Why are games being shut down? GDPR

[DARKB1KE]

Why are more games being shut down recently?  GDPR?  What is that?  (I'm a Canadian living in isolation from the rest of the world)

 

sources:
https://www.ioi.dk/hitman-absolution-service-message/

https://steamcommunity.com/games/208090/announcements/detail/1666772945326814406

Edited May 13, 2018 by DARKB1KE

[Leenewbe]

new data protection regulations in Europe.

Edited May 12, 2018 by Leenewbe

[Sergen]

I doubt it has much to do with GDPR because agreeing to the terms of PSN likely does apply across all online games you play as you need PSN to play online. If it was because of GDPR, it still wouldn't be affecting the world entirely and most servers for games are run outside of Europe. More games are shutting down because the games got old and had hardly any players on them, except in Sony's case where Gran Turismo 5 surely wasn't a dead game but they wanted to push people over to playing Gran Turismo 6 because it likely didn't even get quarter of the sales that the previous game got. People also say that it's because servers cost a lot of money to run, but in Sony's case it would be the equivalent of one of us buying a sandwich for lunch everyday for them to maintain any server for their games. Because various things are being removed from PS3 like the servers for old games and the fact that PS+ isn't going to be giving PS3 games anymore next year, I am thinking Sony wants to shut PSN for PS3. While people are saying PSN is shared across all systems, they could very well be planning on making the PS5 and excluding PS3 from PSN there, if they ever do that I know I'm heading for xbox which is hardly affected by server shutdowns to begin with. 

[charlijaen]

17 minutes ago, Sergen said:

hardly affected by server shutdowns to begin with. 

This used to be true in the first years 2006 - 2009 when developers used to opt in for the Xbox owned servers (funded with gold subscriptions) but after that, most publishers just used their own servers. 

For example, PES 6 & PES 2008 servers still work on X360 because they used MS servers, whereas from PES 2009 till 2017 the servers were shutdown by Konami.

 

Back on topic. I don't know why several servers have to shut down because of this new European laws, but I think that once you agree with PSN ToS & Privacy Policy you should be fine with any game but it seems that it is not the case and these has to apply to each service

 

[NetEntity]

29 minutes ago, Sergen said:

Because various things are being removed from PS3 like the servers for old games and the fact that PS+ isn't going to be giving PS3 games anymore next year, I am thinking Sony wants to shut PSN for PS3. While people are saying PSN is shared across all systems, they could very well be planning on making the PS5 and excluding PS3 from PSN there, if they ever do that I know I'm heading for xbox which is hardly affected by server shutdowns to begin with. 

 

Yes, just as Sony has shut down PSN for PSP, so you can't buy or download games for your PSP ever.
Oh wait, no, you still can.

That would be equivalent to taking all the purchases away and a huge reputation hit. Online server shutdowns or not, I feel like the library is here to stay. 

Besides, doesn't PSN have a shared server for all the platforms, which prevents the different platform sections from being taken down?

Edited May 12, 2018 by NetEntity

[Caesar Clown]

When it costs more to maintain the servers than what you're receiving from it, you shut it down.

[ShadowStar83x]

I think most of them are shutting down due to age more than anything. Only Hitman Absolution has said it's because of that and they're going to try and bring them back.

Edited May 12, 2018 by ShadowStar83x

[turpinator1986]

Nothing to do with GDPR whatsoever. Just ps3 getting old and sony getting ready to shut it down to make room for ps5. GDPR is about data protection and your marketing preferences with any company that holds your personal data. 

Edited May 12, 2018 by turpinator1986

[ShadowStar83x]

1 minute ago, turpinator1986 said:

Nothing to do with GDPR whatsoever. Just ps3 getting old and sony getting ready to shut it down to make room for ps5.

Sony confirmed that no new hardware will be shown at E3, but it probably won't be much longer before we hear something.

Edited May 12, 2018 by ShadowStar83x

[RNumbers]

The recently announced Hitman shutdown is supposedly due to GDPR, but I think it's an exception rather than the rule.

 

Hitman is also supposed to be a temporary shutdown.

[Beyondthegrave07]

In layman's terms, GDPR is a new regulation in Europe that imposes heavy fines for sharing data of someone else without permission from the other person. This applies to all people in Europe and everyone who deals with European clients who do not live in Europe. For example, I live in the USA and was given a resume for someone in Europe to work on my team and realized that I can't hire him because he's not in the US, but we have an office in London that he can work out of, I am not allowed to forward that resume to a manager in the London office without having the candidate's permission to pass it along even though I am in the U.S. How would this apply to gaming? If you have a EU account, Sony is not allowed to share your email, name, birthday, etc. with anyone else without your explicit permission. I have no clue how this would possibly effect servers going down. Even if you consider "Leaderboards" as sharing EU data, that doesn't make it personal data. Personal data would be like your full name, address, email, phone number, etc. Your PSN name and your KTD, wins, etc. is not personal data.

[turpinator1986]

2 minutes ago, ShadowStar83x said:

Sony confirmed that no new hardware will be shown at E3, but it probably won't be much longer before we hear something.

Average lifespan of Sony consoles is 6/7 years. Meaning we’ll probably get it back end of 2019/early 2020

[FFHannibal]

Adhering to PSN ToS doesn't necessarily mean you're adhering to all new privacy regulations in GDPR. Some games are shutting down (or saying they are shutting down because of GDPR) because their current infrastructure doesn't have sufficient measures in place to protect and/or guarantee the privacy of their user data. GDPR requires stricter measures handling user data (like only saving user data that's actually needed for the service you're providing, letting users know which data you are keeping, and strict rules about how you save the data). My guess is that their actual servers don't have enough security or something so they have to restructure. Some companies don't feel like investing in that restructure so just decide to remove their game, or temporarily down servers to restructure (Hitman).

Edited May 12, 2018 by FFHannibal

[ShadowStar83x]

2 minutes ago, Beyondthegrave07 said:

In layman's terms, GDPR is a new regulation in Europe that imposes heavy fines for sharing data of someone else without permission from the other person. This applies to all people in Europe and everyone who deals with European clients who do not live in Europe. For example, I live in the USA and was given a resume for someone in Europe to work on my team and realized that I can't hire him because he's not in the US, but we have an office in London that he can work out of, I am not allowed to forward that resume to a manager in the London office without having the candidate's permission to pass it along even though I am in the U.S. How would this apply to gaming? If you have a EU account, Sony is not allowed to share your email, name, birthday, etc. with anyone else without your explicit permission. I have no clue how this would possibly effect servers going down. Even if you consider "Leaderboards" as sharing EU data, that doesn't make it personal data. Personal data would be like your full name, address, email, phone number, etc. Your PSN name and your KTD, wins, etc. is not personal data.

Beisdes, Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo and the big game companies have already probably taken steps to change their policies to be compliant.

[turpinator1986]

2 minutes ago, FFHannibal said:

Adhering to PSN ToS doesn't necessarily mean you're adhering to all new privacy regulations in GDPR. Some games are shutting down (or saying they are shutting down because of GDPR) because their current infrastructure doesn't have sufficient measures in place to protect and/or guarantee the privacy of their user data. GDPR requires stricter measures handling user data (like only saving user data that's actually needed for the service you're providing, letting users know which data they are keeping, and strict rules about how you save the data). My guess is that their actual servers don't have enough security or something so they have to restructure. Some companies don't feel like investing in that restructure so just decide to remove their game, or temporarily down servers to restructure (Hitman).

This has no relevance to gaming. Your psn username isn’t classed as personal data. Ps3 games are just getting shut down cause they’re old. It’s a coincidence. 

3 minutes ago, ShadowStar83x said:

Beisdes, Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo and the big game companies have already probably taken steps to change their policies to be compliant.

Yup, literally the only difference is how people are being contacted by companies. Nothing else. 

[ExHaseo]

It's just the PS3 is getting phased out. At this point, the PS3 is almost 12 years old, and new units haven't been made outside of Japan in over a year. There's not much reason to keep online support for these old games that very very few people play anymore, especially when it's costing money to keep them up.

[turpinator1986]

8 minutes ago, Beyondthegrave07 said:

In layman's terms, GDPR is a new regulation in Europe that imposes heavy fines for sharing data of someone else without permission from the other person. This applies to all people in Europe and everyone who deals with European clients who do not live in Europe. For example, I live in the USA and was given a resume for someone in Europe to work on my team and realized that I can't hire him because he's not in the US, but we have an office in London that he can work out of, I am not allowed to forward that resume to a manager in the London office without having the candidate's permission to pass it along even though I am in the U.S. How would this apply to gaming? If you have a EU account, Sony is not allowed to share your email, name, birthday, etc. with anyone else without your explicit permission. I have no clue how this would possibly effect servers going down. Even if you consider "Leaderboards" as sharing EU data, that doesn't make it personal data. Personal data would be like your full name, address, email, phone number, etc. Your PSN name and your KTD, wins, etc. is not personal data.

This would already have been against data protection law before the new regulation. The only thing that’s changed is how companies are allowed to contact people who they have stored data on. It doesn’t affect gaming whatsoever apart from the subscription emails you get from Sony. Surprisingly I’ve received nothing from them about it. 

[Beyondthegrave07]

3 minutes ago, turpinator1986 said:

This would already have been against data protection law before the new regulation. The only thing that’s changed is how companies are allowed to contact people who they have stored data on. It doesn’t affect gaming whatsoever apart from the subscription emails you get from Sony. Surprisingly I’ve received nothing from them about it. 

Yeah, from what I understand, it just became more strict with heavier penalties. I ended up having to take a 1-hour class at work about it earlier this week just in case I was ever given data from someone in the EU.

[FFHannibal]

31 minutes ago, turpinator1986 said:

This has no relevance to gaming. Your psn username isn’t classed as personal data. Ps3 games are just getting shut down cause they’re old. It’s a coincidence.

Some companies do list GDPR as their reason for shutting down though, so they're just lying? I wouldn't be surprised if Sony gave more than just your PSN username to the companies they work with, in fact I'd be very surprised if that's all they gave. If those companies keep, for example your email, on their servers, their infrastructure needs to change if they're not already sufficiently protecting their servers and/or databases. It's not only about informing people what you're doing with their data, it's actively protecting it. If they keep your email, password, etc. unencrypted on their database/server, they have to change it. 'The controller shall..implement appropriate technical and organisational measures..in an effective way.. in order to meet the requirements of this Regulation and protect the rights of data subjects'. is actually part of an article of the GDPR.

 

The fact that companies say they're removing their games because of GDPR either means they're actually doing it because of GDPR, using it as an excuse or they have been doing shady things with your info for a long time and don't want to get caught doing it from the 25th of May onwards.

 

(Just so you know, even a computer IP address is considered personal data)

 

Edited May 12, 2018 by FFHannibal

[turpinator1986]

3 hours ago, FFHannibal said:

Some companies do list GDPR as their reason for shutting down though, so they're just lying? I wouldn't be surprised if Sony gave more than just your PSN username to the companies they work with, in fact I'd be very surprised if that's all they gave. If those companies keep, for example your email, on their servers, their infrastructure needs to change if they're not already sufficiently protecting their servers and/or databases. It's not only about informing people what you're doing with their data, it's actively protecting it. If they keep your email, password, etc. unencrypted on their database/server, they have to change it. 'The controller shall..implement appropriate technical and organisational measures..in an effective way.. in order to meet the requirements of this Regulation and protect the rights of data subjects'. is actually part of an article of the GDPR.

 

The fact that companies say they're removing their games because of GDPR either means they're actually doing it because of GDPR, using it as an excuse or they have been doing shady things with your info for a long time and don't want to get caught doing it from the 25th of May onwards.

 

(Just so you know, even a computer IP address is considered personal data)

 

It’s that they’re lying, or they weren’t compliant in the first place. As me and another guy mentioned above, the only change in the law is related to how strict it is and heavier punishments. If they were already compliant they wouldn’t have had to do anything except check everyone’s preferences are up to date. I don’t know exactly how it works when you join an online game but I doubt they permanently store any of your personal details it would just be a temporary thing. So I’m gonna go with that they’re just using it as an excuse so they don’t get the grief they inevitably get every time they close a server. 

 

Just out of interest which game have you seen where they’ve used this as an excuse? Because if they have, and it was true, that developer would have to shut down every single one of their games as the same rule would apply to all of them. 

Edited May 13, 2018 by turpinator1986

[Skadoki]

Thanks for this thread - that was an interesting read and it's great to know about Hitman Absolution now.

What other games' online services are shutting down because of that?

[IoIly]

As i understand the game owner pay to Sony for keeping the game in the ps store. When licence expire Sony remove the game from the store. Am i wrong?

[DARKB1KE]

6 hours ago, Sergen said:

I doubt it has much to do with GDPR

https://www.ioi.dk/hitman-absolution-service-message/

Quote

This change has been forced upon us due to a combination of incoming GDPR rules and the fact that we do not have ownership of the Absolution Contracts Mode servers. That ownership lies with the game’s original publisher.

https://steamcommunity.com/games/208090/announcements/detail/1666772945326814406
 

Quote

GDPR
The well-intended GDPR legislation creates major burdens for small companies to do business in the EU, starting on 5/25. We don't have the resources to update Loadout to GDPR compliance, and a big portion of Loadout players come from the EU. Sadly, while big companies have the resources to comply with the GDPR, that's not always the case for small businesses. We still protect your privacy, and we wouldn't dream of doing otherwise. We just don't have the resources to overhaul Loadout and implement new features to meet a large list of new requirements.

 

Edited May 13, 2018 by DARKB1KE

[Sergen]

Just now, DARKB1KE said:

https://www.ioi.dk/hitman-absolution-service-message/

 

 

I have recently seen that previously, just didn't change my post. But I will say that it's gonna really suck badly when some companies need to shut their game because of GDPR but they don't even announce it. We'll just have to wait and see past May 25th what will happen to some games. It kinda shows how shady a company could be behind the scenes if something that protects people's privacy within a game is what causes them to stop supporting the online for the game. 

[DARKB1KE]

7 minutes ago, Sergen said:

 

I have recently seen that previously, just didn't change my post. But I will say that it's gonna really suck badly when some companies need to shut their game because of GDPR but they don't even announce it. We'll just have to wait and see past May 25th what will happen to some games. It kinda shows how shady a company could be behind the scenes if something that protects people's privacy within a game is what causes them to stop supporting the online for the game. 

There's probably a few more games that will shut down silently without giving players notice  

Goodbye trophies! 

 

5 hours ago, ShadowStar83x said:

I think most of them are shutting down due to age more than anything. Only Hitman Absolution has said it's because of that and they're going to try and bring them back.

Loadout on PS4 is also affected. 

 

1 hour ago, Skadoki said:

Thanks for this thread - that was an interesting read and it's great to know about Hitman Absolution now.

What other games' online services are shutting down because of that?

Loadout for PS4.

 

5 hours ago, RNumbers said:

Hitman is also supposed to be a temporary shutdown.

You will see a message "oh we don't have the funds to update this title any longer, thanks!" so I would treat it as permanent.

Edited May 13, 2018 by DARKB1KE