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Suggestion - White List for Trophies / Games?


White Listing...  

548 members have voted

  1. 1. Should we have a white list for games like the ones described in the OP?

    • To White List...
    • NOT to White List...
    • Undecided/Divided Opinion...
    • Couldn't Care Less...


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11 hours ago, Phil said:

 

There was more than 1 guy bitching in that thread, but I do agree with you, 100%. It seems like that kicked off everything. A thread full of group account users that aren't even part of this community. They poke their head in once a year to stir the shit and leave again.

 

The dispute thread subforum has been one big cluster eff since it opened. I thought the random thread disputing a person's flag was bad. Now that there's a place to vent, everybody wants to be given the white glove treatment for their particular problem.

 

35 minutes ago, DaivRules said:

 

That's the same tactic as... terrorists! Are you saying the terrorists WON?!?!

Stay on topic please 

 

 

 

On 6/6/2017 at 3:04 AM, ProfBambam55 said:

I hate to do this as i'm sure you're busy but am going to tag @Sly Ripper on this as i think this is directly related to how the site is run and that the final decision will come down to what you think is easy enough to implement and best for the site...

 

recent disputes have led me to believe that perhaps we should consider having a separate system for trophies for games where a player can enter a public lobby and have a hacker auto-pop trophies for them without their consent...the goal of this thread will be to see if the community is in agreement with the idea of having a white list for such games and to also come up with a set of guidelines for which trophies and games could be part of a potential list of exceptions...

 

why am i suggesting this?...imagine you're an honest player and playing a game exactly as it was intended to be played; i'm convinced this is a majority...you have a few trophies left for platinum/100%, just started the game, and/or are playing fun...you enter an online lobby (or even worse, spend months working on the trophies) fully intending to participate legitimately...all of a sudden, ding, ding, ding, ding...you panic...you leave lobby/quit game but it's too late and you have no idea what to do...the trophies are now stuck on your profile...you haven't heard that it is in fact possible to remove these trophies because this has never happened to you before...you come on this site a few days later to check your stats or whatever to find out that not only do you have a flag but that you also are being asked to hide your game...people are saying "our goal is just to remove implausible time stamps and we don't know if you're a hacker or not?"...'what?...why should i have to hide my game i did nothing wrong?...i'm not a hacker...how can i prove i'm innocent?'..."sorry, just the way it is...hide the game...welcome to the community"...haha...yes, this is an exaggeration with the intention of highlighting the worst case scenario which i believe happens to the majority of players...

 

what kinds of trophies/games should make the list?...the only type of trophies that should make this list are ones that have potentially been auto-popped without a player's consent in public lobbies by a hacker...it is very possible and likely that the victim in the case has done absolutely nothing aside from playing the game as it was designed to be played...

 

what does white listing involve?...

  • ideally the trophies in question, not the game, should be hidden from appearing on the leaderboards by the site, not the player...
  • no strike is counted towards the player with regards to the recently implemented 3-strike rule for flagged games...let them keep these for the exceptional save file exploit ones from long ago...i.e. fuel/socom/fifa...

 

what is the benefit?...i feel that having a player hide a game like this is not indicative of the site's mentality that "it is just to remove implausible time stamps from the leaderboards"...it feels more to me like "you could be a hacker so you have to hide them"...white listing gives the best of both worlds...implausible trophies removed from leaderboards and victim feeling that the site is empathetic not accusational by taking action on behalf of the player...good for diplomacy...less chance of angering honest players...

 

which trophies/games should make the list?...here's where i need the help of the community as my knowledge is limited on this one...please feel free to comment and add further thought...here's what i've come up with so far:

 

  • Call of Duty - Black Ops 2: all trophies have the potential to be dinged by a hacker on this one...what about Big Leagues (currently unobtainable), right?...benefit of the doubt; white list...
  • Call of Duty - Modern Wafare 2: not 100% on this one...i know save files exist for this game but it sounds like hackers might also be able to auto-pop all trophies in a public lobby...is it a common problem?...white list?...
  • Call of Duty - World at War: another one where hackers commonly ding trophies for other players without consent...
  • Grand Theft Auto IVcut you teeth, wanted, and half million trophies can all be forced upon you...a hacker has the option to drop millions of cash on any given player...impossible to avoid...
  • Grand Theft Auto V - three-bit gangster, making moves, above the law...not sure how common this is anymore as R* keeps trying to patch the game and remove hackers...the methods for hacking have been around since day 1 but keep changing as a result...the common theme is that the hackers mess with the 3 rank-related trophies listed above...often it has been unavoidable...bounty exploits, direct hack, dropped cash, etc. ...
  • Red Dead Redemption - i know the online lobbies have been filled with hackers over the years but have no idea if trophies can be affected...haven't played the game in ages...will edit this in/out of list based on others' suggestions...please comment...which trophies, if any, can be affected by a hacker?...

 

as you can see this is an awfully long post for such a short list...we are not talking about a leaderboard revolution that allows an exploit for hackers to remain amongst us here it's just about giving the benefit of the doubt to anyone who may be unlucky enough to end up in a hacked lobby and have trophies ding without their consent...not sure if this is possible to code into the site's auto-detection system for flags and just remove the implausible times from the leaderboards...if too much work, it is not ideal but we could just deal with them on a case-by-case basis as they are flagged saying "flag removed...this trophy/game is white listed...please have a look at the thread dealing with removing hacked trophies should this happen again ...(provide link)...thanks..."

 

i think before any of this is implemented a thorough discussion should be had so please feel free to voice your suggestions, concerns, or criticism below...i'm pretty tired right now so i may have missed some key points, made some pretty horrible typos, or said something ambiguous or rude unintentionally...my goal is just to find a happy middle between "we want clean leaderboards" and "i didn't do anything wrong...i'm not a hacker"...thanks for reading and possibly also voting...cheers...

 

 

 

Is this the full complete request?

I think there's been enough discussion to put together the full proposal. I don't hear any new information as of late. And the poll is leaning heavily on whitelisting. 

 

Why not put it together and post it here as a new post with sly tagged and also send him a pm with it. Also tag grimydawg and send a pm to him as well as he seemed interested and it will save him a great deal of time on flags. 

Edited by Dav9834
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White listing games will only cause every dispute thread about these games to be about that people ended up in a hack lobby. Some will even use that excuse then even though they did actually use a save or so to get the trophies and never were in a hacked lobby.

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7 minutes ago, Tosmasta00 said:

White listing games will only cause every dispute thread about these games to be about that people ended up in a hack lobby. Some will even use that excuse then even though they did actually use a save or so to get the trophies and never were in a hacked lobby.

As been stated the whitelist doesn't keep you on the leaderboards.

Nothing changes in outcome between no whitelist or a whitelist, only you don't get a strike, and it's automated for grimydawg. There will be no disputes. 

 

Edited by Dav9834
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3 minutes ago, Dav9834 said:

As been stated the whitelist doesn't keep you on the leaderboards.

Nothing changes in outcome between no whitelist or a whitelist, only you don't get a strike, and it's automated for grimydawg. There will be no disputes. 

 

 

 

I tell you some people will abuse that fact then and use a save for each of the white listed games and when asked about em they only gotta say hacked lobby to get a free pass.

 

Might sound harsh (or like an ass) but i'm for that those games don't get white listed and those who innocently got affected by it have simply a case of tough luck.

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1 minute ago, Tosmasta00 said:

 

I tell you some people will abuse that fact then and use a save for each of the white listed games and when asked about em they only gotta say hacked lobby to get a free pass.

 

Might sound harsh (or like an ass) but i'm for that those games don't get white listed and those who innocently got affected by it have simply a case of tough luck.

This thread was to clean up the leaderboards, not their personal profile.

 

-If they hack a whitelisted game as has been stated, they are not on the leaderboards.

 

-There's no dispute.

 

-It's automated. 

 

If it wasn't automated I wouldn't be for it. 

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31 minutes ago, Tosmasta00 said:

White listing games will only cause every dispute thread about these games

 

Err… There won’t be any disputes about those games anymore. As I understand the suggestion, all “impossible” time stamps will be automatically removed from leaderboards, just without any flag against possible victims of hackers.

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On 2017-6-7 at 1:59 AM, daftprophet said:

You're kidding, right? Most people aren't aware of this process. You cannot assume everyone knows exactly what to do if this occurs. Just saying. 

Oh well. Tough luck.

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Apologies if the op is ambiguous...I'm busy and often tired...it was simply intended as a proposal to see if the idea would have any traction...I haven't had time other than today to sit at my pc for more than 5 minutes since it was written...i'm usually working and on my phone when I post...been trying to sort of mediate the ideas, take into everyone's opinions both for and against the proposed system (I.e. read all posts and respond) while also looking into hacked games, mod menus, people's profiles, etc...honestly I'd rather be doing other things but I feel that creating this thread has given me a certain responsibility to follow through as I really do think that getting trophies popped by hackers sucks...

 

I'm dead tired right now and am going to play some mgsv for a bit to relax as I've just spent a couple hours looking into gta v trophies/ranks/mods/hackers/etc...I would appreciate suggestions on improving the op or further brainstorming for or against the idea of white listing...just saying it sucks or is great doesn't really help much...i will try to summarize the ideas and put together something more formal in the upcoming week...I still need help finalizing a specific list of trophies...it takes a lot of research so anybody who could help look into credible information would be saving me a ton of time...gta iv and gta v are pretty much set...have researched  them extensively and can provide evidence if needed...the rest I still need to look into...warhawk, little big planet 2, and resident evil revelations have been mentioned so would like to investigate them as well...ideally, the list should only be for games where hackers can be deemed as hard to avoid...

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Black op's 2 all clients in public lobby all trophies unlock hack confirmed...found the menu now...includes all base game trophies but not dlc ones...looking to see when menu started...so far have found one created in 2014...will dig further when I get home...mw2, nothing yet...will keep looking...so far only in game unlocks (prestige/rank/weapons, etc) not trophies...sadly they can also remove all of these things from players as well...only trophy unlocks so far are self or save file usage...

Edited by ProfBambam55
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Cannot find a single mod for unlocking modern warfare 2 trophies aside from a) using a save file...b) having direct access to a person's account...i.e. you need to unlock your own trophies...side note: there are a ton of mod menus for this game as well as a readily available save file...online is in fact plagued by hackers...will dig a little more but it seems there is no need to have an "unlock all client trophy" option since the save file already exists...

 

Little big planet 2...no online mod menus...hacker accusations = 99.99% probability of lies...there is a save file that needs no resignation that unlocks everything in game and all trophies within minutes...easy access as well...

 

Removing these 2 games from potential white listing for now...

 

Edit: all this research has me violating Sony's tos...kind of imperative to get first hand experience...should i suddenly stop posting here, you'll know why...haha...take one for the team?...we'll see...

 

Next on the list is rdr...I don't have world at War, re revelations, or warhawk...will need to rely on info available online...hopefully can come up with some concrete data... No way of personally testing out the menus, should they exist, or joining mp lobbies...not going to buy these games...

Edited by ProfBambam55
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I found mods for re revelations...it unlocks certain trophies for raid mode only and within a few seconds apart...highly doubt it affects others in a lobby though since the ones it unlocks are related to ranks and bonuses...gonna have to call bull$hit on claims that a hacker unlocked trophies for other people since the data included in the mod is essential to unlocking the trophies...no reason to white list imo...

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Had to dig deep into the underground for warhawk...mods have all been patched...there was a save file exploit many years ago...patched...the only way to unlock trophies illegitimately is cfw...there is an rtm tool to edit stats... @Phil looks like the guy in your vid used rtm mods despite what he may claim...I also found someone looking for such a tool not long before his vid was made...possibly no relation...either way no one modded his game online...they must've had access to his account...warhawk not recommended for white list...

Edited by ProfBambam55
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World at War was too easy...so many mod menus available...you could easily have all your trophies unlocked in a public lobby by a hacker...seems like this has been going on for years...also seems that avoiding hackers is more difficult than finding them...definitely should be on the white list...

 

Last game on the list is rdr...will hit up the online in a few hours...see which trophies are affected by modded lobbies...

Edited by ProfBambam55
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@ProfBambam55 Good on you to do some extensive research on this. Like I said from firsthand experience and some personal research looks like most of MW2 trophies is likely unlocked via save files released publicly and the chances of hackers being able to hack your trophies are EXTREMELY rare or unlikely since there's no online trophies to hack, so I can safely say that the chances of this happening to someone is 0.1/10 but still possible, I checked my friends' lists who played with me online awhile back and a lot of trophies unlocked for them within seconds of each other such as remainder of Veteran difficulty trophies or Spec Ops trophies they haven't gotten yet or even the specific kill related trophies, hell I even heard trophy popping noises coming from one of their overly obnoxious loud mics. Unless I misheard it or I'm going deaf, I know what I heard and experienced that day and if you must know I've ruled out my friends on being hackers.

 

I happen to play this again a few days ago online, and I can confirm that these hacking bastards can give or take everything away from you just like @ProfBambam55 stated. I also found out through researching myself, that the MW2 servers were hacked to all hell even before the release of BO and even WaW and the devs did almost little to nothing to remedy the situation at the time.

 

So for the time being, I'm gonna be on the fence on whitelisting MW2 until I can find some more concrete proof as well but there is definitely no doubt that it's still plagued by hackers. I'm still going give this a very slight benefit of a doubt, since hacking in this game was just as ridiculously rampant as WaW and BO before/after their releases.

 

@ProfBambam55 I already beat you to it with RDR. Other than the hackers being able to do ridiculous things, the only trophy you can get ridiculously fast is the exp glitch trick with the specific posse mission online and that's about it a.k.a. the Level 50/Legend Rank trophy (which is encouraged by the trophy guides by various sites including this one) and anything else that anybody says is BS. So this is a no on the whitelist IMO.

 

My other friends have confirmed (since I don't have this game) that your Warhawk trophies cannot be hacked by others, only way is either you hacked it by using a editing tool of some sorts or by CFW.

 

For RE: Revelations I actually got paired up with a random hacker using an Infinite Launcher and infinite items and such, but none of my trophies (Campaign and/or Raid) DID NOT pop while I was playing with him/her even after the match was over. So these two games are also a no on the whitelist.

 

You're original post still stands @ProfBambam55 minus RDR. The CoD games starting from MW2 to BO2, GTA IV and V; should they be considered for whitelist? I'd say yes since they are the most popular games (all of them Top 6) and are plagued with hackers being able to do God knows what. Any other games than these 5 that are being discussed shouldn't be considered for the whitelist since a lot of us helped narrowed it down.

Edited by axlredgrave
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Thanks for the confirmation @axlredgrave...mw2 was a tough one...without going into too many specifics, I actually tried out what I thought to be the most current mw2 menu, which is a combo of several of the past menus as far as I can tell, and there was an "unlock all trophies" option but it didn't fall under the category of for other players in the lobby...just mine...I can try other mod menus and see if one of them has an option for all players...I dug around a lot after this but couldn't find anything...maybe I'll just hit up the game legit for a bit and see what happens...

 

playing rdr right now...the fact that it's mentioned in the guide to use hacked lobbies is kind of silly imo when u think of all the effort put into flags and disputes over trying to remove hacked trophies from the site...it's understandable why the author would want it but it leaves us with a choice if the guide is to remain unaltered...figure out which trophies can be dinged by exploiting hacked lobbies, mention them all in the guide, and consider these strategies as "normal" in unlocking the former thereby sort of automatically making them unflaggable...or remove the info from the guide...if i said " hey guys there's a simple way to unlock all the black op's 2 trophies...just play online for a few hours and you'll have all the trophies ding in about 5 minutes"...would it be acceptable?...i'd like to think for the sake of plausible time stamps on the leaderboards that it would not...compromise?...remove the info from the guide, white list the trophies for rdr that are affected by the public lobby mods...I'll do some research post some thoughts on the game...would appreciate other people's opinions on this game...

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38 minutes ago, ProfBambam55 said:

Thanks for the confirmation @axlredgrave...mw2 was a tough one...without going into too many specifics, I actually tried out what I thought to be the most current mw2 menu, which is a combo of several of the past menus as far as I can tell, and there was an "unlock all trophies" option but it didn't fall under the category of for other players in the lobby...just mine...I can try other mod menus and see if one of them has an option for all players...I dug around a lot after this but couldn't find anything...maybe I'll just hit up the game legit for a bit and see what happens...

 

playing rdr right now...the fact that it's mentioned in the guide to use hacked lobbies is kind of silly imo when u think of all the effort put into flags and disputes over trying to remove hacked trophies from the site...it's understandable why the author would want it but it leaves us with a choice if the guide is to remain unaltered...figure out which trophies can be dinged by exploiting hacked lobbies, mention them all in the guide, and consider these strategies as "normal" in unlocking the former thereby sort of automatically making them unflaggable...or remove the info from the guide...if i said " hey guys there's a simple way to unlock all the black op's 2 trophies...just play online for a few hours and you'll have all the trophies ding in about 5 minutes"...would it be acceptable?...i'd like to think for the sake of plausible time stamps on the leaderboards that it would not...compromise?...remove the info from the guide, white list the trophies for rdr that are affected by the public lobby mods...I'll do some research post some thoughts on the game...would appreciate other people's opinions on this game...

 

@ProfBambam55 No problem, always here to help out. And yeah, from what I've found out so far on my end, there are mods that do "unlock all trophies" option for the hacker but not sure if they can do that for other players but who's to say that there is or isn't a modded/upgraded version of that hack that let's you screw up others' trophy lists? After seeing that a mod that let's hackers unlock trophies DOES exist, I'm now a little more inclined to believe that there is a hack/mod out there that let's you screw others trophies up as well.

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OK, just did rdr now...the exploit made in a hail of bullets, long arm or marston, bullseye, how the west was one, legendary, put the posse on a pedestal, and you could say most wanted due to there being no cops, a cinch...gonna maintain that having this in the guide is silly in a sense...as far as whitelisting or not, I don't know...technically avoiding macfarlane's ranch is totally possible in 100%ing the mp...this thread is about hacks that auto-pop trophies...if clean leaderboards and plausible time stamps are the goal of the flags then this should be either flaggable or whitelisted...

 

 "the trophies are too hard to earn now"...we'll at least they're still obtainable...I spent days/weeks/months working my a$$ off earning all the trophies legit...why should my times be compared to hacked ones?...should we ask r* to shut down the server if the trophies are such a hassle?...this is not my opinion, just trying to imagine the argument against @Ms Serzilla and stay consistent as to which situations should be white listed...if the above trophies will always be overturned in disputes by pm's, then no need for whitelisting rdr...will await feedback and possibly remove from white list...

 

Now on to seeing if I can get my trophies hacked in mw2...haha...

Edited by ProfBambam55
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OK, I give up on mw2...just spent a couple hours playing various mp modes...most of which involved getting headshotted through walls and nuked from outer space...kill cams became a source of comedy...must've hit up over 50 lobbies and only 3 of them didn't have hackers...mp plagued by hackers?...yes...trophies dinged?...0...conclusion...having done extensive research, I spent the most time looking into this game of all the ones on the list, i'm going to have to recommend not whitelisting mw2...why?...there are not many mp trophies needed for the plat, assuming spec ops is considered mp, and I haven't found any mod menu that allows someone to unlock people's trophies in a public lobby...it would seem that save file usage and self serving cfw are the main culprits in people having illegitimate time stamps...white listing this game won't really protect legit players that much from what I can tell...if anyone has credible evidence of hackers auto-popping trophies for people, which would exclude people claiming so in disputes, plz post it here and I'll look into it...

 

I took a day off to book a trip to Paris in a few weeks...will try and formalize the white list proposal later today if I get a chance...

 

Edit: also, just to add a side note to @axlredgrave...you had said that because hackers have the ability to unlock their own trophies you would be more apt to give benefit of the doubt to mw2 players...I would agree except for there are plenty of games where this is possible not included in this proposed list...this would give people too much opportunity to abuse the logic and add games to the list that are not worthy of whitelisting...until concrete evidence is supplied to the contrary white listing should not be considered imo...

 

Also just a funny side note...a few weeks ago I knew next to nothing about hacking and mods...I'm pretty useless with technology so had to ask a friend for help...i didn't understand much of what he explained but find it funny that my main ally in this would be...well...a hacker...haha...shout out to him for all the help...weird f**king situation in retrospect...

Edited by ProfBambam55
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46 minutes ago, ProfBambam55 said:

 

I took a day off to book a trip to Paris in a few weeks...will try and formalize the white list proposal later today if I get a chance...

 

 

 

Also just a funny side note...a few weeks ago I knew next to nothing about hacking and mods...I'm pretty useless with technology so had to ask a friend for help...i didn't understand much of what he explained but find it funny that my main ally in this would be...well...a hacker...haha...shout out to him for all the help...weird f**king situation in retrospect...

 

A well deserved trip to Paris after all this hands on research! Hope you have a good time! : ) 

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6 hours ago, ProfBambam55 said:

Also just a funny side note...a few weeks ago I knew next to nothing about hacking and mods...I'm pretty useless with technology so had to ask a friend for help...i didn't understand much of what he explained but find it funny that my main ally in this would be...well...a hacker...haha...shout out to him for all the help...weird f**king situation in retrospect...

Hackers aren't all bad. There are different codes among them like any others. Some are paid to hack by a company to find and patch exploits and others hack to cause chaos.

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On 6/9/2017 at 3:03 AM, Dav9834 said:

As been stated the whitelist doesn't keep you on the leaderboards.

Nothing changes in outcome between no whitelist or a whitelist, only you don't get a strike, and it's automated for grimydawg. There will be no disputes. 

 

 

 

So someone can just make a false flag and it's automatically accepted? That would lead to more disputes.

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