Hatchet_Girl1990's Dispute

[MMDE 6,472]

2 minutes ago, ProfBambam55 said:

just to confirm...

 

playthrough 1...complete 2 out of 3 demon gates...attempt to get as many stray beads as possible aside from one that would ideally be before the final demon gate...finish playthrough...

 

new game plus...complete earning all beads...make sure to complete the same 2 demon gates as playthrough 1...finish third demon gate...

 

so basically i'm trying to see if the repeated demon gates will drop different beads on ng+...is that correct?...

 

 

 

We know beads carry over tbh, would just need to do the demon gates stuff.

[Beyondthegrave07 5,854]

8 minutes ago, ProfBambam55 said:

just to confirm...

 

playthrough 1...complete 2 out of 3 demon trials...attempt to get as many stray beads as possible aside from one that would ideally be before the final demon trial...finish playthrough...

 

new game plus...complete earning all beads...make sure to complete the same 2 demon trials as playthrough 1...finish third demon trial...

 

so basically i'm trying to see if the repeated demon trials will drop different beads on ng+ than on playthrough 1...is that correct?...

 

and also, with several hundred unpIayed games in my collection, I think I have a ton of games that could be considered "fantastic"...what I don't have much of is time...haha...

 

 

No, you want to fight the the one you missed in the previous playthrough first, so that you get that bead. Then, finish the rest of the beads before defeating the last two. However, we will already have our answer once you defeat the one you missed and get the stray bead. If "Out of the gate swinging" pops at that point, the NG+ progress does carry over and the flag sticks. If not, then it's possible to get all the beads before defeating the 3 demon trials. 

[ProfBambam55 1,887]

so I'm trying to see if the demon trials carry over for the trophy or if all 3 need to be done in a single playthrough?...

 

playthrough 1 : complete 2 out of 3 demon trials...

 

ng+ : complete demon trial not finished during playthrough 1...

 

yes?...

Edited April 14, 2018 by ProfBambam55

[jmartinez8089 25]

14 minutes ago, ProfBambam55 said:

so I'm trying to see if the demon trials carry over for the trophy or if all 3 need to be done in a single playthrough?...

 

playthrough 1 : complete 2 out of 3 demon trials...

 

ng+ : complete demon trial not finished during playthrough 1...

 

yes?...

 yes

[Superbuu3 2,700]

1 hour ago, ProfBambam55 said:

so I'm trying to see if the demon trials carry over for the trophy or if all 3 need to be done in a single playthrough?...

 

playthrough 1 : complete 2 out of 3 demon trials...

 

ng+ : complete demon trial not finished during playthrough 1...

 

yes?...

Dude its nice you wanna do that, but fair warning you can get the plat in one playthrough you'll basically be subjecting yourself to a second playthrough of a game you don't know if you like yet. In all fair ness it is pretty awesome, just play it a bit before you agree to do the research.

[ProfBambam55 1,887]

2 hours ago, Superbuu3 said:

Dude its nice you wanna do that, but fair warning you can get the plat in one playthrough you'll basically be subjecting yourself to a second playthrough of a game you don't know if you like yet. In all fair ness it is pretty awesome, just play it a bit before you agree to do the research.

in all honesty, I played it a bit in my twenties and didn't like it that much although I remember nearly nothing...i used to focus on gameplay only and skip through most of the story stuff and cutscenes...things have changed a lot though since those times with regards to how I play...i also now have the added bonus of having a more in-depth knowledge of japanese culture (lived in jpn for a decade) so I'm confident I'll have a completely different experience...

i'm in no rush to earn plats for games...might take me a few weeks to investigate so someone might update before I finish up but that's all good...it'll be no less fun...

Edited April 15, 2018 by ProfBambam55

[Sergen 4,485]

14 hours ago, MMDE said:

 

I would rather want to hear what the disputer have to say without it being tainted. What you did in another thread had the exact opposite effect, you tainted the dialogue when they adapted your argument once you brought it up. This just puts shade on the disputer. Was this what happened or did they just adapt it as an excuse once they learned about it?

 

 

Her saying this on her own instead of it being offered in the thread makes her case look way better.

 

Anyway, the point is that if you care about what really happened, you shouldn't explain it for them.

 

If it's possible to do it with time stamps like this, I think the person shouldn't be flagged regardless of whether they remember what happened or not. There are people who got trophies close to 10 years ago now who likely don't have the slightest clue as to how they earned some of the trophies, so to expect someone to explain trophies in clear detail years after they got the trophies is unfair if the time stamps are legitimately achievable without hacks. But aside from that, I think it's best not to lead the person on who made the dispute by showing that you're clearly keeping information away from them, you could sort this out in PMs without leaving public comments mentioning that what happened to their trophy list is going to be discussed away from them. What you're saying rather proves the point that for the most part the dispute threads are here to place guilt upon the people, as you don't want them to be defended against their flag by someone who knows about the game because it "gives them an excuse". It's your duty to prove that their trophies are illegitimate after their time stamps are proven to be legitimate, you shouldn't put that burden on the person who is disputing the flag who already has assumed guilt by most people viewing the thread because the matter had to be brought to public attention. 

Edited April 15, 2018 by Sergen

[ProfBambam55 1,887]

10 hours ago, Superbuu3 said:

Dude its nice you wanna do that, but fair warning you can get the plat in one playthrough you'll basically be subjecting yourself to a second playthrough of a game you don't know if you like yet. In all fair ness it is pretty awesome, just play it a bit before you agree to do the research.

I started this up last night playing blindly and noticed that there are multiple save spots... couldn't I do just about everything other than one trial, save before the last boss, start new game, do missing trial on ng+ to see if trophy unlocks...load up my save before the last boss, go finish the missing trial on that playthrough, and ding the plat?...if this works, logically I'd have no reason to continue playing on ng+ once we know how the trials work, correct?...

 

if trials need to be done in one playthrough my list would then look similar to @Hatchet_Girl1990's, right?...if they do carry over I should ding the plat on ng+ if everything else is done, yes?...what I'm wondering is is it possible to earn everything in the game except doing the first demon trial?...the latter question is not related to the dispute, just curiosity...does not completing that trial lock me out of anything else?...

Edited April 15, 2018 by ProfBambam55

[MMDE 6,472]

2 hours ago, Sergen said:

 

If it's possible to do it with time stamps like this, I think the person shouldn't be flagged regardless of whether they remember what happened or not. There are people who got trophies close to 10 years ago now who likely don't have the slightest clue as to how they earned some of the trophies, so to expect someone to explain trophies in clear detail years after they got the trophies is unfair if the time stamps are legitimately achievable without hacks. But aside from that, I think it's best not to lead the person on who made the dispute by showing that you're clearly keeping information away from them, you could sort this out in PMs without leaving public comments mentioning that what happened to their trophy list is going to be discussed away from them. What you're saying rather proves the point that for the most part the dispute threads are here to place guilt upon the people, as you don't want them to be defended against their flag by someone who knows about the game because it "gives them an excuse". It's your duty to prove that their trophies are illegitimate after their time stamps are proven to be legitimate, you shouldn't put that burden on the person who is disputing the flag who already has assumed guilt by most people viewing the thread because the matter had to be brought to public attention. 

 

Again, I'm interested in what really happened, so first of all, I want to hear what they have to say. I really don't think they got the feeling anything was held back from them, do you?

 

Not sure how you come to the conclusion that I'm here to place guilt upon people just because I want to know what really happened. Do you want me to link to what you did previously, and how you did nothing but place even more shade on who you tried to help? What you did did not help the disputer at all. I would hate to flag someone who is innocent, which is why it's better to not taint what they say with totally out there excuses like you did.

 

Beyondthegrave07 could probably have posted what he told me in PM in public in the first place. He knew it collaborated with what the disputer said and is likely something that could have happened. Of course I brought it up once they had told me about it. I'm here to help...

 

Do you really think I'm out to flag innocent people? Do you trust my judgement on these cases?

 

 

1 hour ago, ProfBambam55 said:

I started this up last night playing blindly and noticed that there are multiple save spots... couldn't I do just about everything other than one trial, save before the last boss, start new game, do missing trial on ng+ to see if trophy unlocks...load up my save before the last boss, go finish the missing trial on that playthrough, and ding the plat?...if this works, logically I'd have no reason to continue playing on ng+ once we know how the trials work, correct?...

 

if trials need to be done in one playthrough my list would then look similar to @Hatchet_Girl1990's, right?...if they do carry over I should ding the plat on ng+ if everything else is done, yes?...what I'm wondering is is it possible to earn everything in the game except doing the first demon trial?...the latter question is not related to the dispute, just curiosity...does not completing that trial lock me out of anything else?...

 

I was going to just quickly play through the game and focus on only doing the last two trials in the first playthrough, and then start getting anything missable up to the point of the first trial. Once I had completed the first trial, I'd see if the trophy pops or not, and then finish everything in that playthrough. If you want it out of order like Hatchet_Girl1990, I assume you just gotta leave the two other trials alone for that playthrough. I know you ask if there's nothing else behind the trials, and I have not played the game, but I assume you get all of what is behind the last two in the first playthrough, and the beads you find there do carry over.

 

 

 

 

Looks like all you get is the beads, but again, not played the game.

[ProfBambam55 1,887]

hi guys, there seems to be a somewhat personal side discussion going on and yes, it started here due to circumstances in this dispute...could you guys maybe create a separate thread (if there isn't one already) to debate it out since I don't think it's exclusively related to the time stamps, game, or player in this case but might be a topic worthy of general discussion? ...just a recommendation...i know it can be difficult to stop a boulder once it has started rolling down a hill...not an attempt at being a wannabe mod either...it would kind of annoy me if I was looking to a resolve a flag and this came up is all...

 

**edit : and now we have a place...yay...

1 hour ago, MMDE said:

I was going to just quickly play through the game and focus on only doing the last two trials in the first playthrough, and then start getting anything missable up to the point of the first trial. Once I had completed the first trial, I'd see if the trophy pops or not, and then finish everything in that playthrough. If you want it out of order like Hatchet_Girl1990, I assume you just gotta leave the two other trials alone for that playthrough. I know you ask if there's nothing else behind the trials, and I have not played the game, but I assume you get all of what is behind the last two in the first playthrough, and the beads you find there do carry over.

 

 

 

 

Looks like all you get is the beads, but again, not played the game.

seems like earning a lot of the other stuff will help in obtaining "perks" to beat the third trial so I figured I could just do the opposite and breeze through ng+...

Edited April 15, 2018 by ProfBambam55

[MMDE 6,472]

2 hours ago, ProfBambam55 said:

seems like earning a lot of the other stuff will help in obtaining "perks" to beat the third trial so I figured I could just do the opposite and breeze through ng+...

 

Yeah, I was just thinking about what would take the least amount of time.

[Superbuu3 2,700]

12 hours ago, ProfBambam55 said:

I started this up last night playing blindly and noticed that there are multiple save spots... couldn't I do just about everything other than one trial, save before the last boss, start new game, do missing trial on ng+ to see if trophy unlocks...load up my save before the last boss, go finish the missing trial on that playthrough, and ding the plat?...if this works, logically I'd have no reason to continue playing on ng+ once we know how the trials work, correct?...

 

if trials need to be done in one playthrough my list would then look similar to @Hatchet_Girl1990's, right?...if they do carry over I should ding the plat on ng+ if everything else is done, yes?...what I'm wondering is is it possible to earn everything in the game except doing the first demon trial?...the latter question is not related to the dispute, just curiosity...does not completing that trial lock me out of anything else?...

New game plus in this game locks away abilities that unlock areas. I'm pretty sure the first demon gate is a long way into the game as far as powers are concerned, so youd llikely have to play at least 5 hours of game again (if memory serves you can't skip cutscenes in this game). It might be a lot longer I don't really know as it depends on its locations and what powers its locked behind. You'd have a better picture when youre into the game. But this is a long game so could be hours more than that. I just wanted to give you a heads up as it could be time consuming.

 

To answer your question you could do everything in game except get all stray beads if you didn't beat all demon gates. So thats two trophies. Demon gates are literally one of the very last things you'd be capable of doing in the game as they are a survival battle. You could do everything else, but you'd only be able to get those two trophies out of order if beyonds theory is right. But either way you'd have to do a new game plus and play at least half the game again.

[Hatchet_Girl1990 169]

I asked someone who made an Okami HD guide if all three trials need to be done in one playthrough to get the achievement.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1234210410

I know the link is for Steam, but I did look at the author of the PSNP guide, but they hadn't been online for a while, and wasn't sure how long it would take for a response. I imagine this answer would still apply for PSN too. People are still open to play the game to confirm this for me, but I felt useless for waiting on someone else to help me.

So the reason for my flag said "It is not possible to get all stray beads before the devil gates, as there are 3 stray beads tied to clearing all 3 gates." But it is very possible that I did 1 or 2 demon gates on a first playthrough. Then on my second playthrough, after looking at trophies, did the missing gate thinking that I didn't need to replay the other ones, therefore getting all the beads. But then had to complete the previous gates to get the other trophy, which would explain why I got 'Out of the Gate Swinging' after getting all the beads.

[mekktor 482]

At this point, there is a plausible explanation suggesting that the reasoning behind the flag was wrong. I think in cases like this, the flag should be lifted and the burden should be on the flagging team to verify the reasoning if they want it to be flagged again. The disputer shouldn't have to wait weeks and rely on help from others to overturn a flag that should not have been applied in the first place.

[MMDE 6,472]

4 minutes ago, mekktor said:

At this point, there is a plausible explanation suggesting that the reasoning behind the flag was wrong. I think in cases like this, the flag should be lifted and the burden should be on the flagging team to verify the reasoning if they want it to be flagged again. The disputer shouldn't have to wait weeks and rely on help from others to overturn a flag that should not have been applied in the first place.

 

ProfBamBam said he would test it, and if you look at his profile, you'll see he's been playing through the game. I rather want a confirmation from him. Him popping all beads before all 3 trials would be great. Nothing bad is going to happen by him doing this, and @Hatchet_Girl1990 will just have to be a little bit patient. This might result in other reports being lifted too. Really, there's no rush. I rather dislike rush to make a decision, as this will often lead to making decisions you otherwise wouldn't.

Edited April 19, 2018 by MMDE

[DEMONICRUBLE18 80]

Gotta say thank you to profambam for doing this, not only will it help this dispute but other flags and disputes that have been raised and ones that will inevitably happen in the future. 

[ProfBambam55 1,887]

yep, working my way through...the game has much more content than expected...apologies, @Hatchet_Girl1990 for making you wait...hopefully you can understand that this a first case like this and that your patience can help us all understand how the game works a little better...

[Hatchet_Girl1990 169]

It's okay @ProfBambam55. I really appreciate you doing this for me. I just feel bad for making you play it 😅  But if this helps others too then take your time 🙂

[FlyingDutchmen85 26]

Sorry to be a bit off topic, but I still wanted to say it's nice to see a dispute being handled in a calm and constructive manner by the disputer and the people trying to help.

[ProfBambam55 1,887]

On 19/04/2018 at 9:18 AM, Hatchet_Girl1990 said:

It's okay @ProfBambam55. I really appreciate you doing this for me. I just feel bad for making you play it   But if this helps others too then take your time 

ok, I'm all done testing this out...what I did:

completed playthrough 1 finishing everything aside from the first demon trial in ryoshima coast...meaning I had all stray beads other than the one for the that trial and the north ryoshima and kamui demon trials done...started new game +...worked my way up to the ryoshima coast demon trial and completed only it of the three...

 

result : stray bead trophy dinged, demon trial one did not ding...

 

what this means : the three demon trials need to be completed in one playthrough for the trophy...the stray beads can all be gotten without earning the demon trial trophy... 

 

conclusion : @MMDEyou can lift this one, it's legit...

 

side note : I could provide screenshots if necessary showing my progress but instead will provide a tidbit that only someone who played this should know...there is false info on the bead guides on the internet with regards to bead #42...it says you need to complete the ryoshima coast demon gate trials to find Inaba, the bunny with the black on him...this is false...he can be found at night in front of the sei'an city entrance up on the hill in the long grass area that you can bloom to remove evil...you can return him to the animal lover without completing any demon trials...also, feel free to check my trophy timestamps for confirmation...i've left the demon trial trophy as unearned to highlight this case...will unlock it later today...

 

p.s. I enjoyed the game...

Edited April 21, 2018 by ProfBambam55

[Hatchet_Girl1990 169]

Thank you @ProfBambam55. I really appreciate you taking the time to help me with this dispute  

[ProfBambam55 1,887]

honestly, it could've gone either way in terms of the flag staying or being lifted so it was good to test it out...you seem quite nice so i'm glad I could help and that it all worked out in your favor...again, thanks for your patience...

[shpank-e 99]

Kudos to all involved, especially @ProfBambam55. I hope your flag gets lifted soon, @Hatchet_Girl1990!

 

As toxic as these disputes get at times, this was handled masterfully, and should serve as the benchmark when dealing with these types of situations.

 

Respect, patience, sacrifice, diligence...gives me the warm and fuzzies😊

 

Now if you'll excuse me, I have some beastly Nordic blood to spill!😈

[MMDE 6,472]

Lifted like 8 flags.  Thanks @ProfBambam55 !