Earning Trophies on 3rd Party, Independently Revived PSN Game Servers

[DaivRules]

1 minute ago, Rick_Sanchez said:

He said if it's modified to auto unlock the trophy without doing the requirements it's flaggable.

 

What I'm asking about is if it's modified to take less time to do the requirements such as an XP boost. Technically, its modified but you still did the requirements.

 

Thats not what he said. “If it's updated to allow trophies to unlock without doing the requirements then you'll get flagged.” There is no word “auto” in there. We don’t already need to be twisting words that were typed barely an hour ago. 

 

I think in your hypothetical, the flagging executors will have to look at that case and decide if it’s legit or not. Everyone is acting like every game that had a closed server is opening tomorrow and every one is modified (thus referring to Slys point about not meeting requirements) in which case they would be legit flags.

 

In reality, one, possibly two games, maybe a year, *might* have private servers. It’ll be a snails pace that will be easy to discern and decide as it happens.

1 minute ago, B1rvine said:

 

@DaivRules

 

How is it ignorant to go against Sony’s ToS? 

 

Please quote where this is located in the ToS. 

[Rick_Sanchez]

1 minute ago, DaivRules said:

 

Thats not what he said. “If it's updated to allow trophies to unlock without doing the requirements then you'll get flagged.” There is no word “auto” in there. We don’t already need to be twisting words that were typed barely an hour ago. 

 

I think in your hypothetical, the flagging executors will have to look at that case and decide if it’s legit or not. Everyone is acting like every game that had a closed server is opening tomorrow and every one is modified (thus referring to Slys point about not meeting requirements) in which case they would be legit flags.

 

In reality, one, possibly two games, maybe a year, *might* have private servers. It’ll be a snails pace that will be easy to discern and decide as it happens.

I used auto unlock to shorten what he said as that's how I interpreted what he meant because to me what he said and auto unlock are essentially the same thing.

 

I'm just pointing out a potential loop hole abuse that we need to close before it gets out of hand. With just the phrase "if it's updated to allow trophies to unlock without doing the requirements then you'll get flagged." can have the loop hole in FEAR 2 of 500% XP is okay since technically the legit requirement was met but at a faster pace.

[ProfBambam55]

Just now, B1rvine said:

@ProfBambam55

 

We should look at what if’s because if we dont, then we may be in a situation later where a new situation would cause the new rule and the current rule to be contradictory to each other. 

 

@DaivRules

 

How is it ignorant to go against Sony’s ToS? 

we can cross that bridge when we get there if we ever do...if this thread has proven anything it is that we will over-analyze the situations as they come up...this is new territory with lots of unknowns and definitely merits monitoring...shall we just take it one step at a time for now?...

[Zolkovo]

My stance has been tentative on this but a decision has been made and for now we'll all have to accept it. As @DaivRules pointed out, we're not going to have a sudden influx of old games suddenly achievable over night and most of you won't even get a chance to play the games you actually had in mind during this discussion.

 

4 minutes ago, ProfBambam55 said:

...shall we just take it one step at a time for now?...

 

Well said.

[Potent_Delusions]

1 hour ago, dj_helyx said:

 

I'll do some more testing before committing to doing this on my primary profile. If all looks good, then I'll be playing Bulletstorm this weekend.

 

Enjoy, my friend. It'll feel good to see some trophies pop on your TV that we never thought would pop up on a television screen ever again!

 

1 hour ago, Sly Ripper said:

I don't see an issue with this currently but use it at your own risk. If it's updated to allow trophies to unlock without doing the requirements then you'll get flagged.

 

You sir, are a gentleman. We appreciate this more than words can express, I feel I speak for most of the community here.

 

1 hour ago, Dark said:

 

Found it pretty damn funny how your reply got 7+ rep barely within a minute, but anyway this is good news to myself and what appears to be the majority of people posting in here. 

 

What games you got your eyes on doing once this becomes an established thing? 

Edited March 15, 2018 by Potent_Delusions

[Orphioon]

At first i was on the anti-server side, but after i thought about the psychology of trophy cheaters i now lean in support.

A trophy hacker would just CFW their PS3 and unlock the trophies and change the timestamps to look legit, they don't need these replica servers, they already have all the tools available to unlock these trophies and make them look legit.

 

A lot of these worries seem to be about these trophy hunters that already have a very efficient system to earn these trophies, would just downgrade to having to setup their own private servers with modified exp and trophy unlocking systems so they could pop the trophies much slower and in a completely unnecessary way (to them).

 

This seems to only benefit the legitimate trophy hunters, these are the people who actually want to enter these servers and earn the trophies as all the other trophy hunters have in the past, the hackers already can do this extremely easily, they don't need the servers.

Edited March 15, 2018 by Orphioon

[Yuichiro-Akuhei]

I'm curious what the limits are for getting a server back up again, I'm sure not everything would possible, anyway I would love to see a good running sever on guitar hero hits, EndWar, Homefront, ufc, Socom, f.e.a.r, resistance 2 and many more. And does something like this not cost much money, because you need to let it run 24/7? 

 

[SWilhelmStorck]

I can't believe how Bulletstorm has been revived from the dead, I was sure of that when servers went black it would be all over... Personally i'm interested in the future development of cases such as this, and i'm going to cross my fingers for someone to bring back or find a way for others to bring back the White Knight Chronicles 2 servers ?

[OJ9999vr]

First of all i'm totally for earning trophies on alternate servers if they function as close as possible to the original.

Some things to keep in mind:

1. There will be a limited number of playable games, unless there's a bunch of people able to host and set up what's necessary.
2. Not all online functions may function, such as events and possibly uploading and downloading user created levels.
3. Hackers and moders could access and play the servers just like before. If trophies should pop this way don't sync them, then delete the data.
4. Servers may be modded.

To add a bit to 2 and 4 if it's accepted, it may be possible to "revive" ended events, but that's a very "grey" area. Meaning even though online could be possible again, there will most definitely still be unattainable trophies.

[ExHaseo]

I hope we get official word soon. I know there's a lot of people waiting to see if they'll be able to play Bulletstorm or not.

 

Personally, if a game I like gets it's service cut before I get the online trophies, and a fan server goes up, I'm going to play on it. Even if it's ruled that it's against the rules here, I'll just get removed from the leaderboards. The leaderboards aren't that big of a deal, and I'll know that I put in the work to earn the trophies, same as the people who got them before the servers got closed.

[Sergen]

3 minutes ago, ExHaseo said:

I hope we get official word soon. I know there's a lot of people waiting to see if they'll be able to play Bulletstorm or not.

 

Personally, if a game I like gets it's service cut before I get the online trophies, and a fan server goes up, I'm going to play on it. Even if it's ruled that it's against the rules here, I'll just get removed from the leaderboards. The leaderboards aren't that big of a deal, and I'll know that I put in the work to earn the trophies, same as the people who got them before the servers got closed.

 

The official word is here: 

Play the game and do the trophies legitimately and you should have no problem. But I do recommend in this situation currently, still find ways to prove yourself considering your time stamps would be after the servers were shut down, so initially people would be suspicious. It's best to take pictures or make videos of yourself playing the game and getting the trophies legitimately if you ever play on a revived server. 

Edited March 15, 2018 by Sergen

[ExHaseo]

1 minute ago, Sergen said:

 

The official word is here: 

Play the game and do the trophies legitimately and you should have no problem. But I do recommend in this situation currently, still find ways to prove yourself considering your time stamps would be after the servers were shut down, so initially people would be suspicious. It's best to take pictures or make videos of yourself playing the game and getting the trophies legitimately if you ever play on a revived server. 

Thanks! I missed it. This thread was going too fast. x_x

[NeM2k2]

Hey guys. So I wrote Gonespy. I did it because I love Bulletstorm and hated that its platinum and DLC trophies were out of my reach. I wanted to see if I could revive this one game as a personal project, and share what I had done so anyone would be able to do it.

 

It's great to see so much discussion around this. I just wanted to add my 2c to some things I've read from this entertaining thread.

 

Autopopping of trophies is not a concern for Bulletstorm. Nothing the server can or could do would autopop any trophies as far as I can tell. There are still unknowns around the 200 challenges trophy as I haven't tried to see how popping that one works.

 

I can't promise that for other games, if the source code is altered to support them. However, why would you jump through so many hoops to autopop trophies with a custom server when you could just mod your profile carefully with so much less effort?

 

I'm not sure what I can do to alleviate the concerns people have with Gonespy. I could close-source the code but then people might be concerned that it is doing nefarious things behind the scenes eg. running a bitcoin miner or harvesting personal info.

 

The last thing I want to do is piss off the leaderboard sites. I've already been untracked on trueachievements thanks to their "guilty until proven innocent" policy doing unconventional things unlocking achievements in GFWL games and I'd prefer to retain my trophy tracking at least (leaderboards I don't really care about)

[DaivRules]

2 minutes ago, NeM2k2 said:

Hey guys. So I wrote Gonespy. I did it because I love Bulletstorm and hated that its platinum and DLC trophies were out of my reach. I wanted to see if I could revive this one game as a personal project, and share what I had done so anyone would be able to do it.

 

It's great to see so much discussion around this. I just wanted to add my 2c to some things I've read from this entertaining thread.

 

Autopopping of trophies is not a concern for Bulletstorm. Nothing the server can or could do would autopop any trophies as far as I can tell. There are still unknowns around the 200 challenges trophy as I haven't tried to see how popping that one works.

 

I can't promise that for other games, if the source code is altered to support them. However, why would you jump through so many hoops to autopop trophies with a custom server when you could just mod your profile carefully with so much less effort?

 

I'm not sure what I can do to alleviate the concerns people have with Gonespy. I could close-source the code but then people might be concerned that it is doing nefarious things behind the scenes eg. running a bitcoin miner or harvesting personal info.

 

The last thing I want to do is piss off the leaderboard sites. I've already been untracked on trueachievements thanks to their "guilty until proven innocent" policy doing unconventional things unlocking achievements in GFWL games and I'd prefer to retain my trophy tracking at least (leaderboards I don't really care about)

 

Thanks for chiming in. I hope our community left you with a good impression and thanks for all the work you put in. I hope it sets the standards for future projects to follow. 

[BlindMango]

3 hours ago, Sergen said:

But I have to say thank you to @Sly Ripper for leaving your opinion in this matter. I think based on this, @BlindMango will be able to update the rules accordingly to inform people that the use of a 3rd party independently revived game server to fulfil the requirements for the trophies by legitimately performing the actions that trigger trophies should be allowed, as long as none of the trophies within that server were modded. 

 

It's gonna take a few days to get it all in order, but it should be added in a few days  

 

I have added Jak & Daxter as an example under "in-game cheat codes" as well

 

Edited March 15, 2018 by BlindMango

[ProfBambam55]

17 minutes ago, NeM2k2 said:

I wrote Gonespy because I love Bulletstorm...I wanted to share what I had done so anyone would be able to do it...

honestly, having people that think like this is exactly the kind of thing that makes this community of gamers awesome...once again, congrats on making it work...an impressive feat and a very interesting and innovative project to undertake...hopefully you won't get too overwhelmed by the "please do this game next" requests that are likely headed your way...haha...cheers...

 

side note: I noticed in your YouTube video that you were quite good at the game...must've been pretty nerve racking...if you had died on like the first grunt that could've been pretty embarrassing, aye?...haha...

Edited March 15, 2018 by ProfBambam55

[Orphioon]

18 minutes ago, NeM2k2 said:

Hey guys. So I wrote Gonespy. I did it because I love Bulletstorm and hated that its platinum and DLC trophies were out of my reach. I wanted to see if I could revive this one game as a personal project, and share what I had done so anyone would be able to do it.

 

It's great to see so much discussion around this. I just wanted to add my 2c to some things I've read from this entertaining thread.

 

Autopopping of trophies is not a concern for Bulletstorm. Nothing the server can or could do would autopop any trophies as far as I can tell. There are still unknowns around the 200 challenges trophy as I haven't tried to see how popping that one works.

 

I can't promise that for other games, if the source code is altered to support them. However, why would you jump through so many hoops to autopop trophies with a custom server when you could just mod your profile carefully with so much less effort?

 

I'm not sure what I can do to alleviate the concerns people have with Gonespy. I could close-source the code but then people might be concerned that it is doing nefarious things behind the scenes eg. running a bitcoin miner or harvesting personal info.

 

The last thing I want to do is piss off the leaderboard sites. I've already been untracked on trueachievements thanks to their "guilty until proven innocent" policy doing unconventional things unlocking achievements in GFWL games and I'd prefer to retain my trophy tracking at least (leaderboards I don't really care about)

 

I think this is fantastic and i hope your work inspires others to create fanmade severs for other closed games.

 

Not that i just finally want the overlord 2 plat or anything...

[NeM2k2]

8 minutes ago, ProfBambam55 said:

honestly, having people that think like this is exactly the kind of thing that makes this community of gamers awesome...once again, congrats on making it work...an impressive feat and a very interesting and innovative project to undertake...hopefully you won't get too overwhelmed by the "please do this game next" requests that are likely headed your way...haha...cheers...

 

side note: I noticed in your YouTube video that you were quite good at the game...must've been pretty nerve racking...if you had died on like the first grunt that could've been pretty embarrassing, aye?...haha...

Yeah, the requests have already started! I'd love to add support for many games, but I don't own many ex-Gamespy games and I live in a country where it's not always easy to locate multiple copies of the same game for testing. Maybe I should set up a patreon or something so people can donate so I can buy the copies of the games required to test them. Or they can send me copies or something

 

Hah! You think I was good? I was terrible! I hadn't played in years since I 100%ed the game on GFWL and 360. Looking forward to doing the remastered versions too.

Edited March 15, 2018 by NeM2k2

[MMDE]

24 minutes ago, NeM2k2 said:

Hey guys. So I wrote Gonespy. I did it because I love Bulletstorm and hated that its platinum and DLC trophies were out of my reach. I wanted to see if I could revive this one game as a personal project, and share what I had done so anyone would be able to do it.

 

It's great to see so much discussion around this. I just wanted to add my 2c to some things I've read from this entertaining thread.

 

Autopopping of trophies is not a concern for Bulletstorm. Nothing the server can or could do would autopop any trophies as far as I can tell. There are still unknowns around the 200 challenges trophy as I haven't tried to see how popping that one works.

 

I can't promise that for other games, if the source code is altered to support them. However, why would you jump through so many hoops to autopop trophies with a custom server when you could just mod your profile carefully with so much less effort?

 

I'm not sure what I can do to alleviate the concerns people have with Gonespy. I could close-source the code but then people might be concerned that it is doing nefarious things behind the scenes eg. running a bitcoin miner or harvesting personal info.

 

The last thing I want to do is piss off the leaderboard sites. I've already been untracked on trueachievements thanks to their "guilty until proven innocent" policy doing unconventional things unlocking achievements in GFWL games and I'd prefer to retain my trophy tracking at least (leaderboards I don't really care about)

 

Because you can actually get caught modding your profile too.  But take trophies like KZ2's Valor trophies, where you get a trophy based on your leaderboard rank for that week, imagine being the only one on your own server. Yeah, that doesn't seem entirely like it should be. Same thing with Rayman Legends. And the way it works with KZ2 is that the server actually saves that you've earned the trophy, so it can be auto popped again later, so if the server remembers that you've earned the trophy, you can always pop it later. That means one could just save that someone has earned it on the sever side and they get the trophy, or just send this to the game and the trophy will pop. And if you wonder, people have already done this kind of stuff for other games to unlock trophies and other things in-game.

Edited March 15, 2018 by MMDE

[RNumbers]

4 minutes ago, NeM2k2 said:

Yeah, the requests have already started! I'd love to add support for many games, but I don't own many ex-Gamespy games and I live in a country where it's not always easy to locate multiple copies of the same game for testing. Maybe I should set up a patreon or something so people can donate so I can buy the copies of the games required to test them. Or they can send me copies or something

 

Hah! You think I was good? I was terrible! I hadn't played in years since I 100%ed the game on GFWL and 360. Looking forward to doing the remastered versions too.

 

Out of curiosity, what are the limitations on what can be brought back and what can't? You mentioned a 200 challenges trophy being in question, so it seems there are some constraints. I'd be interested in understanding more as it might put some of the concerns people have to rest.

 

Personally, I think what you're doing is awesome, and I would be happy to support financially just on principle (I'll likely never play Bulletstorm and don't know what else people are requesting). If you do end up with a Patreon or something similar, please post it somewhere. Thanks.

[A12]

I'm not reading through this whole mess, so if it's been posted already idgaf.

Section 3: COMMUNITY CODE OF CONDUCT

• You may not use, make, or distribute unauthorized software or hardware, including Non-Licensed Peripherals and cheat code software or devices that circumvent any security features or limitations included on any software or devices, in conjunction with PSN Services, or take or use any data from PSN Services to design, develop or update unauthorized software or hardware.
• You may not modify or attempt to modify the online client, disc, save file, server, client-server communication, or other parts of any game title, or content.

E.G. No you aren't supposed to connect to some random persons privately written software thru a PlayStation or PSN.

[MMDE]

2 minutes ago, A12 said:

I'm not reading through this whole mess, so if it's been posted already idgaf.

Section 3: COMMUNITY CODE OF CONDUCT

• You may not use, make, or distribute unauthorized software or hardware, including Non-Licensed Peripherals and cheat code software or devices that circumvent any security features or limitations included on any software or devices, in conjunction with PSN Services, or take or use any data from PSN Services to design, develop or update unauthorized software or hardware.
• You may not modify or attempt to modify the online client, disc, save file, server, client-server communication, or other parts of any game title, or content.

E.G. No you aren't supposed to connect to some random persons privately written software thru a PlayStation or PSN.

 

This is true, because this is what one would call modding.

[NeM2k2]

Just now, RNumbers said:

 

Out of curiosity, what are the limitations on what can be brought back and what can't? You mentioned a 200 challenges trophy being in question, so it seems there are some constraints. I'd be interested in understanding more as it might put some of the concerns people have to rest.

 

Personally, I think what you're doing is awesome, and I would be happy to support financially just on principle (I'll likely never play Bulletstorm and don't know what else people are requesting). If you do end up with a Patreon or something similar, please post it somewhere. Thanks.

 

I haven't looked at the Gamespy code or even tried with other games since I got Bulletstorm working. Bulletstorm was a perfect test case because the private matches are peer-to-peer, your XP/rank isn't stored on the server, and most of the trophies aren't based on stats from the server. I'm not 100% sure what is possible or impossible. I suspect anything involving dedicated servers might be extremely difficult or impossible.

 

The 200 challenges might be tracked server-side - I don't know yet. When you look at the Statistics section in-game, it doesn't load the statistics that are tracked server-side (challenges being one of them). So I don't know if your progress towards 200 challenges is based on a hidden counter in your game date, or if it's based on the server-side statistic. If it's based on server-side, then it does mean maybe you could mod the server to autopop that trophy (something I don't condone or encourage). Hopefully someone can try doing the 200 tracking it themselves and see if it pops.

[Vergil]

16 minutes ago, NeM2k2 said:

Yeah, the requests have already started! I'd love to add support for many games, but I don't own many ex-Gamespy games and I live in a country where it's not always easy to locate multiple copies of the same game for testing. Maybe I should set up a patreon or something so people can donate so I can buy the copies of the games required to test them. Or they can send me copies or something

 

Hah! You think I was good? I was terrible! I hadn't played in years since I 100%ed the game on GFWL and 360. Looking forward to doing the remastered versions too.

Any chance for Motorstorm pacific rift? getting that 100% would be a dream!

 

Sorry if silly question

 

 

[Afro_Gear]

3 minutes ago, A12 said:

You may not modify or attempt to modify the online client, disc, save file, server, client-server communication, or other parts of any game title, or content.

 

I'm no attorney or technician for that matter but I don't believe this is modifying the server. It's creating a new one and connecting to it. No, @NeM2k2?