 2 gamers like that, I don't know what that says about you as a person, but I hope I never encounter you irl.

Respect is something you earn, no one is entitled to be respected. If the only way someone can achieve something is through cheating, why should they be respected? What goes on in people lives is also irrelevant to the conversations at hand. The question is 'Are the the trophies illegitimate?' not 'how was your day?' 

 

When youre throwing numbers around like 2/1000, you have to provide evidence supporting those figures or the point is meaningless. Assuming the majority is innocent doesnt make it true. I can assume the majority is guilty and at that point its your assumption against mine.

 

You should really stop trying to emotionally coax people into agreeing with you. "Oh theyll be sad so we should just let it slide". Emotions have their place, decisions like these arent one of them.

[PSXtreme_]

25 minutes ago, Rowdi said:

@DaivRules @PSXtreme_ what about people that earned their trophies for those games legit? I could care less, but I'm sure there are others that would get upset. I honestly feel like if someone cared that much about their profile, they wouldn't play five plus year old CoD games that are known to have these problems or at least not with randoms anyway.

 

I can somewhat get behind what @ProfBambam55 is saying. Most cheaters will have multiple games cheated on their profile, so it's not like they won't be caught eventually.

I understand your point. I mentioned the fact that some VERY popular games would get removed from the leaderboards and that would also affect the majority of legit gamers. Perhaps the fix would be to not remove the games from the database, but instead remove their value from the trophy count instead. Nevertheless, unless there is a mass uproar created by the masses those in power won't fix the issue. This may be the match that starts the forest fire for reformation in the online gaming community. 

 

[ProfBambam55]

Quick break at work here...not understanding this recent idea...legit gamers would not be affected only players with implausible time stamps...as in those subject to flagging with the current system...those deemed as hackers would still be removed as per the current system as well...

 

not suggesting to remove all leaderboards for these games...we have a good idea of which games are affected although the trophies that would be subject to white listing still needs some refinement...

 

agree that emotion not needed and personal attacks not gonna help in understanding if this is a worthwhile change or not...

[B1rvine]

Well, I'm pretty sure I was the first to ever suggest a white list (in an early dispute thread) -- so I'm obviously in the camp for whitelisting.

 

But to be clear, this only means that anyone flagged for these games (or a specific set of trophies) will not have a strike against them.. They should still be removed from that game's leaderboard.

[thegirlruka]

4 hours ago, Gibbo_0113 said:

Question. Can modded lobbies pop campaign trophies?

I'm pretty sure they can. I know FOX's old account had bad timestamps on one of the call of duty games and he is the last person I would suspect to willingly cheat. Since his account had all of the solo only trophies unlock at once, it's very likely that they can pop campaign trophies.

[B1rvine]

@kuuhaku

@Gibbo_0113

 

1 minute ago, kuuhaku said:

I'm pretty sure they can. I know FOX's old account had bad timestamps on one of the call of duty games and he is the last person I would suspect to willingly cheat. Since his account had all of the solo only trophies unlock at once, it's very likely that they can pop campaign trophies.

 

I think it's dependent on the game too, for what can be popped.