Vita CFW users should be banned?

[Champ147]

Not to try to throw some wrench into this whole conversation but I have a question. Since we are talking about the Vita, could it be possible that these people were able to buy these games through their PS3, download them onto said PS3, transfer them into a portable hard drive of some such, then install said game on the Vita off the hard drive? 

 

PS3 allows players to have multiple accounts and it's possible that those players set up accounts in different regions. This would allow that player to download digital only games from any said regions that they have accounts for. PS3 also allows you to download any Vita title to its hard drive, even those Vita only games. And then just do as I mentioned above and wouldn't that make it possible for let's say a USA Vita game to make its way into a EU region Vita? 

[B1rvine]

Just now, DaivRules said:

How would you compare your concept of opportunity to limited run physical prints with unique trophy sets? Should those be banned as well since not everyone has the same opportunity to access them?

 

4 minutes ago, Sergen said:

snip

 

@DaivRules Those copies could be sold / resold. Also, when these games would be announced, everyone would have an equal opportunity to order first etc. Slightly different than never being available without use of banned software. Situations created by Sony shouldn't be undone.

 

Also @Sergen the rules were crystal clear prohibiting Gonespy before PSNP changed them, after the #campaign showed popular support. And I'd argue since I'm on a Mac, Gonespy is not available for me. Yeah, I know I can go buy a PC, but I shouldn't have to.  The only thing I should need is my playstation, games, and Sony supported peripherals. If I made a server for a different game that only worked on Linux (0.68% OS market share) that the source was publicly available for, would that be okay then? Either way you answer that is just sort of too slippery slope for me, since eventually we'll get to a situation further down the rabbit hole, like this one.

 

@both of you but more daiv: As I attempted to point out in the Gonespy thread, I'm thinking of a broader issue that needs solved, rather than the specific thread topic of debate.  For purposes of a leaderboard (not fun) there needs to be a logical premise which all rules are built around. That way, when new situations arise, theres a specific black and white area where they already fall. PSNP will make a decision here, and if they do allow CFW Vita's (for this purpose), they're changing the rules (again), and if they don't allow CFW Vitas, then they're cherry picking things.  Popular demand shouldn't be a reason to change an established issue because then there's no consistency to what will or won't be changed. Last time, most of you said "my hypothetical what-ifs" wouldn't happen... yet, here we are again, clearly confirming the need for specific rules in place, that shouldn't be changed.

 

Anyway, I'm out of this discussion.

[Sergen]

1 minute ago, B1rvine said:

 

 

@DaivRules Those copies could be sold / resold. Also, when these games would be announced, everyone would have an equal opportunity to order first etc. Slightly different than never being available without use of banned software. Situations created by Sony shouldn't be undone.

 

Also @Sergen the rules were crystal clear prohibiting Gonespy before PSNP changed them, after the #campaign showed popular support. And I'd argue since I'm on a Mac, Gonespy is not available for me. Yeah, I know I can go buy a PC, but I shouldn't have to.  The only thing I should need is my playstation, games, and Sony supported peripherals. If I made a server for a different game that only worked on Linux (0.68% OS market share) that the source was publicly available for, would that be okay then? Either way you answer that is just sort of too slippery slope for me, since eventually we'll get to a situation further down the rabbit hole, like this one.

 

@both of you but more daiv: As I attempted to point out in the Gonespy thread, I'm thinking of a broader issue that needs solved, rather than the specific thread topic of debate.  For purposes of a leaderboard (not fun) there needs to be a logical premise which all rules are built around. That way, when new situations arise, theres a specific black and white area where they already fall. PSNP will make a decision here, and if they do allow CFW Vita's (for this purpose), they're changing the rules (again), and if they don't allow CFW Vitas, then they're cherry picking things.  Popular demand shouldn't be a reason to change an established issue because then there's no consistency to what will or won't be changed. Last time, most of you said "my hypothetical what-ifs" wouldn't happen... yet, here we are again, clearly confirming the need for specific rules in place, that shouldn't be changed.

 

Anyway, I'm out of this discussion.

 

Everyone can get Windows, Linux or a Mac if they want and have the money for it, so it's not an unfair advantage for Gonespy to only be compatible with one operating system. Nobody even tried it for Mac or Linux, so maybe it works with those as well, but people who got it to work have all done it on Windows 7 or above. Aside from that, some trophies require you to use 4 controllers locally and not everyone has 4 controllers or feels like they want to buy 4 controllers to do a single trophy, so does that mean we should flag everyone who gets trophies that require 4 controllers as it's not something everyone has access to? 

 

Gonespy isn't using custom firmware on a console or using modded lobbies to auto-unlock trophies, so I'm unsure what rule on this website prohibited using it before I made my thread. The rules should be clear to everyone who reads them. Gonespy is opensource and not run by one person who can pick and choose who connects to it and so on, everyone has the opportunity to host themselves so everyone has an equal chance to legitimately earn those trophies. 

 

It's been a clear rule that using custom firmware on a console isn't allowed for earning trophies, so if it is evident that those people used it on their vita to get trophies for those games, they will be flagged, but I think more research into those games might need to be done and the people who did the trophies should be asked about it to see how they could explain it.  

[Shadiochao]

17 minutes ago, Champ147 said:

Not to try to throw some wrench into this whole conversation but I have a question. Since we are talking about the Vita, could it be possible that these people were able to buy these games through their PS3, download them onto said PS3, transfer them into a portable hard drive of some such, then install said game on the Vita off the hard drive?

 

No. The Vita won't allow you to play any games that don't belong to the account that's currently logged in. If you manage to get them onto the system, you'll just get an error message if you try to play them.

 

Playing another account's digital games works on PS3 and PS4 because the playing privileges can be shared among all the users. The Vita only allows one user at a time, so there's none of that here.

[Champ147]

14 minutes ago, Shadiochao said:

 

No. The Vita won't allow you to play any games that don't belong to the account that's currently logged in. If you manage to get them onto the system, you'll just get an error message if you try to play them.

 

Playing another account's digital games works on PS3 and PS4 because the playing privileges can be shared among all the users. The Vita only allows one user at a time, so there's none of that here.

Thanks for clearing that up. So then if the games on Vita are account locked and you somehow play a digital only game from a region your Vita has no access to? Yea, to me it sounds like some kind of system hack. I could be wrong though. Seeing as there is no simple clarification as to how they got these trophies. My vote is to simply ask these people how they got said trophies. If they don't have a good answer, and by good answer I mean giving a honest legit way to get said game, then they should be removed from the leader boards as the rules clearly state. Otherwise if they do have a good valid legit way of getting them, then they are all good and move on. 

Edited March 29, 2018 by Champ147

[NaRayquaza]

2 hours ago, Sergen said:

 

I think a way to control this is to ask the person for evidence showing that they own the game, either physically or digitally. If it was a one-off store update then the game might stay on their download list, but with the Movie Night game, the DLC was actually taken away from their download lists, but Ptkush still has the game update file with the mode available to him, or so I think. But aside from that, I think vita CFW can't be removed without removing the game, so if the game is on their vita, but they show all their apps to show that nothing like Henkaku is on the vita then maybe that would also be a fair way to judge. It should also only take one person proving it to get everyone else off the hook, as long as their time stamps are legit then nothing would have been stopping them from all doing the same thing. Remember people, if the game isn't on your list but you want to report them, you could always message @MMDE and @grimydawg to let them know. 

Wrong, you need to activate it every time you turn on your console, or install ENSO HENkaku to keep it even after rebooting, but you can still disable it and keep everything. Everyone could simply send a "clean" screenshot showing only their game icons without CFW-related apps, but it's also possible to change those apps' icons to cover them.

Edited March 29, 2018 by NaRayquaza

[Kittens Are Awesome]

 

11 hours ago, Shadiochao said:

 

No. The Vita won't allow you to play any games that don't belong to the account that's currently logged in. If you manage to get them onto the system, you'll just get an error message if you try to play them.

 

Playing another account's digital games works on PS3 and PS4 because the playing privileges can be shared among all the users. The Vita only allows one user at a time, so there's none of that here.

 

That's correct. I used my ps3 to download a dlc that I had bought on an alternate accout. I then used the usb cable to transfer the file to my vita. As soon as I tried to install the dlc, the vita stopped me and said it belonged to a different user and closed the install. Messed up.

Edited March 29, 2018 by Stevieboy

[dark69knight]

Totally agree they should got banned or flagged

 

there are no different doing CFW  on PS3 or VITA

[Smashero]

I have already pointed out similar thing here:

So those are clear examples of using Henkaku. since on your main account on PSV you can not start a digital game from another region.

You need to have: modified PSV (CFW 3.60->Henkaku) and a *.vpk file of the game. So this is clear PIRACY.

So why those users mentioned in the quoted topic are still on the leaderboard? It is clear that "One Tap Hero" does not have a physical release, so it is CFW.

Another example: "Taco Master" been plated on some EU accounts while it is NA digital only game. Users with such titles shall be removed from LB IMO.

 

So has to be clearly stated: is it allowed or not?

On one hand: super! I can go up in LB super quickly due to easy titles from other regions!

On the other - this is same for me like using CFW on PS3 or saves: pure cheating and shall be banned.

 

Other funny thing:

https://psnprofiles.com/100-club/1993-jak-ii

https://psnprofiles.com/100-club/1994-jak-3

 

Top time ~30 secs -> Henkaku, autopopping trophies. I reported a lot of times like this for "Wipeout 2048", users were removed from LBs.

This one I can not report, I do not own the game. But this user is still there. It is not internal debug mode in Jak 2/3, no, it does not working so well like on PS4. 

 

For your consideration.

 

 

9 hours ago, ScooloV said:

There are plenty of people who earned let say 20 japanese vita novel in 1-2 weeks, which is really questionable since that games are really hard to get and are very expensive. Especially all of them in 1 week. But they can just buy them by giving their account login/password, so only way to catch it is with this region-locked digital titles.

 

Not on Sony consoles. You can't even change your PSN ID

 

They are super easy to get via online stores, they are expensive, yes, but used ones are a bit cheaper.

So you are gathering your "boosting" group, each one puts ~200$ per month in the pot (  ), you order games for ~800$ which equals to ~20 "games", your package arrives (while you are praying that it will not stuck in customs), start all your 5 vitas, open the walkthroughs in 5 different windows on 3 screens+tablet+phone and observe a trophy rain! Then send the games to the next one in the group. Last one is usually selling them or splits among the group.

More or less.

 

 

Edited March 29, 2018 by Smashero

[Satoshi Ookami]

12 minutes ago, Smashero said:

They are super easy to get via online stores, they are expensive, yes, but used ones are a bit cheaper.

So you are gathering your "boosting" group, each one puts ~200$ per month in the pot (  ), you order games for ~800$ which equals to ~20 "games", your package arrives (while you are praying that it will not stuck in customs), start all your 5 vitas, open the walkthroughs in 5 different windows on 3 screens+tablet+phone and observe a trophy rain! Then send the games to the next one in the group. Last one is usually selling them or splits among the group.

More or less.

Damned skippers.

[Bumperklever]

14 minutes ago, Smashero said:

Other funny thing:

https://psnprofiles.com/100-club/1993-jak-ii

https://psnprofiles.com/100-club/1994-jak-3

 

Top time ~30 secs -> Henkaku, autopopping trophies. I reported a lot of times like this for "Wipeout 2048", users were removed from LBs.

This one I can not report, I do not own the game. But this user is still there. It is not internal debug mode in Jak 2/3, no, it does not working so well like on PS4. 

 

Eh I guess it can be done right. First of all, I dont know what you mean by it does not work so well like on PS4. Do you mean lag or the different/ harder controller inputs due to the system(missing L3 for example)?

 

If its for the lag then I dont think the score is legit. Maybe if this guy found some lagfree spot were the inputs can then be more easily done.

 

Inputs however are easy to go around since you can just buy a pstv and connect your real controller.

Edited March 29, 2018 by Bumperklever

[Smashero]

4 minutes ago, Satoshi Ookami said:

Damned skippers.

 

 Gomen'nasai... (via Google Translate)

 

 

2 minutes ago, Bumperklever said:

 

Eh I guess it can be done right. First of all, I dont know what you mean by it does not work so well like on PS4. Do you mean lag or the different/ harder controller inputs due to the system(missing L3 for example)?

 

If its for the lag then I dont think the score is legit. Maybe if this guy found some lagfree spot were the inputs can then be more easily done.

 

Inputs however are easy to go around since you can just buy a pstv and connect your real controller.

 

Nope, you can not. I already also mentioned that in related topic: Jak 2 and Jak 3 are not working with PSV TV - tested by myself.

 

It does not work like on PS4 since you still have to get the collectibles. It works more like on PS3 where you can not get plat in seconds, since you still have to grind for the collects -> 100% CFW.

Edited March 29, 2018 by Smashero

[Bumperklever]

4 minutes ago, Smashero said:

 

 Gomen'nasai... (via Google Translate)

 

 

 

Nope, you can not. I already also mentioned that in related topic: Jak 2 and Jak 3 are not working with PSV TV - tested by myself.

 

It does not work like on PS4 since you still have to get the collectibles. It works more like on PS3 where you can not get plat in seconds, since you still have to grind for the collects -> 100% CFW.

 

The I did say nothing :3 *zipped*

[MMDE]

3 hours ago, B1rvine said:

Also @Sergen the rules were crystal clear prohibiting Gonespy before PSNP changed them, after the #campaign showed popular support. And I'd argue since I'm on a Mac, Gonespy is not available for me. Yeah, I know I can go buy a PC, but I shouldn't have to.  The only thing I should need is my playstation, games, and Sony supported peripherals. If I made a server for a different game that only worked on Linux (0.68% OS market share) that the source was publicly available for, would that be okay then? Either way you answer that is just sort of too slippery slope for me, since eventually we'll get to a situation further down the rabbit hole, like this one.

 

Do you actually need Windows? I'm not entirely sure you actually do. Most of it seems to be Java. Java can be run on any OS that has a compatible version of the JVM, which you of course have available on Mac. You can even compile it yourself.

 

https://github.com/gonespy/bstormps3/blob/master/pom.xml

 

Maven pom, so you can easily set up the project. Seems it requires Java IDE 1.8 (compiler) AKA Java 8 to run.

 

This seems to be where the main method is:

https://github.com/gonespy/bstormps3/blob/master/src/main/java/com/gonespy/bstormps3/service/RunAllServices.java

 

So yeah, even if it wasn't cross platform because of JVM, you should have been able to compile it on Mac just fine AFAIK. Maybe there's some external non-Java code compiled programs or code you run that is only meant for Windows? I don't know.

Edited March 29, 2018 by MMDE

[VanDeaM]

I can't even think of the words to describe the level of stupidity I would need, to log into my PSN account on any hacked system and risk all of the time and money I've spent on my account getting banned. Yes I know nobody's been banned yet, but that has the potential to change at any moment.

Edited March 29, 2018 by VanDeaM

[MMDE]

7 hours ago, NaRayquaza said:

It doesn't matter if you have a CFW on your console as long you don't ruin the fun to other players. You want modz on GTA V even on PS3? Fine, but don't be a dick online, do it offline and, if you want to play online, do it legit. You want the undub version of some games because you hate english voices? Why should it be a problem for someone?

 

CFWs are "bad" because if you pirate your games Sony won't earn money anymore (I said Sony, but it is the same for Nintendo, Steam), that's why they aren't allowed on consoles, even if you are actually buying the games, and I can understand that. But come on, this WILL NOT stop piracy.

Let's say I am using a CFW and I get banned. I'll lose all the games I bought, right? What if I say I'll format my system (or buy a new one if it is locked too) without going online and I'll start pirating again?

 

But no, we aren't talking about piracy here. It seems no one cares about it here, all I am seeing here is "Dudes with CFW can earn Trophies I can't earn so they should get banned". Let me ask this then: what if those dudes never synced their Trophies? Would you still care?

 

We aren't talking about piracy here? Do you think they paid for the game? Is it even possible to pay for it? And secondly, you'd have to run CFW to even play it, so that's earning trophies that would otherwise not be possible without CFW.

Edited March 29, 2018 by MMDE

[MMDE]

3 hours ago, Sergen said:

Gonespy isn't using custom firmware on a console or using modded lobbies to auto-unlock trophies, so I'm unsure what rule on this website prohibited using it before I made my thread.

 

It was prohibited before you made the thread. People have been banned for similar projects, more nefarious types of emulated servers that would award you stuff in-game. In other words, please don't spread this message, because it's not true, and I've told you since the first time you PM'd me about it that it wasn't wanted.

[ArmoredSnowman]

11 hours ago, ScooloV said:

Hello there,

 

I'm sorta fan of fighting games and already platted/100% all Guilty Gear games

 

And of course I couldn't 100% for this game https://psnprofiles.com/trophies/1893-guilty-gear-xx-λ-core-plus-r because it was NEVER released in EU region. As you may know since Vita release day Sony didn't allow to run several accounts on one console, so if the game is not in your PS Store or has physical realease - that means you can't achieve any trophies in that game.

Last week on our local russian trophy hunting website I saw someone actually getting trophies in that game. That was obvious done via CFW, and I was looking for how many people actually synced their CFW trophies (who are instantly banned on this site, if someone uses CFW in PS3 for unlocking trophies), and here are some results:

 

A lot of EU players for GGXXAC+R

https://psnprofiles.com/game-leaderboard/1893-guilty-gear-xx-λ-core-plus-r?page=222

 

Also some US only digital titles:

https://psnprofiles.com/game-leaderboard/5921-dying-reborn?page=17

 

And etc, you can find by yourself (there are actually a lot of them especially in some JP/AS only games).

 

You can say that there are tons of CFW users on PS3 and noone gets banned. Well, that's right, because there is no way to know at all how someone got his game via torrent or bought it, cause there is possibility to earn trophies in games, bought on other region accounts. But for Vita (and only for it), earning trophy in digital-only game never released in account's region - that's 100% proof of this user having a CFW.

 

I wrote to MMDE and BlindMango and didn't get any answer, so I want to ask other forum users:

 

What is YOUR opinion about this situation? Should they get banned, or flagged, or just let them be?

Technically there was a way to do multi accounts on Vita, but it's complicated. If these users aren't hacking trophies, why should it matter if they're using regions not available to them? Yes, they'd be pirating, but does it affect the site? No. 

[Smashero]

4 minutes ago, ArmoredSquirreXD said:

Technically there was a way to do multi accounts on Vita, but it's complicated. If these users aren't hacking trophies, why should it matter if they're using regions not available to them? Yes, they'd be pirating, but does it affect the site? No. 

 

Yes, you can use the multi accounts on PSV, but you have to format it everytime and you can't use games bought on one account on another one - and that's not the case.

 

Of course it affects the site, especially the Leaderboards.

5 hours ago, x1rh0 said:

So I am seeing lots of people with JP Visual Novels that take 30 mins to complete these days.... When I make the connection I think most of them are loading them with CFW...

So how thats fair? Hack your Vita + sideload 300 VNs from torrents = EPICWIN?

How can I compete with that?

 

Sounds like a perfect plan and I looked a bit closer to it...

Nope. Looks like VNs are not actually a popular target to be copied, so I was able to find 5-6 VNs and those are really old titles, done by everybody years ago (among ~300 "normal" games).

[ArmoredSnowman]

Just now, Smashero said:

 

Yes, you can use the multi accounts on PSV, but you have to format it everytime and you can't use games bought on one account on another one - and that's not the case.

 

Of course it affects the site, especially the Leaderboards.

No there was another way via CMA, but it's not been updated for 3.67. It's how I was able to play my Spyro games on Vita. Perhaps they used something similar, which would make them legit, but if they're really on cfw, but didn't hack, is it fair to flag them just for having access to the game? 

[WatashiHyp3r]

5 hours ago, cjshaitan said:

 

This is quite possibly true, there is also a rumour that many of the top players on the leaderboards bribe this site a large amount of money each month to retain their spots. I always just assumed they were probably wealthy Xbox gamers that didn't even own a Sony console just out for a laugh.

 

Hakoom obviously didn't pay up ?

[MMDE]

41 minutes ago, Ethan said:

 

Hakoom obviously didn't pay up 

 

Hakoom made some fuzz about a certain other trophy site being censored on this site, even in his PSN comment on his profile, so Sly asked Hakoom if he would rather have his account deleted then. Hakoom said yes, and was deleted. Besides, Hakoom has hidden his trophies now, as some kind of protest against people who has obviously bought trophies being on the leaderboards, even if he himself sells.  And we're talking actually selling trophies (do the trophies for them).

Edited March 29, 2018 by MMDE

[Smashero]

It 's getting a bit OT, don't you think?

 

Can we stick to the main issue, since IMHO it's quite an interesting one.

Edited March 29, 2018 by Smashero

[MMDE]

34 minutes ago, Smashero said:

It 's getting a bit OT, don't you think?

 

Can we stick to the main issue, since IMHO it's quite an interesting one.

 

Okay.

 

1. They need to run CFW to earn the trophies.
2. AFAIK, they are all pirated.
3. Competitive problems and encouraging CFW use and pirating.

Edited March 29, 2018 by MMDE

[PhoddaII]

Cfw users should not be banned. The should be executed.