Suggestion: Sort missing timestamp by time added on PSNP

[OJ9999vr]

I've heard about milestones being ruined by missing timestamps, this happened to me recently when i thought my trophies was synced for welcome park. I then went to restore the system (to change account) and i'm now stuck with them.

 

My suggestion is to sort them after previous earned trophy on this site, instead of next to the first earned.

It would look of in the list, but atleast it would be in sort of the right order. Maybe it could be marked as earned between (previous trophy with timestamp-newest trophy with timestamp)

It would be a lot easier with existing members because of previous data, but it might also be possible with new members too.

Edited November 16, 2017 by OJ9999vr

[fisty123]

I know Sly was working on something to fix missing timestamps but I have not come across any updates for a while so there might have been an issue somewhere.

My milestones where ruined a few years back due to a single missing timestamp stroyline trophy when I brought a new Vita and even though I synced the new vita before playing it the sync did not go though due to a network error which resulted in my first trophy on the this Vita a missing timestamp.

[OJ9999vr]

15 hours ago, fisty123 said:

I know Sly was working on something to fix missing timestamps but I have not come across any updates for a while so there might have been an issue somewhere.

My milestones where ruined a few years back due to a single missing timestamp stroyline trophy when I brought a new Vita and even though I synced the new vita before playing it the sync did not go though due to a network error which resulted in my first trophy on the this Vita a missing timestamp.

 

Must be annoying them ruing because of a single trophy.

 

Also @Sly Ripper and @BlindMango do you think this could be possible?

I'm not sure how much work this would be with coding, as i have no experience myself.

[B1rvine]

+10000

 

I'd prefer custom milestones though, and have them work like the trophy cabinet.  Perhaps the number of milestones one could add would be based on number of trophies earned or something.  

 

 

Why? There's too many issues missing time stamps cause with milestones, and the solution for one person doesn't fix someone else's . Or the fix itself will fix one person's and break someone else's at the same time.

 

I dont see how anything other than custom milestones will ever let me show my first trophy, (which is a missing time stamp)

 

 

[OJ9999vr]

1 hour ago, B1rvine said:

+10000

 

I'd prefer custom milestones though, and have them work like the trophy cabinet.  Perhaps the number of milestones one could add would be based on number of trophies earned or something.  

 

 

Why? There's too many issues missing time stamps cause with milestones, and the solution for one person doesn't fix someone else's . Or the fix itself will fix one person's and break someone else's at the same time.

 

I dont see how anything other than custom milestones will ever let me show my first trophy, (which is a missing time stamp)

 

 

 

True, maybe adding tags to the custom trophy cabinet could be a better idea?

[Cassylvania]

Makes sense to me. If you have, say, 800 trophies when an update takes place, then you earn 5 more trophies but they have missing time stamps, why not randomly assign them to 801-805 instead of 1-5? I think that would look a lot less ugly than shifting every single trophy you've ever earned. From a technical standpoint, I don't know how easy that would be to implement, but the system should at least know those new trophies had to be earned sometime after the last update, even without a time stamp.

 

Custom milestones is something that really should exist anyway. I don't understand why everybody needs the same milestones.

[MMDE]

Not sure how hard it should be to treat the no timestamps as the 0 unix timestamp that it is when sorting the order?  

4 hours ago, B1rvine said:

+10000

 

I'd prefer custom milestones though, and have them work like the trophy cabinet.  Perhaps the number of milestones one could add would be based on number of trophies earned or something.  

 

 

Why? There's too many issues missing time stamps cause with milestones, and the solution for one person doesn't fix someone else's . Or the fix itself will fix one person's and break someone else's at the same time.

 

I dont see how anything other than custom milestones will ever let me show my first trophy, (which is a missing time stamp)

 

 

 

Does it actually show missing timestamp trophies as the first earned trophy? Thought maybe it was changed to first earned non-missing timestamp trophy, but that like the 1000th one includes the missing timestamps ones.  

[B1rvine]

1 hour ago, MMDE said:

Not sure how hard it should be to treat the no timestamps as the 0 unix timestamp that it is when sorting the order?  

 

Does it actually show missing timestamp trophies as the first earned trophy? Thought maybe it was changed to first earned non-missing timestamp trophy, but that like the 1000th one includes the missing timestamps ones.  

 

My first actual trophy was "The Longest Night" from Resident Evil 6.  The site skips over all of my missing trophies and instead says "Rescue the hostages" is my first.  Sly intentionally made it this way, because it fixed the people that accidentally got a missing timestamp after hunting several years.  The previous timestamp system automatically showed missing timestamps as someone's first trophy (incorrectly).  So, while that fix corrected their lists, it caused mine to show inaccurately.

 

Edited November 18, 2017 by B1rvine

[OJ9999vr]

20 hours ago, Cassylvania said:

Makes sense to me. If you have, say, 800 trophies when an update takes place, then you earn 5 more trophies but they have missing time stamps, why not randomly assign them to 801-805 instead of 1-5? I think that would look a lot less ugly than shifting every single trophy you've ever earned. From a technical standpoint, I don't know how easy that would be to implement, but the system should at least know those new trophies had to be earned sometime after the last update, even without a time stamp.

 

Custom milestones is something that really should exist anyway. I don't understand why everybody needs the same milestones.

 

?Pretty much what i meant, but i'm not the best putting it into words.

[Se7en]

20 hours ago, MMDE said:

Not sure how hard it should be to treat the no timestamps as the 0 unix timestamp that it is when sorting the order?  

 

19 hours ago, B1rvine said:

My first actual trophy was "The Longest Night" from Resident Evil 6.  The site skips over all of my missing trophies and instead says "Rescue the hostages" is my first.  Sly intentionally made it this way, because it fixed the people that accidentally got a missing timestamp after hunting several years.  The previous timestamp system automatically showed missing timestamps as someone's first trophy (incorrectly).  So, while that fix corrected their lists, it caused mine to show inaccurately.

 

Allowing users to assign index number to their trophies with missing timestamps should fix any kind of problem those trophies might cause. That way everyone can set their missing timestamp trophies as #1-10, or #2-5, or #801-805 or whatever they want and have trophies in order.

[MMDE]

20 minutes ago, Se7en said:

 

 

Allowing users to assign index number to their trophies with missing timestamps should fix any kind of problem those trophies might cause. That way everyone can set their missing timestamp trophies as #1-10, or #2-5, or #801-805 or whatever they want and have trophies in order.

 

It's a nice idea, but I'm trying to imagine how that would be done on a technical level. I can only imagine it not being that easy to do efficiently and without changing a lot of code and database structure etc.

[Se7en]

20 hours ago, MMDE said:

It's a nice idea, but I'm trying to imagine how that would be done on a technical level. I can only imagine it not being that easy to do efficiently and without changing a lot of code and database structure etc.

 

Probable solution I can imagine is to introduce some kind of PSNP internal timestamp for those trophies, which should be 1 to 10 seconds greater than the previous trophy (or lesser than the next one) with known regular timestamp or one with missing timestamp too, that was set as the previous/next by user themself. Use of such internal timestamps would help to sort trophy log and individual game lists in correct order and also fix trophy milestones and level up trophies. At the same time these pseudo-timestamps shouldn’t be taken into account for different time-based stats like amount of trophies by specific hour, day, month, etc. But I’m not an expert in databases by any means, so I can’t say for sure if this scenario is feasible and efficient at all.

[Kittet3]

So how would this work for someone whose first synch to the site is a bunch of missing timestamps and some with dates? Would the dates be treated as the first ones gotten and the missing afterward?

 

For example, I get a PS3, get 20 trophies, synch it online and make an account, get 20 more trophies. Then synch with this site. Then the missing timestamp ones are technically first, but would the site see that?

 

Equal example: I get a PS3 and Vita. Get 20 trophies on PS3 online, get 5 trophies on the vita offline, and then get 5 trophies on the vita online. Would the missing timestamps know what system it's on and go in front of the ones I got on that system?

 

Another Equal Example: What if I got two PS3s, one upstairs and downstairs. Upstairs one is synched online and to PSNP, downstairs isn't. One day I synch downstairs all up. Would all those trophies now go behind or in front of the other ones?

 

 

This seems to fix people that get a new system and accidentally get a missing timestamp, but I don't think it works well for people first synching with a mixture of missing timestamps and non-missing timestamps. 

 

Off topic, but are missing timestamp trophies calculated in the trophies per day stat? That seems misleading if they are.

[MMDE]

41 minutes ago, Se7en said:

 

Probable solution I can imagine is to introduce some kind of PSNP internal timestamp for those trophies, which should be 1 to 10 seconds greater than the previous trophy (or lesser than the next one) with known regular timestamp or one with missing timestamp too, that was set as the previous/next by user themself. Use of such internal timestamps would help to sort trophy log and individual game lists in correct order and also fix trophy milestones and level up trophies. At the same time these pseudo-timestamps shouldn’t be taken into account for different time-based stats like amount of trophies by specific hour, day, month, etc. But I’m not an expert in databases by any means, so I can’t say for sure if this scenario is feasible and efficient at all.

 

It's not entirely how it works I think. It's all dynamic, and it would have to be updated if you sync trophies out of order etc. Really just a complete mess. How I think it currently works is just some kind of query (SQL I presume) where you order the result by date etc.

 

Besides, people would get missing timestamps on purpose, so they could change milestones and whatnot.

Edited November 19, 2017 by MMDE

[Se7en]

56 minutes ago, Kittet3 said:

This seems to fix people that get a new system and accidentally get a missing timestamp, but I don't think it works well for people first synching with a mixture of missing timestamps and non-missing timestamps.

That’s why I suggested allowing users to customize manually index number of their trophies with missing timestamps. That should solve any potential situation.

 

56 minutes ago, Kittet3 said:

Off topic, but are missing timestamp trophies calculated in the trophies per day stat? That seems misleading if they are.

They don’t.

 

48 minutes ago, MMDE said:

It's not entirely how it works I think. It's all dynamic, and it would have to be updated if you sync trophies out of order etc. Really just a complete mess. How I think it currently works is just some kind of query (SQL I presume) where you order the result by date etc.

Well, that is what proposed internal PSNP timestamp for. Currently missing timestamp trophies return 0 from database and sorting all the results has to be adjusted keeping that in mind. Return instead some pseudo-timestamp and voila -- we’ve got data which helps placing every trophy in chronologically correct order.

 

48 minutes ago, MMDE said:

Besides, people would get missing timestamps on purpose, so they could change milestones and whatnot.

And why should it bother anyone else how others arrange their stats? Currently people plan ahead their milestones and whatnot, so what?

Besides, missing timestamps will still be missing. So player won’t be included in fastest platinum/100% leaderboards for that game and potentially can be flagged, if those are online-only trophies and normally cannot be earned without timestamps.

 

Edited November 19, 2017 by Se7en

[MMDE]

I don't think you fully understand what I mean. I'm talking about the technical difficulties about doing this efficiently, without it wasting a lot of resources of the servers. Furthermore, I pointed out practical issues with it, which I honestly don't think you addressed. The problem with it is, it becomes a total mess, both client and server side.

Edited November 19, 2017 by MMDE

[Kittet3]

Here's a similar thread mirroring these suggestions: 

Manually dating missing timestamps may cause more difficulties.

 

If the system just lets me pick which trophies are for my milestones, I could pick my favorites, which kinda takes out the fun for people that go through a lot of work planning their milestones and is also why we have a trophy cabinet. And that means I could pick ALL my milestones since PSNP doesn't know if my missing trophies are from 2008 or 2017, and at that point do they really mean anything anymore? At that point, we should just take away milestones and get a larger cabinet.

 

You would also have to mark that those milestones were manually added or else you'll get a poor user experience of "how was his 500 trophy from a 2017 game when his 1000 was from 2006?" issues.

[OJ9999vr]

12 hours ago, Kittet3 said:

Here's a similar thread mirroring these suggestions: 

Manually dating missing timestamps may cause more difficulties.

 

If the system just lets me pick which trophies are for my milestones, I could pick my favorites, which kinda takes out the fun for people that go through a lot of work planning their milestones and is also why we have a trophy cabinet. And that means I could pick ALL my milestones since PSNP doesn't know if my missing trophies are from 2008 or 2017, and at that point do they really mean anything anymore? At that point, we should just take away milestones and get a larger cabinet.

 

You would also have to mark that those milestones were manually added or else you'll get a poor user experience of "how was his 500 trophy from a 2017 game when his 1000 was from 2006?" issues.

 

That's the problem, and the reason why i suggest them to be added in "real time" (time first added on this site). But again i don't know what goes into such a process.

[Se7en]

19 hours ago, Kittet3 said:

If the system just lets me pick which trophies are for my milestones, I could pick my favorites, which kinda takes out the fun for people that go through a lot of work planning their milestones and is also why we have a trophy cabinet. And that means I could pick ALL my milestones

 

Yes, you are right. Someone like you with over a thousand trophies without timestamps to pick from could have filled all the existing milestones however they like and then profile viewers might find it confusing  But how does anyone deliberately skewing their own milestones impact other users in a negative way? Would it really affect me? Or MMDE? Or anybody else on this site, who does care about their personal milestones in the first place? Doubt it. Currently it is Sly’s job to take out the fun for people who planned their 25th platinum and later found out it was gone from milestones.

 

On the other hand, I just have 6 trophies from Vita’s Welcome Park I wish I could place where they should belong to from #88 to #93 -- and that’s it. Guess, I’m not alone out there in that kind of situation, who would appreciate possibility to fix this. So should we turn down an idea that would be beneficial to some site users just because that same thing could also be used in a quirky although harmless way by somebody else?

 

19 hours ago, Kittet3 said:

You would also have to mark that those milestones were manually added or else you'll get a poor user experience of "how was his 500 trophy from a 2017 game when his 1000 was from 2006?" issues.

 

I suppose, all the trophies without timestamps should keep this “Missing Timestamp” warning at the front-end instead of any invented date, that would only be used internally.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Se7en

[Cassylvania]

3 hours ago, Se7en said:

Yes, you are right. Someone like you with over a thousand trophies without timestamps to pick from could have filled all the existing milestones however they like and then profile viewers might find it confusing  But how does anyone deliberately skewing their own milestones impact other users in a negative way? Would it really affect me? Or MMDE? Or anybody else on this site, who does care about their personal milestones in the first place? Doubt it. Currently it is Sly’s job to take out the fun for people who planned their 25th platinum and later found out it was gone from milestones.

 

That's how I feel too. I made this account specifically for milestones, only to have which ones are actively displayed change. Thus, to me, milestones are meaningless now. They're just one person's interpretation of what "matters".

 

I see no problem in allowing users to manually place trophies with missing time stamps, assuming that it's easily doable from a technical standpoint. That seems like a simple solution, and it shouldn't impact any player in a negative way...unless, for some reason, you're bothered by the fact that there would be a work-around for people who want to change their milestones.

[StoRmAreA]

On 18.11.2017 at 3:53 AM, MMDE said:

Not sure how hard it should be to treat the no timestamps as the 0 unix timestamp that it is when sorting the order?  

 

Does it actually show missing timestamp trophies as the first earned trophy? Thought maybe it was changed to first earned non-missing timestamp trophy, but that like the 1000th one includes the missing timestamps ones.  

lol man you are everywhere.

 

How does these missing timestamps even come from?

[Kittet3]

1 hour ago, StoRmAreA said:

lol man you are everywhere.

 

How does these missing timestamps even come from?

Not ever connecting your system to the internet and getting trophies. As soon as you connect it the internal clock gets set and stays set.

[StoRmAreA]

On 3.12.2017 at 0:10 AM, Kittet3 said:

Not ever connecting your system to the internet and getting trophies. As soon as you connect it the internal clock gets set and stays set.

what if you do all trophys except 1 without clock set, and then connect and do the last one, will it say "platinumed in 1 sec"?

[skateak]

46 minutes ago, StoRmAreA said:

what if you do all trophys except 1 without clock set, and then connect and do the last one, will it say "platinumed in 1 sec"?

Edited December 4, 2017 by skateak