Last hope

[DARKB1KE]

On 2/20/2018 at 10:00 PM, beeepbooop1100 said:

Creating an account, playing about 3 short rounds to make sure stats save, and including the loading times should take about 15 minutes. Doing this 10 times will take a little under 3 hour

Why would anyone spend 3hrs of their time adding alts when they can spend those 3 hours playing a different game and earning trophies for themselves?

It took me around 15 mins just to create a new email and a new psn account.  Maybe another 5 min to load the game and get past the intro cutscene and the server selection menus. 

It's just not worth it any way you look at this.  I'm sorry it's not what you guys wanna hear but its realistic. 

Edited March 2, 2018 by DARKB1KE

[Sipkowitz]

26 minutes ago, DARKB1KE said:

Why would anyone spend 3hrs of their time adding alts when they can spend those 3 hours playing a different game and earning trophies for themselves?

It's their damn fault for inflating the score so much.

 

If the scores were a 10th of what they are they would do this for themselves, (They are spending that time anyway).

 

If we even look at the rate of 3 Acc/Hour, 40 - 50 Hours would've not only got them a place in the top 20, but free up a position for another earner.

 

It's about saying hey 20k is enough, use the rest of the week to help others out/yourself, lowering the threshold AND reducing demand.

 

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Your strategy is throw more money into this, go faster, faster, FASTER.

 

I'm saying cut down on cost & donate the savings to others, the others would then be on equal footing with the donators, (Same amount of money is spent, which/who benefits more?).

 

I guess you could say they keep the money for themself, however at least the desired item is less expensive.

 

Might be a strange analogy, but it's just the way I see things, I kind of understand the otherside too, where if they have say 4+ bots it would be ALOT quicker than 40+ Hours.

 

I guess the reason this bugs me so much is because it feels like Anti-Boosting.

 

The boosters here are more like Randoms as they are effectively blocking the efforts of others because they may not have the resources so to speak.

 

It's also like paying your way to victory, currencies are time, money or both.

 

No-one stands a chance against those with time & money but others with time & money.

 

If the goal of boosting is to help eachother get the trophies with as little difficulty as possible, why has it become a competion (Ignore server closure as reason).

 

You are saying we should compete with ourselves in a non-friendly manner, just sheer selfishness (Sure the people in the groups are helping themselves at the expense of those NOT in their group).

 

Maybe all this is illogical and i'm just stupid, but that's just my opinion, everyone can have an opinion, can an opinion be classified as correct/incorrect?

Edited March 3, 2018 by Sipkowitz
Added 2nd 1/2

[mekktor]

I doubt the 12k strategy is going to work, but only because of the people who just shit on the idea without any thought. 10 people adding alts full time would reduce the cutoff enough that 1000 people could get the trophy with minimal effort (assuming the trophy is awarded to people tied above the cutoff and there's no reason to believe it wouldn't be). I'd like to see 10 people make that kind of impact while going for their 1,000,000 scores. And just imagine how much easier it would be if more people joined in and worked together on this.

 

Trying to shut down the idea just comes from pure selfishness.

 

You want to see what can happen when the community actually works with each other instead of against each other?

 

This trophy should have been unobtainable but thanks to volunteers who gave hours of their time for no gain and some selfless people who offered others a chance to share the trophy, it wasn't. After working together following very specific instructions, 16 people were able to get this otherwise unobtainable trophy.

[Sipkowitz]

You have no idea how good that response made me feel.

 

Someone on the otherside of the fence so to speak who actually understands the problem at hand.

 

I agree on the 12k thing (It's a nice concept, but people just aren't adhering to it).

 

But what you wrote pretty much sums up what the 12k strategy is. (I call it an experiment).

 

It isn't working solely because not everyone is on board and not helping people like me actually reach that score, and verify my alts.

 

I see rooms with VGC/12k in the title but the Passwords are never sent out.

 

Think how much help all those bots being used for those 100k scores could help the masses.

 

As I wrote in the sessions comments 100k could provide 5 people with 20k, 10 @ 10k, if cutoff were only as high as 10k let's see how much people could qualify with the points from the top 20.

 

Let's round down and say all 20 got pretty close to 100k, so 100 * 20 = 2M, 2M / 10k = 200,000 people.... WTF???? Pyramid scheme or what?

[DARKB1KE]

I mentioned elsewhere in guide threads, helping others is the best way to get them to help you.  For weeks now we were with a small group communicating in discord.  About 4-6 people would leave their characters in someone's lobby turbo'd 24/7.  When they went to sleep, someone else would take over and work on their points.  After those people got the trophy the first week, they swapped spots, and then help the next guy farm kills because they helped them.  So on and so forth the cycle continued steady.  New people would join, put in their time helping someone else, and then get the favor returned.  'Pay it forward' is the term. 

 

3 hours ago, mekktor said:

You want to see what can happen when the community actually works with each other instead of against each other?

but thanks to volunteers who gave hours of their time for no gain and some selfless people who offered others a chance to share the trophy, it wasn't. After working together following very specific instructions, 16 people were able to get this otherwise unobtainable trophy.

 

That's what people in discord were doing... it was a community working together.  None of them were selfish in that manner.

They gave hours of their time for no gain, only to help someone else get the misery over with and put a smile on their face.  

Lots of these people gave their tips and advice to others in the forums here, very specific instructions too. 

 

Another controversial opinion by me:  Treat people nice and they are more likely to want to help you out in the future.  Golden Rule.

I left the discord link, but for best results, don't go in there demanding people help you, you should offer help first.

It's all about communication.

 

2 hours ago, Sipkowitz said:

I see rooms with VGC/12k in the title but the Passwords are never sent out.

 

Most of these people don't even use the forums, or they have their own groups.  Lots of unfamiliar names popping up attempting this trophy lately. 

 

It always has been a difficult trophy.  The added time pressure of shutdown doesn't help.  Evaluate whether it's worth it. 

Edited March 3, 2018 by DARKB1KE

[DARKB1KE]

4 hours ago, Sipkowitz said:

they are effectively blocking the efforts of others because they may not have the resources so to speak.

 

It's also like paying your way to victory, currencies are time, money or both.

 

No-one stands a chance against those with time & money but others with time & money.

 

True, you're never going to be able to compete against people with more time and money. 

That goes for anything regarding trophies, just gotta accept that fact and do the best you can do to make youself happy 1st.

 

That's why people who don't have alts must be good at making friends to help them for this trophy.

It's not a trophy that can be done by yourself, not anymore anyways.  The nature of this trophy is a leaderboard, 1% so its always going to be competitive.

 

Edited March 3, 2018 by DARKB1KE

[Sipkowitz]

OK, that is a fair response.

 

I'm not saying it's easy, i'm not saying help isn't given.

 

My issue is mostly that the cut-off score need not be what it is.

 

17 minutes ago, DARKB1KE said:

For weeks now we were with a small group communicating in discord.  About 4-6 people would leave their characters in someone's lobby turbo'd 24/7.  When they went to sleep, someone else would take over and work on their points.  After those people got the trophy the first week, they swapped spots, and then help the next guy farm kills because they helped them.  So on and so forth the cycle continued steady.  New people would join, put in their time helping someone else, and then get the favor returned.  'Pay it forward' is the term.

 

Not everyone can Turbo. I understand what you're saying here, the above isn't a bad system, it's when that system is used to generate upwards of 100k+ is the issue.

 

That's why I call it selfish selflessness (You are being selfless in helping 1 person the ENTIRE WEEK).

 

I'll rephrase what I'm trying to say, youmay be helping those get the top 20, but you're not helping more than 20 get it per week.

[mekktor]

31 minutes ago, DARKB1KE said:

I mentioned elsewhere in guide threads, helping others is the best way to get them to help you.

 

That's what people in discord were doing... it was a community working together.  None of them were selfish in that manner.

They gave hours of their time for no gain, only to help someone else get the misery over with and put a smile on their face.  

Lots of these people gave their tips and advice to others in the forums here, very specific instructions too. 

 

I appreciate your thought out response here.

 

Looking at these two completely different ways to get this trophy... Your way, sure it does involve collaboration in a small group, but still you are competing with others trying to get into those top positions. It requires a lot of effort and at the end of the day that effort only helps one player. The other way is to increase the number of spots in the top 1%. This also requires a lot of effort but the difference is that the effort you put in helps everyone.

 

Let's say 100 people want this trophy. Well, doing it your way isn't even possible as there won't be that many open spots before the server shuts down. Doing it your way would just lead to a lot of pain and not even everyone getting the trophy. Even doing it the other way (creating alts) it would be almost impossible to open up that many spots. But you don't need to open up 100 spots. You only need to create enough spots to move the cutoff away from those ridiculous scores (from those players who are out of your control) and also reduce it enough to allow people to feel comfortable limiting their scores. People are going to be happier to sit on a score if they didn't have to invest as much time to get it.

 

It's like the analogy with money above. If you were at an auction for a house you would have no choice but to throw money at it until you come out on top. But here we have an auction where we can collude with each other without any consequence and not only that, but there is (likely) a loophole that allows us all to get our own house as long as we agree to bid the same amount. Knowing this, why on earth would you choose to get into a bidding war?

[WhooFlungPoo-_-]

5 hours ago, Sipkowitz said:

It's their damn fault for inflating the score so much.

 

If the scores were a 10th of what they are they would do this for themselves, (They are spending that time anyway).

 

If we even look at the rate of 3 Acc/Hour, 40 - 50 Hours would've not only got them a place in the top 20, but free up a position for another earner.

 

It's about saying hey 20k is enough, use the rest of the week to help others out/yourself, lowering the threshold AND reducing demand.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Your strategy is throw more money into this, go faster, faster, FASTER.

 

I'm saying cut down on cost & donate the savings to others, the others would then be on equal footing with the donators, (Same amount of money is spent, which/who benefits more?).

 

I guess you could say they keep the money for themself, however at least the desired item is less expensive.

 

Might be a strange analogy, but it's just the way I see things, I kind of understand the otherside too, where if they have say 4+ bots it would be ALOT quicker than 40+ Hours.

 

I guess the reason this bugs me so much is because it feels like Anti-Boosting.

 

The boosters here are more like Randoms as they are effectively blocking the efforts of others because they may not have the resources so to speak.

 

It's also like paying your way to victory, currencies are time, money or both.

 

No-one stands a chance against those with time & money but others with time & money.

 

If the goal of boosting is to help eachother get the trophies with as little difficulty as possible, why has it become a competion (Ignore server closure as reason).

 

You are saying we should compete with ourselves in a non-friendly manner, just sheer selfishness (Sure the people in the groups are helping themselves at the expense of those NOT in their group).

 

Maybe all this is illogical and i'm just stupid, but that's just my opinion, everyone can have an opinion, can an opinion be classified as correct/incorrect?

Not commenting on the context, but yes opinions can be incorrect.  They arent an end all be all for info, or safe from critique and being challenged.  Opinion is the lowest form of information.  Opinions can be completely in conjecture.   I.e.  "it is my opinion the earth is flat".  A conjectured opinion is the worst thing to have, and flaunt.  As new information is presented and the opinionated changes said opinion, previous opinion is rendered obsolete, invalid, and absolutely incorrect.

[DARKB1KE]

24 minutes ago, mekktor said:

It's like the analogy with money above. If you were at an auction for a house you would have no choice but to throw money at it until you come out on top. But here we have an auction where we can collude with each other without any consequence and not only that, but there is (likely) a loophole that allows us all to get our own house as long as we agree to bid the same amount. Knowing this, why on earth would you choose to get into a bidding war?

 

The auction thing sounds accurate, everyone is bidding on top of eachother and raises the price.

That would be nice to lower the overall points needed, but you have people from every country that don't speak english also competing in that bidding war.   

You're right, if it was any other trophy that didn't require a leaderboard it would work. 

[mekktor]

3 minutes ago, DARKB1KE said:

 

The auction thing sounds accurate, everyone is bidding on top of eachother and raises the price.

That would be nice to lower the overall points needed, but you have people from every country that don't speak english also competing in that bidding war.   

You're right, if it was any other trophy that didn't require a leaderboard it would work. 

 

Yeah, there will always be some players that you can't control who will go for high scores. But forget about them. What if the cutoff was shifted to the top 50? That would require adding 3,000 alts which would take around 750 man-hours. There are 40 people in the gaming session for this method. That's around 20 hours each to bring the cutoff score below 10,000.

 

Is this possible? Honestly I don't even know. But if people just flat out reject the idea then it doesn't stand a chance.

[Sipkowitz]

 

1 hour ago, WhoooFlungPoo said:

Not commenting on the context, but yes opinions can be incorrect.  They arent an end all be all for info, or safe from critique and being challenged.  Opinion is the lowest form of information.  Opinions can be completely in conjecture.   I.e.  "it is my opinion the earth is flat".  A conjectured opinion is the worst thing to have, and flaunt.  As new information is presented and the opinionated changes said opinion, previous opinion is rendered obsolete, invalid, and absolutely incorrect.

 

Interesting, never thought about this, feel like I learnt something from this.

 

I guess i didn't consider opinions as information, probably because I don't consider what I say to be facts, and understand that they can be subject to critique, knowing what I say can be wrong.

 

So I guess when I wrote that question I genuinely didn't know the answer.

[chucuchus]

Ok... I will help you guys

 

[DARKB1KE]

I was wrong on my previous belief.  I see visually that it is possible to get multiple people the trophy in the 1% if you keep same scores.  I like this idea better. 

 

 

[JohzyDeMartin]

Finally @DARKB1KE has come to the darkside ?

 

Furthermore the video shows how the second place 19 rank ( who is really 20 rank ), that guy got the trophy when only 18.6 (1%) should get it. The game rounds up, as it has done in previous weeks, and included rank 19 .... Which in turn meant they both got it.

 

Based on this one could surmise had 10 people been all rank 19 .. then they all would have gotten it as well. 

Edited March 3, 2018 by JohzyDeMartin