If it wasn't for assist mode, the platinum difficulty rating of this would've been a 10/10.

[Crzy Minus]

Even if you choose to play without it, it can be. But the fact that it's just there reduces it to a 2/10 difficulty rating.

 

It's like turning God Mode on, and it doesn't even affect trophies. lmao

 

Btw I would've been fine if it didn't had it, I would've still gone my way to get it the real way like I've done with other games like this before.

 

I just find it really odd that why would such an option be available without any penalty relating to trophies.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Crzy Minus

[NaseemJohn]

It’s a shame tho. Should of disabled trophies when you activate cheats. 

[Pots3k]

Let me start off by saying that, regardless of how much I don't like Assist mode, I understand the point of it in that it serves to let other people experience the game's story. That's fair enough.

 

HOWEVER

There is no good reason that anyone can say that justifies the use of Assist mode on B or C-Sides. There's no story in those modes, it just purely designed for the challenge. It was a terrible oversight by Matt and co which has actively hurt the games reputation.

[g-bake_1986]

6 hours ago, Decroux3000 said:

 It was a terrible oversight by Matt and co which has actively hurt the games reputation.

 

It may have "hurt the games reputation" amongst trophy hunters but I don't see anything beyond that. The game did extremely well critically, and many gaming outlets and consumers actually praised it FOR having assist mode. I would imagine that most players that want to 100% Celeste will use assists, and I don't see what's wrong with that.

 

For as much as we love trophies you guys seem to be forgetting that the game is still the most important thing, certainly in the eyes of the developers. Many developers don't care or see the audience's love for achievements, which is why many don't fight to have platinums or better trophy lists. Developers that do care about trophies gave us My Name Is Mayo. At least Celeste has a platinum, and you are free to achieve it with or without assists, does it really matter which you choose?

[Gage]

6 minutes ago, g-bake_1986 said:

 

It may have "hurt the games reputation" amongst trophy hunters but I don't see anything beyond that. The game did extremely well critically, and many gaming outlets and consumers actually praised it FOR having assist mode. I would imagine that most players that want to 100% Celeste will use assists, and I don't see what's wrong with that.

 

For as much as we love trophies you guys seem to be forgetting that the game is still the most important thing, certainly in the eyes of the developers. Many developers don't care or see the audience's love for achievements, which is why many don't fight to have platinums or better trophy lists. Developers that do care about trophies gave us My Name Is Mayo. At least Celeste has a platinum, and you are free to achieve it with or without assists, does it really matter which you choose?

 

If you say "they don't care about trophies/achievements" then there is basically no point to doing B/C Sides if you're just doing it with assist on. They're intended to be an extra challenge, so if you negate the challenge then why are you doing them? The justification doesn't make sense to me in that regard. 

 

I get the inclusion of it and think it's fine for usage in story so people can see the whole thing if they're not that great at the platforming, but allowing it in the part of the game that is there to be challenging just seems like a weird decision to me. 

[Pots3k]

On 2/14/2018 at 8:51 AM, g-bake_1986 said:

 

It may have "hurt the games reputation" amongst trophy hunters

 

Yes, that still means it hurt the game's reputation.

 

On 2/14/2018 at 8:51 AM, g-bake_1986 said:

I would imagine that most players that want to 100% Celeste will use assists, and I don't see what's wrong with that.

 

I do because outside of the main story, there is no reason to complete the other content other than the satisfaction of beating the challenges painstakingly designed by Matt. The Assist Mode adds nothing to B/C-Sides and not only diminishes his work but also actively hurts the game by adding a further psychologically negative element to those who are trying to 100% the game legitimately but constantly have this reminder that they could make any given challenge "juuust that much easier, all you need to do is click that assist button."

 

On 2/14/2018 at 8:51 AM, g-bake_1986 said:

For as much as we love trophies you guys seem to be forgetting that the game is still the most important thing, certainly in the eyes of the developers

 

Fine. Take away the trophies. I've played Matt's previous games, like MoneySieze, Give Up, Robot and An Untitled Story. 100%'d them all with no "achievements" to show for it. I did it for the challenge, why else would anyone go out of their way to complete specifically non-canon challenge content. Which reinforces my point - there is no justifiable reason to allow the use of Assist Mode for the End-game challenge content. There's no narrative benefit to finishing it - it's just challenges. With assist mode it's literally nothing.

 

On 2/14/2018 at 8:51 AM, g-bake_1986 said:

Developers that do care about trophies gave us My Name Is Mayo. At least Celeste has a platinum, and you are free to achieve it with or without assists, does it really matter which you choose?

 

I expected better of Matt. He's been designing very challenging games for about a decade now, if not longer. The inclusion of Assist mode makes no sense when compared to his previous work.

 

On 2/14/2018 at 9:02 AM, Gage said:

 

If you say "they don't care about trophies/achievements" then there is basically no point to doing B/C Sides if you're just doing it with assist on. They're intended to be an extra challenge, so if you negate the challenge then why are you doing them? The justification doesn't make sense to me in that regard. 

 

I get the inclusion of it and think it's fine for usage in story so people can see the whole thing if they're not that great at the platforming, but allowing it in the part of the game that is there to be challenging just seems like a weird decision to me. 

 

QFT

 

g-bake, I assume your response is going to be something about me caring way too much. Yeah, I do - I like Matt's games. I also like trophies and challenging games and I like that, for the most part, there is an accurate representation in the rarity of trophies relative to how many people played the game. It's satisfying to have some sub 1% trophies in my milestone trophy list and I feel a bit cheated out of the effort I've put into Celeste clearly not matching the rarity of the trophies themselves. You don't really have much of a platform on which to argue when you're talking to me on a website that showcases earned trophies in these ways.

[WeStMaN16]

Well, someone will always find something to complain about.

[A1rPun]

@Decroux3000 some good points there. Just wanted to let you know I'm a fan of Matts work too (Ogmo, Towerfall) and I'm disappointed in his decision to include assist for B and C sides too.

 

@g-bake Do you really think developers of that mayo game are interested in trophies? They are interested in a certain playerbase that throws money at the screen when they see an easy platinum.

 

Edited February 26, 2018 by A1rPun

[Long-Ryde]

On 2/14/2018 at 9:55 PM, Decroux3000 said:

I do because outside of the main story, there is no reason to complete the other content other than the satisfaction of beating the challenges painstakingly designed by Matt. The Assist Mode adds nothing to B/C-Sides and not only diminishes his work but also actively hurts the game by adding a further psychologically negative element to those who are trying to 100% the game legitimately but constantly have this reminder that they could make any given challenge "juuust that much easier, all you need to do is click that assist button."

I expected better of Matt. He's been designing very challenging games for about a decade now, if not longer. The inclusion of Assist mode makes no sense when compared to his previous work.

 

It opens up the opportunity for anyone to play through the extra stages. Someone who wants to experience the entirety of the content they paid for can now explore it to their hearts content with assist mode. Maybe someone likes the game and wants to take on the challenge but gets stuck on a level or two, no use putting the game down for that one if you still want a challenge and to experience the other levels that were put into the game that you spent your money on.

 

Quote

g-bake, I assume your response is going to be something about me caring way too much. Yeah, I do - I like Matt's games. I also like trophies and challenging games and I like that, for the most part, there is an accurate representation in the rarity of trophies relative to how many people played the game. It's satisfying to have some sub 1% trophies in my milestone trophy list and I feel a bit cheated out of the effort I've put into Celeste clearly not matching the rarity of the trophies themselves. You don't really have much of a platform on which to argue when you're talking to me on a website that showcases earned trophies in these ways.

 

The accuracy of the rarity definitely depends on the game and how many people have played it. LBP 2 has a pretty rare plat but thats probably because there are a lot of people who have played it and as you know, trophy hunters are the minority.

 

As for your own trophies and showcasing them accordingly, next to no one really cares or judges your profile (unless you're one of those numb nuts that plays easy plats over and over on various platforms and regions). For example, I played through Bioshock on survival difficulty, no vita chambers recently. It was very very challenging for me and I'm very proud of the trophy. Come to find out about 3/4 through my play through that there's a glitch that allows you to bypass survivor mode and play on easy all the way through. I still finished my playthrough and got the trophy but didn't make a big deal about why the glitch exists, etc. You know you got the trophy and you know you did it without assist, so stop caring about some silly number next to your plat because it "literally means nothing"

 

[HardXDXtraga]

29 minutes ago, Long-Ryde said:

 

It opens up the opportunity for anyone to play through the extra stages. Someone who wants to experience the entirety of the content they paid for can now explore it to their hearts content with assist mode. Maybe someone likes the game and wants to take on the challenge but gets stuck on a level or two, no use putting the game down for that one if you still want a challenge and to experience the other levels that were put into the game that you spent your money on.

 

That's not the point, it's good that everyone can experience the whole game, what some of us don't agree with is giving those people trophies, this could be another sub 1% plat that some of us love to collect, instead it's a 24% plat.

Comparing to super meat boy, which even before coming to playstation was famous for being hard, if the hardest trophy was 'finish the game' there would be outrage too.

 

It's obvious you don't care about ultra rares and maybe that's why it seems you're missing the point, but the few people that collect ultra rare trophies really respect each other because they know how hard some games are, and finishing what could be a 9/10 plat legit and seeing other plat it with assist mode making it a 3/10 kinda takes away the feeling of acomplishment.

Also, didn't know about that glitch in bioshock, but with saves and knowing what you're doing survival isn't that bad.

[fixbane]

up to c sides no assist, idk about 10/10 difficulty. would have been 10/10 if it required golden strawberries, which are essentially the "no death" runs from super meat boy (which is most definitely a 10/10 plat)

[Crzy Minus]

3 hours ago, fixbane said:

up to c sides no assist, idk about 10/10 difficulty. would have been 10/10 if it required golden strawberries, which are essentially the "no death" runs from super meat boy (which is most definitely a 10/10 plat)

That is true actually, if not a 9/10 at best.

[Soufwar]

I am just gonna leave this here: 

 

Also, i hope every game let you get its trophies in private rooms in multiplayer, get the trophies with cheats, get the trophies in assist modes and story modes, and people like you continue to flip out on gaming being fun. 

[fixbane]

I mean, for me at least it feels like some of this optional content loses its entire point if you can assist mode past it? i've spent like 30 hours on this game and the time to plat is so much lower cause you can get by most of the game with assist and still get trophies. I'm still going for the plat (without assist) cause it is enjoyable to do but instead of this filling up my rare trophy list it's so far down and that's kinda sad you know? Getting rare trophies as decided by this site is pretty fun imo and that got removed from this game's trophies, which are much harder than probably 4/5 of the trophies that are "rarer" than it.

 

I don't really have a solution though, so it's whatever. I agree with arguments about people needing the assist mode still wanting to go through the challenges and be rewarded for it. sadly, people conceptually are going to want to take advantage of such a thing when it just comes down to increasing that plat number. oh well

[JohnCenaSong-]

"would've been a 10/10"? Okay this is definitely exaggerating for sure, not even close to 10, but, yes, it would be regarded as significantly more difficult than what it is now for sure. 

 

I agree with some of what's been said here regarding it being a weird design choice to allow the feature in post-game challenges, but at the end of the day most people who were interested in this games end content wouldn't even consider the assist mode, only the trophy whores jumping on another quick easy plat. So I don't think it really has any negative issues, yeah it'd ruin your own experience if you use it but trophy whores do that all the time in every game they play so this isn't any different to them.

 

The only 'negative' I see is that people can't 'show off' they've done it with their achievements since there's no way to tell if they did it in assist mode or not and... well, quite frankly if you're playing a game just to brag to others that you've beaten it for that e-peen, no one cares, so don't waste your time and do something you enjoy instead.

 

No one should really be concerned about games difficulty reputation or rarity, it doesn't matter. If you want the challenge go for it, if you want trophies use assist, it's all 'whatever'. I've beaten so many "hard" difficulties when there is no difficulty related trophy and I don't even say a thing about it, people can assume I played it all on easy for all I care, I did it for me.

[MMDE]

On 2/12/2018 at 6:19 AM, Crzy Minus said:

Even if you choose to play without it, it can be. But the fact that it's just there reduces it to a 2/10 difficulty rating.

 

It's like turning God Mode on, and it doesn't even affect trophies. lmao

 

Btw I would've been fine if it didn't had it, I would've still gone my way to get it the real way like I've done with other games like this before.

 

I just find it really odd that why would such an option be available without any penalty relating to trophies.

 

How difficult do you consider Crash Bandicoot 1 100% to be? Or N++, nice that you got that one!  

Edited May 2, 2018 by MMDE

[Titanomachy_75]

What is assist mode? And how you get it? Do you have to beat the game before you get the mode?

[DragonQuest238]

Wait... I can just cheese through this game's challenge mode with Assist and still get the platinum?

 

WHY HAVE I NEVER BOUGHT THIS GAME BY NOW!?!? ?

 

But serious, why did I not play this game yet? I'd love to see why this game has become a tournament-valid game for speedrunners. (Seriously, I saw it speedrun at Summer Games Done Quick 2018 in both the normal block and TAS-block.)

Edited July 27, 2018 by DragonQuest238

[Thyasianman]

Wow. This is extremely disappointing. I just got to the C-Sides today and cleared half of them so far. Incredibly difficult. The platinum is going to be a huge success for me. But I was curious why the completion rate was so high for this game given it’s one of the hardest games I’ve ever played. Now it makes sense. Really sad that I’m getting the platinum the legitimate way with already 35 hours dedicated to it, yet people could’ve gotten the platinum in a few hours with assist mode. 

[AJ_Radio]

On 5/1/2018 at 9:03 PM, MMDE said:

 

How difficult do you consider Crash Bandicoot 1 100% to be? Or N++, nice that you got that one!  

 

Crash 1 isn’t that difficult. Indie platformers such as Super Meat Boy or N++ are a lot harder than the Crash games. 

 

The Crash games are considered hard by the mainstream audience that has played them. 

 

I played a little bit of this game and I can safely say this game would of been a sub 1 percent platinum, 9 - 10 out of 10 difficulty game were it not for Assist Mode. Those later screens are no joke, the B and C - sides are absolutely ridiculous. 

[MMDE]

2 minutes ago, Spaz said:

 

Crash 1 isn’t that difficult. Indie platformers such as Super Meat Boy or N++ are a lot harder than the Crash games. 

 

The Crash games are considered hard by the mainstream audience that has played them. 

 

I played a little bit of this game and I can safely say this game would of been a sub 1 percent platinum, 9 - 10 out of 10 difficulty game were it not for Assist Mode. Those later screens are no joke, the B and C - sides are absolutely ridiculous. 

 

Crash 2 and 3 are pretty damn easy. Lol, did all the gold time trials in Crash 3 without the running shoes.  Crash 1 is a bit more difficult.

 

Yeah, N++ and Fenix Furia is pretty difficult, but I kinda wanted a comparison of difficulty to those games and this one.

[Crzy Minus]

On 2018-05-02 at 0:03 AM, MMDE said:

 

How difficult do you consider Crash Bandicoot 1 100% to be? Or N++, nice that you got that one!  

Very sorry for the super late response, and it’s been kinda answered already. But here’s my take on it.

 

The Crash games are fine 3D platformer, not the easiest ones of them all but still fine. More easy for Crash 2 and 3 at least, Crash 1 is indeed more difficulty and might take more time for more casual players. I blame that dogshit bridge level the most.

 

N++ is far more difficult and much closer to Celeste in comparison. It seems very hard at first since the game has a lot of levels and the ones later on reach a very high spike in difficulty. I’d say N++ is much easier than Celeste (without Assist Mode obviously) since each level takes place on one screen. But of course it won’t be any easy at all.

 

Also the movement controls are more strict in N++ than in Celeste since there is no double jump and your moves feel heavier; at the same time I find the controls to be good since the gravity in your jumps leaves for more freedom to build speed momentum.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Crzy Minus

[AJ_Radio]

8 hours ago, Crzy Minus said:

Very sorry for the super late response, and it’s been kinda answered already. But here’s my take on it.

 

The Crash games are fine 3D platformer, not the easiest ones of them all but still fine. More easy for Crash 2 and 3 at least, Crash 1 is indeed more difficulty and might take more time for more casual players. I blame that dogshit bridge level the most.

 

N++ is far more difficult and much closer to Celeste in comparison. It seems very hard at first since the game has a lot of levels and the ones later on reach a very high spike in difficulty. I’d say N++ is much easier than Celeste (without Assist Mode obviously) since each level takes place on one screen. But of course it won’t be any easy at all.

 

Also the movement controls are more strict in N++ than in Celeste since there is no double jump and your moves feel heavier; at the same time I find the controls to be good since the gravity in your jumps leaves for more freedom to build speed momentum.

 

The Crash games have a dose of comedy which I always found amusing since Crash was the mascot that put Naughty Dog on the map back in the days of Playstation 1.

 

I have no problem with the remake Crash trilogy, but you can definitely skip that bridge level beyond initially completing it because of Stormy Ascent. Still a bit tough, took me three hours of trying over and over before I finally nailed it.

 

I definitely won't be buying and playing N++ until I have Super Meat Boy done, because I don't want to add too many games that may take me several months if not a year for me to get to.

 

There's some co-op trophies for N++ but I hear you can do them yourself with a second controller. We'll see.

[Crzy Minus]

7 minutes ago, Spaz said:

 

The Crash games have a dose of comedy which I always found amusing since Crash was the mascot that put Naughty Dog on the map back in the days of Playstation 1.

 

I have no problem with the remake Crash trilogy, but you can definitely skip that bridge level beyond initially completing it because of Stormy Ascent. Still a bit tough, took me three hours of trying over and over before I finally nailed it.

 

I definitely won't be buying and playing N++ until I have Super Meat Boy done, because I don't want to add too many games that may take me several months if not a year for me to get to.

 

There's some co-op trophies for N++ but I hear you can do them yourself with a second controller. We'll see.

I got the N++ co-op trophies with a friend through SharePlay, it was pretty fun.

[MMDE]

1 hour ago, Crzy Minus said:

I got the N++ co-op trophies with a friend through SharePlay, it was pretty fun.

 

Yeah, I got those done through shareplay too, but I've completed a lot more when I had a someone at my place and we played it co op.  And yeah, I love the game. You need to be into pure 2D platformers, but if you are, amazing and tight game with tons of content. No RNG etc.

 

@Spaz I'd recommend Fenix Furia too, though I hope you don't run into any of the glitched trophies issues. I wrote guide for both N++ and Fenix Furia btw. I'd also recommend RETSNOM, which is another game I've written a guide for, if you're at all into them being a bit "puzzle platformer" too. Why stop there?  Oddworld: New n Tasty, Unmechanical, maybe even Apotheon. Those 3 have all been PS+ too.