DARKB1KE Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Milktastrophe said: Yes, that's what I'm trying to say. You have to look at the trophies manually to sync them. Do other people call that auto sync? If someone somehow gets trophies popping in a game they join, what do you think is the first reaction? The default reaction is to look at the trophy list to see them, at that point it's too late to fix it with that whole "profile delete" thing because it starts syncing (automatically). It's not "auto-sync" but it does automatically sync the second you look at your list. It's the choice of wording you used that I'm highlighting here. Auto can mean different things to different people. Edited June 7, 2017 by DARKB1KE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMDE Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) Is it confirmed that people can actually pop your trophies in MW2? The reason a lot of people got that one cheated is mostly because the save has no encryption. I've only heard a couple of people use the excuse that it was some jackass online who did it, and plenty who admit to using saves etc. 3 hours ago, Ms Serzilla said: Modern Warfare 2: Early 2015 to present: Once again, I say this date because it's the first time I heard of people complaining about all trophies being unlocked for them in a lobby, but before this time period people were hacking spec ops trophies with save files. I guess that answers my question! I very much think this game should be on a date system, because there's sooo many thousands that cheated it using a save file. Just to give a small picture, among the 15 000 first 100% achievers, almost 2 500 people cheated that game. Edited June 7, 2017 by MMDE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaganDraka4 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 3 hours ago, MMDE said: Is it confirmed that people can actually pop your trophies in MW2? The reason a lot of people got that one cheated is mostly because the save has no encryption. I've only heard a couple of people use the excuse that it was some jackass online who did it, and plenty who admit to using saves etc. I guess that answers my question! I very much think this game should be on a date system, because there's sooo many thousands that cheated it using a save file. Just to give a small picture, among the 15 000 first 100% achievers, almost 2 500 people cheated that game. Let's not forget the users who had their Campaign AND Spec Ops trophies popped within second from each other, however what's to say they didn't hack/cheat that as well? But then again, from firsthand experience with running into players who cheat/hack like crazy online in MW2 a while ago, I'm willing to give a few players a benefit of a doubt, minus the obvious ones who used a save of course. But I do agree that the games @ProfBambam55 listed do need to be whitelisted or some contingency needs to be implemented of sorts since those games (unless I'm forgetting any other games) are becoming constant offenders within the disputes just like the moderator said with dealing with BO2 and then some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfBambam55 Posted June 7, 2017 Author Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) I'm kind of sceptical about mw2 for now and agree that it should be dated if white listed...I will ask a friend who knows more about mods with this game when I get a chance...see which, if any, trophies can be auto-popped in a public lobby...I know the spec ops star trophies come up a lot and that a save file exists for them...it would seem that mods also exist to pop all of one's own trophies without having to alter time stamps...if campaign trophies can also be forced upon a player it makes this game a tough call...further investigation needed imo...I'm wondering if it would be easy to tell the difference between a hacked list and someone being in the wrong place at the wrong time based on their time stamps...the common trend I've seen with hackers is a six second or so interval between trophies over multiple days and other games on their profiles where many trophies have been earned in a similar fashion... Edit: i think all games in the list should have an educated agreed upon cutoff date... Edited June 7, 2017 by ProfBambam55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dav9834 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 It kind of just hit me... Without a white list I can never(almost) play any of the older Call of Dutys(of a few I haven't) without getting at least 1 strike or being mad careful about uploading any trophies. I really really loved black ops 2. It's sad to hear that hackers got into it. I just woke up and it dawned on me. I'm kinda late to the party on that heh... (I didn't see the major points for gaming in the present for whitelisting) So I'm changing my vote from undecided to whitelist(in some form). Because I know one day the nostalgia is going to hit hard and I'm really going to want to boot it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfBambam55 Posted June 7, 2017 Author Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) Well you can but you are kind of expected to know that if you're legitimately playing publicly online, the way the developers intended it to be played might I add, which trophies ding when to make sure they come up as requirements are met, pay attention to each trophy that comes up without looking at your list because you wouldn't want to accidentally sync the wrong ones, and know what to do if one of these trophies gets popped by someone with mods...this would also include syncing your trophies and backing up save data before each time you plan to go online...otherwise yes, expect a flag, dispute, and strike, to have to hide your entire list for the game and be removed from other trophy tracking sites due to having hidden games...oh, and even if you had it all recorded and prove that you were hacked, the current system doesn't want to have implausible time stamps on the leaderboards so the strike will stick...no comment on whether this seems completely reasonable or not...already voiced my opinion... Edited June 7, 2017 by ProfBambam55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kittens Are Awesome Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 16 hours ago, Potent_Delusions said: Warhawk shouldn't be on this list. It does not have hacked lobbies that award trophies, only hacked lobbies that make players fly faster/invincible etc. It doesn't pop the awards or badges or anything like that. But for the other games I can 100% agree. For me the shining example is Black Ops 2...people who don't care too much about trophies and want to play the multiplayer but also do not want to be flagged basically cannot play the MP because of the risk of trophies autopopping for them through no fault of their own. This isn't something you have to go out and seek...it's in a large majority of the public match lobbies that you access just by clicking "find match". It just seems very unfair to flag people like this because like others have said...exploits in Red Dead Redemption once had to be sought after in the MP yet people didn't get flagged for that. These kinds of games with autopopping of entire trophy sets through no fault of your own should be whitelisted. That's not true about Warhawk. When I was playing it regularly, I used to follow a couple of YouTubers. One of them had 3 ranks, and the associated trophies, pop all at once because of a random hacker in a lobby who recognized his gamer tag. Since unlocking General rank unlocks a bunch of customizations, I'm sure the hacker was doing it as a favor. Nevertheless, it has, and still does, happen. I was hoping to see Sly's response in here already. I'm kind of curious as to his view on this. I was a bit surprised by Grimy's response. Surpised he was all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ars Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 In his dispute teh_xtrmntr says Resident Evil: Revelations allows forcing trophy unlocks in public matchmake. I haven't played it so wouldn't know, but it's worth a look if this is true. https://forum.psnprofiles.com/topic/49289-teh_xtrmntrs-dispute/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfBambam55 Posted June 7, 2017 Author Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) OK...warhawk and re: revelations tentative games as well...are there any links we might be able to have a look at aside from people's words in disputes?...I will investigate later...don't get much free time in a day... As for comments from staff, yes it would be nice...as I think about the situation further I can't help but wonder why anyone would be against white flagging a small amount of trophies like this...the only real difference to the current system is no strike for the implausible time, no hidden mark on a player's profile, and only the questionable trophies hidden...the illegitimate times would still not appear on the leaderboards...aside from the "this will open the flood gates to hackers" which has been discussed thoroughly already are there any other reasons to be against this idea?...and if so, rather than just a negative comment, could someone plz expand on the logic?...I think it's crucial that we hear why this system could be good/bad so would like to problem solve together if possible..perhaps some examples why this white listing will not work might be good since we've covered why it could work enough imo... Edited June 7, 2017 by ProfBambam55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kittens Are Awesome Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, ProfBambam55 said: OK...warhawk and re: revelations tentative games as well...are there any links we might be able to have a look at aside from people's words in disputes?...I will investigate later...don't get much free time in a day... As for comments from staff, yes it would be nice...as I think about the situation further I can't help but wonder why anyone would be against white flagging a small amount of trophies like this...the only real difference to the current system is no strike for the implausible time, no hidden mark on a player's profile, and only the questionable trophies hidden...the illegitimate times would still not appear on the leaderboards...aside from the "this will open the flood gates to hackers" which has been discussed thoroughly already are there any other reasons to be against this idea?...and if so, rather than just a negative comment, could someone plz expand on the logic?...I think it's crucial that we hear why this system could be good/bad so would like to problem solve together if possible..perhaps some examples why this white listing will not work might be good since we've covered why it could work enough imo... For the record, I'm not for the whitelist plan. I was just correcting Potent's statement. However, just so nobody has to take my word for it, I was able to find that YouTuber. Read the description of this video. Apparently, he had all his stats unlocked: rank, badges, medals. Spoiler Edited June 7, 2017 by Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfBambam55 Posted June 7, 2017 Author Share Posted June 7, 2017 thanks @Phil for the info...will look more into this...sorry to single you out here but am curious as to why you are against whitelisting these small number of trophies...i respect and value your opinion and hope that you can explain it to me in a way that i can understand...the common argument seems to be exaggerating what is proposed here and taking it to a level that it's not intended to be taken too...ex. "well people will just start saying a hacker unlocked the trophies for them in every dispute" or "this will open the flood gates to hackers"...the list will be agreed upon by all before being finalized and it will basically be a tiny one...if it needs to be updated or games removed over time so be it...there will be no advantage to a hacker hacking these games...no free plat, no improvement of stats, nothing...i'm not convinced that the only reason people hesitate to hack trophies is because they will get a strike on psnp and that's basically what "open the flood gates" is implying if you understand what the suggestion of white listing involves here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindMango Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 ... We seriously need a whitelist for games like this, it doesn't technically make much sense to give them an actual flag even if there is a three strike system, hacked lobbies are no fault of their own. Essentially whitelisting someone means they're taken off that games leaderboards but aren't given a flag, simple as that, and these are like 10 or 15 games at most his happens to, if you're dealing with an actual cheater they always have actual cheated games that are flaggable 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaivRules Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 I keep hearing that people can have trophies popped in people's pods in LittleBIGPlanet, but FSM knows I would have loved for someone to pop my 24 hours in Create trophy for LBP2, I still have to sink 12 more hours into it at some point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kittens Are Awesome Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 2 hours ago, ProfBambam55 said: thanks @Phil for the info...will look more into this...sorry to single you out here but am curious as to why you are against whitelisting these small number of trophies...i respect and value your opinion and hope that you can explain it to me in a way that i can understand...the common argument seems to be exaggerating what is proposed here and taking it to a level that it's not intended to be taken too...ex. "well people will just start saying a hacker unlocked the trophies for them in every dispute" or "this will open the flood gates to hackers"...the list will be agreed upon by all before being finalized and it will basically be a tiny one...if it needs to be updated or games removed over time so be it...there will be no advantage to a hacker hacking these games...no free plat, no improvement of stats, nothing...i'm not convinced that the only reason people hesitate to hack trophies is because they will get a strike on psnp and that's basically what "open the flood gates" is implying if you understand what the suggestion of white listing involves here... Yea, I'm not sure about those reasons given. I see it two ways. First, there is already a leniency system in place. It is meant for any and all situations where leniency is due. I see this as falling into that category. Another is, you should be aware of what you're getting into. I knew of the possibility of having my stats hacked when I went into public servers on Warhawk. I decided to take that risk and enjoy the game as it was intended before trophy hunting the game. It is very common knowledge that CoD and GTA games are heavily modded. If somebody decides to take that risk, it is still on them if it actually happens. Again, see the first example if it does. I know Sly is usually very stern about these issues. I would not be surprised if he points out the same points I did, or at least similar points. I seriously doubt this is going to go anywhere. Good luck though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damon8r351 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Phil said: Yea, I'm not sure about those reasons given. I see it two ways. First, there is already a leniency system in place. It is meant for any and all situations where leniency is due. I see this as falling into that category. Another is, you should be aware of what you're getting into. I knew of the possibility of having my stats hacked when I went into public servers on Warhawk. I decided to take that risk and enjoy the game as it was intended before trophy hunting the game. It is very common knowledge that CoD and GTA games are heavily modded. If somebody decides to take that risk, it is still on them if it actually happens. Again, see the first example if it does. I know Sly is usually very stern about these issues. I would not be surprised if he points out the same points I did, or at least similar points. I seriously doubt this is going to go anywhere. Good luck though. I disagree simply because knowing what games are modded and hacked doesn't fall under common sense. It's only common sense to you and me because we've been participating in these gaming forums for awhile. A lot of people do not participate in these types of social media. I had a profile on yourgamercards.net for months before I even bothered to enter the forums, for example. And the information may be readily available by web search, but a web search is only as good as a person knowing the right questions to ask it. And then there's my next point: "Want to participate in the leaderboards, then don't play these modes in these games." I don't quite like a gaming website getting in the business of telling people what games and modes to not play in order to participate in all features of the site. That's my own business what I play, and I'm here to display my accomplishments in those games. The last person who thought he could tell me what to do was my father, and I didn't listen to him either. There needs to be some form of leniency for certain games that fall in this situation, whether that's a white list or something else, because punishing people by making them hide games they were intending on playing as designed is not the right thing to do. Edited June 8, 2017 by damon8r351 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kittens Are Awesome Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 1 minute ago, damon8r351 said: I disagree simply because knowing what games are modded and hacked doesn't fall under common sense. It's only common sense to you and me because we've been participating in these gaming forums for awhile. A lot of people do not participate in these types of social media. I had a profile on yourgamercards.net for months before I even bothered to enter the forums, for example. And the information may be readily available by web search, but a web search is only as good as a person knowing the right questions to ask it. And then there's my next point: "Want to participate in the leaderboards, then don't play these modes in these games." I don't quite like a gaming website getting in the business of telling people what games and modes to not play in order to participate in all features of the site. That's my own business what I play, and I'm here to display my accomplishments in those games. The last person who thought he could tell me what to do was my father, and I didn't listen to him either. There needs to be some form of leniency for certain games that fall in this situation, whether that's a white list or something else, because punishing people by making them hide games they were intending on playing as designed is not the right thing to do. The knowledge is not exclusive to forum users. Word of mouth does it. I didn't know about gta 4 and 5 lobbies being modded through forums either. I have a buddy, who doesn't use forums at all, tell me about it. Only cod did I know about through forums. I'm pretty sure many of the people who complain in the dispute threads once they've been caught knew about modded lobbies long before they came across them. Again, even if these people are oblivious, which I agree that there are some who are genuinely ignorant to it, there is already a leniency system in place. If they don't want to hide the game, that's up to them. The leniency system isn't just for people who have used save files in the past or just hacked one game. It's all encompassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damon8r351 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, Phil said: The knowledge is not exclusive to forum users. Word of mouth does it. I didn't know about gta 4 and 5 lobbies being modded through forums either. I have a buddy, who doesn't use forums at all, tell me about it. Only cod did I know about through forums. I'm pretty sure many of the people who complain in the dispute threads once they've been caught knew about modded lobbies long before they came across them. Again, even if these people are oblivious, which I agree that there are some who are genuinely ignorant to it, there is already a leniency system in place. If they don't want to hide the game, that's up to them. The leniency system isn't just for people who have used save files in the past or just hacked one game. It's all encompassing. Word mouth in my case wouldn't work. I rarely talk to anyone that's outside my family or co-workers, and I don't know about your co-workers but gaming is off the table as a topic of conversation. Some people are just like that, they don't do "buddies". As for the other point, the "leniency" system already in place is not really such at least in the case of these games. It's gating website features behind my gaming choices. I don't think PNSP should be in the business of holding back it's features based what I play, or also in the business of regulating common sense. Fair enough though, we can agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daftprophet Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 30 minutes ago, Phil said: The knowledge is not exclusive to forum users. Word of mouth does it. I didn't know about gta 4 and 5 lobbies being modded through forums either. I have a buddy, who doesn't use forums at all, tell me about it. Only cod did I know about through forums. You're lucky then because this is not the norm. I have never, ever heard, outside our exclusive community, that any trophy lists, servers, or modded lobbies were present. Maybe i am ignorant though. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dav9834 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Phil said: I see it two ways. First, there is already a leniency system in place. It is meant for any and all situations where leniency is due. I see this as falling into that category. Personally I did know about a lot of hackers in CoD, but I did not know about their ability to pop trophies against your will until this dispute system was installed(so I learned something!). However had I played all the CoDs I've played in the past just a few short months ago out of nostalgia, and trophies started popping I wouldn't have cared much about any consequences, let alone know. But a lot of people are not going to notice or care imo. And that would quickly go through 3 strikes with the amount of CoDs. As for your common sense thinking, I think very few know psnprofiles.com is going to give you strikes for playing an online game and have trophies pop against your will. There's bigger issues that people are ignorant about let alone that. Example A There's also examples of people who don't know who the vice president is. We can stick to gaming and ask how many people know who Shuhei Yoshida is. One persons common sense is anothers ignorance. But that's not the point of this thread. What I've gathered is there is no real negative(in reality, not theoretically) to implementing an *automated* white list for known common flagged trophies. Everything is the same(no leaderboard), except everyone on psnp would be able to play without worry. (and that's a lot of people) But even more, It takes a lot of TIME and WORK off of Grimydawg(the only one who is currently able to unflag) so he can focus on the more pressing flags. He mentions this in an earlier post. But yes it's all up to Sly because he's the one who would either be doing the work, or paying for it. If there's enough outcry and reason(like efficiency(which is my biggest ocd)). In the end all we can hope for is that he would. And I wrote way too much But that sums that up for me. Edited June 8, 2017 by Dav9834 Phone died, adding info now that it's charging Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfBambam55 Posted June 8, 2017 Author Share Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) OK, I hear what you're saying...whether or not this stuff is common knowledge or not I'm not 100% on...I can say that had I not participated in forums here I wouldn't know about many of the games in the proposed list and would have no idea what to do should I end up in a hacked lobby or that flags even existed...I also think that only a small % of tracked users actually visit the forums or know about all the stuff encompassed by this topic...regardless I don't think we should assume they do and hold it against them (by giving them a strike in this case) if they don't... As far as leniency is concerned, I was under the impression that it was mainly for save files on old games and exploits that people did outside of just playing the game as the devs intended...and I think that it should remain that way...it gives people a certain breathing room and particularly in cases like fifa 09 for example, where no one really knew the effect of what they were doing...sites like this were quite "primitive"...it also encompasses rare glitches, and as much as this also sucks, I'm not sure if anything can be done to evaluate them properly... white listing is in a separate category imo...why?...because the person is potentially just playing the game as it is meant to be played and I think sites like this should encourage that...I know leniency should be leniency but to me there is a big difference in terms of message between a strike and whitelisting...a strike says "you did something you shouldn't have"...whitelisting says "we know this happens and it sucks that it does"...just my opinion...thanks for the insight @Phil... Edited June 8, 2017 by ProfBambam55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegirlruka Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 I just can't help but think that none of this would have happened if that guy didn't freak out about GermanProGaming1... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRATOS_31090 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 On 6/6/2017 at 1:37 PM, ProfBambam55 said: What would be their motivation/imclination?...they really want to have hidden time stamps with no strike on their profile?...if, for example, you are missing trophies for blops 2 you go online with the intention of earning the trophies you need illegitimate for the plat...ding, ding...the proposition is to be the same as now...the time stamps are removed from the leaderboards and the plat revoked as far as the site's tracking is concerned...the only difference from the system now is basically no strike...why would more people want this?...are strikes on these listed games the only thing that prevent hackers with the current system?...if so, wow...no strike on a small selection of trophies = flood gates open?...trying to understand what you mean here... What I don't understand is in your example you are only missing 2 trophies and the platinum for black ops 2. You earn all the others legit. How is it fair to have the entire game removed even though they only cheated getting 3 trophies? Only those 3 trophies should be removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kittens Are Awesome Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 6 minutes ago, kuuhaku said: I just can't help but think that none of this would have happened if that guy didn't freak out about GermanProGaming1... There was more than 1 guy bitching in that thread, but I do agree with you, 100%. It seems like that kicked off everything. A thread full of group account users that aren't even part of this community. They poke their head in once a year to stir the shit and leave again. The dispute thread subforum has been one big cluster eff since it opened. I thought the random thread disputing a person's flag was bad. Now that there's a place to vent, everybody wants to be given the white glove treatment for their particular problem. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dav9834 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, KRATOS_31090 said: What I don't understand is in your example you are only missing 2 trophies and the platinum for black ops 2. You earn all the others legit. How is it fair to have the entire game removed even though they only cheated getting 3 trophies? Only those 3 trophies should be removed. I agree, but It would take more work/time/money to have it so the platinum is off of the leaderboards but not profiles at the same time. If sly implements a white list with these few games as described that's good for efficiency imo. Just trying to be realistic as if sly wanted something more automated, we'd see or hear about it by now. So this could do as is Edited June 8, 2017 by Dav9834 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfBambam55 Posted June 8, 2017 Author Share Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) Sorry, if I hadn't made it clear...yes, ideally only the trophies that are agreed upon as being white listed would be removed...not the entire list...my original image was that only the person who earned the trophy illegitimately would be able to see them with some kind of tag like "implausible times...white listed" or something to that effect with no time stamp(s)...clicking on it could lead to a thread that explains what white listing involves with the preventative measures should it happen again...i would also like to see a similar link included in the guides for the games that have white listed trophies...everyone else would see the trophies as unearned...this would include the plat if it dinged as a result of the final trophies being earned in a modded lobby...just an idea...first, knowing whether or not this idea could manifest into a system or whether or not it is even possible would be good...until then, all we can do is discuss it...the more we problem solve now, the better imo...so far, according to the small survey here, we have a majority that are interested in seeing it happen...still plenty of details to sort out though... Edited June 8, 2017 by ProfBambam55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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