Pulled From PSN Already! BUT 6 RECENT PLAYERS ! HOW?

[angelgrievous]

I'll go ahead and post my trophy card, sit back and let the friend request fly in.

[Smashero]

6 minutes ago, starcrunch061 said:

 

Are we in bizarro land here? 

 

It breaks copyright law. You are not allowed to download and share copyrighted material without the express permission of the copyright holder. Period. This has nothing to do with the TOS of Sony whatsoever.

 

Am I missing multiple sarcastic posts here? You and smashie aren't serious, right?

 

Oh well...

 

So... How to explain this then?

 

https://psnprofiles.com/trophies/4436-salt-and-sanctuary/starcrunch061

[Nitro]

8 minutes ago, starcrunch061 said:

 

Are we in bizarro land here? 

 

It breaks copyright law. You are not allowed to download and share copyrighted material without the express permission of the copyright holder. Period. This has nothing to do with the TOS of Sony whatsoever.

 

Am I missing multiple sarcastic posts here? You and smashie aren't serious, right?

It breaks copyright law, does it? 

I guess me lending a physical game to a friend breaks that law too.

Moreover, Sony wouldn't allow you to play your games on more than one console if it broke the law, would they?

[starcrunch061]

Just now, Smashero said:

 

Oh well...

 

So... How to explain this then?

 

https://psnprofiles.com/trophies/4436-salt-and-sanctuary/starcrunch061

 

I purchased the game with my own money? That's not game sharing. I hold the license to the game. The fact that I hold it on a different account may break some Sony TOS, but I assure you it does not break copyright law.

 

Is this some rationalization to say that paying for a game on a different account, whose home system is your own, and giving a game away to another human being is the same, simply because the games are tied to different accounts in both cases? That's insane.

[Smashero]

Aha:

 

 

Actual difference between PH and DG?

5 minutes ago, starcrunch061 said:

The fact that I hold it on a different account may break some Sony TOS, but I assure you it does not break copyright law.

Like... Providing false information while creating an account (country related)?

 

I hope you didn't answer yet - editing.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Smashero

[starcrunch061]

Just now, Nitro said:

It breaks copyright law, does it? 

I guess me lending a physical game to a friend breaks that law too.

 

Please don't make me explain this for literally the 4th time on this forum. They are two completely different things. In the case of the physical game, you assert ownership rights of the physical object you hold. When you lend out that physical object, you no longer hold it. This is within your right.

 

2 minutes ago, Nitro said:

Moreover, Sony wouldn't allow you to play your games on more than one console if it broke the law, would they?

 

Why does allowing you to play games on multiple consoles give you the right to give those games for free to other human beings? I mean, sure, you can say they're the same, but they're not. When Sony allowed people to download a game on up to 4 consoles, at no point did this mean that one person could buy a game and give it to three other people. 

 

Look, I don't care what you guys do. I certainly don't report people or anything lame like that. But God - don't just make up ridiculous (and, at least in the case of your equivalence between physical media and digital media, incorrect) arguments to support your views.

 

[Nitro]

Just now, starcrunch061 said:

 

Please don't make me explain this for literally the 4th time on this forum. They are two completely different things. In the case of the physical game, you assert ownership rights of the physical object you hold. When you lend out that physical object, you no longer hold it. This is within your right.

 

 

Why does allowing you to play games on multiple consoles give you the right to give those games for free to other human beings? I mean, sure, you can say they're the same, but they're not. When Sony allowed people to download a game on up to 4 consoles, at no point did this mean that one person could buy a game and give it to three other people. 

 

Look, I don't care what you guys do. I certainly don't report people or anything lame like that. But God - don't just make up ridiculous (and, at least in the case of your equivalence between physical media and digital media, incorrect) arguments to support your views.

 

Sure. So why does it change if it's digital or physical?

 

Reps from Sony have LITERALLY SAID you can give your activation to FAMILY OR FRIENDS to play games together.

[starcrunch061]

Just now, Smashero said:

Any difference between PH and DG? :D.

 

Of course there's a difference. I just explained it (again), and it's always been in place. You have total ownership rights to physical media, and you have the right to dispose of that media as you see fit. This lays no claim on the IP contained on the media, however. 

 

You do NOT have total ownership rights to digital media. This is clearly stated multiple times when you purchase it, and is pretty well codified in copyright law in the states and the EU. An easy comparison is music. You buy a CD - you can loan that CD to whomever you want. You buy a download, and you cannot.

[FielVeredus]

Whooo!

 

i am the first one who platinumed this gem!

 

i still want Slyde in my account but dont feel like top up my uk account.

Edited September 20, 2018 by FielVeredus

[Nitro]

4 minutes ago, starcrunch061 said:

 

Of course there's a difference. I just explained it (again), and it's always been in place. You have total ownership rights to physical media, and you have the right to dispose of that media as you see fit. This lays no claim on the IP contained on the media, however. 

 

You do NOT have total ownership rights to digital media. This is clearly stated multiple times when you purchase it, and is pretty well codified in copyright law in the states and the EU. An easy comparison is music. You buy a CD - you can loan that CD to whomever you want. You buy a download, and you cannot.

Wait...... Wait wait wait. Does that mean that anyone who has access to the PS4 that my account is activated on is breaking the law cause they didn't buy it?

[starcrunch061]

Just now, Nitro said:

Sure. So why does it change if it's digital or physical?

 

I explained it (now TWICE) in this thread.

 

1 minute ago, Nitro said:

Reps from Sony have LITERALLY SAID you can give your activation to FAMILY OR FRIENDS to play games together.

 

Not in the way that you describe. A person has every right to play a game that you have on any of your own activated systems. This does not, however, extend to giving the game away to "friends" by activating on their system by passing around your own user ID.

 

This is why the S&S argument doesn't hold legally, though it may break TOS. The account holder for the EU S&S (as well as the EU Axiom Verge) is me. I paid for the license on the account, and downloaded it to the system(s) that the account is tied (in this case only one, which must be owned by me).

 

The only argument you guys could make would be the following: download games to a system you own, and then sell the system itself to another person. My guess is that this is probably still illegal, but it's harder for me to see the legal reason why (and again, this isn't about Sony TOS, but rather, existing copyright law).

[Nitro]

2 minutes ago, starcrunch061 said:

 

I explained it (now TWICE) in this thread.

 

 

Not in the way that you describe. A person has every right to play a game that you have on any of your own activated systems. This does not, however, extend to giving the game away to "friends" by activating on their system by passing around your own user ID.

 

This is why the S&S argument doesn't hold legally, though it may break TOS. The account holder for the EU S&S (as well as the EU Axiom Verge) is me. I paid for the license on the account, and downloaded it to the system(s) that the account is tied (in this case only one, which must be owned by me).

 

The only argument you guys could make would be the following: download games to a system you own, and then sell the system itself to another person. My guess is that this is probably still illegal, but it's harder for me to see the legal reason why (and again, this isn't about Sony TOS, but rather, existing copyright law).

 

I highly doubt Sony would advertise such thing if it were against the law.

 

 

 

 

 

Moreover, are you saying that if you go halvies with your mate, that's breaking the law too? since both of you will play it?

Edited September 20, 2018 by Nitro

[starcrunch061]

5 minutes ago, Nitro said:

Wait...... Wait wait wait. Does that mean that anyone who has access to the PS4 that my account is activated on is breaking the law cause they didn't buy it?

 

You always keep ninja'ing me. I literally explain these things, but you post right before me.

 

The answer to that is no. For example, my wife who lives with me has the right to play any game that I've purchased. So too does my family, as well as friends who come over to my house, or friends to whom I bring my system (provided that I do this without care for profit).  And like I said, I don't know the legalities for selling a fully downloaded PS4 to someone that you owned prior. 

 

But simply sharing games across people, just because Sony allows you to download to multiple consoles. That is absolutely in violation of copyright law (both in letter and spirit). And I am weary because I can't finish posts before someone else posts earlier.

 

So yeah. Crooks. Ignorance of the law is not a defense. That being said, enjoy your ill-gotten gains for all I care. But don't pretend that what you do is legal.

 

4 minutes ago, Nitro said:

Moreover, are you saying that if you go halvies with your mate, that's breaking the law too? since both of you will play it?

 

Absolutely, if you download it to two different systems. That's actually even easier, since there is a clear profit angle here (whichever ID purchases the game is getting half of the money back by sharing it with someone else).

 

And I'm really done now. 

Edited September 20, 2018 by starcrunch061

[Nitro]

4 minutes ago, starcrunch061 said:

 

You always keep ninja'ing me. I literally explain these things, but you post right before me.

 

The answer to that is no. For example, my wife who lives with me has the right to play any game that I've purchased. So too does my family, as well as friends who come over to my house, or friends to whom I bring my system (provided that I do this without care for profit).  And like I said, I don't know the legalities for selling a fully downloaded PS4 to someone that you owned prior. 

 

But simply sharing games across people, just because Sony allows you to download to multiple consoles. That is absolutely in violation of copyright law (both in letter and spirit). And I am weary because I can't finish posts before someone else posts earlier.

 

So yeah. Crooks. Ignorance of the law is not a defense. That being said, enjoy your ill-gotten gains for all I care. But don't pretend that what you do is legal.

 

 

Absolutely, if you download it to two different systems. That's actually even easier, since there is a clear profit angle here (whichever ID purchases the game is getting half of the money back by sharing it with someone else).

 

And I'm really done now. 

But you do that with physical and it's a-okay?
That bring up pre-owned games too.

 

But you know what? You're right. Fuck Sony and their ability to let us save money. How dare they let us Share stuff with our family! What kind of law-breaking scum of a company are they...

[starcrunch061]

OK - one last thing. I will happily take back everything I have said, if you can show that Sony has made an arrangement with game developers who publish for the PS3/PS4 that the copyright law is suspended due to the "multiple console" rule. But I've looked, and I have never found it, and regardless of what Sony says, the law supersedes it.

 

8 minutes ago, Nitro said:

But you do that with physical and it's a-okay?
That bring up pre-owned games too.

 

No, it doesn't. Apples and oranges here. We've covered this ground.

 

There is no such thing as a pre-owned market for digital games. Know why? Because you don't actually own it. That's the point here.

 

27 minutes ago, Smashero said:

Like... Providing false information while creating an account (country related)?

 

I hope you didn't answer yet - editing.

 

I missed this!

 

Actually, I didn't put false information. You're asked for an address, and I own a house in Liege. It's not my primary residence, I'll grant, but I certainly see nothing in the TOS that says I can't use my own property to create an account. 

 

But that being said, it's entirely possible that I still broke TOS. However, that's a far cry from breaking US law.

Edited September 20, 2018 by starcrunch061

[Nitro]

3 minutes ago, starcrunch061 said:

OK - one last thing. I will happily take back everything I have said, if you can show that Sony has made an arrangement with game developers who publish for the PS3/PS4 that the copyright law is suspended due to the "multiple console" rule. But I've looked, and I have never found it, and regardless of what Sony says, the law supersedes it.

 

 

No, it doesn't. Apples and oranges here. We've covered this ground.

 

There is no such thing as a pre-owned market for digital games. Know why? Because you don't actually own it. That's the point here.

They haven't publicly. But Game developers haven't  bought it up either.

 

And no.  Not yet, but this is possibly in the works

 

[starcrunch061]

So listen guys, because I'm really done now. I don't begrudge your game sharing. Personally, I think Sony's whole, "Download to multiple consoles" is a farce (at the very least, the consoles shouldn't have simultaneous access), and it makes things confusing. But I see nothing where game sharing is legal by either US or EU copyright law. I would happy to be proven wrong. Unfortunately, the video that was linked, while passionate, doesn't do that. Neither does citing physical media, which has a completely different set of rules from digital media.

 

The funny thing is, I'm a huge proponent for digital ownership rights. It's the reason I argue so much about copyright now; I don't like digital producers to say that a large chunk of people are breaking the rules, and use this as a hammer to keep poor digital ownership rights in place. But my feelings are purely academic. Whether you game share or not, you're OK by me. Besides, I have lots of friends who are criminals. 

 

But seriously, the argument is fun for me, and I hope neither of you take it personally. I freely admit that I might be wrong. I just don't know why I would be.

[Nitro]

1 minute ago, starcrunch061 said:

So listen guys, because I'm really done now. I don't begrudge your game sharing. Personally, I think Sony's whole, "Download to multiple consoles" is a farce (at the very least, the consoles shouldn't have simultaneous access), and it makes things confusing. But I see nothing where game sharing is legal by either US or EU copyright law. I would happy to be proven wrong. Unfortunately, the video that was linked, while passionate, doesn't do that. Neither does citing physical media, which has a completely different set of rules from digital media.

 

The funny thing is, I'm a huge proponent for digital ownership rights. It's the reason I argue so much about copyright now; I don't like digital producers to say that a large chunk of people are breaking the rules, and use this as a hammer to keep poor digital ownership rights in place. But my feelings are purely academic. Whether you game share or not, you're OK by me. Besides, I have lots of friends who are criminals. 

 

But seriously, the argument is fun for me, and I hope neither of you take it personally. I freely admit that I might be wrong. I just don't know why I would be.

One final question. Why is it okay to break one rule, but not another? Seems kind of contradictory.

Plus, you are not a criminal until proven guilty in a curt of law. Now, I know that is Australian Law.

[Beyondthegrave07]

I just want to ask... Could you earn these doing shareplay? If someone else invited you to a shareplay session, would you earn the trophies as well? I was just curious. I've never used shareplay myself so idk. Not sure if that was a possibility as well.

[Smashero]

13 minutes ago, Beyondthegrave07 said:

I just want to ask... Could you earn these doing shareplay? If someone else invited you to a shareplay session, would you earn the trophies as well? I was just curious. I've never used shareplay myself so idk. Not sure if that was a possibility as well.

 

Simple answer - no. It is not shareplay.

[Stevieboy]

OP's question was discussed in this thread already: