Scripts???

[SkyMason]

Just now, MMDE said:

 

The cheats were not intended by the people who made the game, just saying. This was stuff added years later, decided by different people than who made the games, and is mostly rooted in being embarrassed about the battle system or something. Pretty pathetic, when this is what they are known for, what quite literally made them and is still wanted by a large portion of their old fan base.

No they weren't intended to be in the original PS1 release, but they were intended for use in the PS4/PC re-release of the game. It sucks but that's just the reality of it.

[MMDE]

4 minutes ago, SkyMason said:

No they weren't intended to be in the original PS1 release, but they were intended for use in the PS4/PC re-release of the game. It sucks but that's just the reality of it.

 

I don't think this changes anything about what the game was intended to be like, and they could have found a decent balance by simply making it so the trophies gets disabled if you use the cheats, but they obviously didn't care to do this.

 

FF9 is one of my favorite games, but I haven't got this release yet. What I would get it for was the trophies, but they screwed that part up. I will still get the game sometime, but I will definitely wait for a massive price reduction.

Edited November 7, 2017 by MMDE

[BlackSquirrell1]

Just learned something today that I didn't know existed.  And I thought we were just playing games...

[Sir_Bee]

I think that this conversation is moot anyway?  Even if we were to decide that it is cheating, and we were to try to flag the trophies on this site, there is no way to prove that a script was used, as it would look exactly the same from a time stamp perspective as someone who was able to to it on their own.  So we can call it cheating all we want, nothing we can do about it, as the whole idea of innocent until proven guilty is still a thing...

[KingGuy420]

Why care? The only trophy that you should really care about is your own. Cause at the end of the day, you're the only one it means anything too anyways. 

 

Yeah, it sucks that cheaters aren't going to get caught for this game. It's not like this is the first game though, the Borderlands series has had a rampant undetectable hacking issues since damn near day 1. 

 

All in all, It's just an imaginary piece of data that means nothing. It's not worth getting all worked up and trying to organize a witch hunt over.

[MMDE]

21 minutes ago, KingGuy420 said:

Why care? The only trophy that you should really care about is your own. Cause at the end of the day, you're the only one it means anything too anyways. 

 

Yeah, it sucks that cheaters aren't going to get caught for this game. It's not like this is the first game though, the Borderlands series has had a rampant undetectable hacking issues since damn near day 1. 

 

All in all, It's just an imaginary piece of data that means nothing. It's not worth getting all worked up and trying to organize a witch hunt over.

 

I think he's reacting more to it being considered "okay", and not cheating.

[KingGuy420]

23 minutes ago, MMDE said:

 

I think he's reacting more to it being considered "okay", and not cheating.

 

Is anybody considering it okay? Or are they just brushing it off as a "nothing we can do" type of situation?

[MMDE]

19 minutes ago, KingGuy420 said:

 

Is anybody considering it okay? Or are they just brushing it off as a "nothing we can do" type of situation?

 

Yes, many consider it okay.

[KingGuy420]

1 hour ago, MMDE said:

 

Yes, many consider it okay.

 

Let me repharse that.... Is anybody that's not doing it considering it okay? Lol. Like I said, people that use Willowtree and GiB on Borderlands also think that it's OK when it's not. It's not like this is a new concept. Why focus on this one and not all of them?

[MMDE]

4 minutes ago, KingGuy420 said:

 

Let me repharse that.... Is anybody that's not doing it considering it okay? Lol. Like I said, people that use Willowtree and GiB on Borderlands also think that it's OK when it's not. It's not like this is a new concept. Why focus on this one and not all of them?

 

I already argued the difference, so maybe read the thread?

[KingGuy420]

11 minutes ago, MMDE said:

 

I already argued the difference, so maybe read the thread?

 

I did read the thread. I was just trying to make my "why care about something so trivial" point. I didn't come in to discuss the merits of turbo controllers.

 

It's soooo trivial. I mean, who cares how someone else got their trophies? Trophies are meant for personal accomplishment, so the only trophies you should care about are your own. Someone cheesing a trophy takes nothing away from yours. The only thing it takes away is robbing that person of the satisfaction of getting it themselves. People put way to much importance on fictional awards and the rarity of them.

[MMDE]

6 minutes ago, KingGuy420 said:

 

I did read the thread. I was just trying to make my "why care about something so trivial" point. I didn't come in to discuss the merits of turbo controllers.

 

It's soooo trivial. I mean, who cares how someone else got their trophies? Trophies are meant for personal accomplishment, so the only trophies you should care about are your own. Someone cheesing a trophy takes nothing away from yours. The only thing it takes away is robbing that person of the satisfaction of getting it themselves. People put way to much importance on fictional awards and the rarity of them.

 

 

2 hours ago, KingGuy420 said:

Yeah, it sucks that cheaters aren't going to get caught for this game. It's not like this is the first game though, the Borderlands series has had a rampant undetectable hacking issues since damn near day 1. 

 

 

[Lance_87]

*sigh* why all this crap lol?

[KingGuy420]

14 minutes ago, MMDE said:

 

 

 

 

 

I said that for 2 reasons.

 

1. To further my "who cares" point. This isn't something new and no one cared before, why start now. Never hurts to have 2 "who cares" points.

 

2. Because I do know people who care about that stuff, and just because I'm not one of them doesn't mean it's wrong to be empathetic towards them.

 

Sorry for the confusion. I forgot that if you don't explain every tiny detail of your comments on message boards people will twist your words.

[UlvenFenrir]

Ill say it again because apparently some misunderstood the whole point. I dont care what people do with their trophies, what i DO care about is why something that is USUALLY frowned upon suddenly is considered “okay” to do. Theres a difference. I didnt make the rules, im just wondering why its okay to all of a sudden to break them.

 

on pst.org using software outside of the game is breaking the rules but yet here we are. Thats my whole point. I dont care about anyones trophies except for my own.

 

i also dont care about turbo controllers. You dont setup a software to use them do you? But you do in this case with remote play.

21 minutes ago, KingGuy420 said:

 

I said that for 2 reasons.

 

1. To further my "who cares" point. This isn't something new and no one cared before, why start now. Never hurts to have 2 "who cares" points.

 

2. Because I do know people who care about that stuff, and just because I'm not one of them doesn't mean it's wrong to be empathetic towards them.

 

Sorry for the confusion. I forgot that if you don't explain every tiny detail of your comments on message boards people will twist your words.

It isnt something new? Then name one other instance where people made scripts to give them a trophy.

[Sir_Bee]

13 minutes ago, UlvenFenrir said:

Ill say it again because apparently some misunderstood the whole point. I dont care what people do with their trophies, what i DO care about is why something that is USUALLY frowned upon suddenly is considered “okay” to do. Theres a difference. I didnt make the rules, im just wondering why its okay to all of a sudden to break them.

 

on pst.org using software outside of the game is breaking the rules but yet here we are. Thats my whole point. I dont care about anyones trophies except for my own.

 

i also dont care about turbo controllers. You dont setup a software to use them do you? But you do in this case with remote play.

It isnt something new? Then name one other instance where people made scripts to give them a trophy.

 

Ok, it is now breaking the rules.  What are you going to do about it?  How can you prove that anyone did it?  There is no method with which to prove any accusation you make, and therefor there is no consequence for anyone who breaks this rule.  We are back to the same place we were before this conversation happened.

[UlvenFenrir]

29 minutes ago, Sir_Bee said:

 

Ok, it is now breaking the rules.  What are you going to do about it?  How can you prove that anyone did it?  There is no method with which to prove any accusation you make, and therefor there is no consequence for anyone who breaks this rule.  We are back to the same place we were before this conversation happened.

Im making accusations? lolokay. The thread on pst.org says otherwise.

 

you seem to think i care whether or not people is using the script. Look, im gonna type it s l o w l y out for you.

 

im trying to understand why a rule that has been made many moons ago, suddenly is violated by a bunch of peoplr who are trying to justify their reasoning behind using the script that its totally okay when said rule is frowned upon. I mean if its really not an issue, then why have any rules to begin with? Just because you cant prove anything, doesnt mean its right to do.

[Sir_Bee]

4 minutes ago, UlvenFenrir said:

Im making accusations? lolokay. The thread on pst.org says otherwise.

 

you seem to think i care whether or not people is using the script. Look, im gonna type it s l o w l y out for you.

 

im trying to understand why a rule that has been made many moons ago, suddenly is violated by a bunch of peoplr who are trying to justify their reasoning behind using the script that its totally okay when said rule is frowned upon. I mean if its really not an issue, then why have any rules to begin with? Just because you cant prove anything, doesnt mean its right to do.

 

I think you aren't understanding what I am saying, because you are talking to me like an asshole when I am on your side.

 

I am asking a question.  We have decided that it is against the rules, and that it is not ok to do.  Where do we go from there?  How can you decide who has cheated and who has not?  Do you have a method to distinguish the two that is reliable?  If you do, that would be what you should lead with.  If you don't we are no better off.  I never once said it was ok, in fact I agreed that it was cheating.  My point is that there is nothing we can do to stop it...

 

This has nothing to with you caring about anything at all.  And yes, you (the royal you, as in anyone) would have to make an accusation of someone cheating for anything to happen in the given system.  And since there is no method currently to prove said accusation, we are at a standstill.  Some players are breaking a rule, and we are powerless to do anything about it because we live in a world where you are innocent until you are proven guilty.  So please, find a way to prove that a script was used, and then we can come back to this conversation, until then, what is the point?

[UlvenFenrir]

7 minutes ago, Sir_Bee said:

 

I think you aren't understanding what I am saying, because you are talking to me like an asshole when I am on your side.

 

I am asking a question.  We have decided that it is against the rules, and that it is not ok to do.  Where do we go from there?  How can you decide who has cheated and who has not?  Do you have a method to distinguish the two that is reliable?  If you do, that would be what you should lead with.  If you don't we are no better off.  I never once said it was ok, in fact I agreed that it was cheating.  My point is that there is nothing we can do to stop it...

 

This has nothing to with you caring about anything at all.  And yes, you (the royal you, as in anyone) would have to make an accusation of someone cheating for anything to happen in the given system.  And since there is no method currently to prove said accusation, we are at a standstill.  Some players are breaking a rule, and we are powerless to do anything about it because we live in a world where you are innocent until you are proven guilty.  So please, find a way to prove that a script was used, and then we can come back to this conversation, until then, what is the point?

I agree with you on several points. There is no way to know if people used the script or not, fair enough. And no, nothing anyone can do about it.

 

I was just trying to understand why people try to justify it and why a thread dedicated to the script is even allowed to be open. The rule mustve vanished out of thin air. I apologise if i was talking to you that way, the meaning behind a comment isnt always easy to interpret.

 

anyway ive said what was on my chest about the whole thing.

[thegirlruka]

1 hour ago, UlvenFenrir said:

It isnt something new? Then name one other instance where people made scripts to give them a trophy.

 

[UlvenFenrir]

4 minutes ago, kuuhaku said:

 

All the way back last year... damn. Okay so its not new then. Oh well

[Dav9834]

Clearly many don't know electrical engineering, the only difference between a turbo controller with macro support, and a computer with a small script, is a GUI. 

 

Different means of programming, same thing. 

 

I think this thread is toxic as it seems to just want people to be pissed off, without substance. This thread is leading nowhere. 

[SkyMason]

On 11/7/2017 at 9:27 PM, Dav9834 said:

Clearly many don't know electrical engineering, the only difference between a turbo controller with macro support, and a computer with a small script, is a GUI. 

 

Different means of programming, same thing. 

 

I think this thread is toxic as it seems to just want people to be pissed off, without substance. This thread is leading nowhere. 

The issue was not people conflating Turbo controllers and scripts running on computers, it's that people are gaining advantages over what was intended, and whether or not we should consider that cheating, and whether or not we should tolerate discussing/promoting that on these forums.

[ZombieLover84]

This thread is bullshit because the people are complaining about something that not only isn't new, but isn't even close to save hacking or time stamping trophies.

 

1. The reason save hacking as well as custom firmware and trophy hacking is illegal is for many reasons, but mostly because it is against the ToS with Sony. Obviously Custom Firmware to be able to give yourself any trophy you want and time stamp it is leagues illegal, but so is taking someone else's save file and using a program to change it's ownership actually changes files that end up on the Playstation Systems.

 

This script? Well let's go over the things that have been okay getting trophies and compare, methods on this and every other trophy and achievement website.

 

1. Using a rubber band to hold a button or direction down. Usually employed to earn some type of in game credit towards an achievement (like in a racing game, driving a certain amount of mileage) while not actively doing it yourself. It's even deployed overnight in some cases depending on the amount needed to grind to obtain the trophy.

 

2. A turbo controller. Third party licensed controller's that allow you to repeat a button press over and over, similar in nature to #1. A good example is in Warhammer 40k Space Marine on PS3 or Insect Armageddon. Warhammer had a trophy for 40,000 kills and the fastest and most recommended method is using a turbo controller to farm kills at a certain spot in single player, probably leaving your system on overnight.

 

3. Handing your controller to a real life buddy to earn you a trophy.

 

4. Using Shareplay to earn someone a trophy.

 

5. Boosting a trophy by gathering an online group to perform a specific task that is either hard to do without a full dedicated group, or saves time to get a trophy (multiplayer exp or kill farming).

 

6. Using a trophy guide. To be fair, you are technically using something outside of what the game provided to give yourself an easier advantage or time saving method to obtain trophies you would otherwise have to discover on your own. Not every trophy by a longshot is straight forward. A good example is Call of Duty Zombie Easter Egg trophies.

 

7. Same technically applies to buying a strategy guide.

 

There's more but that's probably enough.

 

So what about this script?

 

Well, it doesn't manipulate files on either the PS4 or the Remote Play App, and there are no rules for earning trophies using remote play.

 

What it does do is become your controller. Like a turbo controller or controller with macros, you are inputting what buttons you want the script to press and when. While it is, in this case, an automated progress, the simple fact is the only thing happening when you run the script is that it's pressing the "X" button for you automated, just like a turbo controller. It isn't sending anything different then a connected Dualshock 4 Controller. It isn't changing any files. It doesn't change anything about the way the Minigame is played nor does it change the conditions to earn said trophy. In fact, the trophy description doesn't explicitly say how you should Jump Rope 1000 times, just that that's the unlock condition, which you also are not changing.

 

That's why it's not illegal on any trophy hunting website or leaderboard I have seen. Because if you outlaw one, you are going to have to outlaw all the other things people have come up with like I mentioned. And since everyone had thier own opinion on what constitutes "cheating" for a trophy, this isn't going away. Someone could think having a buddy get you a trophy should be disallowed. Most of you probably wouldn't even bat an eyelash at that proposition. So just because you don't understand what a script is and what it does and doesn't do, doesn't make it anymore "cheating" then ask the other examples I gave.

[SkyMason]

4 minutes ago, ZombieLover84 said:

This thread is bullshit because the people are complaining about something that not only isn't new, but isn't even close to save hacking or time stamping trophies.

 

1. The reason save hacking as well as custom firmware and trophy hacking is illegal is for many reasons, but mostly because it is against the ToS with Sony. Obviously Custom Firmware to be able to give yourself any trophy you want and time stamp it is leagues illegal, but so is taking someone else's save file and using a program to change it's ownership actually changes files that end up on the Playstation Systems.

 

This script? Well let's go over the things that have been okay getting trophies and compare, methods on this and every other trophy and achievement website.

 

1. Using a rubber band to hold a button or direction down. Usually employed to earn some type of in game credit towards an achievement (like in a racing game, driving a certain amount of mileage) while not actively doing it yourself. It's even deployed overnight in some cases depending on the amount needed to grind to obtain the trophy.

 

2. A turbo controller. Third party licensed controller's that allow you to repeat a button press over and over, similar in nature to #1. A good example is in Warhammer 40k Space Marine on PS3 or Insect Armageddon. Warhammer had a trophy for 40,000 kills and the fastest and most recommended method is using a turbo controller to farm kills at a certain spot in single player, probably leaving your system on overnight.

 

3. Handing your controller to a real life buddy to earn you a trophy.

 

4. Using Shareplay to earn someone a trophy.

 

5. Boosting a trophy by gathering an online group to perform a specific task that is either hard to do without a full dedicated group, or saves time to get a trophy (multiplayer exp or kill farming).

 

6. Using a trophy guide. To be fair, you are technically using something outside of what the game provided to give yourself an easier advantage or time saving method to obtain trophies you would otherwise have to discover on your own. Not every trophy by a longshot is straight forward. A good example is Call of Duty Zombie Easter Egg trophies.

 

7. Same technically applies to buying a strategy guide.

 

There's more but that's probably enough.

 

So what about this script?

 

Well, it doesn't manipulate files on either the PS4 or the Remote Play App, and there are no rules for earning trophies using remote play.

 

What it does do is become your controller. Like a turbo controller or controller with macros, you are inputting what buttons you want the script to press and when. While it is, in this case, an automated progress, the simple fact is the only thing happening when you run the script is that it's pressing the "X" button for you automated, just like a turbo controller. It isn't sending anything different then a connected Dualshock 4 Controller. It isn't changing any files. It doesn't change anything about the way the Minigame is played nor does it change the conditions to earn said trophy. In fact, the trophy description doesn't explicitly say how you should Jump Rope 1000 times, just that that's the unlock condition, which you also are not changing.

 

That's why it's not illegal on any trophy hunting website or leaderboard I have seen. Because if you outlaw one, you are going to have to outlaw all the other things people have come up with like I mentioned. And since everyone had thier own opinion on what constitutes "cheating" for a trophy, this isn't going away. Someone could think having a buddy get you a trophy should be disallowed. Most of you probably wouldn't even bat an eyelash at that proposition. So just because you don't understand what a script is and what it does and doesn't do, doesn't make it anymore "cheating" then ask the other examples I gave.

This thread has already had its day, and I don't know why you felt the need to bring this issue back up.

It's not against Sony's TOS, so there isn't much else to say about it. Some people just thought it was not something we should condone on this kind of site, because it is - to some of us - cheating. Not cheating in the sense that Sony explicitly said so, but more against the spirit of what trophies/achievements are for. There is, IMO, no sense of accomplishment if you have to use a third party tool to get the desired effect. Nothing is going to stop people using scripts if they don't want to grind/git gud, so that's up to the individual. But there was a legitimate argument as to whether we should condone/promote that kind of thing on this site. No real consensus from the community on that one, so people are free to do what they want I suppose. I really don't think there's much else to say - this was done with 2 months ago at this point.