Lets talk about the curious case of Demon’s Souls

[MMDE]

5 hours ago, Sergen said:

 

Unreal Tournament 3 also is obtainable with the use of the method that brings back Bulletstorm 

 

You've got an "okay" on that project as long as, as Sly said, it doesn't get out of hand AKA updated to allow you to unlock various trophies without doing the requirements legitimately etc. This stuff will likely be more clear soon.

 

 

3 hours ago, Han_the_Dragon said:

Ok, but when I meant offline, I was talking of no dupe glitch for soul bosses, if I'm not wrong, there's 1 that you need 4 total (or maybe I made something wrong that forced me to get into NG+++? Not sure, since it was ages ago..)

 

What I linked you to was an offline guide I had written myself. There's no 3.5 playthrough required. You only need to do 1.15 or whatever playthrough offline.

 

2 hours ago, Soufwar said:

I agree, this is a server that doesn't give you any online advantage except playing with other people, its literally the same online server as the one Atlus used to operate. It really is just bitter people wanting to keep their shiny plat barely obtainable now. 

 

Thanks for calling me shit without thinking about the consequences of what you're advocating for. I get that some of you get super excited about some of this stuff, especially when it may benefit you, but advocating for blindly accepting all of this stuff is just going to harm the community in the long run. First of all, it will have to be public, so everyone has the same access. Saying I just want to keep the shiny plat barely obtainable now is just complete bs considering how many people I've helped with the game, and even written several guides etc. Furthermore, it's not "barely obtainable". I've even gone through the same as @Han_the_Dragon did, before duping etc. Game only goes from like 2-3/10 difficulty to like 4-5/10 difficulty, and 5-10 hours to 15-25 hours, and this is for first timers. "Barely obtainable". ?

Edited March 22, 2018 by MMDE

[Han_the_Dragon]

3 hours ago, MMDE said:

 

You've got an "okay" on that project as long as, as Sly said, it doesn't get out of hand AKA updated to allow you to unlock various trophies without doing the requirements legitimately etc. This stuff will likely be more clear soon.

 

 

 

What I linked you to was an offline guide I had written myself. There's no 3.5 playthrough required. You only need to do 1.15 or whatever playthrough offline.

 

 

Thanks for calling me shit without thinking about the consequences of what you're advocating for. I get that some of you get super excited about some of this stuff, especially when it may benefit you, but advocating for blindly accepting all of this stuff is just going to harm the community in the long run. First of all, it will have to be public, so everyone has the same access. Saying I just want to keep the shiny plat barely obtainable now is just complete bs considering how many people I've helped with the game, and even written several guides etc. Furthermore, it's not "barely obtainable". I've even gone through the same as @Han_the_Dragon did, before duping etc. Game only goes from like 2-3/10 difficulty to like 4-5/10 difficulty, and 5-10 hours to 15-25 hours, and this is for first timers. "Barely obtainable". ?

Ok, I didn't knew it was even possible to dupe offline until now , and your guide came a bit late for me, since I got both plats 2 years before you wrote it! And ya, the game may look overwhelm if you rush in, but taking your time, it ends up being not that bad (you usually die more from falling then from enemies.. or at least I did..). The game is unforgiving to some extent, but not remotely impossible like Ninja Guiden games..

 

And I think that in this case it's just people trying to take out any challenge as possible from a game that's actually not that hard if you take your time, seriously, you can cheese down 90% of the bosses in this game, if you want to have a really easy time.... the worst part would be Chunk and Pure stones farm, but if you can dupe those offline, there's literally zero reason to want to use private servers now after the game being out for 9 years.. it sounds more and more as an excuse to open a door for hackers then actually a valid reason, at least it's how I see it. If it was a game that required online for trophies, then ya, it would be worth all the trouble, but since it's something that doesn't require online for the trophies, it just sounds like an attempt to open a bigger can of worms then we need... there's already way to many ways to disguise hacked trophy lists from what I saw, we don't need 1 more way to disguise those.

 

Next thing, I suggest emailing all publishing companies to sell "platinum trophy" time saver keys on PSN, like the old time-saver packs, so you can pay some $$ to auto-unlock the platinum in a legit way  (ya, sounds dumb, but if someone emailed this to EA, they would probably consider it a good practice...)

Edited March 22, 2018 by Han_the_Dragon

[Soufwar]

On 3/22/2018 at 3:17 PM, Han_the_Dragon said:

Ok, I didn't knew it was even possible to dupe offline until now , and your guide came a bit late for me, since I got both plats 2 years before you wrote it! And ya, the game may look overwhelm if you rush in, but taking your time, it ends up being not that bad (you usually die more from falling then from enemies.. or at least I did..). The game is unforgiving to some extent, but not remotely impossible like Ninja Guiden games..

 

And I think that in this case it's just people trying to take out any challenge as possible from a game that's actually not that hard if you take your time, seriously, you can cheese down 90% of the bosses in this game, if you want to have a really easy time.... the worst part would be Chunk and Pure stones farm, but if you can dupe those offline, there's literally zero reason to want to use private servers now after the game being out for 9 years.. it sounds more and more as an excuse to open a door for hackers then actually a valid reason, at least it's how I see it. If it was a game that required online for trophies, then ya, it would be worth all the trouble, but since it's something that doesn't require online for the trophies, it just sounds like an attempt to open a bigger can of worms then we need... there's already way to many ways to disguise hacked trophy lists from what I saw, we don't need 1 more way to disguise those.

 

Next thing, I suggest emailing all publishing companies to sell "platinum trophy" time saver keys on PSN, like the old time-saver packs, so you can pay some $$ to auto-unlock the platinum in a legit way  (ya, sounds dumb, but if someone emailed this to EA, they would probably consider it a good practice...)

I will take that into consideration as a time saver pack, see hacking trophies is my jam. I looooooooooove hacking trophies all the time, look at my time stamps they’re TOTALLY hacked. I desguise myself so well that I am admitting it right now....come on man, you can’t be using the hacker reason as that server is not hacakable, like I said. Its literally the same as the official server, it’s letting players play together and that’s it, how and why do you think that’s not a good idea when the game is being brought back from the dead? 

[Han_the_Dragon]

17 minutes ago, Soufwar said:

I will take that into consideration as a time saver pack, see hacking trophies is my jam. I looooooooooove hacking trophies all the time, look at my time stamps they’re TOTALLY hacked. I desguise myself so well that I am admitting it right now....come on man, you can’t be using the hacker reason as that server is not hacakable, like I said. Its literally the same as the official server, it’s letting players play together and that’s it, how and why do you think that’s not a good idea when the game is being brought back from the dead? 

I wasn't saying that you were hacking stuff, all I said was that doing it will open a new door for hackers to disguise their hacks.

 

There's always people looking for new ways to exploit the system.

 

And this server isn't hackable? Really? Then how they make it run? The people that made this server can do whatever they want with it as well as allow anyone they want to make changes to the server.. so in a way it can be tempered with to work how the people running it want it to work, even if that's not the way it was designed to work originally.

 

To say that it's ok if the server end up being public (and made people aware of it's existence in all Demon's Souls communities, not just selected places), it would be by believing that all parts are in "good will", but sadly in the world were we live, there will be more the enough people willing to take advantages in the wrong way. You know that for sure.

 

And still my main point (Demon's Souls or any other 100% offline possible plats case), is that it's still possible to do those things offline, the server isn't "required", so it's just opening a door that I would rather see closed. Because the "Potential Harm" is greater then the "Potential Good".

[MMDE]

On 3/22/2018 at 8:17 PM, Han_the_Dragon said:

Ok, I didn't knew it was even possible to dupe offline until now , and your guide came a bit late for me, since I got both plats 2 years before you wrote it! And ya, the game may look overwhelm if you rush in, but taking your time, it ends up being not that bad (you usually die more from falling then from enemies.. or at least I did..). The game is unforgiving to some extent, but not remotely impossible like Ninja Guiden games..

 

And I think that in this case it's just people trying to take out any challenge as possible from a game that's actually not that hard if you take your time, seriously, you can cheese down 90% of the bosses in this game, if you want to have a really easy time.... the worst part would be Chunk and Pure stones farm, but if you can dupe those offline, there's literally zero reason to want to use private servers now after the game being out for 9 years.. it sounds more and more as an excuse to open a door for hackers then actually a valid reason, at least it's how I see it. If it was a game that required online for trophies, then ya, it would be worth all the trouble, but since it's something that doesn't require online for the trophies, it just sounds like an attempt to open a bigger can of worms then we need... there's already way to many ways to disguise hacked trophy lists from what I saw, we don't need 1 more way to disguise those.

 

Next thing, I suggest emailing all publishing companies to sell "platinum trophy" time saver keys on PSN, like the old time-saver packs, so you can pay some $$ to auto-unlock the platinum in a legit way  (ya, sounds dumb, but if someone emailed this to EA, they would probably consider it a good practice...)

 

With online you could skip NG+ altogether, although many didn't know this, even among those who helped people by dropping them all the items. You also skip to worry about world tendency. World tendency isn't much to worry about tbh, just don't die in a world in body form until you've accessed the pure white world tendency event in that world and got the unique weapon. That's all you need PWWT for, get like one unique weapon per world. You also get to skip to kill the black phantom NPCs, but there's 1 per world, so no worry, and that part is not missable. What is missable is that you do this without killing any friendly NPC, so you get pure white character tendency from it and gets the Friend's Ring, but few are going to kill friendly NPCs. Lastly they get to skip the Foe's Ring quest, and there's also just collecting all the rings and weapons. IIRC, one PWWT event gets you a ring (world 5).

Edited March 24, 2018 by MMDE

[Soufwar]

4 hours ago, Han_the_Dragon said:

I wasn't saying that you were hacking stuff, all I said was that doing it will open a new door for hackers to disguise their hacks.

 

There's always people looking for new ways to exploit the system.

 

And this server isn't hackable? Really? Then how they make it run? The people that made this server can do whatever they want with it as well as allow anyone they want to make changes to the server.. so in a way it can be tempered with to work how the people running it want it to work, even if that's not the way it was designed to work originally.

 

To say that it's ok if the server end up being public (and made people aware of it's existence in all Demon's Souls communities, not just selected places), it would be by believing that all parts are in "good will", but sadly in the world were we live, there will be more the enough people willing to take advantages in the wrong way. You know that for sure.

 

And still my main point (Demon's Souls or any other 100% offline possible plats case), is that it's still possible to do those things offline, the server isn't "required", so it's just opening a door that I would rather see closed. Because the "Potential Harm" is greater then the "Potential Good".

You would rather see a game stay dead instead of having it online for people to enjoy? A game that’s only on PS3 and is so good and iconic for so many reasons just because you’re afraid people will get an easier time earning trophies in it? Please just tell me how the fuck your opinion makes sense at this point? What part of the “these are exactly similar to the OFFICIAL ATLUS SERVERS” you didn’t understand? This is not for trophy hackers, this is not for trophy hunters, it’s for the game. Trophies are a side thing that are enabled to work the same way as any other trophy popped back when the game was online! Your logic doesn’t make sense, “potential harm” my ass. This is an amazing thing that’s happening that should be celebrated so other iconic games can get back up online and enjoyed, imagine if someone would bring back the resistance servers? Or the killzone servers? That would be amazing but I am sure you’d want them dead because you want keep your valor grand cross trophy no longer obtainable since it’s “potential harm”. Yeah right 

[MMDE]

4 minutes ago, Soufwar said:

You would rather see a game stay dead instead of having it online for people to enjoy? A game that’s only on PS3 and is so good and iconic for so many reasons just because you’re afraid people will get an easier time earning trophies in it? Please just tell me how the fuck your opinion makes sense at this point? What part of the “these are exactly similar to the OFFICIAL ATLUS SERVERS” you didn’t understand? This is not for trophy hackers, this is not for trophy hunters, it’s for the game. Trophies are a side thing that are enabled to work the same way as any other trophy popped back when the game was online! Your logic doesn’t make sense, “potential harm” my ass. This is an amazing thing that’s happening that should be celebrated so other iconic games can get back up online and enjoyed, imagine if someone would bring back the resistance servers? Or the killzone servers? That would be amazing but I am sure you’d want them dead because you want keep your valor grand cross trophy no longer obtainable since it’s “potential harm”. Yeah right 

 

They are not exactly similar to the official Atlus servers. Besides, they're not really Atlus servers AFAIK. Atlus did some localization to English I think, published the game in USA, and had their own wiki page that they threatened similar pages to shut down over, but that's it really.

 

Back to the point, they're not like the original servers. Last I heard they only did the invasion and co-op etc. It didn't do messages or bloodstains or the memorial on top of the nexus. Not sure it does the 3-3 boss either. Neither does it shift world tendency etc.

 

I don't think anyone has said servers like these are a bad idea or shouldn't be done or is wrong etc, at least I don't think anyone has said that. The problem is more what it is used for. If it's used for gaming, having fun, challenge etc, whatever, nobody cares. However, you were talking about using it to earn trophies. I think I answered your question though. The project needs to be public and available for everyone. Either they just get the executable or the code, don't really care, but we won't approve of things held private, because this leads to a lot of issues.

[Soufwar]

4 hours ago, MMDE said:

 

They are not exactly similar to the official Atlus servers. Besides, they're not really Atlus servers AFAIK. Atlus did some localization to English I think, published the game in USA, and had their own wiki page that they threatened similar pages to shut down over, but that's it really.

 

Back to the point, they're not like the original servers. Last I heard they only did the invasion and co-op etc. It didn't do messages or bloodstains or the memorial on top of the nexus. Not sure it does the 3-3 boss either. Neither does it shift world tendency etc.

 

I don't think anyone has said servers like these are a bad idea or shouldn't be done or is wrong etc, at least I don't think anyone has said that. The problem is more what it is used for. If it's used for gaming, having fun, challenge etc, whatever, nobody cares. However, you were talking about using it to earn trophies. I think I answered your question though. The project needs to be public and available for everyone. Either they just get the executable or the code, don't really care, but we won't approve of things held private, because this leads to a lot of issues.

This is known to be public, you just change the DNS on your console and boom you're there, online in a the full Demon's Souls servers. Its public if you want play on the, granted not as easy to get on as the original but if you want get on them you're always welcome. 

[MMDE]

1 hour ago, Soufwar said:

This is known to be public, you just change the DNS on your console and boom you're there, online in a the full Demon's Souls servers. Its public if you want play on the, granted not as easy to get on as the original but if you want get on them you're always welcome. 

 

It might be open for anyone to join at the moment, but the server might be taken down anytime or people might be blocked etc. If not anyone can host it, then it's not okay yet. That'll just be a general rule. You guys got a hang-up in DNS servers and whatnot, but all that does is tell your console where to look for the server.

Edited March 25, 2018 by MMDE

[Soufwar]

So, you want it to be public. But since its public you're not fine with it anymore? Why?

[Han_the_Dragon]

12 hours ago, MMDE said:

 

With online you could skip NG+ altogether, although many didn't know this, even among those who helped people by dropping them all the items. You also skip to worry about world tendency. World tendency isn't much to worry about tbh, just don't die in a world in body form until you've accessed the pure white world tendency event in that world and got the unique weapon. That's all you need PWWT for, get like one unique weapon per world. You also get to skip to kill the black phantom NPCs, but there's 1 per world, so no worry, and that part is not missable. What is missable is that you do this without killing any friendly NPC, so you get pure white character tendency from it and gets the Friend's Ring, but few are going to kill friendly NPCs. Lastly they get to skip the Foe's Ring quest, and there's also just collecting all the rings and weapons. IIRC, one PWWT event gets you a ring (world 5).

Ok. Ya, I know about manipulating World Tendency, actually I played mainly offline when I wanted to get to PWWT or PBWT  to avoid the online WT shift. But ya, online someone could just give the rings and avoiding the need to shift tendency.

 

8 hours ago, Soufwar said:

You would rather see a game stay dead instead of having it online for people to enjoy? A game that’s only on PS3 and is so good and iconic for so many reasons just because you’re afraid people will get an easier time earning trophies in it? Please just tell me how the fuck your opinion makes sense at this point? What part of the “these are exactly similar to the OFFICIAL ATLUS SERVERS” you didn’t understand? This is not for trophy hackers, this is not for trophy hunters, it’s for the game. Trophies are a side thing that are enabled to work the same way as any other trophy popped back when the game was online! Your logic doesn’t make sense, “potential harm” my ass. This is an amazing thing that’s happening that should be celebrated so other iconic games can get back up online and enjoyed, imagine if someone would bring back the resistance servers? Or the killzone servers? That would be amazing but I am sure you’d want them dead because you want keep your valor grand cross trophy no longer obtainable since it’s “potential harm”. Yeah right 

"Keeping the game alive" is not the point here.. it's ok if they use the servers to keep the game alive so that fans can continue to have fun in it, it just shouldn't be allowed to use it for trophies and if what MMDE said is true and the servers just allow for a fraction of the stuff that the original server did, then they are modded servers to work how those who built it wanted them to work, and don't work like the original server did.. this was half of my original point.. those who build if can mod it however they see fit... (the other point is that there's no valid reason to allow it because the platinum can be earned legitly offline, and in quite a fast way using that platinum guide..)

 

I have several  impossible trophies because game servers closed (at least RR Driftopia) or because the servers had featurea removed (GTA5 on PS3) and I wouldn't go get them if they became possible, because I don't think that's legit to use external servers. And by your logic is totally ok to get GTA5 bounty trophy on ps3 if you get someone to put the bounty on you, right? After all, those hackers are just allowing you to do something that R* took out from the online part of the game..

 

2 hours ago, Soufwar said:

So, you want it to be public. But since its public you're not fine with it anymore? Why?

It's open, not public.. also, what's the DNS that you need to use to acess it? After all this time, I still didn't saw that.. so, public? (I did a little google and think that I found the DNS at reddit, if it's that one, but the whole point was that I did the search after knowing what to look for and even there the DNS was just posted recently...). 

 

And apparently they made some changes that go strictly against how Demon's Souls was intended to run because they wanted (no lvl restriction on match making? Nice one!).

[Soufwar]

57 minutes ago, Han_the_Dragon said:

Ok. Ya, I know about manipulating World Tendency, actually I played mainly offline when I wanted to get to PWWT or PBWT  to avoid the online WT shift. But ya, online someone could just give the rings and avoiding the need to shift tendency.

 

"Keeping the game alive" is not the point here.. it's ok if they use the servers to keep the game alive so that fans can continue to have fun in it, it just shouldn't be allowed to use it for trophies and if what MMDE said is true and the servers just allow for a fraction of the stuff that the original server did, then they are modded servers to work how those who built it wanted them to work, and don't work like the original server did.. this was half of my original point.. those who build if can mod it however they see fit... (the other point is that there's no valid reason to allow it because the platinum can be earned legitly offline, and in quite a fast way using that platinum guide..)

 

I have several  impossible trophies because game servers closed (at least RR Driftopia) or because the servers had featurea removed (GTA5 on PS3) and I wouldn't go get them if they became possible, because I don't think that's legit to use external servers. And by your logic is totally ok to get GTA5 bounty trophy on ps3 if you get someone to put the bounty on you, right? After all, those hackers are just allowing you to do something that R* took out from the online part of the game..

 

It's open, not public.. also, what's the DNS that you need to use to acess it? After all this time, I still didn't saw that.. so, public? (I did a little google and think that I found the DNS at reddit, if it's that one, but the whole point was that I did the search after knowing what to look for and even there the DNS was just posted recently...). 

 

And apparently they made some changes that go strictly against how Demon's Souls was intended to run because they wanted (no lvl restriction on match making? Nice one!).

This post is quite literally cancerous, i never said that hackers allowing people to unlock the bounty trophy on GTA V is ok, although i do believe that its bullshit from Rockstar's part to allow that feature to exist on PS4 but not PS3, if hackers can still do that shit than its quite literally hurting the people who want play legit (DRM on PC is the same). So, you said and i quote: "

 

1 hour ago, Han_the_Dragon said:

"Keeping the game alive" is not the point here.. it's ok if they use the servers to keep the game alive so that fans can continue to have fun in it, it just shouldn't be allowed to use it for trophies and if what MMDE said is true and the servers just allow for a fraction of the stuff that the original server did, then they are modded servers to work how those who built it wanted them to work, and don't work like the original server did.. this was half of my original point.. those who build if can mod it however they see fit... (the other point is that there's no valid reason to allow it because the platinum can be earned legitly offline, and in quite a fast way using that platinum guide..)

"

And i quote: "

1 hour ago, Han_the_Dragon said:

it just shouldn't be allowed to use it for trophies

"

This is what bothers you, that people will be able to skip the grind just like they used to back in the day if people can drop them what they need, it doesn't bother you that you can play online, it just bugs you that people can use this server to get the trophies in quite a legit way since it was used when the servers were up. Thats all what its about, nothing else. you want people to give up while grinding so you can keep trophies you unlocked rare. You don't care about the game and are ready to sacrifice one of the most important games in PlayStation 3's history and quite literally gaming as a whole online modes to do so. I am disgusted, and i am very very triggered at this point so if you can please not reply to my post anymore, i am ready to hear anyone's opinion except yours at this point, since you came here you never made any solid point and all your arguments have been reaching or based on other people's, so please stop and leave. 

[TheLakota]

@Soufwar less arguing, more GTA IV online!

 

You will not make anyway headway here as it's already been discussed ad nauseam. 

[MMDE]

@Soufwar If the server has no level restriction, that's definitely not how the original game worked. It means a soul level 720 can join you from after you beat 1-1.