Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Spaz

Are MMORPGs dying?

54 posts in this topic

Over the past few days I have debated on whether or not I should delve back into the realm of MMORPGs. Prior to trophy hunting I spent several years and thousands of hours on such games as Runescape and World of Warcraft. While most console games still have you readily able to access most of the content within a few dozen hours, MMOs require several hundred hours in order to build up your character.

 

Anyone who has played Runescape, World of Warcraft and Maple Story certainly knows where I'm coming from.

 

Since I mostly restricted myself to playing single player games that take anywhere from a couple of hours to a few dozen hours, I'm starting to miss the joy of logging into a MMO and being able to interact with thousands of players who are all on at the same time. But it simply isn't the same anymore.

 

One popular argument is too many MMOs have tried to follow the formula World of Warcraft got highly successful from back in 2004. You create a character, have him or her grind up levels by doing various quests, and prepare for the end game content. Raids, Dungeons and PvP Battlegrounds were the main focus in World of Warcraft. It was awesome to me back in the early 2000s that you could interact with somebody from halfway across the world who is interested just as much as you are in playing the game. I spent hours upon hours playing with others and helping each other out. In Runescape I helped groups of friends take down various bosses in the God Wars Dungeon, I helped players escape from PKERS (Player Killers) in the Wilderness. It was good fun and sadly those good times will probably never come back.

 

These days I see players more focused on trying to be the most efficient possible, regardless if it's fun or not. There have always been at least a few people here and there who played to be the best of the best and I don't really see anything wrong with that. The problem I have is that is the general way of thinking. In World of Warcraft anything that isn't endgame content doesn't matter. It's mostly filler content that everybody breezes by because none of it is really that important. I started to find more and more players getting angry at someone for simply not dealing enough DPS (damage per second). If they just stood around or dealt very low damage in comparison to everyone else it's completely understandable that they would get kicked out of the party. But I saw some people dealing just under the threshold of damage someone expected them to get and that was enough to piss them off. Over time this became more and more apparent until I finally decided to quit World of Warcraft. Blizzard Entertainment won't allow me to get my account back since I logged in from an anonymous computer, so that was pretty much done.

 

Then there is the problem of the games themselves changing far too much. I can barely recognize Runescape anymore from the early years when I started playing back in the early 2000s. Even Old School Runescape which I played extensively from 2013 to late 2015 has seen a huge set of changes. Change is inevitable, I fully understand that. Changing the game mechanics and the way the economy is handled just to fit in with other games or to please a lazy group of people is often disastrous. They hurt the long term integrity of the game itself.

 

Several years ago I wanted to get 200M in Attack in Runescape, which was going to require a couple thousand hours of dedication on my end using the fastest, most efficient experience methods possible. That was blown out of the water when Jagex released more and more content that would cut down the time required by a fraction. I spent countless hours grinding away at various skills like Woodcutting, Fletching, Thieving and Agility to try to get a sense of accomplishment and achieve something only a select few have gotten. But with such things like Skill Capes, Max Skill Capes and Perks the masses decided that they too could do just what I was already doing for years. Only they could achieve that milestone quicker than I because Jagex kept making the game easier and easier.

 

Nearly every MMORPG I have ever played in my 29 years (nearly 30) has made a valiant effort to get easier and easier over time. 

 

The costs of keeping up a subscription for MMORPGs have become more expensive over time as well. What used to be cheap and affordable has become more and more expensive. I have to pay a higher fee every year to keep playing Runescape or World of Warcraft. Certainly a lot more than what I pay for Playstation Plus, which gives me not only online multiplayer but sales on PSN and "free" games through the service. The thousands upon thousands of hours I poured into MMORPGs, which was a good portion of my life, has ultimately amounted to nothing. In Runescape I was pretty high rank in several skills, some of which I managed to obtain 20 - 30M XP in and was certainly in the top 500 - 1000 in them. But today it doesn't matter, because I have moved on.

 

I fail to see anything new come out of MMORPGs in years. I either see a MMO trying to be like World of Warcraft, or a MMO that is immediately dead in the water. There are free MMOs, but they are essentially "buy to win" games where those who have a higher income in real life have a big advantage over those players who aren't so lucky. Microtransactions and lootboxes are rampant, because if you thought today's AAA games were bad, Free to Play games are much worse in this regard. Highly imbalanced, and a big waste of time to bother playing.

 

So that's my thoughts and opinions on this. Personally I just don't see the draw with MMORPGs anymore, especially considering for a number of them you have to pay a hefty subscription fee every month. World of Warcraft is over 13 years old at this point and about 90 - 95 percent of everyone I see who still plays that game are long term veterans. Old School Runescape is mostly a group of no lifers who had already played Runescape for many years prior to OSR's release in early 2013. There are barely any new players, and those who are new usually don't stick around too long. When you have a game that costs more to play than most games you play on Playstation or Steam, people are going to stick with a platform that has more affordable, good games.

 

Maybe a MMORPG will come along and bring in a new generation of fans, or bring back the nostalgia and excitement that used to be in many MMOs over a decade ago. MOBAs have proven to be much more popular and exciting to play and watch. League of Legends and DOTA 2 dominate the Twitch.tv market and for good reason. I have no interest in playing those games, but I can definitely admit they're more worth your while than most MMORPGs that have progressively gotten worse as the years wear on.

 

Any of you having similar thoughts?

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't read all of that cause.. Well, come on lol.

 

But I don't think MMO's are dying. Warframe isn't exactly an MMO but it definitely follows 95% of the tropes and it's flourishing. ESO was a big hit and still draws in tons of players. There's tons of MMO's that are maintaining their success, like DCUO, SWTOR, and LOTRO.

 

It sounds more like you're just not interested in the formula anymore and there's nothing wrong with that, happened to me with linear shooters, but there's also nothing wrong with the genre of MMO's. Sure, the hype has calmed down compared to what it was, but that's happened to a lot of genres over the years.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think MMO's that are already big will be fine. WoW and FF14 aren't going anywhere anytime soon. I think it's less accessable to new MMO's, and it's harder for the smaller MMO's to grow. MMO's aren't really a niche thing anymore, so they need to be made easier for mass appeal. I've only really played FF14 for any length of time, but because it's easy to get in to it didn't put me off. If it was like what I hear WoW use to be, a sort of 'hardcore needed' mentality I would have bailed.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, sorry to say, but you may be right about MMOs dying in the sense that you described them.

Trophy hunters may be killing them off. 

I tried ESO, but found it so insanely difficult.

Evan Nintendo is making their hard games easier. 

 

But, while MMOs may be less popular than they were, now single player RPGs are really luring people to put hundreds of hours in them instead.

Ever tried an Elder Scroll game? Or Zelda?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MMOs are still going strong.

 

I myself play MMOs but not on a regular basis. I just can't play a single game "forever", I want to play so many games and cannot be bothered to commit to one game full time, all the time.

 

So I found that the best MMOs for me right now are Guild Wars 2 and ESO.

 

ESO you can basically play like a single player Elder Scrolls game and only NEED other people if you play dungeons and if you do so, there's some level scaling etc. in place so that virtually everyone can participate whenever he likes. So there's no "hardcore needed" mentality. You can go down that route, join a guild etc. if you want but it's not a must.

 

The same goes for Guild Wars 2 (PC game). It does not have the kind of item spiral that you know from games like WoW where you grind for gear and then with the next update your gear becomes useless and you have to grind for the next hot shit. Also, it features an excellent system where quests simply "happen" on the map and everyone that's there can participate immediately and you only need to form groups for specific dungeons and raids, which are optional. It also features great story and lore (ESO does as well) and can therefore also be enjoyed for hours and hours playing alone. Oh and the world bosses, I love the world bosses :) It's an awesome game!

 

Also a big plus: both of them are subscription free!

 

And for those interested in such things, they both feature competitive PvP.

 

So for me, they are the perfect fit because I can indulge in them whenever I want without feeling like I'm behind all the other people since the mechanics of those games aren't build on the need to have the latest gear and a specific amount of DPS or whatever and since they are subscription free, there's no pressure where I feel like I have to play it now since I paid for this month etc. These two games are also very kind to new players - there's a huge amount of content but you can play all of it at your own pace, which is nice. And GW2 especially has the nicest community in gaming IMO.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Gear treadmill, skinner box, artificially extending progress/xp bars.... all tiring tricks and people are having none of it anymore.  Time to wake up and stop developers making games like this.  They are designed to keep people playing longer and longer and incentivizing them to spend money to speed up that progress, through boosts, etc.  Where's the fun? 

 

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=mmos+are+dead

Tons of videos :) 

Edited by DARKB1KE
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the issue with players wanting to be as efficient as possible is because MMOs these days get new content updates at such fast pace. If you don't actively and efficiently reach for the best possible gear, everything you have is outdated and useless in a couple of months. This is one thing that eventually drove me away from MMORPGs that I used to enjoy (Ragnarok Online, Requiem, TERA, FFXIV, etc.). Everything seems futile and you fall behind the other player base if you don't have hours of time to grind on the game almost daily.

 

I just logged in to FFXIV yesterday and there were a lot of people online even on a less populated server. The game is going strong and it's apparently a very profitable business for Square Enix so it's not going to die out any time soon.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still find some MMOs to be widely used and quite popular. I just don't have the time to invest in them. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, KingGuy420 said:

I didn't read all of that cause.. Well, come on lol.

 

But I don't think MMO's are dying. Warframe isn't exactly an MMO but it definitely follows 95% of the tropes and it's flourishing. ESO was a big hit and still draws in tons of players. There's tons of MMO's that are maintaining their success, like DCUO, SWTOR, and LOTRO.

 

It sounds more like you're just not interested in the formula anymore and there's nothing wrong with that, happened to me with linear shooters, but there's also nothing wrong with the genre of MMO's. Sure, the hype has calmed down compared to what it was, but that's happened to a lot of genres over the years.

hehe i lold hard there... same thought... huge text xD

but yeah, its more of people want it to get easier and time is also a big issue. 

after playing Eq2 for years, kinda sad to see servers dying out and then merging to keep them alive. but people always have less time and console gaming is much better with time cause you can just play whenever you have time and not fall behind. thats why trophy hunting is more my thing now than keeping up with everything in a mmorpg

 

lyzerx.png

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They seem to be busy, I'm playing ESO on Pc and I'm getting into raids pretty quick on most days.

I doubt they will die out, all because of the group and solo missions.

 

I never played Wow, since I played console so much. Now I'm balancing Pc and Ps4.

My first MMo was FF14 and it got me hooked, went for the plat and got help from guilds and statics. subbed for a year plus. 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think they are dying, as I still like to get back into ESO.  My complaint is the $15/month to get my craft bag.  That means I will play ESO for a straight 30 days to get my money's worth! But so many players want more instant gratification with faster trophies, and get burned out playing with other people, that I think there is a cycle with these large games.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Yes MMORPGs are dying/dead.

 

The CEOs and other executives of these MMORPG companies have suffered great financial losses.

 

This has lead them to repent and turn to Jesus Christ, Blessed Be His Name Forever and Ever.

 

They now live lives of humility and generosity and produce fruits of repentance in accordance to their faith.

 

Now that MMOs are dead, there is a large fluctuation of Candy Crush and Player Unknown Battleground clones on the market.

 

Sony has opened the way for micro-transactions in their first-party single player games.

 

XBOX is dead, so Microsoft has turned to the adult entertainment homoerotic paraphernalia markets.

 

Atari is back.

 

Sega Dreamcast 2 has been released.

 

Nintendo is still Nintendo.

 

And @Spaz is still Spaz.

 

>:)

Edited by Primeape
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

17 hours ago, KingGuy420 said:

I didn't read all of that cause.. Well, come on lol.

 

lol same.

Edited by Primeape
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, TKdovahkiin said:

But, while MMOs may be less popular than they were, now single player RPGs are really luring people to put hundreds of hours in them instead.

Ever tried an Elder Scroll game? Or Zelda?

I have actually always wondered about this. How do you spend hundreds of hours in an RPG game like Skyrim or Fallout? I was done everything in the main game in Skyrim in about 50 hours and I was completely bored of it by then. I mean there were about 1000 more caves to explore but I knew all of them would contain a bunch of no-prizes so I skipped them.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think there have been so many "greats" when it comes to MMORPGs that it would be hard for anyone else to enter the field as it would probably feel unoriginal.
With that being said, I think it would be difficult to gain new gamers on some of the existing MMOs. From my perspective, it's intimidating to try to break into something where people have spent years and thousands of hours playing. That being said, those players are either going to move on with their lives (or die off), so I just see the player base decreasing there.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I've been playing The Elder Scrolls Online for 3 or 4 years now, and it's pretty darn healthy. I play it on PC, but I hear the console versions have loads of players too. It gets regular updates and has plenty of expansions/dlc, and even more planned for this year.

 

Imho, ESO is the top mmorpg at the moment interms of new content, support and player engament (even though WoW still technically has more overall players).

 

I also play a bit of FFXIV and it's still got lots of players and a great community. Though it feels like it's campaign is wrapping up. But still, tons of content there and a massive community.

 

So no, mmorpgs definitely are not dead or dying. There are just less of them that are successful, and a smaller base than the heyday of WoW. It's a vastly more concentrated marked these days (smaller audience), but those that do succeed, are indeed very healthy and aquire massive active communities that play day in and day out. 

 

The WoW days may be over, but Mmorpgs evolved to survive, and those that didn't died off.

 

Edited by Fragtaster
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i never played MMOs before, than i got destiny 2 

if destiny 2 is a MMO game then i will never play another MMOs again

basically you have to grind hundreds of hours to get some gear and then a new update will come every two week and there's new beater gear.

when you get this gear you have no place to store them (the vault size in destiny is very small) so what's the point ?

the game is very repetitive and easy and heavily built around microtransaction. they just keep adding more and more of the same weapons and gears but in different skin. they call this new content being added, not new missions, quests, areas, strikes.

also this is such a big time commitment that not only i don't have, but even if i had it's just not worth it. i rather spend this time in completing several other games.

it's looks likes MMOs are not for me.

 

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I don't think MMO's are dying... the concept is just evolving.

 

The mainstays like WoW, FFXIV and ESO will stick around, kinda grandfathered in if you will... but the MMO-lite's (Destiny, Guild Wars, Warframe?, etc) are more likely the direction they go going forward, since those games seem more inclined to go the free/buy-2-play/MT's route and will inevitably draw more people in.

 

You'll always have the revolving door of smaller MMO's releasing/localizing and subsequently closing down after a few months/years... but that's been going on forever.

Edited by Dreakon13
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Dr_Mayus said:

I have actually always wondered about this. How do you spend hundreds of hours in an RPG game like Skyrim or Fallout? I was done everything in the main game in Skyrim in about 50 hours and I was completely bored of it by then. I mean there were about 1000 more caves to explore but I knew all of them would contain a bunch of no-prizes so I skipped them.

Right?! I know, Skyrim is supposed to have over 3000 hours of content. Personally, I have done the trophies on different profiles and platforms about 10 times different ways. I always wanted to do everything else in the game, on say the PS4 Pro but can't seem to make myself in 6 years. I end up doing the trophies as different characters with different skills. I get sidetracked by being guided by trophies instead of allowing the game itself to immerse me, like I did in Zelda, Breath of the Wild which doesn't have trophies. Even with that one I only played two hundred hours - for the main content without finding all of the Korok seeds and locations. After the main content, I usually find myself asking whats the point. Maybe I'll be able to finally answer that question if I finally play Skyrim on the Switch without trophies and see if I can really put hundreds of hours into one game/character! Maybe someone who does this would open up a thread on Skyrim Special Edition to tell us about it!

 

But one of the reasons people can put so much time into any of these MMORPGs or single player RPGs imo is because of identifying with the character you make and living out your life creatively in the game. Its so addicting to see what you can accomplish in so many different ways.

 

I was hoping to have endless content in ESO despite not being able to go for all the trophies, but the daily grind of armor/ leveling and fast respawning enemies deterred me before I could get strong enough to do everything there - making MMO's unappealing for people like me that want to explore content without so much competition and challenge.

 

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, TKdovahkiin said:

Right?! I know, Skyrim is supposed to have over 3000 hours of content. Personally, I have done the trophies on different profiles and platforms about 10 times different ways. I always wanted to do everything else in the game, on say the PS4 Pro but can't seem to make myself in 6 years. I end up doing the trophies as different characters with different skills. I get sidetracked by being guided by trophies instead of allowing the game itself to immerse me, like I did in Zelda, Breath of the Wild which doesn't have trophies. Even with that one I only played two hundred hours - for the main content without finding all of the Korok seeds and locations. After the main content, I usually find myself asking whats the point. Maybe I'll be able to finally answer that question if I finally play Skyrim on the Switch without trophies and see if I can really put hundreds of hours into one game/character! Maybe someone who does this would open up a thread on Skyrim Special Edition to tell us about it!

 

But one of the reasons people can put so much time into any of these MMORPGs or single player RPGs imo is because of identifying with the character you make and living out your life creatively in the game. Its so addicting to see what you can accomplish in so many different ways.

 

I was hoping to have endless content in ESO despite not being able to go for all the trophies, but the daily grind of armor/ leveling and fast respawning enemies deterred me before I could get strong enough to do everything there - making MMO's unappealing for people like me that want to explore content without so much competition and challenge.

 

 

I mean the trophy thing is part of it but that really just directs you on a path so it still wouldn't account for 1000s of hours being put into a game.

 

I mean before trophies I would still 100% games and after you do everything the world has to offer you either start again or move on to a new game.

 

But people get different joys out of different play styles so obviously it works for them :)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, linkdevivo said:

i definitely hope so.

 

The destruction of MMORPGS is imminent!

 

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, mojtaba333 said:

i never played MMOs before, than i got destiny 2 

if destiny 2 is a MMO game then i will never play another MMOs again

basically you have to grind hundreds of hours to get some gear and then a new update will come every two week and there's new beater gear.

when you get this gear you have no place to store them (the vault size in destiny is very small) so what's the point ?

the game is very repetitive and easy and heavily built around microtransaction. they just keep adding more and more of the same weapons and gears but in different skin. they call this new content being added, not new missions, quests, areas, strikes.

also this is such a big time commitment that not only i don't have, but even if i had it's just not worth it. i rather spend this time in completing several other games.

it's looks likes MMOs are not for me.

 

 

 

I wouldn't call Destiny an MMO. It has some elements of MMO but don't judge the genre on that game. Also MMO's are not even close to being dead they just don't have the AAA titles and the advertisement the other games have. The majority of the MMO's currently are free to play and enjoy a pretty heathly life cycle.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/2/2018 at 3:50 AM, Dr_Mayus said:

I have actually always wondered about this. How do you spend hundreds of hours in an RPG game like Skyrim or Fallout? I was done everything in the main game in Skyrim in about 50 hours and I was completely bored of it by then. I mean there were about 1000 more caves to explore but I knew all of them would contain a bunch of no-prizes so I skipped them.

 

I played Skyrim for about 200 hours.

Then I played the Special Edition for another 100 or so.

Now I'm playing it again in VR :D

I don't get bored of it :D

 

There is so much more than the main storyline in those games. The different guilds f.ex. with their questlines are so good! The Dark Brotherhood is a particular highlight.

Then building a house and decorating it and putting books on shelves etc. and then adopting a kid and find someone to marry ...

Maxing all the skills, becoming an unbeatable god, collecting weapons and armor to display them in your home etc. ... I get a lot of joy out of those games :)

 

In Fallout 4, I built myself an "Ironman" garage :D

12310050_10153373742976379_7728591945865

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

7 minutes ago, Sicho said:

 

I played Skyrim for about 200 hours.

Then I played the Special Edition for another 100 or so.

Now I'm playing it again in VR :D

I don't get bored of it :D

 

There is so much more than the main storyline in those games. The different guilds f.ex. with their questlines are so good! The Dark Brotherhood is a particular highlight.

Then building a house and decorating it and putting books on shelves etc. and then adopting a kid and find someone to marry ...

Maxing all the skills, becoming an unbeatable god, collecting weapons and armor to display them in your home etc. ... I get a lot of joy out of those games :)

 

In Fallout 4, I built myself an "Ironman" garage :D

12310050_10153373742976379_7728591945865

 

The thing I notice about these types of games is that they ALLOW freedom!  They let the player play how they want to. 

MMO's are very restricting.  They restrict time based, by income, by paywalls, by content, etc. everything just makes people play only a certain way.  You're not allowed to have inventory space, you need to purchase that!  

Edited by DARKB1KE
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.