The reputation of the Souls series.

[Paleblood]

If there is one thing I dislike about the phenomenon that is called Dark Souls its it's reputation.

 

Everyone knows the Soulsborne series. If you ever watched an in-depth analysis of an action rpg since 2011 chances are pretty high some aspects of it were compared to Dark Souls.

Youtube creators of any age will sometimes start a Dark Souls let's play for shits and giggles and will always act the same way. ''Oh my gawd I'm doing this haha we will die all the time guys!!''

While I think it is the single greatest franchise ever created this pisses me off to no end. But what I think doesn't matter.

 

You might ask yourself at this point ''So what?''. Let me explain.

 

The main problem I see in this is that everyone that was not part of the ''original Dark Souls crowd'' (please don't take this as a statement of sorts, I don't know how to call it) anno 2011 got introduced to this series the same way: ''These are the hardest games ever dude! It's like you're just walking, minding your own buisness- BAM DRAGON!!  And the bosses man, you will die all the time.''

 

This encourages exactly one behavior, people will spoil themselves over everything. They won't even try most things, because it's so hard you basically have to use google... huh.

It isn't. But everyone who played it already knows.

I'm not even speaking hyperbolically. I know a guy who checks the internet everytime before he passes a Fog-Door because he is so afraid of loosing a single soul.

The greatest sin a gamer can commit in my eyes is telling other people to always have their shield up in these games. Have you ever actually tried to play without a shield? It's much more fun.

Of course this seems subjective as hell, but only blocking specific attacks and use parry frequently is simply way more interactive than just turtle behind a piece of metal and hope for the best. Not to speak of the rush of adrenalin you have if you parry Gwyn for the first time. But hey, just holding L1 all the time is also really really engaging.

 

Although this may seem like the typical ''git gud'' post, I promise you, it's really not.

 

The reason why I find this to be this big of a problem is because I love these games so much. And I know for a fact that I wouldn't have enjoyed them as much if I googled my way through everything. The sense of amazement when I myself discovered The Painted World of Ariamis, when I myself discovered how to get back to the Undead Asylum, when I got stuck in the Tomb of the Giants because I hadn't yet placed the Lordvessel. I had to backtrack through this nightmare of a level without the skull lantern, because I suck at videogames. But these are all memories I remember fondly and love to look back to.

 

I wouldn't have experienced a single moment like this if I googled it. The time I heard the DLC has it's own strange way of getting to...etc... If you spoil all this for yourself you just have the basic shell of the Dark Souls games. Sure, you will enjoy them since they are objectively great games, but they are so much more than that. The reason why this series is still so beloved is not just the difficulty or the combat system. Hell, you could say Nioh has the better combat system on paper, but it's just not that simple. It's all the hidden things, all the clues, all the love you see everywhere in this series.

 

If just one single person stops looking for ''best weapon dark souls'' on google I can die at peace. I know that many, many of you won't agree with me, and of course you don't have to. But if you have played Dark Souls without frequently using google just think about what you liked on your first playthrough and why. Let me know.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't the time where you duped souls or used the Hellkite exploit...

 

You only have one first playthrough. Don't destroy it. If you only play for trophies, you have to play through these games like 5 times anyway. Try to enjoy something for a change.

 

I actually don't know how to end this. This is a thought I carried a long time with me and was kind of afraid to post in such a manner. I'm expecting the worst honestly.

 

J

 

PS: If you checked if a chest is a mimic via google or other means, I can't take you serious and you have no right to play videogames.lololol

Edited May 30, 2018 by Stardew Shelly

[DrBloodmoney]

While I pretty much agree with your basic points, I think it is worth noting that From Software cultivate that reputation.

 

It’s not some phenomenon that has resulted from word of mouth or ill-informed opinion, and it clearly doesn’t hurt the brand, as they are the ones leaning into it with ‘prepare to die’ editions etc.

[DaivRules]

I have heard Souls games are hard (challenging hard, not impossible hard), but haven’t played any and haven’t watched anything about them online. I’m not really even confident I know what the hell type of game they are or what they are about.

 

So now you can rest well knowing not everybody has gone through the thing you’re talking about.

[Paleblood]

1 minute ago, DrBloodmoney said:

While I pretty much agree with your basic points, I think it is worth noting that From Software cultivate that reputation.

 

It’s not some phenomenon that has resulted from word of mouth or ill-informed opinion, and it clearly doesn’t hurt the brand, as they are the ones leaning into it with ‘prepare to die’ editions etc.

 

That's a fair point I actually tend to forget but I still think word of mouth plays a large role in it as well. A good measurement for me is my girlfriend. She really wasn't that into games before we met, played some Sims here and there.

She doesn't check any media surrounding games, everything she knows about games is word of mouth, and she had exactly the same thoughts about the series that I see so often. She plays Dark Souls: Remastered for the first time in her life and loves it. First she tried turtling and got frustrated. I then suggested parrying and two-handing weapons sometimes and now she has a blast playing. Of course this is very selective, but still.

 

J

[NaseemJohn]

Dark Soul’s difficulty is overrated and if you praise it because of that then you’re playing it for the wrong reason. 

[Paleblood]

1 minute ago, NaseemJohn said:

Dark Soul’s difficulty is overrated and if you praise it because of that then you’re playing it for the wrong reason. 

 

Yup, that's the short version pretty much.

But in my experience this doesn't help new players, only people who already played it will agree with you. The everlasting conundrum is how to speak to both ends at the same time.

 

J

[Bullstomp]

I have played characters with shields ( I love the shield parry), dual wield (love the backstab), heavy weapons (stun) and spell weapons (nuking is fun!).

 

As someone who has platinumed the series I can't understand anyone who doesn't like any one of those techniques. The series is so balanced you can make any technique work in any battle. Playing with a shield it makes sense going "shield up" into the unknown. . .

 

It is fucking lame to google instead of explore though. Why bother playing then?

[Ptirle]

Shields are lame after u beat the game for 10th time or so, tried everything, pyro, magic, bow, etc, now playing/cosplaying as Guts  and 2 hand greatswords are a way to go for me, but even with greatswords u'll able to kill almost everything in 2 hits, my zwei+15 buffed with dark moon blade deals aroun 1100 dmg, but it;s not so great for PVP because it's slow.

PVP is another thing, out of 50-60 encounters so far, only one was not trying to backstab me, everyone else were either full havel with balder sword/queelag's fury sword or naked with tracers which would only go for backtabs. yeah, only backstabs, not throwing magic, trying to hit me normaly or something, no, just run for the backstab lol. Only thing that iritates me is that, the lag and that backstabs can be done from the side.  I thought they would improve that but oh well...

Edited May 30, 2018 by Ptirle

[Cassylvania]

I started typing up a response to this, stopped, and decided to play the devil's advocate instead.

 

While I generally agree with what you're saying, I think it's important to understand that not everybody wants a challenge. There are people out there, who -- believe it or not -- like to play games on the easiest setting. They like overpowered weapons, they spam the most powerful attacks, and they'll look up strategies at the first sign of trouble. And while you might scoff at them and say they're ruining the game for themselves, ask yourself this: are they not having a good time? If this is something they do in other games, why does it suddenly become a bad thing when Dark Souls is involved? As has already been pointed out, there are many ways to play through the game, and one way isn't inherently better than any of the others.

 

Maybe they just found a way to enjoy Dark Souls that you haven't.

[DrBloodmoney]

12 minutes ago, Cassylvania said:

I started typing up a response to this, stopped, and decided to play the devil's advocate instead.

 

While I generally agree with what you're saying, I think it's important to understand that not everybody wants a challenge. There are people out there, who -- believe it or not -- like to play games on the easiest setting. They like overpowered weapons, they spam the most powerful attacks, and they'll look up strategies at the first sign of trouble. And while you might scoff at them and say they're ruining the game for themselves, ask yourself this: are they not having a good time? If this is something they do in other games, why does it suddenly become a bad thing when Dark Souls is involved? As has already been pointed out, there are many ways to play through the game, and one way isn't inherently better than any of the others.

 

Maybe they just found a way to enjoy Dark Souls that you haven't.

 

This is a good point - while I broadly agree with the OP on some points (except the build stuff - I’ve played every Soulsborne multiple time, and think sword and shield is just as fun at any other build, it has it’s strengths and weaknesses same as any other) but I think the tone of the original post skirts awfully close to telling people how they should enjoy their own hobby, and that isn’t cool.

 

We all have jobs and families and bills and motgages and responsibilities. If someone wants to enjoy their downtime blasting through a game on easy-peasy mode, or looking up FAQs or whatever, that might not be my bag, but I’m not gonna tell them they are doing it wrong.

 

It’s all for fun at the end of the day, and they are making their fun work for them. 

 

 

Edited May 30, 2018 by DrBloodmoney

[GravityQueeen]

I agree that everyone should play the way they want to, but making your own discoveries in Yarnham or Drangleic, for example, makes you feel greatly rewarded; you wont forget your first time fighting Gascoigne, the first time arriving at the Undead Settlement... I think close to Stardew Shelly, though: it pisses me off when people say the games are very hard. Get good, bro! DESTROY EVERYTHING, EVERYONE, INVADE! But dont forget praising the sun at the end of the day, this is only a videogame lol 

 

[Deluziion90]

I rather faceroll through remastered and know where to go instead of searching for ages. Thanks for the heads up btw about googling the best weapon I know you read my post in DS:Remastered. Didn't know it would "offend" you this much.

 

Anyways I absolutely love Bloordborne and Dark Souls 3 and I've got 100's of hours in the PC version. and played Bloodborne for so many hours, I think it's even my number 1 game when it comes to hours played on Playstation. I just cant be arsed this time to play for so long and find everything myself.

[Zolkovo]

Bloodborne was actually my first, and so far only, dive into the Soulsborne series and I found it laughably easy tbh (2/10 tops including defiled chalice dungeon etc.). Maybe I just lucked out with my build, but it complimented my play style extremely well to the point where iirc I only died to a couple of bosses that in hindsight were two of the easier ones. I died a shitload of times yolo'ing into traps, ambushes and whatnot but that was part of the allure for me, and I like the rush I get from backtracking and rambo'ing back in there trying to retrieve lost echoes/souls. And more often than not succeeding.

 

The only googling I did was around half way through the game where I was curious about what kind of runes existed (but not their locations) and a vague idea of anything missable so that I wouldn't have to play a 2nd time if I ended up finding it average or worse. Exploration is simply amazing in Bloodborne, although the dungeons felt samey and boring if I'm honest. I should add I had some trouble in the first hour of the game where I was trying to work out how to time riposte perfectly with the executioner near the beginning so I did ask the forum about it and turns out it was a simple matter of swapping out the blunderbuss for the pistol.

 

As for best weapon, that's fairly subjective in BB anyway. I did a NG+ with an arcane build and went for an entirely different set up which turned out to be just as overpowered as my original Ludwig strength build. So I don't know if it's different with the Souls games, but my guess is it's pretty well balanced too.

 

TL;DR: Difficulty is massively overrated and exaggerated imo.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Zolkovo

[Auto-Tomato]

I'd remove 'moron' from the post, as others have said, all styles and strategies are viable and while I can understand the turtle isn't for you, it doesn't mean it doesn't work for others, people play the game how they see fit.   

 

 Yeah Souls aren't the easiest of games but they're far from the hardest, it's just a matter of finding rhythm and strategy but that'll be different for everyone, I don't see hiding behind a shield any different to those that spam pyro, or cheese enemies from afar with the bow etc..., people don't have the same skill levels either, not everyone can successfully parry or dodge roll attacks, neither do they have the same patience or time to play...

 

I do agree about using google and spoiling the game, but unfortunately that's just the nature of modern gaming.  I always appreciate people taking the time to create guides and vids and so on, but I do always strongly recommend playing a maiden run blind at the very least, for most games.   As much as I enjoy trophies, I often think our games would be better served if the entire system was scrapped, I think for some people nowadays the games aren't the 'game', the trophy hunting is, and while it's not my place to judge, burning through a game just to get trophies quickly is often to miss the joy of what the devs created, and Souls is a joy.  

 

I think you are right mostly, just maybe a little less judgemental on play style, it'd be a fairly boring community if we all played the same, we need those turtles  #savetheturtle

 

 

[screenwriter91]

 I've been playing since the Demon's Souls days and I have to agree with much of what you said. I was initially a "shield up" type of player but it was mostly just because I was absolutely terrified in the beginning. Walking around at a snail's pace, eyes flickering constantly from left to right waiting for the next attack. Boletarian palace anyone? This to me is just indicative of the intimidation factor that comes with being a new player. As several have commented here already, and many veteran players will know, it's not THAT hard. It's just requires a very different mindset than virtually any other game released in recent years. 

I've been critical of dozens of games in the past, Uncharted is by far the worst offender in my opinion, for artificially inflating difficulty. The amount of times you shoot standard henchmen in the chest with half a mag only to watch them storm towards you and kill you in a single shot, beggars belief. Of course this is on crushing, it's supposed to be difficult, but the rules get thrown out the window as soon as you ramp up the difficulty because most developers have no imagination when it comes to creating a more dynamic and challenging game play experience. The latest God of War is more indicative of how it should be done, but the Soulsbourne games have always had that fixed difficulty and either you were willing to learn to adapt to it, or not. 

I still remember reading about guys glitching DaS 1 to get infinite souls just so they could level up and get through the base game and brag about having beaten it. And I still think it's pathetic and a complete waste of a great gaming experience. But you can't teach someone principles, you can't force them to respect that the game is supposed to be an organic challenge. People take what they want from video games, and always will. If they see beating it any way they can (shield up, using google for every corridor, using boss guides) as something to be proud of then there's not much we can do about it. Maybe they feel simply having the skill to pull out the victory over a tough boss is enough for them. For me it doesn't really matter, as long as there are others like me who can still push ourselves to try something different and appreciate the game for what it was meant to be - a rigorous test of your ability to adapt to a plethora of relentless and challenging enemies. I did a no shield playthrough as practice before Bloodborne came out, and got my ass thoroughly kicked from pillar to post. But damn did it improve my dodging and parrying skills for Bloodborne, and now I can mix it with the best of them. Still my favourite gaming series of all time. 

[Dragon-Archon]

Difficulty is indeed overrated. The first game you play will be the hardest due to getting used to how easy it is to die, but after adjusting to that it's very doable. Sure, some segments will be hard and depending on your build some bosses are a more challenging than others *has flashbacks of Ornstein & Smough*, but saying all the Soulsborne games are the hardest ever is way too overrated. If only the games didn't have so much missable stuff.

 

Btw best weapon is totally the Drake Sword  .

[UrbanaSupernovA]

I have yet to find another series where I loved learning from my mistakes as much as I had with the Souls series. A richly rewarding experience....the only thing I used the internet for back in the day was to find out how to farm certain materials. But the levels and bosses themselves were head first encounters! I agree with the OP about the feeling of experiencing each boss and level for the first time going in blind, totally recommended for anyone trying this series for the first time ?

[Mori]

I've used a video-walkthrough for Dark Souls 1 the very first time playing it. 

I still hate myself for that... 

 

Spoiling the experience is stupid, but I wouldn't call it a "problem".

[Paleblood]

2 hours ago, Cassylvania said:

I started typing up a response to this, stopped, and decided to play the devil's advocate instead.

 

While I generally agree with what you're saying, I think it's important to understand that not everybody wants a challenge. There are people out there, who -- believe it or not -- like to play games on the easiest setting. They like overpowered weapons, they spam the most powerful attacks, and they'll look up strategies at the first sign of trouble. And while you might scoff at them and say they're ruining the game for themselves, ask yourself this: are they not having a good time? If this is something they do in other games, why does it suddenly become a bad thing when Dark Souls is involved? As has already been pointed out, there are many ways to play through the game, and one way isn't inherently better than any of the others.

 

Maybe they just found a way to enjoy Dark Souls that you haven't.

3 hours ago, Bullstomp said:

I have played characters with shields ( I love the shield parry), dual wield (love the backstab), heavy weapons (stun) and spell weapons (nuking is fun!).

 

As someone who has platinumed the series I can't understand anyone who doesn't like any one of those techniques. The series is so balanced you can make any technique work in any battle. Playing with a shield it makes sense going "shield up" into the unknown. . .

2 hours ago, DrBloodmoney said:

This is a good point - while I broadly agree with the OP on some points (except the build stuff - I’ve played every Soulsborne multiple time, and think sword and shield is just as fun at any other build, it has it’s strengths and weaknesses same as any other) but I think the tone of the original post skirts awfully close to telling people how they should enjoy their own hobby, and that isn’t cool.

 

1 hour ago, GravityQueeen said:

I agree that everyone should play the way they want to

 

 

I agree with all of you. It's ok to play the game this way and that is not the issue I have with it. I just think it's wrong to tell someone they have to keep their shield up in order to beat this game. That is complete nonsense but still is the main thing I see all the time. I love to watch people tackle Dark Souls for the first time, this just bugs me. They always have a friend who told 'em exactly that. If it's your playstyle after fucking around with some different stuff, cool. Kudos to you, enjoy your game.

I don't want you guys to get hung up on the shield part .

 

 

 

44 minutes ago, RedMustang72 said:

I'd remove 'moron' from the post,

 

Will do. Seems too offensive.

 

J

Edited May 30, 2018 by Stardew Shelly

[Paleblood]

1 hour ago, Deluziion90 said:

I rather faceroll through remastered and know where to go instead of searching for ages. Thanks for the heads up btw about googling the best weapon I know you read my post in DS:Remastered. Didn't know it would "offend" you this much.

 

I'm not offended in the slightest, if anything it makes me a bit sad to see this. I just think you're robbing a portion of fun from yourself. It's your beer to drink, not mine though.

As always, just an opinion. I can't make you do anything different and I surely don't want to, I just wanted to get my thoughts out there.

 

J

[DrBloodmoney]

12 minutes ago, Stardew Shelly said:

I just think it's wrong to tell someone they have to keep their shield up in order to beat this game. That is complete nonsense but still is the main thing I see all the time. I love to watch people tackle Dark Souls for the first time, this just bugs me. They always have a friend who told 'em exactly that. If it's your playstyle after fucking around with some different stuff, cool. Kudos to you, enjoy your game.

I don't want you guys to get hung up on the shield part .

 

I’m actually Greatsword/Magic-shield at the moment in DS Remastered -

I had forgotten that my beloved Twin-Blade didn’t get added into the series until DS2 (controversial opinion alert: the best Souls game )

[Paleblood]

3 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

I’m actually Greatsword/Magic-shield at the moment in DS Remastered -

I had forgotten that my beloved Twin-Blade didn’t get added into the series until DS2 (controversial opinion alert: the best Souls game )

 

It's not my favorite game in the series but I'd say it's highly underrated.

Actually my least favorite Souls game is indeed Dark Souls 1. Now that is a controversial opinion I imagine 

 

J

Edited May 30, 2018 by Stardew Shelly

[DrBloodmoney]

6 minutes ago, Stardew Shelly said:

 

It's not my favorite game in the series but I'd say it's highly underrated.

Actually my least favorite Souls game is indeed Dark Souls 1. Now that is a controversial opinion I imagine 

 

 

I think it is, but it’s one I share!

 

I think Dark Souls 1 is the weakest of the 3, but being the weakest of a list of fantastic games still puts it far above most other games.

 

DS1 is a ‘mere’ 9/10  

[Paleblood]

41 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

I think it is, but it’s one I share!

 

I think Dark Souls 1 is the weakest of the 3, but being the weakest of a list of fantastic games still puts it far above most other games.

 

DS1 is a ‘mere’ 9/10  

I completely agree to every word of this.

 

My list would be:

1. Bloodborne
2. Dark Souls 3
3. Dark Souls 2
4. Demon's Souls
5. Dark Souls

 

And I love to play every single one of them. ?

 

J

Edited May 30, 2018 by Stardew Shelly

[DrBloodmoney]

22 minutes ago, Stardew Shelly said:

I completely agree to every word of this.

 

My list would be:

1. Bloodborne
2. Dark Souls 3
3. Dark Souls 2
4. Demon's Souls
5. Dark Souls

 

And I love to play every single one of them.

 

Ah, well, I still prefer DS1 to Demon’s Souls, but the difference is a matter of degrees. Mine would Probably be:

 

1. Dark Souls 2

2. Salt and Sanctuary

3. Dark Souls 3

4. Bloodborne

5. Dark Souls 1

6. The Surge

7. Demon’s Souls

...

some space

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some more space

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zzzz

....

zzzz

....

wha? What? Where am I?

....

oh yeah, the list!

....

....

some more space

....

....

8. Lords of the Fallen

 

Not played Nioh yet, but I’ll get to it one day!

Edited May 30, 2018 by DrBloodmoney