Game of Thrones S7 Discussion *SPOILERS*

[MosesRockefeller]

9 hours ago, HaSoOoN-MHD said:

Am I missing something here? how is everyone scared for the giant flying fire breathing lizard of destruction with a tyrant driving it around instead of the people on the ground getting roasted like chicken.

I was SOOO sure Bronn was going to die when he manned that crossbow. And when Jaime charged I almost lost it.

 

The battle was on par if not better than Blackwater Bay. That's a pretty high mark to meet/break.

Maybe because the Lannisters are arrogant dicks? Jaime got some character development over the years but every time you think he might turn into a decent person, he goes back to his old habits and lets Cersei poison him into being evil. And now he no longer has 2 good kids to give him the opportunity to be a good father.

 

That said, Dany is definitely heading into "mad king" territory using her dragon like that. And why did she keep going for the food carts? Didn't she just finish telling her team that they no longer had food? So now you're going to burn it along with the Lannisters?

 

Anyway, the battle was cool, and I figure Team Cersei is going to work on improving the ballistas now that they know they work.

 

Let's see, what else?

 

1. Bran is a dick, I understand he's no longer himself but he could have at least been pleasant to Meera, who clearly has affectionate (maybe stronger) feelings for him. I see that the writers are going with the typical "I'm beyond your petty problems now" all-knowing being with him. Yet he either doesn't know, or doesn't do anything about, things like Littlefinger being a backstabbing betrayer.

2. Jon was nicer to Theon than he deserved. At least he recognized that he's done exactly one good deed the entire show.

3. I loved Tyrion telling Jamie "don't be a fucking idiot" and being proved right.

4. Dany called Tyrion on all of his plans failing... I wonder how that's going to play out.

5. The preview seems to be hinting that Dany is going off the deep end and her council is trying to pull her back from it. Interesting.

Edited August 7, 2017 by MosesRockefeller

[StarFang7]

1 hour ago, BG_painter said:

Could there be POISON in the arrow? Khal Drogo died from infected wound on the shoulder. Drogon has a wound on the shoulder. Let's all hope i am overthinking this

 

It is very possible, I guess we'll find out the damage next episode. I would like to think Drogon makes it through this season though. He has to meet Ghost after all ?.

[MooseSketts]

37 minutes ago, MosesRockefeller said:

That said, Dany is definitely heading into "mad king" territory using her dragon like that. And why did she keep going for the food carts? Didn't she just finish telling her team that they no longer had food? So now you're going to burn it along with the Lannisters?

 

I wondered about the food carts, too!  I figured that some of the gold was there in the midst, but she pretty much blazed through everything so... yeah... food is gone.  Maybe that's part of her "mad king" territory.

[MosesRockefeller]

2 minutes ago, MooseSketts said:

 

I wondered about the food carts, too!  I figured that some of the gold was there in the midst, but she pretty much blazed through everything so... yeah... food is gone.  Maybe that's part of her "mad king" territory.

I'm almost positive that Sam's dad said that the gold was safely in King's Landing, so I don't think any gold was there.

[HaSoOoN-MHD]

2 hours ago, MosesRockefeller said:

Maybe because the Lannisters are arrogant dicks? Jaime got some character development over the years but every time you think he might turn into a decent person, he goes back to his old habits and lets Cersei poison him into being evil. And now he no longer has 2 good kids to give him the opportunity to be a good father.

 

That said, Dany is definitely heading into "mad king" territory using her dragon like that. And why did she keep going for the food carts? Didn't she just finish telling her team that they no longer had food? So now you're going to burn it along with the Lannisters?

 

Anyway, the battle was cool, and I figure Team Cersei is going to work on improving the ballistas now that they know they work.

 

Let's see, what else?

 

1. Bran is a dick, I understand he's no longer himself but he could have at least been pleasant to Meera, who clearly has affectionate (maybe stronger) feelings for him. I see that the writers are going with the typical "I'm beyond your petty problems now" all-knowing being with him. Yet he either doesn't know, or doesn't do anything about, things like Littlefinger being a backstabbing betrayer.

2. Jon was nicer to Theon than he deserved. At least he recognized that he's done exactly one good deed the entire show.

3. I loved Tyrion telling Jamie "don't be a fucking idiot" and being proved right.

4. Dany called Tyrion on all of his plans failing... I wonder how that's going to play out.

5. The preview seems to be hinting that Dany is going off the deep end and her council is trying to pull her back from it. Interesting.

While I will agree that they're being too wishy washy with his development and it's ultimately detrimental to his character he's a far, far better person than a lot of character on the shows. Dany certainly has no moral high ground on Cersei they're both fucking awful and that was a cruel, cruel way to die for a lot of Lannister soldiers who were just following orders.

[Wxddlindan]

44 minutes ago, HaSoOoN-MHD said:

While I will agree that they're being too wishy washy with his development and it's ultimately detrimental to his character he's a far, far better person than a lot of character on the shows. Dany certainly has no moral high ground on Cersei they're both fucking awful and that was a cruel, cruel way to die for a lot of Lannister soldiers who were just following orders.

I gotta agree with you to an extent, if it were one of the first few seasons then I'd be singing the fuck the Lannisters and let em burn song, although I didn't like Dany for what she did there - but then again I like Bronn and Jaime has grown on me too. If it weren't for Cersei I think Jaime could have a shot at retribution with Tyrian, especially after discovering who poisoned Joeffey (Lady Tryell was a legend ) although it's more Dany who he could get along with, even after their strange history they even out and maybe end up facing the night king together with Jon. 

 

As far as Jon and Dany goes I hope Bran informs them of their relation, although I could see Dany using it to her advantage to claim the throne - not that Jon would be bothered by that.

 

But the most frustrating thing is that the last major/public conversation between Ned and Rodrick was of Ned leaving the hand of the king over an arguement in which he defended Dany's life .

[MooseSketts]

3 hours ago, MosesRockefeller said:

I'm almost positive that Sam's dad said that the gold was safely in King's Landing, so I don't think any gold was there.

 

I thought Sam's dad told Jaime that there were still carts to be taken to Black Water (or something like that)

[StarFang7]

7 hours ago, MosesRockefeller said:

The preview seems to be hinting that Dany is going off the deep end and her council is trying to pull her back from it. Interesting.

 

Very true, I think Jon will also be the voice of reason and advisor her. After all Dany listened to his council already and didn't take her dragons to King's Landing.

Edited August 8, 2017 by StarFang7

[MosesRockefeller]

15 hours ago, HaSoOoN-MHD said:

While I will agree that they're being too wishy washy with his development and it's ultimately detrimental to his character he's a far, far better person than a lot of character on the shows. Dany certainly has no moral high ground on Cersei they're both fucking awful and that was a cruel, cruel way to die for a lot of Lannister soldiers who were just following orders.

Yeah well, it was pretty fucking cruel for the Stark soldiers to be slaughtered by their supposed allies at a goddamn wedding reception... all of which was engineered by Tywin Lannister. It was also pretty cruel for Jamie to kill his cousin in order to escape being a hostage. Almost everyone in this show is cruel. Jon and Sam are some of  the few who aren't. In terms of the shades of grey (or shades of black) the show has morally, Jamie is better than average I guess, but that's still not very good. It just shows how morally bankrupt most of the people are.

 

I do think Jamie had a shot at being a good guy with his kids (not Joffrey). Hopefully the writers will give him some redemption in the end.

[Miles_Warren]

I don't think anything like this has ever happened before. I literally cannot recall a time I stood up, cheered and clapped my fucking hands off when watching a TV show. Those last 10-15 minutes were pure ? ? ?. I was getting kind of annoyed at how easily Dany was losing this war. In the space of three episodes she lost her entire Dornish and Tyrell armies and most of her Greyjoy allies. She needed a moment like this one. Heck, WE needed a moment like this one and we bloody well got it. Shame this season's entire budget went on this episode though. We're going to revert to Walking Dead territory and have 4 episodes of people walking about and not really doing anything ?

 

My only complaint is the amount of plot armour Bronn and, to a lesser extent, Jaime were covered in during this episode. Apparently, all you have to do to survive a dragon blast is to jump out of the way. I think Cersei needs to start losing a few valuable allies herself and I thought Bronn would have made a very noble and memorable exit this episode but it wasn't to be. Heck, at least let Dickon and Randyll Tarley meet their maker. Cersei is way too OP at the moment but then I am Team Dany so I would say that ?

[Kazeh54]

Great episode. So many good moments. Such a tense ending where I didn't know who to vote for as I love Jaime, Bron and Daenerys. 

The dragon won't die. I still think Drogon will die as he protects Deanerys from White Walkers.

 

While I loved this episode and that end battle, it still hasn't topped my best episode; The Battle of the Bastards

(See if that changes with the end of this season)

[BG_painter]

4 hours ago, MosesRockefeller said:

Yeah well, it was pretty fucking cruel for the Stark soldiers to be slaughtered by their supposed allies at a goddamn wedding reception... all of which was engineered by Tywin Lannister. It was also pretty cruel for Jamie to kill his cousin in order to escape being a hostage. Almost everyone in this show is cruel. Jon and Sam are some of  the few who aren't. In terms of the shades of grey (or shades of black) the show has morally, Jamie is better than average I guess, but that's still not very good. It just shows how morally bankrupt most of the people are.

 

I do think Jamie had a shot at being a good guy with his kids (not Joffrey). Hopefully the writers will give him some redemption in the end.

i like your shades of grey description specialy when i think of Jon. Exemple? here it is, He never hurt Olly (the night's watch boy) for killing Igritte but he killed him for the attempt *ahem* on his life. When i saw this epsiode with my hubby last season i considered exiling them, but my hubby said they would come back and try to kill Jon again and that's true.

 

19 hours ago, Wxddlindan said:

I gotta agree with you to an extent, if it were one of the first few seasons then I'd be singing the fuck the Lannisters and let em burn song, although I didn't like Dany for what she did there - but then again I like Bronn and Jaime has grown on me too. If it weren't for Cersei I think Jaime could have a shot at retribution with Tyrian, especially after discovering who poisoned Joeffey (Lady Tryell was a legend ) although it's more Dany who he could get along with, even after their strange history they even out and maybe end up facing the night king together with Jon. 

 

As far as Jon and Dany goes I hope Bran informs them of their relation, although I could see Dany using it to her advantage to claim the throne - not that Jon would be bothered by that.

 

But the most frustrating thing is that the last major/public conversation between Ned and Rodrick was of Ned leaving the hand of the king over an arguement in which he defended Dany's life .

I think Bran wants to inform Jon that he is a Stark and a Targaryen i remember when he arrived he said something that he wanted to see Jon (?)

 

3 hours ago, Miles_Warren said:

episode but it wasn't to be. Heck, at least let Dickon and Randyll Tarley meet their maker. Cersei is way too OP at the moment but then I am Team Dany so I would say that ?

Rickon?

 

 

Great to see more players joining our GoT round table!! woo-hooo more thought for conversation! @Kazeh54 @Miles_Warren @Wxddlindan welcomeeeeeee!

 

[MosesRockefeller]

3 minutes ago, BG_painter said:

i like your shades of grey description specialy when i think of Jon. Exemple? here it is, He never hurt Olly (the night's watch boy) for killing Igritte but he killed him for the attempt *ahem* on his life. When i saw this epsiode with my hubby last season i considered exiling them, but my hubby said they would come back and try to kill Jon again and that's true.

 

I think Bran wants to inform Jon that he is a Stark and a Targaryen i remember when he arrived he said something that he wanted to see Jon (?)

Yeah, I think that was the hardest thing Jon ever had to do. Kind of like when Rob executed the Karstark dude for killing the Lannister boys. Both were punishments for understandable actions, but they could not go unpunished by a leader who needs to be consistent and worthy of following.

 

Your idea would make sense, wouldn't it? Which is why the show will probably ignore Bran being able to tell people useful personal information, and stick with Bran warning Jon about the white walkers (which the preview hinted at). I get the impression that the writers are going for the "on nobody's side" all-knowing theme with Bran, and he will continue acting like a dick.

[Miles_Warren]

Thank you for the warm welcome @BG_painter. Now, show me where the Iron Throne is. I want to take my seat ?

[HaSoOoN-MHD]

6 hours ago, Miles_Warren said:

I don't think anything like this has ever happened before. I literally cannot recall a time I stood up, cheered and clapped my fucking hands off when watching a TV show. Those last 10-15 minutes were pure   . I was getting kind of annoyed at how easily Dany was losing this war. In the space of three episodes she lost her entire Dornish and Tyrell armies and most of her Greyjoy allies. She needed a moment like this one. Heck, WE needed a moment like this one and we bloody well got it. Shame this season's entire budget went on this episode though. We're going to revert to Walking Dead territory and have 4 episodes of people walking about and not really doing anything 

 

My only complaint is the amount of plot armour Bronn and, to a lesser extent, Jaime were covered in during this episode. Apparently, all you have to do to survive a dragon blast is to jump out of the way. I think Cersei needs to start losing a few valuable allies herself and I thought Bronn would have made a very noble and memorable exit this episode but it wasn't to be. Heck, at least let Dickon and Randyll Tarley meet their maker. Cersei is way too OP at the moment but then I am Team Dany so I would say that 

Bronn is too valuable as a character to sacrifice for a shock death. He's perspective too unique for that to happen; he'll only die if he forwards another character's development in a serious way which may still happen but I have a feeling he'll survive to the very end.

 

And by team Dany you mean team self entitled dictator?

7 hours ago, MosesRockefeller said:

Yeah well, it was pretty fucking cruel for the Stark soldiers to be slaughtered by their supposed allies at a goddamn wedding reception... all of which was engineered by Tywin Lannister. It was also pretty cruel for Jamie to kill his cousin in order to escape being a hostage. Almost everyone in this show is cruel. Jon and Sam are some of  the few who aren't. In terms of the shades of grey (or shades of black) the show has morally, Jamie is better than average I guess, but that's still not very good. It just shows how morally bankrupt most of the people are.

 

I do think Jamie had a shot at being a good guy with his kids (not Joffrey). Hopefully the writers will give him some redemption in the end.

Those same Stark soldiers who raped and pillaged their way through various villages? Tywin is Tywin but Jaime is not like him and neither is Tyrion. And quite simply Dany has no moral high ground of her own.

 

[Deadborne]

I think Jamie will be alright! He's very likely to be held prisoner by Daenerys and have a reunion with Tyrion. Now that he knows Tyrion is not guilty of killing Joffrey, some tension might be shed between them. Though there's still the issue of him having killed Tywin! Add Bronn to the two and we'll have a very big reunion indeed.

That being said, I'll say there's a chance Bronn didn't survive that plunge without a debilitating injury or something. I wouldn't be surprised to learn he got his legs burnt off or something similar. Game of Thrones rarely gives us a 100% happy outcome when several characters' lives are on the line at once. Last I recall two characters' fates were uncertain at the end of an episode, Grey Worm lived and Barristan Selmy died. I'd say Bronn's more likely wounded than dead though.

That was a really cool video, HaSoOoN-MHD! Really puts things into perspective! I'd say Cersei torching innocents might have had a deeper impact on Jamie's psyche that he lets on too though, and perhaps the upcoming reunion will set him on the beginning of a path against her as well.

[HaSoOoN-MHD]

The tension between them was never Joffrey's murder since unlike the books Tyrion didn't fake confess to spite Jaime; it's all about Tyrion betraying Jaime's trust by going on a little murder spree before fleeing KL. It'll be interesting to see how it gets resolved provided Jaime is a prisoner, of course.

[Miles_Warren]

12 hours ago, HaSoOoN-MHD said:

And by team Dany you mean team self entitled dictator?

 

Nope, that title belongs to Cersei

 

Dany is the type of ruler who looks after her people. She has freed slaves from their slavemasters, tried her best to get rid of the fighting pits in the interests of her people and, after freeing the Unsullied and even the Dothraki after Khal Drogo's death, gave them the option of following her and fighting for her place on the throne. Nothing self-entitled about that. Meissandei often says that her people are free to leave anytime they wish and Dany herself has assured her of this. Although a part of me does wonder how true that is now, especially since Daenerys is so close to the Iron Throne. I think Ser Davos picked up on this in the last part and mentioned it to Meissandei herself.

 

12 hours ago, HaSoOoN-MHD said:

Those same Stark soldiers who raped and pillaged their way through various villages?

 

The exact same thing could be said about the Lannister soldiers. In fact, this is a great point you made and one that makes me really love GoT. When you first watch the show, you think the Lannister army are the bad guys and the Stark army are the good guys but then you read the books or watch the show and you see this isn't the case. These soldiers are simply fighting for their Lords and the ultimate victim, like in any war, are the innocent villagers. I think this really struck with me when Arya first visited the Inn of the Kneeling Man and saw the bodies of Stark soldiers hanging from steel cages. When she inquired why those men were left there, the owner of the inn told her it was because they were rapists and murderers. It really emphasised that both parties in this war had their moral shortcomings and showed what the villagers and townspeople thought of both armies fighting in their backyard.

 

Of course, nothing compares to the treatment the Mountain and his soldiers did to villagers in the second book when Arya was captured by his men. They tortured the townsfolk because they thought there was gold hidden away somewhere. They gave them horrible deaths and I remember feeling disgusted reading those chapters. They touched on this in the second series of the show but nothing as graphic. Instead, we saw scenes of Arya as Tywin's cupbearer but that meant more scenes with the excellent Charles Dance so I can't complain lol

 

BTW that was an excellent video you posted. I was hoping that Jaime would see to his senses and team up with Tyrion to take Cersei down. But after watching that, it made me realise that it shouldn't happen as it is completely out of character. Perhaps the rumour of him killing Cersei is true, perhaps not. But I certainly don't think he will end up with Dany. Which makes me wonder how his story will end...

Edited August 9, 2017 by Miles_Warren

[HaSoOoN-MHD]

1 hour ago, Miles_Warren said:

 

Nope, that title belongs to Cersei

 

Dany is the type of ruler who looks after her people. She has freed slaves from their slavemasters, tried her best to get rid of the fighting pits in the interests of her people and, after freeing the Unsullied and even the Dothraki after Khal Drogo's death, gave them the option of following her and fighting for her place on the throne. Nothing self-entitled about that. Meissandei often says that her people are free to leave anytime they wish and Dany herself has assured her of this. Although a part of me does wonder how true that is now, especially since Daenerys is so close to the Iron Throne. I think Ser Davos picked up on this in the last part and mentioned it to Meissandei herself.

 

 

The exact same thing could be said about the Lannister soldiers. In fact, this is a great point you made and one that makes me really love GoT. When you first watch the show, you think the Lannister army are the bad guys and the Stark army are the good guys but then you read the books or watch the show and you see this isn't the case. These soldiers are simply fighting for their Lords and the ultimate victim, like in any war, are the innocent villagers. I think this really struck with me when Arya first visited the Inn of the Kneeling Man and saw the bodies of Stark soldiers hanging from steel cages. When she inquired why those men were left there, the owner of the inn told her it was because they were rapists and murderers. It really emphasised that both parties in this war had their moral shortcomings and showed what the villagers and townspeople thought of both armies fighting in their backyard.

 

Of course, nothing compares to the treatment the Mountain and his soldiers did to villagers in the second book when Arya was captured by his men. They tortured the townsfolk because they thought there was gold hidden away somewhere. They gave them horrible deaths and I remember feeling disgusted reading those chapters. They touched on this in the second series of the show but nothing as graphic. Instead, we saw scenes of Arya as Tywin's cupbearer but that meant more scenes with the excellent Charles Dance so I can't complain lol

 

BTW that was an excellent video you posted. I was hoping that Jaime would see to his senses and team up with Tyrion to take Cersei down. But after watching that, it made me realise that it shouldn't happen as it is completely out of character. Perhaps the rumour of him killing Cersei is true, perhaps not. But I certainly don't think he will end up with Dany. Which makes me wonder how his story will end...

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. 

Daenerys crucified 163 masters crucified without trial. Sacked three cities. Ruled one like an oppressive dictator unwilling to assimilate with her new subjects (when Aegon conquered he did everything to be like the Wersterosi). After failing to rule she's leaving the land she freed from slavery in the hands of a sellsword and a subsequent power vacuum which will certainly result in more bloodshed to go and conquer a land free from slavery with a bunch of unwashed savages whom she adores but also happen to be fond of the slavery thing. All because "it's her right." And her right is worth even more bloodshed. The show even pokes fun at her self entitlement with all the self given titles she has when Jon/Dany first meet. She is tyrannical. Has a good heart, certainly a better one than Cersei, but absolutely tyrannical. 

 

The sheer presence of the Dothraki in her forces represents a massive moral dilemma since their way of life is completely incompatible with any form of civilization. 

[Miles_Warren]

40 minutes ago, HaSoOoN-MHD said:

Daenerys crucified 163 masters crucified without trial.

 

Yep but after these same masters crucified slaves and young children as a warning to Daenaerys to stay away from Meereen. Revenge is a dish best served cold. Good riddance I say.

 

42 minutes ago, HaSoOoN-MHD said:

After failing to rule she's leaving the land she freed from slavery in the hands of a sellsword and a subsequent power vacuum which will certainly result in more bloodshed to go and conquer a land free from slavery with a bunch of unwashed savages whom she adores but also happen to be fond of the slavery thing

 

I'll give you this one. I can't see that one ending well. After freeing Astapor and moving onto Yunkai and Meereen, there was a power struggle in Astapor that Dany tried to resolve (at least in the books). The people she left in charge of the city turned out to be as tyrannical as the slave masters and they were overthrown. I can see the same thing happening in Meereen in the near future if it hasn't already happened. Unfortunately, I imagine we've seen the last of Meereen in the TV show so we might have to wait until the books come out and touch upon this.

 

46 minutes ago, HaSoOoN-MHD said:

All because "it's her right." And her right is worth even more bloodshed.

 

It is her right. As the daughter of Aerys Targareyn she is the rightful heir to the throne. Sure, Aerys was overthrown during the Baratheon rebellion but that didn't mean that the Targaryns lost their claim to the throne. It simply meant that the throne passed down to the next in line. That is why Robert tried to have every last Targaryn murdered as he knew that even one was left alive, they would have a better claim to the throne than he did.

 

And every war for the throne ends in bloodshed - from Aegon I arriving in Westoros to Robert's Rebellion, to the War of the Five Kings to Cersei blowing up the High Septon and killing hundreds of innocent people. You don't get to sit on the Iron Throne with softly spoken words. But, as we see in the preview of next weeks episode, 

Spoiler

Dany is still willing to give the Lannister soldiers an opportunity to join her. Despite them wiping out one of allies and one of the most powerful Houses in Westeros (Tyrell), she is still willing to give these soldiers a second chance and join her. She may have to kill them if they refuse but that choice is obvious as it means less soldiers for Cersei.

 

59 minutes ago, HaSoOoN-MHD said:

The sheer presence of the Dothraki in her forces represents a massive moral dilemma since their way of life is completely incompatible with any form of civilization.

 

Again, I agree with you here. This will definitely be a problem for Dany in the future. Once the war is over, what does she do with this force she has unleashed in Westeros? She already told Yara Greyjoy that the Iron Islanders can no longer pillage and rape once she becomes ruler. Perhaps something similar could be said towards the Dothraki. Although I have a feeling they won't be as forthcoming as the Greyjoys....not that I think the Greyjoys were been completely honest when they said they would no longer do that stuff.

 

I have to say I am enjoying this debate. Thanks @HaSoOoN-MHD

[MosesRockefeller]

16 hours ago, HaSoOoN-MHD said:

Those same Stark soldiers who raped and pillaged their way through various villages? Tywin is Tywin but Jaime is not like him and neither is Tyrion. And quite simply Dany has no moral high ground of her own

I never said Dany had moral high ground. I do think she has better morals than Cersei and Jamie, but it's still shades of grey.

 

And as I said before, most of the people in this show are rotten, so yes, soldiers on all sides are pretty fucking terrible.

 

Jamie is a character I want to like, but there is so much stacked against that. He's pretty much the definition of a privileged prick, and there is nothing I hate more than that. That said, he's had some growth through the series, especially after losing his hand. But he's certainly not as easy to like as a good person, like Jon, Sam, or Davos. Tyrion, as cynical as he is, still had more growth and has really overcome his background (and his disability).

Edited August 9, 2017 by MosesRockefeller

[Wxddlindan]

Jorah's a favourite, but so is Bronn  

 

Dany, Jon, Tryion and a few others are just givens,

 

and Jaime has grown on me  

 

Did anyone see the jail break trailer before season 7 out of interest, might be slight spoilers here so be warned  

 

The two major points was the Azor Ahai in a midst of fire with a mix of dothraki and white walkers in the background, in which he slammed his sword into the ground causing a strip of fire seen previously by the children of the forest. From this I'm gonna put my bet on it being Jorah, and I sure as s**t hope so. Also it was somewhere in northern westeros, so I'm gonna guess Dragonstone or Winterfell (meaning winter has broken through the wall ❄️) .

 

The second clip was drakaris flying over the red keep smashing part of the keep, which was awesome ??☄️?. 

 

Again, this footage wasn't official, but it certainly looked authentic, so I'm excited alright  ?☄️

Edited August 9, 2017 by Wxddlindan

[HaSoOoN-MHD]

8 hours ago, MosesRockefeller said:

I never said Dany had moral high ground. I do think she has better morals than Cersei and Jamie, but it's still shades of grey.

 

And as I said before, most of the people in this show are rotten, so yes, soldiers on all sides are pretty fucking terrible.

 

Jamie is a character I want to like, but there is so much stacked against that. He's pretty much the definition of a privileged prick, and there is nothing I hate more than that. That said, he's had some growth through the series, especially after losing his hand. But he's certainly not as easy to like as a good person, like Jon, Sam, or Davos. Tyrion, as cynical as he is, still had more growth and has really overcome his background (and his disability).

Better morals than Cersei? better intentions but I don't know about morals. Both are just kind of awful right now; Cersei blew up the Sept and Dany just starved half the kingdom with her dragon attack. Better than Jaime? I don't think so. Dany has left more destruction and death in her wake than Jaime ever could and killing her father at the cost of his honor because it wast he right thing to do proves his mettle.

9 hours ago, Miles_Warren said:

 

Yep but after these same masters crucified slaves and young children as a warning to Daenaerys to stay away from Meereen. Revenge is a dish best served cold. Good riddance I say.

 

 

I'll give you this one. I can't see that one ending well. After freeing Astapor and moving onto Yunkai and Meereen, there was a power struggle in Astapor that Dany tried to resolve (at least in the books). The people she left in charge of the city turned out to be as tyrannical as the slave masters and they were overthrown. I can see the same thing happening in Meereen in the near future if it hasn't already happened. Unfortunately, I imagine we've seen the last of Meereen in the TV show so we might have to wait until the books come out and touch upon this.

 

 

It is her right. As the daughter of Aerys Targareyn she is the rightful heir to the throne. Sure, Aerys was overthrown during the Baratheon rebellion but that didn't mean that the Targaryns lost their claim to the throne. It simply meant that the throne passed down to the next in line. That is why Robert tried to have every last Targaryn murdered as he knew that even one was left alive, they would have a better claim to the throne than he did.

 

And every war for the throne ends in bloodshed - from Aegon I arriving in Westoros to Robert's Rebellion, to the War of the Five Kings to Cersei blowing up the High Septon and killing hundreds of innocent people. You don't get to sit on the Iron Throne with softly spoken words. But, as we see in the preview of next weeks episode, 

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Dany is still willing to give the Lannister soldiers an opportunity to join her. Despite them wiping out one of allies and one of the most powerful Houses in Westeros (Tyrell), she is still willing to give these soldiers a second chance and join her. She may have to kill them if they refuse but that choice is obvious as it means less soldiers for Cersei.

 

 

Again, I agree with you here. This will definitely be a problem for Dany in the future. Once the war is over, what does she do with this force she has unleashed in Westeros? She already told Yara Greyjoy that the Iron Islanders can no longer pillage and rape once she becomes ruler. Perhaps something similar could be said towards the Dothraki. Although I have a feeling they won't be as forthcoming as the Greyjoys....not that I think the Greyjoys were been completely honest when they said they would no longer do that stuff.

 

I have to say I am enjoying this debate. Thanks @HaSoOoN-MHD

Revenge is not justice. These people were mostly bad but some of them were good and just and got put to the stake like whatshisface's father, the guy Dany was meant to marry. That's the problem with mob mentality and that's why Dany will never be a good ruler - she's driven by emotion, not logic or a combination of the two. She's angry, wrathful and kind of like that one kid in class who always talked back to the teacher no matter the consequence. 

 

Her right will come a the price of plenty of bloodshed and a power vacuum once she dies because she can't have children. That's the self entitlement i'm talking about - on a technical and legal level her dynasty's been deposed and their claim to the throne is simply dead, sure you can still argue it's her ''right'' but her right comes at a heavy price for the people she claims to love so much and the people she wants to rule justly over. Why doesn't she stay in Essos and stabilize the situation there instead of crossing the Narrow sea?

 

The Greyjoys at least have some semblance of civility. Dothraki simply don't. At best they'll become seafaring pirates like the Greyjoys and at worst they'll pillage on land and work ships around the seas.

 

Me too.

[RedPage17]

15 hours ago, HaSoOoN-MHD said:

on a technical and legal level her dynasty's been deposed and their claim to the throne is simply dead, sure you can still argue it's her ''right'' but her right comes at a heavy price for the people she claims to love so much and the people she wants to rule justly over.

 

Her dynasty consisted of conquering tyrants that had a 50/50 shot of being insane. When it's all said and done not much of a claim.

 

I don't like Dany much, but I do think she is an interesting character. She is a villain that is presented to viewers through rose colored glasses that just happens to lead an army of murdering rapists.

[Ringtonwhaledog]

This is an excellent, thoughtful debate and shows the diversity of opinion in how we all view GoT and its multiple layers of grey.

 

The preview of the next episode is carefully crafted to deceive what happens next to build the anticipation

 

My predictions for how it will be at the end of S7 as follows.....

 

• Cersei will fall ( & would not be surprised if its Jaime (who I think survives the watery end of E4 ) that kills her as he knows what she really is ( & history in an ironic twist repeats itself) and there is the prophecy that she dies at the hands of a 'little brother'........also Cersei will not care when told that Tyrion is innocent of Joffreys death and that is what finally decides it for him )
• Dany will take the Iron Throne as the world has now seen the awesome destructive power of her dragons ( and an Army in the field can not stand upto them & their superbow did not take Drogon down, only injured ) and dont think she will go 'Mad Queen' ( but wanting something is sometimes better than getting it and it wont meet her expectations )
• Jon's true parentage is revealed and actually helps to reconcile the north and south, given he is both a Stark & Targaryan
• Theon will rescue Yara and kill his Uncle ( Euron will commits some atrocities that would make Ramsay blush)
• They all unite ready for Night King, who is now south of the Wall with his Army of the Dead
• Then Season 8 is all about the war with the Walkers

Could go on....

 

I expect lots of deaths, lots of twists, lots of violence, sex and language - but that why we all watch it !!!