How is the game?

[Oobedoob S Benubi]

Trying to find out more about the game, but the only active thread on here seems to be complaining about the lack of a platinum trophy so I figured I'd create a new thread.

 

To everyone who has played the game, what are your thoughts on it? Please don't bring the trophy list into the discussion, the other thread is for that. I'm looking for opinions on the game itself.

 

howlongtobeat.com indicates the game can be played through in about five hours, would this be correct? I understood there to be twelve zones, all with boss and mid-boss.

 

Many professional reviews claim this is the one of the best Sonic Games ever, but would the game be interesting for people who haven't played a lot of Sonic before?

[StrickenBiged]

8 minutes ago, BillyHorrible said:

but would the game be interesting for people who haven't played a lot of Sonic before

 

If you haven't played one before, then I'd say wait for a sale before jumping in. Sonic fans revere the early games and their design which, IMO, were horrible, punishing, confused experiences.

 

I'm of the opinion that Sonic has never been good... and I'm curmudgeonly.

[Oobedoob S Benubi]

15 minutes ago, StrickenBiged said:

 

If you haven't played one before, then I'd say wait for a sale before jumping in. Sonic fans revere the early games and their design which, IMO, were horrible, punishing, confused experiences.

 

I'm of the opinion that Sonic has never been good... and I'm curmudgeonly.

 

I played a wee bit of Sonic 1 and/or two on a friend's SEGA console but never got far, though I liked the design of Green Hill Zone.

 

I played Sonic & Knuckles and Sonic Generations on my X360 and thought thry were pretty decent, though I got both on sales for a few euros.

 

Honestly, that €20 price tag is what's keeping me back the most, if it was €10 I probably would have bought the game day one. I say this knowing full well that I paid €25 for Shovel Knight and consider it money well spent, but Sonic Mania is not as sure a thing for me as Shovel, and Shovel has more gameplay thanks to free DLC.

[StrickenBiged]

39 minutes ago, BillyHorrible said:

if it was €10 I probably would have bought the game day one

 

I think you might have answered your own thread there! ?

 

For me, I've never enjoyed the physics in Sonic games. He's too skiddy and slidey. And the levels can't work out whether they want you to go fast or take your time and explore for secrets. Sonic clearly wants to go fast, but the level design has never matched the gameplay in those early games, IMO.

[Shadiochao]

I've seen a lot of people who never previously enjoyed or understood Sonic who have been able to enjoy this game.

 

I certainly think this is one of the better 2D titles, maybe even the best. If you enjoyed Sonic & Knuckles then this is more of that style of gameplay. Sonic 1 and CD were kind of different to the other games, although not to a significant degree.

 

 

2 minutes ago, StrickenBiged said:

For me, I've never enjoyed the physics in Sonic games. He's too skiddy and slidey. And the levels can't work out whether they want you to go fast or take your time and explore for secrets. Sonic clearly wants to go fast, but the level design has never matched the gameplay in those early games, IMO.

 

I don't think the levels ever want you to take your time and explore for secrets. I've always felt that the secrets are little things you're meant to just stumble upon. If you see something that looks a little suspicious and you're able to reach it, then you can go for it. But anything that you might find can easily be found anywhere else in the game, and missing it won't cause any problems.

 

The exception to this is Sonic CD, which has a bigger focus on exploration. But even then, you can still choose to ignore all that and play it as a normal platformer without any consequences, since you can still get the best ending through other means.

[dermarx]

Actually, I like this a lot. It reminds me of Sonic 3 or Sonic & Knuckles. Too bad I didn't have much time to play it yet.

[angelgrievous]

I think it's a fun game in spurts to be honest.  I'm a fan of Sonic.  My mom bought me a Sega as an X-Mas gift once and Sonic came with it.  I played the hell out of it.  I think the fun in Sonic games is in the different approaches you can take to each level.  You can speed through it, try to collect all of the rings, find the secrets, etc...  For me this provides a lot of replay.  I've been playing it 1 to 2 zones at a time.  I should have bought it on Switch for this reason but I had some PSN credit so...

 

If you are a fan of Sonic games this is one of the best.  It looks great and the music is fan-f'ing-tastic.  The level design is great too, many different paths to try.  There are secret levels hidden throughout and I'm looking forward to going back through and trying to find them all.  There are other modes to try as well, some available from the start and some are unlockable/secret.

 

All in all I'd say it's a pretty good value at $20 if you are a fan of Sonic games.  If you're not then maybe wait for a price break, although, I'd say it's worth it even if you are just mildly curious.

[Oobedoob S Benubi]

Thanks for the opinions, all. Still don't know what I'm going to do but chances are high I'll just buy the game in the end, at most waiting until the first or second discount.

 

19 hours ago, StrickenBiged said:

 

I think you might have answered your own thread there!

 

For me, I've never enjoyed the physics in Sonic games. He's too skiddy and slidey. And the levels can't work out whether they want you to go fast or take your time and explore for secrets. Sonic clearly wants to go fast, but the level design has never matched the gameplay in those early games, IMO.

 

Well the thread was more about opinions about the game. I might still be convinced that €20 is a price I can justify buying it for.

 

I get what you mean, personally I as a kid thought it was weird that the character could go so fast yet the levels never allowed him to. The SNES Roadrunner and Buster Busts Loose games had some great running segments for their fast characters.

 

19 hours ago, Shadiochao said:

I've seen a lot of people who never previously enjoyed or understood Sonic who have been able to enjoy this game.

 

I certainly think this is one of the better 2D titles, maybe even the best. If you enjoyed Sonic & Knuckles then this is more of that style of gameplay. Sonic 1 and CD were kind of different to the other games, although not to a significant degree.

 

 

 

I don't think the levels ever want you to take your time and explore for secrets. I've always felt that the secrets are little things you're meant to just stumble upon. If you see something that looks a little suspicious and you're able to reach it, then you can go for it. But anything that you might find can easily be found anywhere else in the game, and missing it won't cause any problems.

 

The exception to this is Sonic CD, which has a bigger focus on exploration. But even then, you can still choose to ignore all that and play it as a normal platformer without any consequences, since you can still get the best ending through other means.

 

I guess that might be one of the reasons why I never got through Sonic CD, while I did buy it on X360 - the layout was too confusing for me to get where I "should" go.

[Super-Fly Spider-Guy]

I loved it.

 

I'm no hardcore Sonic fan, I have one tshirt and a few games, that's it.

 

I've played Sonic 1, 2, 3, Knuckles, CD, 3D Blast, that Flickies Island one, 2006, Rush, Rush Adventure, Advance, Generations (and the 3DS version), Adventure 1, All-Stars Racing, Shadow's game, Sonic Racers or whatever the snowboard one was called, Sonic Drift, and probably countless more ones I'm forgetting. Various compilations and re-releases are the main reason. Oh, and Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine, obviously. And Sonic Boom on Wii U, which was shit. Or Lost World. It was on Wii U and it sucked. Oh, and Sonic 4, which I enjoyed.

 

Anyway, Sonic 2 always was and probably always will be my favorite it. And it still is. Sonic Mania though, it's definitely in the top five, with room to go up into the top 3. I've played and enjoyed the 3D ones fine, and even got through '06 on 360 with little to no memory of glitches so that's cool. But I prefer the old school ones. This is a great old school one, it's a great homage / sequel to those Mega Drive games, but the thing is, beyond that it's probably not that great. It's meant to be that though, so it's cool, but if you're not a Mega Drive / Genesis Sonic fan then this ain't gonna be for you, but if you enjoy Sonic 1 through Knuckles, then this is an absolute blast.

 

Took me probably 3 or 4 hours, but then there's time trials and the ability to replay as Sonic, Sonic and Tails, Tails, Knuckles, and Big the Cat (not really) and it's pretty good. I'd have liked a few more original levels, but the remake levels change up enough shit they feel pretty new most of the time anyway. I'll be diving back in the second I have the time, it's a great Sonic game and a great platformer, but it's only a few hours and if you're not already a fan of Sonic I don't see it being the one to win you over.

 

I'd recommend you grab it on Switch though, it looks shiny and nice on the big screen as you'd expect, but it's the only version that lets you take it on the go in any way, and it's a blast on the bus yo.

[Oobedoob S Benubi]

@Super-Fly Spider-Guy yeah I was gonna get it on Switch, I don't care much for trophies and portability is a big factor for me - already bought three other games that are on PS4 as well (Shovel Knight, Snake Pass, forma.8).

 

It helps that I generally enjoy 'retro bit graphic' games more if I don't have to play them on the huge television, but can play them on a small screen as well. Definitely helped ease me in to Shovel Knight, and I only played Snake Pass while on vacation but Snake Pass and forma.8 look polished enough to enjoy on a large screen as well.

[ConcealedFirearm]

On 8/31/2017 at 0:16 PM, StrickenBiged said:

 

If you haven't played one before, then I'd say wait for a sale before jumping in. Sonic fans revere the early games and their design which, IMO, were horrible, punishing, confused experiences.

 

I'm of the opinion that Sonic has never been good... and I'm curmudgeonly.

Hey, I think I hear a job opportunity over at IGN calling for you StrickenBiged.

Anyway, to OP. It's possible Sonic isn't your thing. But don't listen to this guy, the 2D Genesis Sonic games were the best Sonic games ever, and there's a reason it's back. Sonic Mania is sometimes referred to at the best Sonic game ever now. And while the Sonic series has had its ups and downs, that still means something.

Also, go watch videogamedunkey's "dunkview" of Sonic Mania. He sums up quite well that this is no game to scoff at.

[Oobedoob S Benubi]

Haven't bought the game yet but it's very possible I will do so today, I'm just about there.

 

On 3-9-2017 at 2:14 AM, ConcealedFirearm said:

Hey, I think I hear a job opportunity over at IGN calling for you StrickenBiged.

Anyway, to OP. It's possible Sonic isn't your thing. But don't listen to this guy, the 2D Genesis Sonic games were the best Sonic games ever, and there's a reason it's back. Sonic Mania is sometimes referred to at the best Sonic game ever now. And while the Sonic series has had its ups and downs, that still means something.

Also, go watch videogamedunkey's "dunkview" of Sonic Mania. He sums up quite well that this is no game to scoff at.

 

I do get where Stricken is coming from though with his comments on the old Sonic games (elaborated on in his second post and my response to it), though in the end I did enjoy Sonic & Knuckles myself. I usually think videogames should be evolving, and it's the main gripe I've had against Nintendo's stuff on the Wii U (being throwbacks instead of evolutions), but Sonic Mania being hailed as an exceptionally good throwback is what got my interest.

 

I'm not familiar with videogamedunkey so I googled it and watched that video. Sorry to say but it does not really get me interested in the game more than I already am, because it sounds less like a reviewer with good points and more like a fanboy.

Edited September 4, 2017 by BillyHorrible

[Oobedoob S Benubi]

So yeah, I just bought Sonic Mania. Thanks for all the opinions everyone!

[MosesRockefeller]

I'm late to the party, but I grabbed it a while back and haven't gotten past the 2nd level. 

 

It does seem to be a very good game, but Sonic just isn't my thing I guess. I much prefer Mario when it comes to classic platforming. I had a friend back in the 90's with a Genesis and Game Gear, and Sonic always seemed weird to me. My opinion hasn't really changed. 

[Oobedoob S Benubi]

On 04/09/2017 at 3:09 PM, MosesRockefeller said:

I'm late to the party, but I grabbed it a while back and haven't gotten past the 2nd level. 

 

It does seem to be a very good game, but Sonic just isn't my thing I guess. I much prefer Mario when it comes to classic platforming. I had a friend back in the 90's with a Genesis and Game Gear, and Sonic always seemed weird to me. My opinion hasn't really changed. 

 

I've gotten a bit farther into the game (I've finished the first three zones).

 

I get what you mean. I'm really liking Sonic Mania - more than my initial feelings were with Sonic & Knuckles or with Sonic Generations - but I don't get moved by it like how Mario, Shovel Knight and Specter Knight, Commander Video or others appeal to me. I like the visuals, music and general idea, but... Eh, to each their own. I certainly get how a fan of the early games could call this the best platformer of 2017.

[Dr_Shaneman]

It's a brilliant game, just like Sonic 3 & Knuckles. I loved all the 16-bit games so I naturally took to this one.

Only difficult part is getting gold medals but that doesn't deduct any value still. All the little additions like Tails carrying Sonic using only one controller are very nice indeed.

[ConcealedFirearm]

On 9/4/2017 at 11:59 AM, BillyHorrible said:

Haven't bought the game yet but it's very possible I will do so today, I'm just about there.

 

 

I do get where Stricken is coming from though with his comments on the old Sonic games (elaborated on in his second post and my response to it), though in the end I did enjoy Sonic & Knuckles myself. I usually think videogames should be evolving, and it's the main gripe I've had against Nintendo's stuff on the Wii U (being throwbacks instead of evolutions), but Sonic Mania being hailed as an exceptionally good throwback is what got my interest.

 

I'm not familiar with videogamedunkey so I googled it and watched that video. Sorry to say but it does not really get me interested in the game more than I already am, because it sounds less like a reviewer with good points and more like a fanboy.

 

There's nothing wrong with "evolving". But this idea that games absolutely have to is wrong. That's the problem Sonic Team faces, they are constantly putting all their efforts into evolving and always coming up with below average, average or slightly above average games at best. They are the embodiment of why evolving can be bad. It's not for everyone, it's not for everything. If you can make it work in your favor, sure. But if you can keep making the same kind of games (but still introduce new gameplay elements like Mania does, and does well) then why should you stop? I hope this never stops. It would be a sad day for Sonic fans everywhere.

I kinda see your point, dunkey clearly is a fan. You seem to dismiss that by just using a derogatory term like "fanboy". Maybe he is just a fan, and for good reason? And maybe he still manages to highlight what is good about Mania? It seems to me that he does. Most of all the video is entertaining to watch, which is his style. That doesn't hurt either.

[Oobedoob S Benubi]

1 hour ago, ConcealedFirearm said:

 

There's nothing wrong with "evolving". But this idea that games absolutely have to is wrong. That's the problem Sonic Team faces, they are constantly putting all their efforts into evolving and always coming up with below average, average or slightly above average games at best. They are the embodiment of why evolving can be bad. It's not for everyone, it's not for everything. If you can make it work in your favor, sure. But if you can keep making the same kind of games (but still introduce new gameplay elements like Mania does, and does well) then why should you stop? I hope this never stops. It would be a sad day for Sonic fans everywhere.

 

 

It's not wrong to say games should evolve; we're not still only watching black and white movies, and we've moved on from stop motion special effects. Sure, it's fun to do things "old school" every now and then but it shouldn't have to be the main course. Sure, a Sonic Mania or Shovel Knight is cool, and yeah I buy new Mario Kart gamew even though they're not mixing it up all that often, but they're not the only games I want.

 

One of the problems with Sonic Team seems to be that they can't decide whether to do an overhaul of the gameplay or stick to the classic, with several Sonic games trying to do both. Sonic Mania was the perfect excuse to do something completely new with Forces, yet it will be 2D sidescrolling for more than half of the game.

 

1 hour ago, ConcealedFirearm said:

I kinda see your point, dunkey clearly is a fan. You seem to dismiss that by just using a derogatory term like "fanboy". Maybe he is just a fan, and for good reason? And maybe he still manages to highlight what is good about Mania? It seems to me that he does. Most of all the video is entertaining to watch, which is his style. That doesn't hurt either.

 

To me, there's a difference between "fan" and "fanboy", with the fanboy being the one who blindly loves without being able to rationally tell me why. This is what I saw in the video, it was just gushing that it was greay without really explaining to me why I should think so too.

 

Though obviously, it could just be that either I'm missing something because I'm not familiar with this guy's style, or that this video is simply aimed at people who are already fans of the old Sonic games and can understand the subtext better.

 

Compare Zero Punctuation, he's clearly a fan of the Dark Souls series but can still rationally tell me what the pros and cons of each title are.

 

 

I've finished the first four zones now, by the way. I think it's safe to say that this is my favourite Sonic game, though that's not saying much sinch I've only finished Sonic & Knuckles and Generations. It's certainly a good throwback game.

[ConcealedFirearm]

I do see your point that dunkey isn't highlighting anything bad about Sonic Mania. But there *isn't* really anything inherently bad about the game. As a reviewer should you just try to hate on a part of a game just to sound like you're judging it fairly? The only things really bad about Mania is how the leaderboards on PS4 crash the game, and the PC version got Denuvo. So I guess there's that. But Dunkey probably didn't play the PS4 version and the PC version wasn't out yet when he released his review.

Zero Punctuation seems like a weird example though. He's like the last "reviewer" I take seriously. His videos are supposed to entertain you and are always forcing negativity to fuel his comedic angle.

[Oobedoob S Benubi]

2 hours ago, ConcealedFirearm said:

I do see your point that dunkey isn't highlighting anything bad about Sonic Mania. But there *isn't* really anything inherently bad about the game. As a reviewer should you just try to hate on a part of a game just to sound like you're judging it fairly? The only things really bad about Mania is how the leaderboards on PS4 crash the game, and the PC version got Denuvo. So I guess there's that. But Dunkey probably didn't play the PS4 version and the PC version wasn't out yet when he released his review.

 

 

I'm not saying that a reviewer should always say something negative about a game, I'm saying that whatever is said about a game should be backed up with examples and/or a real explanation. For instance, at one point Dunkey says:

 

"Mania has this enthralling sense of progression, each zone is magnificently brought to life with ultra detailed sprites"

 

Yet he never explains why he feels the sense of progression is enthralling, how each zone is magnificently brought to life... Though yeah he does show for a split second what detail goes into sprite animations, not that I would have thought that was the important part in that line.

 

I'm willing to accept that the video is just not for me because I'm not familiar with this reviewer's style and/or because it's more for people who have played a lot of Sonic games, though I feel like a reviewer should always assume his audience has not played anything in the game's franchise before when he's doing a review.

 

2 hours ago, ConcealedFirearm said:

Zero Punctuation seems like a weird example though. He's like the last "reviewer" I take seriously. His videos are supposed to entertain you and are always forcing negativity to fuel his comedic angle.

 

Ironically, Zero Punctuation is the only video reviewer I really follow and one of the bare few that I take seriously. Yeah, the videos are mainly bizarrely funny but it always shows if he actually enjoyed the game he reviews despite the flaws, and he always backs up his claims with examples so you're never wondering why exactly he states something, unlike how I felt when watching Dunkey's video.

[ConcealedFirearm]

On 9/9/2017 at 7:27 PM, Cubone said:

 

I'm not saying that a reviewer should always say something negative about a game, I'm saying that whatever is said about a game should be backed up with examples and/or a real explanation. For instance, at one point Dunkey says:

 

"Mania has this enthralling sense of progression, each zone is magnificently brought to life with ultra detailed sprites"

 

Yet he never explains why he feels the sense of progression is enthralling, how each zone is magnificently brought to life... Though yeah he does show for a split second what detail goes into sprite animations, not that I would have thought that was the important part in that line.

 

I'm willing to accept that the video is just not for me because I'm not familiar with this reviewer's style and/or because it's more for people who have played a lot of Sonic games, though I feel like a reviewer should always assume his audience has not played anything in the game's franchise before when he's doing a review.

 

 

Ironically, Zero Punctuation is the only video reviewer I really follow and one of the bare few that I take seriously. Yeah, the videos are mainly bizarrely funny but it always shows if he actually enjoyed the game he reviews despite the flaws, and he always backs up his claims with examples so you're never wondering why exactly he states something, unlike how I felt when watching Dunkey's video.

 

I have never once watched a ZP video in my life and not thought that he was exaggerating or just focusing his efforts being negative. I can't understand that you would look to his reviews for guidance. I'm now wondering if his videos aren't just entirely satiric and actually meant to be taken seriously. Sure I've heard him bring up some good points before but most of the time he just seems to talk negatively because he's doing a persona.

I suppose you're bringing more and more good arguments to the table here in regards to Dunkeys review. Having played Mania myself perhaps it was easy to oversee it. I think his videos vary in how well he explains his points. He's not really outright a reviewer anyway, he's an entertainer first, quite like ZP is actually, except Dunkey is a little more forthright about it by being blatantly silly.

[Oobedoob S Benubi]

9 hours ago, ConcealedFirearm said:

 

I have never once watched a ZP video in my life and not thought that he was exaggerating or just focusing his efforts being negative. I can't understand that you would look to his reviews for guidance. I'm now wondering if his videos aren't just entirely satiric and actually meant to be taken seriously. Sure I've heard him bring up some good points before but most of the time he just seems to talk negatively because he's doing a persona.

I suppose you're bringing more and more good arguments to the table here in regards to Dunkeys review. Having played Mania myself perhaps it was easy to oversee it. I think his videos vary in how well he explains his points. He's not really outright a reviewer anyway, he's an entertainer first, quite like ZP is actually, except Dunkey is a little more forthright about it by being blatantly silly.

 

Zero Punctuation is, in my eyes, a very honest game reviewing series. Yes, there's hyperbole, but it's not his opinions that are exaggerated, it's his insane analogies.

 

He discusses this in a few videos, by the way. When he actually enjoys a game, he'll admit to nitpicking because putting focus on the negative is his style and, as he said in his review for one of the Rocksteady Batman Arkham games, all that wasn't mentioned was alright because he is a 'praiser by exception'.

Spoiler

 

Basically, my opinion is that games get enough praise from reviewers who neglect to tell the downsides. I'm watching Zero Punctuation (because it's funny, but also) to hear about a game's flaws. I see Zero Punctuation as a gauntlet of sorts - if I still want the game after hearing about all the bad stuff Yahtzee's found, then the game is worth it for me.

 

Not that I blindly follow his every opinion, of course. I know for instance we don't see eye to eye on Nintendo, because he can't stand Nintendo basically remaking the same Mario and Zelda games every few years while I don't mind the repetitive nature of those series as they're fun and they're not the only thing I play. I do tend to listen to his legitimate complaints, but as with other reviewers I'm always questioning whether or not I would like or dislike something they talk about.

 

 

 

I've gotten to the final boss in Mania, by the way, but I didn't manage to beat him before getting a game over and I haven't gotten around to retry yet. Fun game though. I did see Zero Punctuation's review before buying it, and even though this was one of his mostly negative reviews I got enough info out of it (combined with gameplay videos and peer reviews) that I decided the game would be enjoyable enough for me.

 

[Dr_Shaneman]

The super fight wasn't the most difficult of the 2D games but it was tedious. More attacks that can easily knock rings out of you. Makes Super Sonic feel less super when a simple energy ball attack can hurt him. It used to take being sucked into a mech or a really big laser shot. Something that looked powerful enough to actually lose you rings.

It won't beat The Doomsday Zone that's for sure.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Dr_Shaneman

[ConcealedFirearm]

On 11/16/2017 at 8:32 PM, Cubone said:

Basically, my opinion is that games get enough praise from reviewers who neglect to tell the downsides. I'm watching Zero Punctuation (because it's funny, but also) to hear about a game's flaws. I see Zero Punctuation as a gauntlet of sorts - if I still want the game after hearing about all the bad stuff Yahtzee's found, then the game is worth it for me.

 

But everytime I've watched him I see him put a negative spin on just about anything, it's ridiculous. Things nobody cares about, even thinks about, or thinks positively about. I guess I get it though, maybe you're really trying to not regret purchasing a game/be frugal. If you still want a game after Yahtzee completely unreasonably tore it a new hole.. then it sure passed one hell of a test.

By the way in that review of his ZP already starts out by saying Sonic fans always say a new Sonic game is good at first.. I've experienced the opposite, from what I've seen sonic forces was immediately accepted as being mediocre (bad). So from my perspective he's already starting out with a false claim, perhaps just to be able to make his joke.

The time limit thing is something that more people complain about though. But this is only a problem for some slow/inexperienced players. If you have an inkling of what you're doing it should never be an issue. I only had it become a problem in one act for me because I didn't realize how to properly go about defeating a boss.

(this part is just admitting you either are bad at the game or are trying too hard to play it in a way it's not meant to be played, exploring)

 

He's right about the exploring. You can only explore a little bit in Sonic Mania if you want to find giants rings. It's something you're gonna have to accept about this game. It makes for pretty interesting replayability, because you can't just 100% explore levels right away (it's not designed to be, it's not that kind of game) you'll always be able to see areas you haven't seen before in new playthroughs (or god forbid one of you single playthrough people would touch time attack). I don't experience this as a negative thing at all. If anything games have too much backtracking and diddly daddling these days which gets tedious.

Then at the end I guess he's just saying the jump sound effect gets annoying after a while? After saying that Sonic does have a nice style and the ring drop mechanic is good, but saying it's papering over some cracks? I don't really see which cracks. He doesn't elaborate. Just says the jumping sfx gets annoying.. like he's his own non-gaming grandfather.

 

Overall I have to say this is one of his better reviews, it actually sounds like a review for the most part. A lot of people do actually feel that way about the timer and exploring. I don't think people understand the game entirely if they see it that way, but it represents peoples opinions a lot more than some other reviews I've seen in the past.
 

On 11/17/2017 at 1:58 PM, Dr_Shaneman said:

The super fight wasn't the most difficult of the 2D games but it was tedious. More attacks that can easily knock rings out of you. Makes Super Sonic feel less super when a simple energy ball attack can hurt him. It used to take being sucked into a mech or a really big laser shot. Something that looked powerful enough to actually lose you rings.

It won't beat The Doomsday Zone that's for sure.

 

I quite enjoyed it, and I could argue it does beat The Doomsday Zone but really that's not a discussion worth having. It just took 1 or 2 rematches with that final boss before I could appreciate him better and how to fight him. The first time did feel tedious. I had a similar experience with The Doomsday Zone by the way.

Edited November 26, 2017 by ConcealedFirearm

[Oobedoob S Benubi]

On 26/11/2017 at 10:27 AM, ConcealedFirearm said:

 

But everytime I've watched him I see him put a negative spin on just about anything, it's ridiculous. Things nobody cares about, even thinks about, or thinks positively about. I guess I get it though, maybe you're really trying to not regret purchasing a game/be frugal. If you still want a game after Yahtzee completely unreasonably tore it a new hole.. then it sure passed one hell of a test.

 

I think the beauty of Yahtzee is that he can get annoyed by a lot and expects perfection from a game. I've said it before (though in a different conversation I think) but if I want to hear about a game's good sides, then there's plenty of reviewers to pick. I watch Zero Punctuation because I want to hear about a game's flaws.

 

Of course, as said, I alwys look at his points while thinking about if I would actually consider it a flaw. His review from last week was about Assassin's Creed Origins and he didn't say anything good about it (if I recall correctly) but I still love the game; the points he mentions were either not important to me or I didn't consider them to be flaws.

 

That's always what to remember with Zero Punctuation, though it works for every reviewer; what they think makes a good game doesn't necessarily work for you.

 

On 26/11/2017 at 10:27 AM, ConcealedFirearm said:

 

By the way in that review of his ZP already starts out by saying Sonic fans always say a new Sonic game is good at first.. I've experienced the opposite, from what I've seen sonic forces was immediately accepted as being mediocre (bad). So from my perspective he's already starting out with a false claim, perhaps just to be able to make his joke.

 

I thought the point there was how when a new game was announced, Sonic fans claim it's a new beginning and the series will be saved, which certainly is how they talked about Forces at first.

 

On 26/11/2017 at 10:27 AM, ConcealedFirearm said:

The time limit thing is something that more people complain about though. But this is only a problem for some slow/inexperienced players. If you have an inkling of what you're doing it should never be an issue. I only had it become a problem in one act for me because I didn't realize how to properly go about defeating a boss.

(this part is just admitting you either are bad at the game or are trying too hard to play it in a way it's not meant to be played, exploring)

 

I got a few timeouts that I feel were undeserved. In particular the first level of the final zone was way too big to properly get through, with so many side routes and new gameplay stuff... Now I would consider myself somewhat of a platforming veteran.

 

On 26/11/2017 at 10:27 AM, ConcealedFirearm said:

 

He's right about the exploring. You can only explore a little bit in Sonic Mania if you want to find giants rings. It's something you're gonna have to accept about this game. It makes for pretty interesting replayability, because you can't just 100% explore levels right away (it's not designed to be, it's not that kind of game) you'll always be able to see areas you haven't seen before in new playthroughs (or god forbid one of you single playthrough people would touch time attack). I don't experience this as a negative thing at all. If anything games have too much backtracking and diddly daddling these days which gets tedious.

 

 

This is where opinions come into play. If I were you and were watching that video before buying the game, I'd realise that this flaw wasn't a flaw in my eyes. Personally, I think having a timer for the sake of having a timer isn't fun, even if it was in the originals, but I get it because they try to make Mania a retro successor so they kind of need to use it.

 

On 26/11/2017 at 10:27 AM, ConcealedFirearm said:

Then at the end I guess he's just saying the jump sound effect gets annoying after a while? After saying that Sonic does have a nice style and the ring drop mechanic is good, but saying it's papering over some cracks? I don't really see which cracks. He doesn't elaborate. Just says the jumping sfx gets annoying.. like he's his own non-gaming grandfather.

 

I didn't mind the jump effect myself.

 

The papering over the cracks was more about the limitations and flaws of platformers back in the day, a few of which he mentioned earlier (try finding a non-retro platformer that still uses timers outside of speedruns).

 

These things are why I decided to buy Mania at full price after listening to his review: his main points are about how games back in the day were flawed and with this retro game they're back in full Sonic Forces force, yet I like the old 16-bit generation and with what little I played of the Sonic games, I clearly preferred the old 2D iterations, so if I didn't mind those 'flaws' then it would probably be a game I'd enjoy.

 

On 26/11/2017 at 10:27 AM, ConcealedFirearm said:

 

Overall I have to say this is one of his better reviews, it actually sounds like a review for the most part. A lot of people do actually feel that way about the timer and exploring. I don't think people understand the game entirely if they see it that way, but it represents peoples opinions a lot more than some other reviews I've seen in the past.

 

Don't know which reviews you've seen earlier but I often think I've learned something about a game after watching his reviews. Though, as I stated before, I watch Zero Punctuation in large part simply because I think it's funny, and I often still watch reviews of games I'm not buying anyway.