afc-razor-84

Hamilton v Vettel mid season f1 battle who's gonna snatch the title.

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With Hamilton now leading the f1 standings is there any way back for Vettel or bottas. Let's here your comments on this fantastic battle.

For me I can only see Singapore and Brazil suiting Ferrari, but with both Hamiltons and Vettels engine doing so much mileage someone's has to blow.

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Why this topic is in the Battlefield 1 sub-forum I don't know, but I think Vettel will win, Hamilton is choke prone when the dispute is fierce. He lost 2007 and 2016 by his mistakes and almost lost 2008 in the last race. I don't see Mercedes being so much better than Ferrari.

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On 7 September 2017 at 4:14 AM, ElBolovo said:

Why this topic is in the Battlefield 1 sub-forum I don't know, but I think Vettel will win, Hamilton is choke prone when the dispute is fierce. He lost 2007 and 2016 by his mistakes and almost lost 2008 in the last race. I don't see Mercedes being so much better than Ferrari.

2007 was his rookie year and 2016 he had engine problems every other race, with tracks like USA Japan Mexico Brazil and abi dhabi all being power circuits, I highly doubt Vettel will win, Singapore maybe but not the others. I also think red bull are all over Ferrari, they have had some great races but to be honest its who's  engine will blow first, Vettel and Lewis both have done a lot of mileage on them engines. Either way I'm going Lewis, he's braking record after record every race. Vettel had he's 4 years of winning ways and still Lewis has better stats in every single aspect, 111 podiums, 59 wins 69 poles, most fasted laps ever, most points ever in f1 history. And more overtakes then anyone else. But Vettel will push him to his limits.

On 7 September 2017 at 4:14 AM, ElBolovo said:

Why this topic is in the Battlefield 1 sub-forum I don't know, but I think Vettel will win, Hamilton is choke prone when the dispute is fierce. He lost 2007 and 2016 by his mistakes and almost lost 2008 in the last race. I don't see Mercedes being so much better than Ferrari.

Also do u see Alonso staying in f1 or going of to the us for the indie series?

On 7 September 2017 at 4:14 AM, ElBolovo said:

Why this topic is in the Battlefield 1 sub-forum I don't know, but I think Vettel will win, Hamilton is choke prone when the dispute is fierce. He lost 2007 and 2016 by his mistakes and almost lost 2008 in the last race. I don't see Mercedes being so much better than Ferrari.

Also your right I don't know how this ended up in the bf topic, I'll change it.

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Just now, Bumperklever said:

But it's still not a WW battlefield :3

I know it's my mistake I'm gonna restart it,

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11 minutes ago, afc-razor-84 said:

I know it's my mistake I'm gonna restart it,

 

Went ahead and moved it ;) 

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On 9/10/2017 at 5:23 PM, afc-razor-84 said:

2007 was his rookie year and 2016 he had engine problems every other race, with tracks like USA Japan Mexico Brazil and abi dhabi all being power circuits, I highly doubt Vettel will win, Singapore maybe but not the others. I also think red bull are all over Ferrari, they have had some great races but to be honest its who's  engine will blow first, Vettel and Lewis both have done a lot of mileage on them engines. Either way I'm going Lewis, he's braking record after record every race. Vettel had he's 4 years of winning ways and still Lewis has better stats in every single aspect, 111 podiums, 59 wins 69 poles, most fasted laps ever, most points ever in f1 history. And more overtakes then anyone else. But Vettel will push him to his limits.

Also do u see Alonso staying in f1 or going of to the us for the indie series?

Also your right I don't know how this ended up in the bf topic, I'll change it.

 

I don't put so much importance in 2007 being his rookie year, he started very strong and started making amateur mistakes at the end, if it was the other way, started slow and started to do better in the last half of the season, I would understand. 2016 the problem was his competition, I consider Rosberg the worst champion in recent Formula 1 history, so he should have taken the title even with the mechanical failures. For comparison, look at the 2014 season where Rosberg was the guy who were having the mechanical problems, and 2015 when Hamilton humiliated Rosberg to see the difference in raw quality between the two. Another factor is that Hamilton REALLY is affected by the woman he is with, just look the times when he was with fighting with Nicole Scherzinger to see his performance dip. He is trying to score Anita, a brazilian singer without the best reputation, so I'm also taking it into account, no joke.

 

About the car, I agree that Mercedes is looking better in the latter half of the season, at least in the races (qualification is another story, Hamilton is good, but Vettel is not shabby in a fast lap either), but Vettel has and passive Räikkönen as team mate, and Hamilton has Bottas still with some fight in it. A no-pointer for Hamilton with a good race from Valtteri could but him back to the fight.

 

About Lewis stats, his stats were really good, but let's compare their years:

  • 2007 - Hamilton started with the one of the best cars on the grid, but had a frantic 4 ways battle for the title. Vettel only had half a season with bad car.
  • 2008 - Hamilton had a 2-way battle with Massa, when Vettel made miracles with a mid-tier car. Besides Maldonado's win in Barcelona, it's the most miraculous race win in the past 10 years.
  • 2009 - Hamilton started the year with a struggling car, but the end of the year the car really was close to the Brawn and Red Bull. Vettel had really his true good car, but now he made his rookie mistakes in the first part of the season, and had two retirements in last half of the season for mechanical failures. If the conjunction between driver and car be a little more reliable, he could have snatched the title from Button.
  • 2010 - Epic 4-way battle, with Button being the 5th party in the fray. Ferrari, Red Bull and McLaren had very comparable cars, but the only one that had 2 drivers on the race for the championship was Red Bull with Webber and Vettel
  • 2011 - Vettel was superior, Webber sucked that year and Red Bull was WAY better than the rest in this year. Hamilton got beaten badly by Button, even still, he won 3 times, if I remember correctly, we crashed with Massa six times in that season, it was a running joke here in Brazil.
  • 2012 - Vettel battled hard with Alonso with a similar car. Hamilton had a worst car, no doubt, but not a crappy one. Still, he took 4 wins.
  • 2013 - Vettel had the best car PERIOD.
  • 2014 - Hamilton had a superior car against a lame horse like Rosberg. Vettel had his worst year in F1 no doubt, losing hard to Ricciardo, but the car was not good.
  • 2015 - Hamilton had a superior car against a lame horse like Rosberg. Vettel in Ferrari had a decent car, but nowhere near as good as Mercedes.
  • 2016 - Hamilton lost to Rosberg because of his regularity. Vettel had a worst car than 2015, but still managed to score a win.

So, by my accounts, Hamilton 3 seasons a "best car with another in equal standing" (2007, 2008 and 2010) and 3 seasons with the best car without a doubt (2014 to 2016).

Vettel only had 2 seasons as a really dominating car (2011 and 2013), with 3 seasons being close fiths (2009, 2010 and 2012). 

So, in my opinion, Hamilton lost a hard fought battle in 2007 and 2010, won one in 2008, cruised in 2014 and 2015 and had a ridiculous lost in 2016.

Vettel won a hard fought battle in 2010 and 2012 and dominated 2011 and 2013, proving that he is more efficient than Hamilton, besides the fact that Hamilton can do some shiny races even when seasons are not going his way.

 

Besides this, stats like pole positions, points and wins are a little skewed. Look at the case of pole positions, when he overtook Senna, he needed 36 more tries to do so, but they both had raced in F1 for 10 years. In other words, Hamilton raced 36 times more than Senna in the same number of years. If you look at the stars of the past, Fangio by comparision, won 5 championships, but have entered only 53 races, taking 29 poles and 24 victories. If he had the same 201 GPS as Hamilton in that rate, he would have 110 POLES and 91 VICTORIES. Talking about points, I totally disregard this statistic, race wins now gives 25 points, a 5th place now gives the same 10 points that a victory should in the past. These stats are nice to see, but always take a grain of salt. I only consider valuable stats like the titles (and vices) and wins in some individual GP's (Monaco, Monza) when we are comparing cross-generation pilots.

 

Lastly, about Alonso, I think that his love for Indy is more marketing than the real deal. Senna applied the same strategy of declaring love for Indycar in 1992 trying to renegotiate his contract with Ron Dennis (see his test in Fittipaldi's Penske in Phoenix). I can see him being a regular presence in Indy 500 (until he wins), but running in the middle of nowhere in Iowa for a full season I don't think so. I always see him as an European driver, a nice motorhome in with a factory team in a endurance championship after F1. Just look at Barrichello, he always had his fame of a "true racer, give something with 4 wheels and a engine and see him go", but he bailed out of Indy in just one season because racing "was to rough". 

 

Aaaaaaand, I'm out, I really got carried away 😅

 

Edit: McLaren just let Honda go and signed with Renault, now I'm sure Alonso will stay with McLaren in the next year.

 

Edited by ElBolovo
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:hmm: Tough question here, but since I'm from a town around the town where Vettel grew up, I really hope he wins it. I think of that because Hamilton is more the guy who thinks he's a pretty cool customer when it somes down to race tracks which are highly on max speed. Vettel on the other hand has a car that's better on tracks like Monaco, Japan or Abu Dhabi - tight and difficult to overtake the others. If all comes together for the bad side towards Vettel and Hamilton, Bottas still has a chance to sneak the world championship away.

 

If Vettel wins it, he's getting into the big footsteps M. Schumacher left behind :lol:

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Vettel lucked into his titles at Red Bull in a Newey rocketship, along with special status from Marko. He was humiliated by Ricciardo in 2014.

Why do you think he wanted to keep Raikkonen at Ferrari? Vettel knows he will get exposed once again if Ricciardo or a young gun like Verstappen were to be his teammate.

 

Only Fernando & Lewis among current drivers, can be considered among the ATG.

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On 9/18/2017 at 1:54 AM, Alpha8134 said:

Only Fernando & Lewis among current drivers, can be considered among the ATG.

Except Lewis, unlike Alonso, has been able to compete due to his car alone. Skills not withstanding, that car he has is the reason he's winning so much. Take that away and he's good, not championship-winning good. Same way Vettel dominated due to his car a few years ago.

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