Scripts???

[UlvenFenrir]

I really dont like the whole idea of people using scripts to get trophies in ff9 now. How come this is even allowed on this site? You can come with all the arguements and try to justify it all you want but youre only fooling yourself. Youre still using a third party software which i thought was against the rules?

 

By the end of the day, people can do whatever they want, it doesnt affect me but its the principal of what is allowed and what isnt that bothers me. What is usually frowned upon is all of a sudden allowed somehow. Wtf?

 

when do we draw the line?

[SkyMason]

Scripts? On PS4? How does that work?

[UlvenFenrir]

They use remote play on pc using a third party software.

[MoneyShotxox]

And how can you tell who has used one and who has not there is no way of telling unless they tell you that they used one.

[SkyMason]

1 minute ago, UlvenFenrir said:

They use remote play on pc using a third party software.

Yeah just done a quick search, IMO it's definitely cheating, but unfortunately it doesn't look like there's a way to detect if anyone uses it, as it is just running a preset of inputs through remote play. It's more or less up to the discretion of the individual, but it definitely cheapens the experience. We could at the very least try to dissuade people from the discussing it on these forums, but it seems to be openly discussed (with the accompanying command inputs) on the other big trophy website.

Doesn't seem to really be anything we can do unfortunately.

[madbuk]

Just now, MoneyShotxox said:

And how can you tell who has used one and who has not there is no way of telling unless they tell you that they used one.

That shouldn't make it okay lol. Plenty of trophy hackers get away with it by making their timestamps look legit, does that mean that what they're doing is okay?

[UlvenFenrir]

1 minute ago, MoneyShotxox said:

And how can you tell who has used one and who has not there is no way of telling unless they tell you that they used one.

Like i said, i dont care what people do. Its the whole “oh now its allowed all of a sudden” thing that bugs me.

[MoneyShotxox]

1 minute ago, madbuk said:

That shouldn't make it okay lol. Plenty of trophy hackers get away with it by making their timestamps look legit, does that mean that what they're doing is okay?

I never said it was OK, I just ask how can you tell who used it.

[MMDE]

It's considered controller input, which has always been subject of scripting through things like rapid/turbo controllers etc. There's programmable controllers out there as well.

[SkyMason]

Just now, MMDE said:

It's considered controller input, which has always been subject of scripting through things like rapid/turbo controllers etc. There's programmable controllers out there as well.

Granted, you could see it like that on a technical side. But it's using a third party means to do something you normally could not achieve yourself. I consider that cheating. But that's mostly on principle, it's up to the player themselves whether or not they use it, as Sony doesn't seem to be capable to pick up on these kinds of inputs through remote play, nor do I think they would care.

[UlvenFenrir]

4 minutes ago, MMDE said:

It's considered controller input, which has always been subject of scripting through things like rapid/turbo controllers etc. There's programmable controllers out there as well.

Youre still downloading a software through which you get the trophy.

[MMDE]

1 minute ago, SkyMason said:

Granted, you could see it like that on a technical side. But it's using a third party means to do something you normally could not achieve yourself. I consider that cheating. But that's mostly on principle, it's up to the player themselves whether or not they use it, as Sony doesn't seem to be capable to pick up on these kinds of inputs through remote play, nor do I think they would care.

 

As I said, this is not something new that came with remote play. We've had programmable controllers for a long time, and there's never been much fuzz over it in the past. It's actually not that expensive to make your own programmable controller either.  I made one for PS3. It's not as super useful as one would think it is, because the controller would need to be synced with the game and there's bound to be ms delays growing over time.

Just now, UlvenFenrir said:

Youre still downloading a software through which you get the trophy.

 

What are you talking about? You don't need to download software to script input. Do you have an issue with rapid/turbo controllers? This is just more multipurpose use of the exact same stuff.

[UlvenFenrir]

6 minutes ago, MMDE said:

 

As I said, this is not something new that came with remote play. We've had programmable controllers for a long time, and there's never been much fuzz over it in the past. It's actually not that expensive to make your own programmable controller either.  I made one for PS3. It's not as super useful as one would think it is, because the controller would need to be synced with the game and there's bound to be ms delays growing over time.

 

What are you talking about? You don't need to download software to script input. Do you have an issue with rapid/turbo controllers? This is just more multipurpose use of the exact same stuff.

I meant with remote play, not the controllers. So you dont have to download anything for rapid/turbo controllers? But you do with remote play which is what everyone is doing.

 

how is that not breaking the rules?

Edited November 7, 2017 by UlvenFenrir

[SkyMason]

1 minute ago, MMDE said:

 

As I said, this is not something new that came with remote play. We've had programmable controllers for a long time, and there's never been much fuzz over it in the past. It's actually not that expensive to make your own programmable controller either.  I made one for PS3. It's not as super useful as one would think it is, because the controller would need to be synced with the game and there's bound to be ms delays growing over time.

That's not really what I was saying though. I know about rapid fire controllers, they've been around since the 80s. It's cheating because it's letting people do things they couldn't with their own skill, or because they aren't bothered to put the time in themselves. Whether or not you regard the challenge as fair is a moot point, because that's up to the individual. If you can't do something with only a normal controller in your hand, then you are cheating. It doesn't matter if people have been doing it for two days or two decades, it's gaining an unfair advantage over how it was intended to be beaten.

 

But all of this doesn't really matter as Sony don't have anything in place to stop people from taking advantage of scripts through remote play, so it is up to the individual on whether or not they want to do it, but it is in my personal opinion cheating, and we shouldn't condone it on these forums.

[MMDE]

 

 

@UlvenFenrir

 

http://exertiongameslab.org/projects/unojoy

 

Someone having fun making PS3 controllers. Instead of reading input from what is connected to the dev chip, you can simply make it perform input for you at specific times.

[UlvenFenrir]

7 minutes ago, MMDE said:

 

 

@UlvenFenrir

 

http://exertiongameslab.org/projects/unojoy

 

Someone having fun making PS3 controllers. Instead of reading input from what is connected to the dev chip, you can simply make it perform input for you at specific times.

??? Its the exact same thing. Youre using a tool/third party software.

[MMDE]

1 minute ago, UlvenFenrir said:

??? Its the exact same thing. Youre using a tool/third party software.

 

Yes, and as I said, this has been going on forever and often even promoted by console manufacturers like Nintendo. This is not something new and we have just let it slide or something.

Edited November 7, 2017 by MMDE

[RangyRV]

It's not cheating if we aren't messing with the system firmware.

[MMDE]

7 minutes ago, RangyRV said:

It's not cheating if we aren't messing with the system firmware.

 

Well, there's modding of the running software (the game) as well, or the save files, or the working memory etc.

[nyonmyan]

So, basically, it's cheating from general point of view, but not punishable cheating from PSNP pov.

[Stardroid]

It's definitely cheating from a "moral" standpoint. It's a cheapskate way to bypass a trophy requirement because they player is too lazy/undetermined/bad to completely it legitemately. In that sense, programmable controllers are cheating too. But hey, what can you do? Technically it's not cheating. Doesn't change the fact that the people who used it are the bane of the trophy community, though. Better to just let it go. A fantastically balanced trophy list for an FF game (but for Bloodlust) has been ruined by cheapskates, it happens. 

[German_Atheist]

Who gives a shit? It's just videogames, made to kill time.

[RangyRV]

11 minutes ago, Starlove- said:

It's definitely cheating from a "moral" standpoint. It's a cheapskate way to bypass a trophy requirement because they player is too lazy/undetermined/bad to completely it legitemately. In that sense, programmable controllers are cheating too. But hey, what can you do? Technically it's not cheating. Doesn't change the fact that the people who used it are the bane of the trophy community, though. Better to just let it go. A fantastically balanced trophy list for an FF game (but for Bloodlust) has been ruined by cheapskates, it happens. 

You know what's sad? People are complaining that other people are using scripts to cheat but nobody care about in game cheats. Max damage? Double speed to easily get Excalibur and Chocographs? How about Weapon bosses from Final Fantasy 7? If wasn't for these features most people wouldn't even get these platinums. But as you said, this is just a moral thing.

[SkyMason]

2 minutes ago, RangyRV said:

You know what's sad? People are complaining that other people are using scripts to cheat but nobody care about in game cheats. Max damage? Double speed to easily get Excalibur and Chocographs? How about Weapon bosses from Final Fantasy 7? If wasn't for these features most people wouldn't even get these platinums. But as you said, this is just a moral thing.

Like it or not (I don't personally), the dev put them in, so there isn't much of an argument on the side of people not playing something how it was intended to, as it is built into the game itself.

[MMDE]

5 minutes ago, SkyMason said:

Like it or not (I don't personally), the dev put them in, so there isn't much of an argument on the side of people not playing something how it was intended to, as it is built into the game itself.

 

The cheats were not intended by the people who made the game, just saying. This was stuff added years later, decided by different people than who made the games, and is mostly rooted in being embarrassed about the battle system or something. Pretty pathetic, when this is what they are known for, what quite literally made them and is still wanted by a large portion of their old fan base.

 

And yes, the cheats in this game pretty much ruins most of the gameplay, which is unfortunate.  Yes, I know it's up to people if they wanna use them or not, but you know people will do it just because they can and not experience the game, as it was actually intended. You also removed the challenge of the trophies when they are not disabled by the cheats. The cheats disabling the trophies would have been a nice balance, but nope... :\

Edited November 7, 2017 by MMDE