The steady corruption of the AAA gaming industry

[StrickenBiged]

This is very relevant, if anyone fancies another long read.

 

http://www.hellblade.com/the-independent-aaa-proposition/

 

If you haven't played Hellblade yet, I highly recommend it. One of the most moving games I've played, definitely most moving this year. 

[yowzagabowza]

@discdox

 

The games that 20-30 year olds are playing that you fear will disappear or change are most likely the big yearly releases anyway, like COD and Madden and stuff.  

Those will change, but that's cuz they're "bubble and burst" games. 

 

Games like Zelda (which, sadly, the last I played was Twilight Princess [gayest name ever] on GameCube), HZD, Hellblade, The Evil Within, games that are single player, story focused experiences, they'll always be here. 

Traditional gaming won't die until all of us do. I'm 37 and have been playing since I was 4, on Colecovision and Atari. I'm married, have a job I wake up early as shit for, a daughter, a house, all the grown up stuff. But I play more games NOW than ever before. And I don't play any MP games at all. 

 

The dudes only playing COD and Madden and Ass Creed and Destiny will most likely drop out sooner or later and those games won't matter as much.  

[Lorajet]

1 hour ago, StrickenBiged said:

This is very relevant, if anyone fancies another long read.

 

http://www.hellblade.com/the-independent-aaa-proposition/

 

If you haven't played Hellblade yet, I highly recommend it. One of the most moving games I've played, definitely most moving this year. 

Had never heard of this game.  Looked it up, looks good.  

[StrickenBiged]

5 minutes ago, Lorajet said:

Had never heard of this game.  Looked it up, looks good.

 

Just looking at your PSNP card in your sig, if you enjoyed Unitl Dawn and are enjoying LiS then I think you'll love it.

 

Search for "Ninja Theory" on YT and you'll be able to watch their diaries from the making of it too to get more of a feel for what it is. 

 

Hellblade just won 3 awards at the Game Awards too, if plaudits sway you. 

[diskdocx]

32 minutes ago, yowzagabowza said:

@discdox

 

The games that 20-30 year olds are playing that you fear will disappear or change are most likely the big yearly releases anyway, like COD and Madden and stuff.  

Those will change, but that's cuz they're "bubble and burst" games. 

 

Games like Zelda (which, sadly, the last I played was Twilight Princess [gayest name ever] on GameCube), HZD, Hellblade, The Evil Within, games that are single player, story focused experiences, they'll always be here. 

Traditional gaming won't die until all of us do. I'm 37 and have been playing since I was 4, on Colecovision and Atari. I'm married, have a job I wake up early as shit for, a daughter, a house, all the grown up stuff. But I play more games NOW than ever before. And I don't play any MP games at all. 

 

The dudes only playing COD and Madden and Ass Creed and Destiny will most likely drop out sooner or later and those games won't matter as much.  

 

That was basically my point. We aren't playing those AAA games, and the folks that are now, will probably find their tastes change.

 

And I don't think the next generation of gamers is as attached to consoles as the current peak gamer demographic.

 

And I'm not afraid of those games changing. I don't find them appealing. There is lots of other stuff out there.

 

But if I look at the AAA market, as a whole, I could probably avoid the entirety of it and not feel a void. And I don't think I am alone

[StrickenBiged]

22 minutes ago, diskdocx said:

But if I look at the AAA market, as a whole, I could probably avoid the entirety of it and not feel a void. And I don't think I am alone

 

You're not. Check out the blog post from the Dev I posted at the top of this page (the guy from Ninja Theory). He sets out his problems approaching AAA publishers. Basically, any projects he took to them would get shot down as being too niche or not being able to forecast enough sales for them to be interested. As a consequence, AAA is becoming more uniform and boring, appealing to the mass market and no-one-in-particular. I feel it.

 

If you'd rather watch. 

[Zenpai]

3 hours ago, StrickenBiged said:

This is very relevant, if anyone fancies another long read.

 

http://www.hellblade.com/the-independent-aaa-proposition/

 

If you haven't played Hellblade yet, I highly recommend it. One of the most moving games I've played, definitely most moving this year. 

 

Whew. Just finished it. It's more verbose than even myself, but oh God, what a compelling read.

What a great glimpse into the minds of the big AAA publishers these days. No heart, no soul, just "design-by-spreadsheet". Almost like taking a bunch of data, putting it into a machine and telling it to produce a game.

 

This is why the 6th generation is still my favorite to this day. Back then, with the hardware limitations and barely any Internet connection capabilities, publishers had no choice but to rely on... you know, actually making a good game, with creative visuals and gameplay to make a profit. And if it paid off, then hopefully you could turn it into a franchise. There was also the fact that, since the hardware was limited, you could make a great game with and for a lot less, so the risk was a lot lower and publishers were a lot more likely to take on a few gambles. It was the perfect age, when hardware was good enough to make compelling experiences, but not so good that you'd have to rob a bank just to fully take advantage of it.

[yowzagabowza]

4 hours ago, diskdocx said:

 

That was basically my point. We aren't playing those AAA games, and the folks that are now, will probably find their tastes change.

 

And I don't think the next generation of gamers is as attached to consoles as the current peak gamer demographic.

 

And I'm not afraid of those games changing. I don't find them appealing. There is lots of other stuff out there.

 

But if I look at the AAA market, as a whole, I could probably avoid the entirety of it and not feel a void. And I don't think I am alone

 

Eh, I can't avoid ALL of the AAA games. I need at least six a year in order to even justify a console purchase, haha. I've enjoyed lots of indies, Guacamelee 2 is my most anticipated game, but if there were zero AAA games looking great on my big ass tv, I wouldn't buy a console. 

[AJ_Radio]

7 hours ago, diskdocx said:

 

I think the industry is evolving though. I've been gaming since the Atari 2600, and while I realize I am not the common age demographic, I do believe the industry is headed towards another crash (or rather, and adjustment is coming).

 

I think the majority of gamers are now in their 20-30's. They grew up with consoles in their house, and this was a part of their lives. As they age, their disposable income for gaming, and their available time, will start to change. They will have families, jobs, lives (wives ) and gaming will shift.

 

AAA titles will need to change. You will either have consumers that buy 3-4, 100 hour AAA games a year, or you will have people shifting to games that make more sense for them personally.

 

I no longer have interest in massive titles. I don't want to play them, I don't have any interest in competitive MP, and I don't have interest in 100 hours of repetitive crap.

 

Despite playing and finishing over 100 games this year, my AAA list is small - I went back and cleaned up Borderlands 1&2, I played Gravity Rush 2 (disappointment), and have just started Titanfall 2 (a bit of an outlier, with minimal MP at least in terms of trophies, and a relatively short campaign overall). Otherwise I have a few 'tier 2' games - some Telltale stuff, a couple of older PS3 games I've had kicking around like Spiderman, and the rest is indies.

 

And you know what, I love them. As much as the AAA games have fallen off my radar, this is the golden age for indies. Some of the best games I've played this year are smaller, under the radar games. Yes, there's been a fair amount of crap in there, but I love to find those gems.

 

Gaming will evolve. I look at my kids, and while a couple of them will jump into a co-op game (gonna start Lego Star Wars with my son over the weekend), mostly they don't have much interest in console games. They play on their phones or mobile devices. And that is where I see gaming going for the younger generation.

 

As the peak age of console players age, it will be the AAA titles that will need to evolve or die.

 

This reminds me of all the people who played World of Warcraft when it released in 2004. As part of a guild they had to put a lot of time into their character, not only did they participate in raids and dungeons but they also had to act as a leader. Managing the guild and all the members who were a part of it, who all had families, jobs and other responsibilities to look after.

 

I find a lot of them who quit are in their late 30s and 40s who could no longer invest the time needed to do the latest raids and PvP battlegrounds. This age demographic especially here in the United States is the primary audience. This is also a good reason why a lot of AAA gaming has shifted to more mature themes in the past 10 - 15 years. Games like The Witcher 3 and Grand Theft Auto V have been big sellers, and neither game was ever intended for children.

 

25 - 30+ years ago video games catered to a more niche audience. The primary audience was kids and young teenagers who played Mario and Sonic games. Television commercials featuring Nintendo games pandered to this audience. Today they aren't kids anymore, they're middle aged adults who have to look after their own children and have to manage their own jobs.

 

Creativity has taken a huge decline in AAA games. As I said in another topic, where is DOOM? Where is Super Mario 64? Both games set the bar for what was to come afterwards. Today I mostly see games copying off each other in the AAA industry. Star Wars Battlefront and Destiny in my eyes are a better, more polished version of how Halo 2 and Half Life: Counterstrike were back in the day.

 

They're not taking new ideas or taking any risks. EA and Activision just pump out the same Madden, FIFA and Call of Duty games year after year with the same mechanics and the same gameplay. The only differences I see are changed rosters, and a different setting for the Call of Duty games. Hell Call of Duty's latest title WWII really doesn't look all too different from World at War, and that game was released 9 years ago.

 

I have to agree in that some of my favorite games recently have been indie games. Hotline Miami 2: Wrong Number, Velocity 2X and Shovel Knight are all excellent titles that make good use of their gameplay mechanics and have their own style. Indie games are mostly headed by small companies, or by a small group of people. Some games, like Dust: An Elysian Tail, was headed by one man. And yet there was more creativity and talent in Dust: An Elysian Tail than there is in practically all the Madden and Call of Duty games. Pretty sad how just a few people can come up with more talent and style with one game than an entire franchise headed by over 1000 people working on it. I'm looking at you Activision and EA.

 

1 hour ago, yowzagabowza said:

 

Eh, I can't avoid ALL of the AAA games. I need at least six a year in order to even justify a console purchase, haha. I've enjoyed lots of indies, Guacamelee 2 is my most anticipated game, but if there were zero AAA games looking great on my big ass tv, I wouldn't buy a console. 

 

Six AAA games a year is probably looking a bit too much for me.

 

I consider things like the PS4 Pro and the Xbox One Scorpio to be utterly pointless especially since I'm not really a big fan of AAA games anymore. Today if you want the most graphics wise on your console you have to buy a $399 console for the Pro, which isn't terrible as far as pricing goes. But if you want to take things a step further you can buy an Ultra 4K TV, which can range from several hundred dollars from most retailers to sometimes at two grand or more, if you want a great sound system to boot.

 

With that amount of money ($1000 - 2000+) I can probably buy up 50 - 100 indie games that I could get more enjoyment out of than just 8 - 10 AAA games I bought that have PS4 Pro enhancements. They could all be like Destiny 2, where you're forced to pay microtransactions. As a matter of fact you may still have to pay a little extra money for that one trophy. Brian at PS4Trophies was pissed and I don't blame him at all for being so.

 

Graphics doesn't equate to a great game.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Spaz

[Evil_Joker88]

Nice text here and a bit sad to see the direction of modern games. But i am avoiding it all as i don't like mp at all and the game i played online the most this year are old titles like Bf Bad Company, Uncharted 3 (ps3) and Lost Planet 2. DLC existed as least partially but no MTs. And yes i'm guilty of buying DLC even to get one trophy...

 

From the recent releases i played Indie titles only. But reading that 10% of gamers invest like 90% of Fifa Income through MTs i see that even if the majority of players wouldn't buy a new Fifa or give additional money to EA they still gets lots of dollars... Oh well i still find good games with singleplayer only or little multiplayer parts... Instead of looking for NfS Payback i'll get the older title (NfS PS4)...

[yowzagabowza]

30 minutes ago, Spaz said:

 

This reminds me of all the people who played World of Warcraft when it released in 2004. As part of a guild they had to put a lot of time into their character, not only did they participate in raids and dungeons but they also had to act as a leader. Managing the guild and all the members who were a part of it, who all had families, jobs and other responsibilities to look after.

 

I find a lot of them who quit are in their late 30s and 40s who could no longer invest the time needed to do the latest raids and PvP battlegrounds. This age demographic especially here in the United States is the primary audience. This is also a good reason why a lot of AAA gaming has shifted to more mature themes in the past 10 - 15 years. Games like The Witcher 3 and Grand Theft Auto V have been big sellers, and neither game was ever intended for children.

 

25 - 30+ years ago video games catered to a more niche audience. The primary audience was kids and young teenagers who played Mario and Sonic games. Television commercials featuring Nintendo games pandered to this audience. Today they aren't kids anymore, they're middle aged adults who have to look after their own children and have to manage their own jobs.

 

Creativity has taken a huge decline in AAA games. As I said in another topic, where is DOOM? Where is Super Mario 64? Both games set the bar for what was to come afterwards. Today I mostly see games copying off each other in the AAA industry. Star Wars Battlefront and Destiny in my eyes are a better, more polished version of how Halo 2 and Half Life: Counterstrike were back in the day.

 

They're not taking new ideas or taking any risks. EA and Activision just pump out the same Madden, FIFA and Call of Duty games year after year with the same mechanics and the same gameplay. The only differences I see are changed rosters, and a different setting for the Call of Duty games. Hell Call of Duty's latest title WWII really doesn't look all too different from World at War, and that game was released 9 years ago.

 

I have to agree in that some of my favorite games recently have been indie games. Hotline Miami 2: Wrong Number, Velocity 2X and Shovel Knight are all excellent titles that make good use of their gameplay mechanics and have their own style. Indie games are mostly headed by small companies, or by a small group of people. Some games, like Dust: An Elysian Tail, was headed by one man. And yet there was more creativity and talent in Dust: An Elysian Tail than there is in practically all the Madden and Call of Duty games. Pretty sad how just a few people can come up with more talent and style with one game than an entire franchise headed by over 1000 people working on it. I'm looking at you Activision and EA.

 

 

Six AAA games a year is probably looking a bit too much for me.

 

I consider things like the PS4 Pro and the Xbox One Scorpio to be utterly pointless especially since I'm not really a big fan of AAA games anymore. Today if you want the most graphics wise on your console you have to buy a $399 console for the Pro, which isn't terrible as far as pricing goes. But if you want to take things a step further you can buy an Ultra 4K TV, which can range from several hundred dollars from most retailers to sometimes at two grand or more, if you want a great sound system to boot.

 

With that amount of money ($1000 - 2000+) I can probably buy up 50 - 100 indie games that I could get more enjoyment out of than just 8 - 10 AAA games I bought that have PS4 Pro enhancements. They could all be like Destiny 2, where you're forced to pay microtransactions. As a matter of fact you may still have to pay a little extra money for that one trophy. Brian at PS4Trophies was pissed and I don't blame him at all for being so.

 

Graphics doesn't equate to a great game.

I don't equate graphics to greatness either (and I'd never support those mid gen machines) but I certainly WANT at least six AAA games a year that are good games AND look good. It's ok to have both?

[AJ_Radio]

45 minutes ago, yowzagabowza said:

I don't equate graphics to greatness either (and I'd never support those mid gen machines) but I certainly WANT at least six AAA games a year that are good games AND look good. It's ok to have both

 

It’s fine if you enjoy a lot of AAA games. I just don’t think they’re as grand and innovative as they used to be. These days the indie market is absolutely killing the AAA market when it comes to talent. 

 

Madden and FIFA games are the same thing every year, but you know hundreds if not a thousand people worked on them, no necessarily in developing the games but managing the work teams and finances of these big companies. Just goes to show that AAA gaming has become a corporate, factory produced machine that is looking to make big profits off of the products they sell. 

 

Meanwhile those two guys who rented out that garage space to produce and distribute their game somehow poured more of their hearts into their product than a massive game EA published that over a thousand people were involved with. Big massive budgets don’t mean shit, to me it mostly means higher production values and more technology needed to make that next Destiny game or Star Wars Battlefront. 

[MidnightDragon]

Every time I see something like this, this music pops into my head.

 

 

I can remember when you bought the game and it was complete and the bug testing was done before release and not after. Though I don't like the direction gaming is going, there's still more good than bad.

 

I try not to rush out and buy the latest games on day 1. I've gotten better at it, but not 100% immune to it yet.

 

[German_Atheist]

My solution for this mess: Buy shit used! By that I mean games from asshole publishers like EA or Activision.

 

To say it with a quote from one of my favorite movies:

 

[Gone Fishing]

.

 

 

Edited September 14, 2020 by Fragtaster

[roccolou]

I am not surprised by EA's actions, simply put, this industry seems broken as a whole.

[SolarCat02]

I only got into gaming six years ago, and I have to confess that I never really understood why "AAA" was a term used to describe games. I mean, usually something labeled AAA is better quality, but in the gaming world it just means it has a developer name from a particular list attached to it, and probably had more people working on it. 

 

I usually have more fun with the Indie games. They are the AAA quality, to me, while the "AAA games" for PS4 just have a bigger budget. The AAA games for PS3 had a higher quality standard, though, compared to the PS4. Only PS4 AAA games that interest me really are the ones from Sony's studios.

[Dr_Mayus]

4 hours ago, Piano Reeves said:

My solution for this mess: Buy shit used! By that I mean games from asshole publishers like EA or Activision.

 

To say it with a quote from one of my favorite movies:

 

But companies like Activision also publishes games like Transformers War for Cybertron and EA puts out games like Shadow of the Damned...so just because you don't like a publisher doesn't mean they don't put out good games. 

 

And when that company starts losing money they won't turn against Madden of COD...they will turn against their smaller companies so we don't get games like Boom Blox anymore.

[Gone Fishing]

.

Edited September 14, 2020 by Fragtaster

[German_Atheist]

17 minutes ago, Dr_Mayus said:

so just because you don't like a publisher doesn't mean they don't put out good games. 

Strawman. I never said that.

 

20 minutes ago, Dr_Mayus said:

And when that company starts losing money they won't turn against Madden of COD...they will turn against their smaller companies so we don't get games like Boom Blox anymore.

It's not my responsibility to keep these companies running. Rockstar Games only release games every three years and they still sell more than any Madden, Assassin's Creed or CoD. Why? Quality over quantity.

[Dr_Mayus]

9 minutes ago, Piano Reeves said:

Strawman. I never said that.

 

It's not my responsibility to keep these companies running. Rockstar Games only release games every three years and they still sell more than any Madden, Assassin's Creed or CoD. Why? Quality over quantity.

But you said to never buy games from them meaning you will punish good games because you don't like the publisher (thus hurting the developers)

 

Also R* games are notoriously buggy games that are quite repetitive. I haven't played everything they have done but the couple games I have played start off good but wear out their welcome pretty quickly. Also any developers that put out games with game breaking bugs (R* and Bethesda are the kings of this) can't really have the "quality" stamp thrown on them. 

 

Also do you expect me to believe that LA Noire and Max Payne 3 outsold Call of Duty or Madden? 

Edited December 16, 2017 by Dr_Mayus

[German_Atheist]

23 minutes ago, Dr_Mayus said:

Also do you expect me to believe that LA Noire and Max Payne 3 outsold Call of Duty or Madden? 

Even more strawmen? Come one, you can do better than that!

[Dav9834]

3 hours ago, Piano Reeves said:

Even more strawmen? Come one, you can do better than that!

 

Seriously though, if you buy used you will be part of shuttering down studios that create games that you like. 

It's about money and marketing. Always has been. Remember dreamcast? It had more quality hardware than ps2, I can attest to it. And good quality games! 

 

We just got through massive closures of precious studios just a few years ago. No company in its right mind is going to stop producing its most profitable game series. They're more likely to close others and reinvent Madden, CoD, etc, instead to make the most they can. They're not non profit, it's not a charity. It's a tough business

 

I'm not saying you have to buy these games in any way shape or form(I don't), but it's not going away. AAA always meant their most profitable and best regardless of system, or quality of the game. 

Edited December 16, 2017 by Dav9834

[German_Atheist]

1 hour ago, Dav9834 said:

Seriously though, if you buy used you will be part of shuttering down studios that create games that you like.

Uhhmmm, nope. I buy games used if they lose their value rapidly. Why should I pay 60 € for the newest FIFA if it'll lose 80 % of its value within a year? If publishers like EA, ActiBlizz, Ubisoft or SquareEnix ask for the middle-finger salute, I'll be more than happy to deliver. Again, I'm not responsible for this garbage. It's people who buy every CoD plus season pass for 100+ €, every FIFA plus FUT crap for 100+ €, every Assassin's Creed that is bugged beyond belief. Have a look at The Witcher III. This game is a AAA premium product everyone is happy with. As a result, the game sold 14 million copies and is widely considered one of the greatest games ever made.

[pinkrobot_pb]

So let me get this straight.... we need to buy all the cookie cutter Maddens, FIFAs and Assassins Creeds as a kind of supportive action to make sure they don't axe the games I actually enjoy and am willing to pay for? The point is that they are axing those games and the devs behind them already, all the time. So what amount of cash would prevent that?