Spyro 2 and Year of the Dragon not on Reignited Trilogy disc

[AJ_Radio]

On 8/6/2018 at 1:52 AM, Martain2 said:

 

@Dragon-Archon

 

Saying future generations won't be interested in Spyro, you are talking about a remake of a 20 year old series which blatantly shows proof that people will have an interest in it.

 

People still buy and download movies from fucking 50 - 80+ years ago, so there's definitely an interest.

 

Hell a fair amount of people got the Arcade Game Series Pac Man and Ms Pac Man titles, and those games are coming up on 40 years old.

 

On 8/6/2018 at 2:17 AM, LegacyJKO09 said:

exactly. megaman just did this. 2 collections on 2 discs. they easily could have all fit on 1 I'm sure. same with spyro...

 

That was retail done right.

 

The Crash Bandicoot games are I believe just under 25 GBs total, still plenty of space to put onto the PS4 Blu-Ray discs. Assuming that the Spyro games will take up a bit more space, Activision easily could of came out with two discs, just like the Megaman X Collection did.

 

But nope. They decided to just release the first game and force everyone else to download the other two. So why even bother having a physical release at all?

 

21 hours ago, Dragon-Archon said:

Pretty much the same thing as usual: fix it if possible or move on. Likewise, I can ask you: what if physical copies of Spyro aren't sold anymore and the disc breaks? What's the point in worrying about that now? It might happen, it might not. You could also get hit by a car tomorrow, fall from the stairs a week from now and break your neck, or die in some other way before the release of the Reignited Trilogy and still don't get to play it. Instead of worrying, we should be looking forward to playing the games and be glad they got remade.

 

Seriously, what is with people making a huge deal out of this . It seems like you're expecting the patch to become unavailable a short time after the release. Contrary to what it might seem now, it's not the end of the world: you can extract data from the hard drive or even put the HDD in another PS4 and eventually you will move on to other games. If there's enough money to be earned, there might also be full physical releases and future re-releases.

 

You fail to understand that not everybody has a rock solid internet connection that can download a 20 - 50 GB game in a matter of a few short hours or within a hour if their speeds are fast enough.

 

Buying physical can save people a lot of time because the core game is installed on the PS4 from the disc, not from the PSN servers if you bought digital. Would you rather wait 8 - 10 hours for a 50 GB game to download, or wait several minutes for the patch files to install?

 

You still have to download the patches, and in some cases it is basically mandatory. But it definitely helps not having to wait several hours.

 

I talked with someone here who said they are on a crappy internet connection with a very small data cap. Sadly in many areas out here in the States that is your only option, believe me I've been there. Even in some cities you don't have all that good of internet.

 

The Netherlands is a much smaller country and I can imagine they have a much better time managing their internet companies. A number of companies in Western Europe provide pretty rock solid internet for reasonable prices, as opposed to here in the States we have to pay an arm and a leg if we want really good service. The cable companies here like to nickel and dime everyone to make more money, that's been their motive for the past decade.

 

So while I'm sure the Spyro Re-ignited trilogy will be a trio of great games, the fact that the Crash Bandicoot trilogy was all on disc and this isn't leads me to believe this was entirely Activision's doing.

 

And this isn't the first time they pulled this crap. Modern Warfare Remastered was only initially available by buying the Call of Duty Infinite Warfare Deluxe Edition. You had to be forced to download to play the single player campaign of Call of Duty: WWII, if I'm not mistaken.

 

Activision is full of shit. They are just as bad as EA. Plus they delisted a bunch of stuff from the Playstation Store.

 

Having everything digital in my opinion isn't the best way to go.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Spaz

[Dragon-Archon]

5 minutes ago, Spaz said:

You fail to understand that not everybody has a rock solid internet connection that can download a 20 - 50 GB in a matter of a few short hours or within a hour if their speeds are fast enough.

 

Buying physical can save people a lot of time because the core game is installed on the PS4 from the disc, not from the PSN servers if you bought digital. Would you rather wait 8 - 10 hours for a 50 GB game to download, or wait several minutes for the patch files to install?

 

You still have to download the patches, and in some cases it is basically mandatory. But it definitely helps not having to wait several hours.

 

I talked with someone here who said they are on a crappy internet connection with a very small data cap. Sadly in many areas out here in the States that is your only option, believe me I've been there. Even in some cities you don't have all that good of internet.

 

The Netherlands is a much smaller country and I can imagine they have a much better time managing their internet companies. A number of companies in Western Europe provide pretty rock solid internet for reasonable prices, as opposed to here in the States we have to pay an arm and a leg if we want really good service. The cable companies here like to nickel and dime everyone to make more money, that's been their motive for the past decade.

 

So while I'm sure the Spyro Re-ignited trilogy will be a trio of great games, the fact that the Crash Bandicoot trilogy was all on disc and this isn't leads me to believe this was entirely Activision's doing.

 

And this isn't the first time they pulled this crap. Modern Warfare Remastered was only initially available by buying the Call of Duty Infinite Warfare Deluxe Edition. You had to be forced to download to play the single player campaign of Call of Duty: WWII, if I'm not mistaken.

 

Activision is full of shit. They are just as bad as EA. Plus they delisted a bunch of stuff from the Playstation Store.

 

Having everything digital in my opinion isn't the best way to go.

Oh I can definitely relate to that, my internet connection downloads around 6GB per hour. While there isn't a data cap, it's not fast either.

[DrakeHellsing]

Looks like 2 and 3 really are a download on their own:

 

 

It does seem to be to do with the file size as well.  But yeah, looks like those with terrible or no internet will have a tough time downloading 2 and 3 now.

Edited August 8, 2018 by DrakeHellsing

[crimsonidol38]

Well fuck, if it's really the whole two games I wonder if it makes sense to get the retail disc at all. Now the only thing I'm not so sure about:
Does the size listed in those icons normally only include the size for the content that is copied from the disc or is it disc plus any day 1-patches that are already known for? If it's the disc only I wonder why they need 50GB for Spyro 1 alone. Have never heard of something called compression (or cleaning up to remove unneeded assets etc.)?

[Dragon-Archon]

1 hour ago, DrakeHellsing said:

Looks like 2 and 3 really are a download on their own:

 

 

It does seem to be to do with the file size as well.  But yeah, looks like those with terrible or no internet will have a tough time downloading 2 and 3 now.

 

At 1:34 in the video: I'm surprised Activision has an office in the Netherlands.

[crimsonidol38]

2 minutes ago, Dragon-Archon said:

 

At 1:34 in the video: I'm surprised Activision has an office in the Netherlands.

 

Can't you use one of your methods to convince them to make a proper release with all games on disc?

[Dragon-Archon]

7 minutes ago, Crimson Idol said:

 

Can't you use one of your methods to convince them to make a proper release with all games on disc?

I can try .

[DrakeHellsing]

3 minutes ago, Dragon-Archon said:

I can try .

Burst into the headquarters, preferably clothed and demand to see the person in charge.  The plan will be flawless.

[Dragon-Archon]

3 minutes ago, DrakeHellsing said:

Burst into the headquarters, preferably clothed and demand to see the person in charge.  The plan will be flawless.

How about this:

Bursting into the office (0:51-1:16)

Spoiler

 

 

[Lance_87]

5 hours ago, DrakeHellsing said:

Looks like 2 and 3 really are a download on their own:

 

 

It does seem to be to do with the file size as well.  But yeah, looks like those with terrible or no internet will have a tough time downloading 2 and 3 now.

 

Oh it's like the TLOU demo included with God of War Ascension on PS3 then? No codes included IIRC, but when you chose to install it, a small client was tied to your PSN account. Then you download the client and then the demo itself by using that client.

 

I guess it'll still require the disc to be inserted in the drive in order to play them, unlike the TLOU demo lol.

Edited August 8, 2018 by Lance_87

[soniq]

On 3.8.2018 at 1:41 PM, madbuk said:

The problem is that that patch isn't always going to be available. I can go and put my Spyro 1, 2 and 3 discs into my PS3 and play them, and I will be able to forever. Disc rot could get to them, but disc rot isn't much of a problem these days. When PSN eventually goes down, and it will, just like XBL and Steam wont be eternal either, Spyro 2 and 3 remastered will be lost forever. You're stuck with one third of the content you purchased with no way to remedy that. I mean I'll probably be dead before that happens, but it's a shame for the future generations to be robbed of these classics, and they're just going to start missing out on more and more as this becomes common practice.

All of these services won't disappear over night. If they go down, chances are that the majority of users will have moved to a different service where Activision will sell their back catalog on. And if they go under, somebody will buy the rights. The Spyro games were published by Universal Interactive originally.

This won't be the final version of the game. You can be sure that they will be re-released eventually.

 

How many backup PS3s do you own? Because eventually your hardware will also fail. The motor that moves the laser back on forth will stop working someday.

 

Btw: Tell that fable about physical games living forever to people who own old cartridges with empty save-batteries.

[SnowxSakura]

16 minutes ago, soniq said:

All of these services won't disappear over night. If they go down, chances are that the majority of users will have moved to a different service where Activision will sell their back catalog on. And if they go under, somebody will buy the rights. The Spyro games were published by Universal Interactive originally.

This won't be the final version of the game. You can be sure that they will be re-released eventually.

 

How many backup PS3s do you own? Because eventually your hardware will also fail. The motor that moves the laser back on forth will stop working someday.

 

Btw: Tell that fable about physical games living forever to people who own old cartridges with empty save-batteries.

Old cartridges can be fixed. The usual reason they stop working is the capacitors go bad in them, or the fuse blows. Save batteries can be replaced too

 

To add to that, you can replace a blu ray drive on the PS3, you'd be amazed how many 3rd party companies manufacture replacement parts for old consoles

Edited August 8, 2018 by SnowxSakura

[AndresLionheart]

14 minutes ago, soniq said:

Btw: Tell that fable about physical games living forever to people who own old cartridges with empty save-batteries.

Because saving to a small RAM fueled by a battery is the same as saving to and HDD or SSD that doesn't require any electricity to keep the information saved. Still, even if you can't save, the games work perfectly anyway.

 

I can see HDDs failing over the years due to the mechanical components, but something saved to an SSD will last a long, long time. And my 20 years-old N64 game saves are sill there somehow, who knows when those will die.

Edited August 8, 2018 by AndresLionheart

[soniq]

30 minutes ago, SnowxSakura said:

Old cartridges can be fixed. The usual reason they stop working is the capacitors go bad in them, or the fuse blows. Save batteries can be replaced too

 

To add to that, you can replace a blu ray drive on the PS3, you'd be amazed how many 3rd party companies manufacture replacement parts for old consoles

I know that those can be replaced, but not everybody has the skill or required tools to open up a cartridge and solder in a new battery. Same as with swapping out a defective disc drive in a console. Who, except for serious gamers or collectors, is going to do that? For how many more years are you going to get spare parts? 10? 20? My point is that having a physical disc of an old PS1 game doesn't mean that it's guaranteed to work forever.

Madbuk wrote that with the patch eventually not being available, the game will be lost to future generations, as if the upcoming remake will be the only version to ever exist of this game.

 

24 minutes ago, AndresLionheart said:

Because saving to a small RAM fueled by a battery is the same as saving to and HDD or SSD that doesn't require any electricity to keep the information saved. Still, even if you can't save, the games work perfectly anyway.

 

I can see HDDs failing over the years due to the mechanical components, but something saved to an SSD will last a long, long time. And my 20 years-old N64 game saves are sill there somehow, who knows when those will die.

No it's not the same, but that wasn't my point. Madbuk's argument sounds like having a physical copy guarantees that it will work forever without problems, which is not true.

But sure, the games still work without being able to save. Enjoy finishing games that longer than a couple of hours.

 

I had 2 failing SSDs at work so far, with complete dataloss. So it's not like they impeccable in regards to datasafety. Which would also be no problem in the case of the Spyro collection, because you can just redownload the required patches. No problem.

Can't speak to N64 cartridges. Didn't they change something so that data could be saved without the need for a battery?

 

edit: The comment about games that won't let you save working perfectly is actually quite funny, considering people on here talk about games being broken if a trophy is glitched and won't unlock, even though everything else works fine.

Edited August 8, 2018 by soniq

[SnowxSakura]

3 minutes ago, soniq said:

I know that those can be replaced, but not everybody has the skill or required tools to open up a cartridge and solder in a new battery. Same as with swapping out a defective disc drive in a console. Who, except for serious gamers or collectors, is going to do that? For how many more years are you going to get spare parts? 10? 20? My point is that having a physical disc of an old PS1 game doesn't mean that it's guaranteed to work forever.

Madbuk wrote that with the patch eventually not being available, the game will be lost to future generations, as if the upcoming remake will be the only version to ever exist of this game.

 

No it's not the same, but that wasn't my point. Madbuk's argument sounds like having a physical copy guarantees that it will work forever without problems, which is not true.

But sure, the games still work without being able to save. Enjoy finishing games that longer than a couple of hours.

 

I had 2 failing SSDs at work so far, with complete dataloss. So it's not like they impeccable in regards to datasafety. Which would also be no problem in the case of the Spyro collection, because you can just redownload the required patches. No problem.

Can't speak to N64 cartridges. Didn't they change something so that data could be saved without the need for a battery?

You don't really need any skill for either of those, a disc drive is just opening up the console, unscrewing the posts that hold it in place, undoing the ribbon cable and then you put the new one in. For cartridge batteries, all you do is heat up a solder iron, and touch the metal clip on both sides of the battery to remove it, and then repeat the process when you put the new one in. The only time repairs get difficult is when you're replacing components on the motherboard

 

N64 has memory cards you can use

[soniq]

1 minute ago, SnowxSakura said:

You don't really need any skill for either of those, a disc drive is just opening up the console, unscrewing the posts that hold it in place, undoing the ribbon cable and then you put the new one in. For cartridge batteries, all you do is heat up a solder iron, and touch the metal clip on both sides of the battery to remove it, and then repeat the process when you put the new one in. The only time repairs get difficult is when you're replacing components on the motherboard

Easy for you to say when you have done that before, but tell that to people who have never soldered anything ever in their life.   You have to be an enthusiast to take any kind of hardware apart and try to fix it. This might be true for people who are posting on messageboards like this one, but not the general public. The PS3 is relatively new and popular, and you can always get a PS2 or even PS1 if you want to play PS1 games, but what are you going to do if something in your Sega Saturn breaks? Or your Atari Jaguar? Pretty sure that those have games that fit Madbuk's argument ,of getting lost forever for future generations, much better than the upcoming Spyro collection, just because it requires a patch.

[SnowxSakura]

10 minutes ago, soniq said:

Easy for you to say when you have done that before, but tell that to people who have never soldered anything ever in their life.   You have to be an enthusiast to take any kind of hardware apart and try to fix it. This might be true for people who are posting on messageboards like this one, but not the general public. The PS3 is relatively new and popular, and you can always get a PS2 or even PS1 if you want to play PS1 games, but what are you going to do if something in your Sega Saturn breaks? Or your Atari Jaguar? Pretty sure that those have games that fit Madbuk's argument ,of getting lost forever for future generations, much better than the upcoming Spyro collection, just because it requires a patch.

I had never soldered before when I replaced the battery in my Earthbound cart and I found it easy. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Already had to replace the laser in the saturn, but it's less likely the jaguar would break since it has no moving parts in it, compared to CD based units. Now if it was the jaguar cd on the other hand that was notorious to fail and sold abysmally then you'd probably be boned.

 

Besides if you care enough to want to play your physical copies decades after their release, then you'd care enough to learn how to fix them when they break

Edited August 8, 2018 by SnowxSakura

[soniq]

4 minutes ago, SnowxSakura said:

Now if it was the jaguar cd on the other hand that was notorious to fail and sold abysmally then you'd probably be boned.

My mistake, I meant to say the Jaguar CD drive.

Like I said, I'm not talking about enthusiasts like you or other people here who have enough interest in gaming to take apart and fix their stuff. Madbuk wrote about future generations, as in our children's children, not being able to play Spyro on PS4 in the year 2050, because PSN will be offline, but his PS1 discs will still work on his PS3.

 

My definition of future generations are people who haven't been born yet, so I apologize if anybody reading this is a grandparent. But in that case your personal future generations will at least be able to play Spyro on PS4 without any fear of the patch not downloading withing the next 2-3 years. ?

[AndresLionheart]

42 minutes ago, soniq said:

Can't speak to N64 cartridges. Didn't they change something so that data could be saved without the need for a battery?

 

edit: The comment about games that won't let you save working perfectly is actually quite funny, considering people on here talk about games being broken if a trophy is glitched and won't unlock, even though everything else works fine.

Not completely sure how N64 games save really, I just expected all saves on cartridges to work the same, lol.

What I mean about the game working is that you can play it, you don't need any patch.

It's not like discs are gonna be always readable anyway either. If the reader fails and spare parts don't exist anymore, then it's just as worthless.

 

42 minutes ago, SnowxSakura said:

N64 has memory cards you can use

You mean the Memory packs that go into the controller? A los of games don't use that and it's not an option.

For example, Goemon's Great Adventure saves ONLY to the memory pack (it has no save feature on the cartridge), most other games save ONLY to the cartridge. Then there are games like Excitebike that saves progress to the cartridge and custom tracks have an option to be stored on the cartridge or the memory pack.

[madbuk]

1 hour ago, soniq said:

All of these services won't disappear over night. If they go down, chances are that the majority of users will have moved to a different service where Activision will sell their back catalog on. And if they go under, somebody will buy the rights. The Spyro games were published by Universal Interactive originally.

This won't be the final version of the game. You can be sure that they will be re-released eventually.

 

How many backup PS3s do you own? Because eventually your hardware will also fail. The motor that moves the laser back on forth will stop working someday.

 

Btw: Tell that fable about physical games living forever to people who own old cartridges with empty save-batteries.

I have a back-up PS3, which I am very glad about. Only have one Vita and have been tempted to import another just in preparation for when mine eventually dies... so expensive though

 

I don't recall ever saying physical games live forever, obviously they do not. But it would be much harder for Activision to get rid of every disc of Spyro than it would be to make the patch unavailable. If PS1 games still play perfectly fine, I don't really have any concerns that the potentially 1m+ copies of Spyro with modern blu-ray discs are all going to become unusable within my lifetime. I can't be as confident in my belief that all my digital games will be around for all of my lifetime.

[Martain2]

7 hours ago, Crimson Idol said:

Well fuck, if it's really the whole two games I wonder if it makes sense to get the retail disc at all. Now the only thing I'm not so sure about:
Does the size listed in those icons normally only include the size for the content that is copied from the disc or is it disc plus any day 1-patches that are already known for? If it's the disc only I wonder why they need 50GB for Spyro 1 alone. Have never heard of something called compression (or cleaning up to remove unneeded assets etc.)?

I'd still recommend getting the physical version over digital, you'll have to download 33% less plus it will still be cheaper (especially if not bought on release) and will have at least some resale value if you choose to sell it on in the future. 

I wouldn't be surprised if Activision did this to try and push more people buying digital as a subtle way to reduce the used market over time but without being so blatant to cause an uproar as big as the Xbox One. 

 

Remember not a single part of any of this fiasco has been done to benefit the customer only themselves. 

Edited August 8, 2018 by Martain2

[VeldinX]

Does it not annoy anyone else that they’re not calling Spyro 2 “Gateway to Glimmer” on the EU release of this but have instead opted for the NA title “Ripto’s Rage” worldwide?

Edited August 8, 2018 by dell9300

[HuntingFever]

3 minutes ago, dell9300 said:

Does it not annoy anyone else that they’re not calling Spyro 2 “Gateway to Glimmer” on the EU release of this but have instead opted for the NA title “Ripto’s Rage” worldwide?

No. In fact I'm delighted they're using the US versions of 2 and 3 because then I won't encounter the gamebreaking glitch again that was in the EU versions where certain Orbs would glitch and not count, thus preventing you from reaching 120% completion.

Edited August 8, 2018 by HuntingFever
Update.

[VeldinX]

1 minute ago, HuntingFever said:

No. In fact I'm delighted they're using the US versions of 2 and 3 because then I won't encounter the gamebreaking glitch again where certain Orbs would glitch and not count, thus preventing you from reaching 120% completion.

 

True, but they're remakes anyway so wouldn’t have the glitches the originals did anyway. The title on the other hand is just a marketing thing and most of us outside NA know it by the “Gateway to Glimmer” name. Just a thought. 

[VelikyNovgorod4]

Honestly this is a controversy worth boycotting Activision over. But oh ho it's Spyro and we all love Spyro so of course we're gonna buy it anyway.

Edited August 8, 2018 by VelikyNovgorod4