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Is Journey any good?


MMDE

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I think judging by reviews and many people's opinions it's easy to think that this game is a master piece or something.

 

It's definitely better than their previous two games. Unfortunately, this dev team focus on presentation over gameplay.

 

Fl0w was complete junk. Some might think it looks nice or something, but it's just the black background against some few glowing creatures that move around eating each other. You wouldn't accept this these days from any other indie dev. It would be laughed at, pointed out as the problem with indie games and talked about as an issue even being in the PSN store. It even got a DLC etc.

 

Flower, despite it's glowing reviews was nothing but presentation. The gameplay? You just glide around in some landscapes picking up petals with awful controls. Nice presentation, but little to nothing beneath the fluff. Relaxing? The awful controls didn't make me relax.

 

So, saying it was better than their previous two games doesn't say much about it. In fact, I would say stay away from their previous two games, but this one is actually playable.

 

Journey is an "okay" game. The presentation is definitely strong and in that way the game is excellent. The gameplay is where it's lacking, but this game have you actually doing more interesting stuff. There's some tiny puzzles, and you got more platforming and almost action sections. There's secret collectibles that affect your gameplay and the world interact more with what you do etc. I still wouldn't accept this by a game that didn't have as strong of a presentation, so I'm not sure why I would here either. It's a bit like a way too easy platformer where you can't even jump without having recharged.

 

Sure, it's a fun little thing to play through once just to experience it, but that's it. The game lasts for a couple of hours, so there you go. Your time is probably better spent on a movie or something, but there's trophies for as long as the servers are up.

Edited by MMDE
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I've always felt it was a bit overrated. These highly symbolic themes games sometimes pick up always go right over my head. Maybe it's just that the game invites some introspection and reflection so those that find some relevance feel that the game is very impactful. For me, it had some nice visuals and sliding down the sand was fun. There was something kind of cool with the multiplayer aspect where you can find a companion and cooperate without any real means of communication. My young kids really enjoyed it, which I found interesting. 

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22 minutes ago, MythRaider1994 said:

It has an ambience that I liked - like ICO or Shadow of the Colossus, it’s got a minimalist story and presentation that puts focus on the beauty of the game world.

 

Personally, I think it’s an excellent game and I wish there were more games like it.

 

But ICO and Shadow of the Colossus got way better gameplay. SotC especially has excellent gameplay. ICO is one of the games I've seen do 3D puzzle platforming best, and SotC just took it a step further into the action and real-time aspect of it. Not just that, they had interesting concepts that worked and I'd say some was even rather innovating and refreshing.

 

I can't say any of that for Journey.

 

12 minutes ago, Toogie53 said:

There was something kind of cool with the multiplayer aspect where you can find a companion and cooperate without any real means of communication. My young kids really enjoyed it, which I found interesting. 

 

But it just didn't feel that meaningful in Journey. I even experienced trolls. Sure, you got regaining health faster and recharge the jump, but else, it just felt like a bad rush to finish the levels faster or something.

 

And besides, I have already experienced this in games like Demon's Souls, where it's done way better and it even has lore behind it.

 

18 minutes ago, StrickenBiged said:

God you're lucky you're not on reddit. This topic would disappear! xD

 

Anyway, I disagree.

 

It was, ahem, about the journey. It wasn't about gameplay or any of that stuff. It was the hero's journey condensed into its bare minimum. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Screen+Shot+2015-02-16+at+10.43.55+PM.pn

 

 

I think that says a lot about reddit...

 

Not sure what I disagreed with any of this about. I said it had a strong presentation, but I think the gameplay was pretty bad. You just wouldn't accept this if the strong presentation wasn't there. And I think this is a way better game than their previous works. Never said the game was bad, just questioned how good it was. The gameplay isn't good IMO.

Edited by MMDE
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14 minutes ago, MMDE said:

Not sure what I disagreed with any of this about. I said it had a strong presentation, but I think the gameplay was pretty bad. You just wouldn't accept this if the strong presentation wasn't there. And I think this is a way better game than their previous works. Never said the game was bad, just questioned how good it was. The gameplay isn't good IMO.

 

The mechanics supported and reinforced the hero's journey. Your first PT, you would come across an experienced player, one who has been on the journey, who would show you where to go and guide you, in the role of the mentor. Then, after your transformation and return, you would become the mentor for other players, showing them where to find the collectibles, etc. 

 

Sure, you can only do that floaty jump thing, but I think you're being a bit too literal in what you're considering "gameplay".

 

Think in terms of "mechanics" instead - I don't know if I've ever seen a game which reinforced its theme and story so strongly through it's mechanics as Journey

 

Edit: which is to say, I disagree that the devs focussed on presentation over gameplay. They obviously thought very long and hard about the gameplay - which is more than just how many actions your character is capable of performing.

Edited by StrickenBiged
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10 minutes ago, StrickenBiged said:

 

The mechanics supported and reinforced the hero's journey. Your first PT, you would come across an experienced player, one who has been on the journey, who would show you where to go and guide you, in the role of the mentor. Then, after your transformation and return, you would become the mentor for other players, showing them where to find the collectibles, etc. 

 

Sure, you can only do that floaty jump thing, but I think you're being a bit too literal in what you're considering "gameplay".

 

Think in terms of "mechanics" instead - I don't know if I've ever seen a game which reinforced its theme and story so strongly through it's mechanics as Journey

 

Some of this seems like post-reasoning to me. They wanted to do something, and then they found a reason to do it. Talking specifically about the "blue phantoms" (Demon's Souls reference). It just happens to be after the popularization of it from Dark Souls... Coincidence? I don't think so for one second.

 

Mentor? It's not like you need that. One thing the game has done well is presentation, and having studied this topic a bit myself, they seem to nail some of the basics pretty well. You want things like controlling a user's natural flow on the screen. See the things you want them to, and usually the order you want them to too. Because they already do this kind of stuff well, there's no point in the game where you really feel lost in any way, so the mentor is pretty damn pointless.

 

I'm not saying any of their games lack gameplay. That kind of comments I restrain to games like Dear Esther (stay away from that pompous overhyped garbage that shoved the way for the worst of the shovelware we find on steam these days). I'm just saying it's not that good. See if you can remove the presentation from your judgement of the game for a second. What is it you're left with? I'd argue a pretty mediocre at best game. Not only way too easy and just plain boring, but also you've seen everything before done way better and it's so short.

 

Had I judged solely on the basis of gameplay, I'd say it was a terrible game. As it currently is, it's a nice presentation, some ideas not executed all that well tbh in terms of good gameplay (which is the hard part to nail) and I think you're better off watching a movie.

Edited by MMDE
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At it's core, it's simple and short.  Depending on why/how you play games... this may be enough to turn you off.

 

Personally, my first playthrough I found another random player... and we played through basically the entire game together.  By the end of the game, despite the sheer beauty of the sights and sounds of what was happening... I actually felt bad when I realized I lost them at some point flying around in the last stage/level/chapter.  I waited at the very end, hoping by some luck they fell behind but not into "disconnect" range.  Eventually they came flying in and we jumped and clicked around eachother excited and proceeded to complete the playthrough.  It was a remarkably satisfying experience for me.

 

It isn't about being challenging or complex, it's about "the journey" as it were.  The mechanics are simple to allow you to soak in everything else, and the game is short to make a playthrough something palatable in one sitting and whenever the "mood strikes".  If you can't appreciate that, I wouldn't say it's a "terrible game"... there's little objectively terrible about it with proper context.  I'd say it probably wasn't for you.  Games are an artform, now more than ever.  Journey is a good representation of that.

Edited by Dreakon13
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One of the best games out there.  If you find a random player, play along with them.  It is unbelievable.  I have played through the entire game by myself (many times) which is truly enjoyable also. The beauty and music, the ending, everything, well, it just centers me.  I play it to just really bring me back to what matters, you know?

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8 minutes ago, Dreakon13 said:

At it's core, it's simple and short.  Depending on why/how you play games... this may be enough to turn you off.

 

Personally, my first playthrough I found another random player... and we played through basically the entire game together.  By the end of the game, despite the sheer beauty of the sights and sounds of what was happening... I actually felt bad when I realized I lost them at some point flying around in the last stage/level/chapter.  I waited at the very end, hoping by some luck they fell behind but not into "disconnect" range.  Eventually they came flying in and we jumped and clicked around eachother excited and proceeded to complete the playthrough.  It was a remarkably satisfying experience for me.

 

It isn't about being challenging or complex, it's about "the journey" as it were.  The mechanics are simple to allow you to soak in everything else.  If you can't appreciate that, I wouldn't say it's a "terrible game"... I'd say it probably wasn't for you.  Games are an artform, now more than ever.  Journey is a good representation of that.

 

What I don't think they nailed was a good gameplay. That's honestly one of the hardest parts of making a good game IMO. And the gameplay doesn't need to be complex, just satisfying or fun or something like that. When the gameplay is not something you'd ever accept with a lesser presentation, it probably isn't a good sign. Someone brought up Shadow of the Colossus and ICO earlier, those games excelled in both ways, so I don't really buy the presentation as a good excuse.

 

5 minutes ago, Tesla_Rules said:

One of the best games out there.  If you find a random player, play along with them.  It is unbelievable.  I have played through the entire game by myself (many times) which is truly enjoyable also. The beauty and music, the ending, everything, well, it just centers me.  I play it to just really bring me back to what matters, you know?

 

I played it through 3 times, and I played with multiple people. I met like 20 people. I even PM'd the guy who helped me with the companion trophy and told him thanks. But, I'm not blown away by this aspect of the game. Just seemed tacked on after seeing the popularizing of it by Dark Souls where it was done so much better, but you got Demon's Souls to thanks for this.

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5 minutes ago, Tesla_Rules said:

@MMDE Sorry, don't really see the connection between Journey and Dark Souls

 

What you talked about was the co-op aspect of it. This is more than likely "inspired" by Dark Souls and Demon's Souls.

 

I remember games like MindJack definitely got inspired after Demon's Souls.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MindJack

 

And the stuff in Watch Dogs, probably Dark Souls etc.

 

Not just me seeing this stuff, I did some simple googling and found plenty of others who was of the same opinion.

 

http://observationdeck.kinja.com/what-journey-and-dark-souls-share-1720300980

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Just now, MMDE said:

I'm not saying any of their games lack gameplay.

 

I'm not trying to defend any of their other games, btw. Flower was ok, haven't tried fl0w. I'm not trying to defend thatgamecompany in general, just this game.

 

Haven't tried Dear Ester either.

 

7 minutes ago, MMDE said:

Some of this seems like post-reasoning to me.

 

Well, yes. I enjoyed the game immensely and am trying to articulate to you why I think it was so clever. So I am reasoning to understand my own reaction better. 

 

3 minutes ago, MMDE said:

Because they already do this kind of stuff well, there's no point in the game where you really feel lost in any way, so the mentor is pretty damn pointless.

 

I don't know about you, but I missed a lot of the collectibles on my first PT and encountered around 5 unique mentors. Looking back, these were times that the other player was trying to get me to follow him or go to him and I was too focussed on the objective which the game had, as you say, directed me towards. 

 

It was only once I met a mentor who was better able to communicate to me that he wanted me to follow him that I eventually realised where I had gone wrong. I stuck with this guy until the end of the game and found more of the collectibles from these later levels. 

 

So I don't think that the mentor is pointless, nor that the presentation tells you everything you need to know. 

 

9 minutes ago, MMDE said:

See if you can remove the presentation from your judgement of the game for a second. What is it you're left with? I'd argue a pretty mediocre at best game. Not only way too easy and just plain boring, but also you've seen everything before done way better and it's so short.

 

Ok, maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by presentation? Because I think the marriage of mechanics and theme are what makes this game so good. It would be a lesser game without the art direction and music, sure, but I do not rate that as highly as the thematic impact the game had on me. 

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21 minutes ago, MMDE said:

 

What I don't think they nailed was a good gameplay. That's honestly one of the hardest parts of making a good game IMO. And the gameplay doesn't need to be complex, just satisfying or fun or something like that. When the gameplay is not something you'd ever accept with a lesser presentation, it probably isn't a good sign.

 

Most games would be unacceptable nowadays without their "presentation", unless you play exclusively low-spec arcade shooters.

 

What would you have done to improve Journey's gameplay?  Saying it should've been more fun and satisfying is incredibly subjective, and vague...

Edited by Dreakon13
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It's an average game for me. Without writing a very detailed and throughout review about it, I think this game lacks in gameplay department and it has nice graphics/presentation elements, but that's it. The problem isn't that character actions are simple or limited, it's just that it doesn't really evolve through the game. You simply jump and glide the entire game, there is no learning curve, there is no real development in this department. The presentation is nice as I said earlier, but I'd rather have game where the gameplay is weaker but you have a strong story/characters (i.e Telltale games) than just having nice graphics and weak gameplay.

 

 

 

 

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Just now, Otonio_Bruno said:

It's an average game for me. Without writing a very detailed and throughout review about it, I think this game lacks in gameplay department and it has nice graphics/presentation elements, but that's it. The problem isn't that character actions are simple or limited, it's just that it doesn't really evolve through the game. You simply jump and glide the entire game, there is no learning curve, there is no real development in this department. The presentation is nice as I said earlier, but I'd rather have game where the gameplay is weaker but you have a strong story/characters (i.e Telltale games) than just having nice graphics and weak gameplay.

 

 

It's like a 2-3 hour game.  It shouldn't need to "evolve".

 

The point of the game was to be digested in one sitting.  Evolution of gameplay and learning curves go starkly against that goal.

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I disagree on all 3 games you mentioned. I got the feeling you kind of missunderstood what they wanted to do with the games. Maybe it sounds cheesy but it was all about the feeling and the message. what you call presentation should create a feeling an just suck you in. which is only possible if you like to open up to it.

I got goosebombs when I first completed journey with an unknown partner who was not only always with me but also made a connection with me communicating without words and it was really awesome.

yes, the previous games were not that good, the gameplay in flow was tricky, but in flower I really loved it.

I completed all games in every version (journey x2, Flower and flow x3) bc I wanted to have all the trophylists possible in my list to show how much fun these titles were for me.

 

It is okay to say you didn't like them, but I don't think this is about gameplay or something its just a question of taste.

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Just now, Dreakon13 said:

 

It's like a 2-3 hour game.  It shouldn't need to "evolve".

 

The point of the game was to be digested in one sitting.  Evolution of gameplay and learning curves go starkly against that goal.

 

I strongly disagree. There are plenty short games with 2 hours or less that evolve so much that it gets very intense by the end of it.

 

Examples:

Prince of Persia Classic

Thomas Was Alone

Lone Survivor

Any old-school Castlevania games

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3 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

Yes, it is.

 

It also is not for everyone.

 

It’s a game about conveying a feeling.

Not an idea, or a story or even a mood, but a feeling

 

The poeple who like it, felt a feeling. The ones who didn’t, didn’t. That’s a shame, but there’s nothing that can be done to change that.

 

There are games that can support a bunch of arguement about the various merits of specific gameplay mechanics/ graphics/ technical aspects, but this isn’t one of them.

 

Journey is not a game that anyone is going to change their mind on.

 

If you like it, and felt you ‘got’ it, well, you did. You are right.

 

If you didn’t like it, or feel that you didn’t ‘get’ it... well, you’re right too.

 

No one explaining what they liked about it to you is going to change your mind, as it can only be enjoyed by experiencing it. If you played it and felt nothing, well... that’s that. 

 

Explaining a feeling would be like writing about a smell, or singing about a texture, or dancing about a colour.

 

It doesn’t work.

 

 

This. Thank you!

I love you right now, no need to explain that either :D

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People are too obsessed with gameplay they miss out the incredibly obvious things that can make a game great. Games like Inside, Journey, Limbo, Bound ... are not gameplay heavy games. They rely on telling a suttle story that you can experience. All four games I mentioned are absolutely fantastic in that aspect. I don't always play videogames for gameplay. As a matter of fact, I heavily prefer games like I mentioned. It's like reading a good book, a rollercoaster of emotions. I'd rather have games make me feel something. They are always a breath of  fresh air.

Same with Everybody's Gone to the Rapture. I was so incredibly immersed in everyone their stories. It's a walking simulator, so not real gameplay. I enjoyed it so much.

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It was not a good game but a good presentation.. I believe game is one which has a good story and good gameplay.. that's what I feel should be considered a video game.. but then these sort of things in which we have very less gameplay and strong presentation or story are also popular among people.. me personally m not a fan of such games.. but every1 has a choice so I don't complain.. these games are directed towards people who like movies more.. I don't really watch movies a lot..so gameplay is something I really look for and a good story is always a plus.. so if I were to rate a video game.. I will look for gameplay as well as presentation.. otherwise it's a movie only with you controlling some aspect..you like such games because you liked the presentation.. which is similar to liking a movie.. so as a video game I would rate it 3/10.. as a presentation 9/10.. 

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