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Zanzarro

Zanzarro's Dispute

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Zanzarro

Dark Souls II
Have no proof since i did this almost 4 years ago but i kept turning off my ps3 when i died to avoid getting the Die the 1st time trophy and ended up popping the Reclaim Flesh trophy exactly 3 times + getting trophies in random order even though i unlocked them with their requirements. Again, i have no proof since i did this 4 years ago and have nothing to show about this bug/glitch that happens when you turn off the console when it registers a trophy and tries to show you, you unlocked it.

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It's not for dying, it's story related. It's the house you get to at the start of the game. Basically, you skipped ahead of it, meaning it's likely you used some kind of starter save.

 

2018_09_18_18h30_07.png

 

That doesn't make your story seem all that much more plausible either.

Edited by MMDE
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11 minutes ago, Zanzarro said:

Zanzarro

Dark Souls II
Have no proof since i did this almost 4 years ago but i kept turning off my ps3 when i died to avoid getting the Die the 1st time trophy and ended up popping the Reclaim Flesh trophy exactly 3 times + getting trophies in random order even though i unlocked them with their requirements. Again, i have no proof since i did this 4 years ago and have nothing to show about this bug/glitch that happens when you turn off the console when it registers a trophy and tries to show you, you unlocked it.

Honestly who would play a game like this and why? The excuses people use when they get caught cheating get more bizarre each time I see them....

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4 minutes ago, rolltideroll157 said:

Honestly who would play a game like this and why? The excuses people use when they get caught cheating get more bizarre each time I see them....

 

Er, there are probably quite a few people who have tried to do what the OP said. Lots of people wanted to get the "die for the first time" trophy as their last trophy, as a badge of honor to show that they earned their platinum without dying. There's nothing bizarre about that.

 

I don't see how this could possibly lead to the OP's timestamps though. There's no risk of dying at the time when you should earn the first story-related trophy, so why would the console have been turned off yet to mess with it popping? And why would it then pop later mid-game before even finishing the game?

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All i can do is start a new account, get Dark Souls 2 and retry the whole "plat no death run".  Like I said, I can't prove what actually happened so that's the most I can do to prove I really done it.

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If MMDE says it ain't possible, I'm going to have to go with him...he seems to be up on everything that is the Dark Souls series...

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2 hours ago, PSXtreme_ said:

If MMDE says it ain't possible, I'm going to have to go with him...he seems to be up on everything that is the Dark Souls series...

 

26 minutes ago, Dark said:

 

If everybody thought like this then there’d be no point even having a dispute system.

 

I mean, he did say it was because he "seems to be up on everything that is the Dark Souls series" and I can agree with that, but still people can make mistakes in their judgement and that's why disputing flags is an option. In this game, the flagged user also skipped the very first trophy that everyone gets, one that is even more common than having your first death on the game, so what @MMDE is looking for is an explanation of how they'd skip that. 

Edited by Sergen
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Yeah, the trophy in question, Self Recollection, is not related to dying or anything like that. At the start of the game you go through a house with an old lady. You must go through this house, and it's where you get to set what your character's name is etc. The trophy pop after this. What Zanzarro did was not just get past that, but he beat several bosses, some somewhat difficult areas too for a new player before popping the trophy. Yes, his last trophy was that of dying, but that's irrelevant.

 

I'm not as into Dark Souls 2, but I know you gotta get to NG++ before you can purchase some of the last spells:

 

2018_09_18_18h30_07.png

 

Which makes this very suspicious. Sure, you can do some online covenants, which takes a lot of time, and you're definitely bound to die a lot, but then they get all of these in somewhat quick succession after beating the game. :S What is up with that? Well, there's trophies for each covenant, and people can try to do the math if it's possible from the time he joined 'em etc, might be what he did.

 

Regardless, he still skipped the first story related and unmissable trophy.

 

3 hours ago, Zanzarro said:

and ended up popping the Reclaim Flesh trophy exactly 3 times + getting trophies in random order even though i unlocked them with their requirements

 

 

And this makes little sense to me. How do you have a trophy pop 3 times? What did you do with it after the first time?

Edited by MMDE
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3 hours ago, MMDE said:

I know you gotta get to NG++ before you can purchase some of the last spells:

 

Yes.  The last Miracles and Pyromancies are towards the end of NG++.  The only other way to get them is to max out the two-PVP centered covenants.  Even if you did that without dying (let's say that's possible) the two trhopies would not have pop'd close together.  That also doesn't work since Selfless Giver came only minutes before the all Pyromancies and all Miracles trophies.   

 

So, unless I'm missing something he would need to have speedrun NG+ and 90%ish of NG++ in 40 minutes stopping along the way to max a covenant. 

 

Some people have done 20 minute speedruns...so, this might be possible if you are an absolute Dark Souls 2 god.  Still doesn't explain why Self Recollection isn't the first trophy.

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I suspect what might have happened is that they deleted the local user after earning the trophy for dying, and so the first story related trophy was deleted as well. This is the only thing that makes sense to me in terms of them having earned it 3 times because they died. Well, nobody can tell in the case of the death one, but the story related one people can tell, and it's against the leaderboard rules. It also doesn't make too much sense to me to delete each time you earn the first death trophy and use the save from this, when you don't actually legitimately do what you seem to want to accomplish and you don't earn the special item for doing this in-game, because the save will have deaths on it.

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13 minutes ago, MMDE said:

I suspect what might have happened is that they deleted the local user after earning the trophy for dying, and so the first story related trophy was deleted as well. This is the only thing that makes sense to me in terms of them having earned it 3 times because they died. Well, nobody can tell in the case of the death one, but the story related one people can tell, and it's against the leaderboard rules. It also doesn't make too much sense to me to delete each time you earn the first death trophy and use the save from this, when you don't actually legitimately do what you seem to want to accomplish and you don't earn the special item for doing this in-game, because the save will have deaths on it.

 

They just want people to look at their trophies for Dark Souls II and think "wow, he did that game without deaths", considering the game is designed to be unforgiving and people die hundreds of times. Although it might be getting personal, this guy makes a lot of posts in threads down-voting difficulty of trophies and telling people he did things the "hard way". But yeah, I think by messing up the time stamps, you can safely say this does breach the rules of the site, I do think he's a legit achiever but not legit with time stamps so it has to stay flagged regardless. 

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11 minutes ago, Sergen said:

 

They just want people to look at their trophies for Dark Souls II and think "wow, he did that game without deaths", considering the game is designed to be unforgiving and people die hundreds of times. Although it might be getting personal, this guy makes a lot of posts in threads down-voting difficulty of trophies and telling people he did things the "hard way". But yeah, I think by messing up the time stamps, you can safely say this does breach the rules of the site, I do think he's a legit achiever but not legit with time stamps so it has to stay flagged regardless. 

 

I never died hundreds of times. People just gotta be more careful. I get people die like 20-30 times, but hundreds? Git gud! ;)

 

The way he got many of the spells are a bit off too of the usual pattern, but seems he joined a covenant and then spent a lot of time on it etc, but not checked the exact details on this yet. I think he should explain it. It's all strange and definitely not natural, and definitely trophy out of order.

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1 hour ago, MMDE said:

I suspect what might have happened is that they deleted the local user after earning the trophy for dying, and so the first story related trophy was deleted as well. This is the only thing that makes sense to me in terms of them having earned it 3 times because they died. Well, nobody can tell in the case of the death one, but the story related one people can tell, and it's against the leaderboard rules. It also doesn't make too much sense to me to delete each time you earn the first death trophy and use the save from this, when you don't actually legitimately do what you seem to want to accomplish and you don't earn the special item for doing this in-game, because the save will have deaths on it.

 

1 hour ago, Sergen said:

 

But yeah, I think by messing up the time stamps, you can safely say this does breach the rules of the site, I do think he's a legit achiever but not legit with time stamps so it has to stay flagged regardless. 

 

I haven't played the game so I don't know anything about the time required between the pyromancies, hexes, etc, but I have a question regarding this skipped first trophy.

For clarification, say he did what you've said above and deleted the local user and then inadvertently deleted the first trophy, then continued on from there and then unlocked it down the track... if this is the only issue with the game, why waste a flag on something that seems so trivial? I mean, aside from that one trophy being out of order, how would it influence the leaderboards?

As I said, I know nothing of this game yet; this is strictly an understanding of the flagging system question.

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Thought that was quite clear: Having skipped a story-related, unmissable trophy is a sign of abnormal gameplay.

 

And 9/10 times indicates savefile usage.

 

MMDE gave an alternate explanation due to the disputer’s own description (‘trophy popping 3 times’) which is still not wanted on the leaderboards but would explain the disputer’s unusual trophy pattern.

 

And it’s clearly more than one trophy that’s somewhat questionable.

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24 minutes ago, hBLOXs said:

Thought that was quite clear: Having skipped a story-related, unmissable trophy is a sign of abnormal gameplay.

 

And 9/10 times indicates savefile usage.

 

MMDE gave an alternate explanation due to the disputer’s own description (‘trophy popping 3 times’) which is still not wanted on the leaderboards but would explain the disputer’s unusual trophy pattern.

 

And it’s clearly more than one trophy that’s somewhat questionable.

But if the unmissable first trophy was skipped accidently due to deleting the local profile though, couldn't it not be a sign of abnormal gameplay but instead an accidental screw up while trying to avoid the died for the first time trophy?

Also I see this a bit in the dispute threads, 'not wanted on the leaderboards.' What is it about the accidental (assuming it was) skipping of the first trophy that isn't wanted on the leaderboards? I mean, I understand some of the using your old save to pop 10 trophies in 5 seconds ones, but this one is merely having skipped the first trophy accidently (supposedly). As you said, MMDE has provided what may have happened for this occur... 

I normally don't comment on these threads because they're usually fairly straight forward, but this one has me curious as to the extent of what gets flagged and banned in these parts and how much evidence is needed to do so... especially in what seems like unusual circumstances?

As I said before though, I haven't played it so I don't know what the other questionable trophies you're talking about are.

 

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I haven’t played the game either. I read the thread.

 

And deleting the local user is ‘not wanted on the leaderboards’ because it’s a way to manipulate timestamps just like savefile use is.

 

Deleting your local user while continuing with your savefile is basically a complicated form of savefile using.

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8 minutes ago, hBLOXs said:

I haven’t played the game either. I read the thread.

 

And deleting the local user is ‘not wanted on the leaderboards’ because it’s a way to manipulate timestamps just like savefile use is.

 

Deleting your local user while continuing with your savefile is basically a complicated form of savefile using.

Sure, and that makes sense in a 'popped 10 trophies in 5 seconds' situation but in this particular one, apart from the first trophy not popping, was anything else affected by it? As in, did he advance up the leaderboards in an unnatural way or anything like that? If not, it seems like a pretty harsh zero tolerance approach, no?

I mean, again assuming that this all happened legitimately, I'd be pretty annoyed if I got flagged because this happened to me and I had to hide Dark Souls 2 plat because of it... not that it would as I don't care for the die first time trophy happening naturally. 

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But this is not something that ‘happens to you’. It’s trophy/timestamp manipulation. 

 

Do you really expect this site to drop the general rule that this is not allowed and do a case by case scrutiny instead?

Who’s to tell now how fast the OP would’ve completed their game legitimately? And how many others are therefore lower on the leaderboards than they deserve?

 

And you want somebody to do that for every game with an unusual trophy pattern? That’s not realistic, sorry.

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12 hours ago, MMDE said:

And this makes little sense to me. How do you have a trophy pop 3 times?

 

Kind of irrelevant to the topic, but yeah, this can happen :D 

 

I've popped trophies a second time once on a PS3 (Infamous), and there was one Vita game (Ultratron) that always rolled back my completion to 0 (in the trophy list, no less!), but when starting a new game, they popped all, over and over again, I immediately uninstalled it, and never looked back. Scary stuff.

 

Althought this didn't mess with the timestamps AFAIK.

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2 hours ago, kraven_15 said:

Sure, and that makes sense in a 'popped 10 trophies in 5 seconds' situation but in this particular one, apart from the first trophy not popping, was anything else affected by it? As in, did he advance up the leaderboards in an unnatural way or anything like that? If not, it seems like a pretty harsh zero tolerance approach, no?

I mean, again assuming that this all happened legitimately, I'd be pretty annoyed if I got flagged because this happened to me and I had to hide Dark Souls 2 plat because of it... not that it would as I don't care for the die first time trophy happening naturally. 

 

It is the excuse used by hundreds of people who have made a dispute thread. Why did they all remember to back up their save file before their console broke, but forgot to sync the trophies? In this case the guy tried to do a show off method, but wasn’t aware of every legitimate time stamp he should have had for the game. In the attempt to make the trophy list look easier for him, he screwed up and got time stamps in the wrong order. 

 

It complicates things less for the flagging team to assume people didn’t do the game legit when their time stamps aren’t legit. The disputer already says he can’t prove what he did was legit because he wasn’t documenting it with evidence and it’s not the best thing to blindly believe everyone who disputes flags when a lot of them lie about blatant save file use in an attempt to get unflagged. 

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20 hours ago, NathanielJohn said:

Er, there are probably quite a few people who have tried to do what the OP said. Lots of people wanted to get the "die for the first time" trophy as their last trophy, as a badge of honor to show that they earned their platinum without dying. There's nothing bizarre about that.

 

While that's true, I always find it a bit bizarre to try to prove that you never died simply by turning off the machine every time you did die. Neither here nor there, so I'll bow out here.

Edited by starcrunch061
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13 hours ago, Helmet_time said:

 

Yes.  The last Miracles and Pyromancies are towards the end of NG++.  The only other way to get them is to max out the two-PVP centered covenants.  Even if you did that without dying (let's say that's possible) the two trhopies would not have pop'd close together. 

 

They could, if you buy non-covenant spells for last. Something more simple. The usual method is of course to clean up everything before getting the more problematic spells, but it is entirely possible to purchase something trivial last.

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3 hours ago, fbdbh said:

 

They could, if you buy non-covenant spells for last. Something more simple. The usual method is of course to clean up everything before getting the more problematic spells, but it is entirely possible to purchase something trivial last.

 

Totally.  But the trophy for maxing a covenant pop'd shortly before the spell trophies.  Doing what you suggest would have required getting both the Brotherhood of Blood and Blue Sentinels to near max without dying (which is what, 1,000 PvP matches?).  Maxing one, switching to the other, maxing it, and then buying a trivial Miracle and Pyromancy in all three (3) minutes.

 

Even if you planned it (and why would you) isn't possible to do all that in the time available, the load times alone are probably going to be three minutes. 

Edited by Helmet_time
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43 minutes ago, Helmet_time said:

 

Totally.  But the trophy for maxing a covenant pop'd shortly before the spell trophies.  Doing what you suggest would have required getting both the Brotherhood of Blood and Blue Sentinels to near max without dying (which is what, 1,000 PvP matches?).  Maxing one, switching to the other, maxing it, and then buying a trivial Miracle and Pyromancy in all three (3) minutes.

 

Even if you planned it (and why would you) isn't possible to do all that in the time available, the load times alone are probably going to be three minutes. 

 

This is actually a really good point I totally forgot about. They didn't max any before that point.

 

Also, look at the hexes and abysmal covenant. Isn't that required for a hex? I can't remember at this point.

 

https://darksouls2.wiki.fextralife.com/Climax

 

That hex. So he did that and a bunch of other covenant stuff in that time?

 

I'm not saying it's impossible...

Edited by MMDE
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