Dievalheim

Spectral_Shadow's Dispute

71 posts in this topic

@B1rvine I suggest you test this:

 

23 hours ago, Zbir_Vladimir said:

I don't really want to continue this dispute as everyone already gave a verdict and i dont have time to fight against this mindset but here's my final thought

 

@MMDE posted this link

 

3rd post of Velenok actually supports my initial idea that there is more items for Enigma's Most Wanted mission required then relays and packs.

 

I googled and found a guide that confirms that by saying Enigma most wanted mission requires network relays, data packets and data handlers interrogated.

I think data handlers might be not needed for first riddler and it might cause popping them in this order. And this would be rare because most of people interrogate handlers first as they reveal locations so they don't need to use a guide.

 

https://guides.gamepressure.com/batmanarkhamorigins/guide.asp?ID=22399

 

Might follow this route out of curiosity when I will be doing sp for this game but this makes perfect sense to me. Especially that both jabber and Velenok unlocked Enigma unravelled and clean streets at the same time.

 

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30 minutes ago, kraven_15 said:

The sad reality in this situation mate is that nothing you say will prove anything. You can provide all the evidence you want, but unless you have a video of yourself playing the game and then everything happening as you said, it won't change their minds. The problem is the ones who lie about this stuff use glitches and freezes as their excuses and so the general assumption is anyone who says it is a cheater. This doesn't require any evidence because they don't need to prove your guilt, just that you have out of order or unusual trophies and unless you can prove otherwise, you obviously cheated. 

As far as lengths to prove your innocence, you seem to have gone much further than the majority of dispute threads I've seen, so credit to you there.

@MMDE I will say this though, if you're going to cut out posts from the 'sympathisers' because their unhelpful, then you should probably also cut out posts from the accusers that add nothing as well. And also the ones that say things like 'why are you getting angry, just prove it and you'll be fine' or 'you're not proving your case by getting mad' because they don't add anything either, just fuel to the fire.

They've said before that they won't take videos of you playing the game as evidence

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14 hours ago, B1rvine said:

 

For the record, the “proof” is that your timestamps are impossibly out of order. Simply put, they cant be duplicated by “normal” play.

 

 

How could you possibly know that?  Did you test it?

 

 

 

Edited by jabber_wooky
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We all know those 2 timestamps are out of order.  That doesn't automatically mean someone is downloading saves, or whatever it is that losers do.  I know I god damn well didn't, and this happened to me too.  The burden of proof is upon you to prove my guilt.  So claiming that this is impossible without using a download or whatever, as is being implied in B1rvine's post, needs to be backed up with evidence if he's going to make such an absolute claim of impossibility.  This is the way civilized society works.  Or does the process here appropriate the uncivilized attitudes of fascists and communists?

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1 hour ago, jabber_wooky said:

We all know those 2 timestamps are out of order.  That doesn't automatically mean someone is downloading saves, or whatever it is that losers do.  I know I god damn well didn't, and this happened to me too.  The burden of proof is upon you to prove my guilt.  So claiming that this is impossible without using a download or whatever, as is being implied in B1rvine's post, needs to be backed up with evidence if he's going to make such an absolute claim of impossibility.  This is the way civilized society works.  Or does the process here appropriate the uncivilized attitudes of fascists and communists?

On here, once you're flagged, you're already guilty. When you come to dispute your flag, you're trying to prove your innocence, completely different from the way it works in the western world 

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I'm sure this will not matter as anything else i ever posted on dispute stuff. How about in game leaderboards? Couldn't that be proff of unique save file? If hackers use same save/s couldn't you see some pattern? There will always be gamers on leaderboard with same score, but what are chances that same gamers have same score on 3 or more challenges?

 

I know, i know. If something doesn't prove he's guilty it doesn't matter.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, ihadalifeb4this said:

I'm sure this will not matter as anything else i ever posted on dispute stuff. How about in game leaderboards? Couldn't that be proff of unique save file? If hackers use same save/s couldn't you see some pattern? There will always be gamers on leaderboard with same score, but what are chances that same gamers have same score on 3 or more challenges?

 

I know, i know. If something doesn't prove he's guilty it doesn't matter.

 

 

Not really since a lot of games that have leaderboard on the ps3 are all hacked too

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10 minutes ago, SnowxSakura said:

Not really since a lot of games that have leaderboard on the ps3 are all hacked too

 

I never had a doubt this will prove he's guilty without actually trying to check it out first. That's all from me. Bye.

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4 hours ago, ihadalifeb4this said:

 

I never had a doubt this will prove he's guilty without actually trying to check it out first. That's all from me. Bye.

 

Well, if it does have unique best times on challenges and whatnot and it's provided fast enough, it definitely makes a difference. Especially if his best times are worse than that of a save, but that part is hard to validate.

Edited by MMDE
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On 9/26/2018 at 9:02 AM, jabber_wooky said:

How could you possibly know that?  Did you test it?

 

 

On 9/28/2018 at 5:23 AM, jabber_wooky said:

We all know those 2 timestamps are out of order.

 

You should probably post in your own dispute thread, not piggyback off of this one..

 

But I’ll respond here since you named me. You yourself have stated the timestamps are out of order. Someone else, not you, raised a question about whether the informants also needed to be “collected.” But the original disputer, Valenok, claiming this gave completely fictitious information about a “2nd riddler trophy” which isn’t in the game (they’re in Asylum/City/Knight). Furthermore, you scolded the guy in your own thread for suggesting this. So it’s safe to assume you aren’t claiming they unlock it in this manner.

 

Therefore, the only way possible to accomplish this order is with a negative affecting glitch. Generally, glitches can be repeated by everyone. Ie, the same spot freezes for everyone. Imagine if all you had to do to get unflagged is say “it glitched on me.” 

 

As I pointed out in your thread, you had not one, but two glitches. I explained it more there, but you finished Clean Streets and Enigma Unraveled at the same time and neither popped the first time around. That’s an incredible odd occurrence, considering “clean streets” autopops upon completion, also when loading a game where the requirements are done prior.

 

At some point, there needs to be determination on whether a glitch happened or if it is just an excuse.

 

Edit: And yes, this stuff has been tested.

 

 

 

Edited by B1rvine
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3 hours ago, B1rvine said:

Therefore, the only way possible to accomplish this order is with a negative affecting glitch. Generally, glitches can be repeated by everyone. Ie, the same spot freezes for everyone. Imagine if all you had to do to get unflagged is say “it glitched on me.” 

There's many situations where this isn't the case, especially in the case of negative glitches. Look at Crysis 2 for example... unlocking all weapons happened at level 45, yet for me I had to play to level 8 after resetting my level, my mate to 13, and the other unlocked at the correct time. Some games also simply have trophies that delay longer to unlock for some people. I'm not saying that we should unflag anyone who says, yea it glitched on me, as that would be silly... I'm just saying that we should stop automatically condemning people as cheaters, especially when there's reasonable doubt. 

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7 minutes ago, kraven_15 said:

Look at Crysis 2 for example...

 

Im not an expert at Crysis, nor do I know if any trophies can be out of order because of that one. 

 

But, the guide on pst has a warning note that the particular trophy you mention has a high chance of glitching, how to prevent, and fix it.  This is what I mean when it’s generally repeatable, as it happens to many people, or it’s well documented, or if it’s not at least someone else can duplicate the glitch on purpose by following a general set of instructions. 

 

I also provided examples earlier in this thread of out of order trophies being ignored. There are specific reasons the riddler trophy and profiles were selected.

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17 hours ago, B1rvine said:

 

 

 

You should probably post in your own dispute thread, not piggyback off of this one..

 

But I’ll respond here since you named me. You yourself have stated the timestamps are out of order. Someone else, not you, raised a question about whether the informants also needed to be “collected.” But the original disputer, Valenok, claiming this gave completely fictitious information about a “2nd riddler trophy” which isn’t in the game (they’re in Asylum/City/Knight). Furthermore, you scolded the guy in your own thread for suggesting this. So it’s safe to assume you aren’t claiming they unlock it in this manner.

 

Therefore, the only way possible to accomplish this order is with a negative affecting glitch. Generally, glitches can be repeated by everyone. Ie, the same spot freezes for everyone. Imagine if all you had to do to get unflagged is say “it glitched on me.” 

 

As I pointed out in your thread, you had not one, but two glitches. I explained it more there, but you finished Clean Streets and Enigma Unraveled at the same time and neither popped the first time around. That’s an incredible odd occurrence, considering “clean streets” autopops upon completion, also when loading a game where the requirements are done prior.

 

At some point, there needs to be determination on whether a glitch happened or if it is just an excuse.

 

Anyway, this thread should be closed. As stated already, this OP here had his flag lifted. The original flagging person changed his mind. That’s not the case for @jabber_wooky.

 

Edit: And yes, this stuff has been tested.

 

 

 

I'll piggyback off this one because all the witch hunters are in here.  People who I regularly boost with are in my thread and are telling you guys that I'm not a cheater.

 

You're posting false info, I never even looked at Valenok's thread nor have I commented on anything he's said.

 

I claim little knowledge of how these trophies pop because I did this game 2 years ago.  I'm not going to put any effort into figuring out how a possible glitch caused this because that is a massive waste of my time in order to appease an inquisition.  But I will put effort into criticizing the cancerous attitude that I'm seeing here.

 

Do you really think a guy who has platted Far Cry 2, Bad Company 1, White Knight Chronicles, Binary Domain, X-com, and a multitude of other tedious games suddenly decided to use someone else's save file to instantly get the collectibles in 1 game that takes far less time?  That is beyond silly, and this is farce.  I can't believe this is how you really feel and I think you have some kind of ulterior motive.

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On 9/28/2018 at 2:43 PM, MMDE said:

 

Well, if it does have unique best times on challenges and whatnot and it's provided fast enough, it definitely makes a difference. Especially if his best times are worse than that of a save, but that part is hard to validate.

 

Here you go:

 

bMjPXV__wRvxpzWs8Zk7vew0K2oNRZJbWUF4Cax_

 

Y5STuSp2w-itya6-DeFNqQ7OIDGZWcS3dgjXalgz

 

CEbvCAfQ7IIs9Pz5B_JWw98Y6suEO4-I1kpXISg-

 

 

2G17vo10JUppOi6xG6t62TErFhy8LBF8CDrFjhRX

 

ggdelHHsqawtPa6KpmKfeY1LInt53Sn4kDa6znwG

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I did talk with grimydawg, in case anyone wonders, and I already lean towards what he set the outcome of this case to be. In other words, @Spectral_Shadow , you will probably be unflagged, but I just want to do some extra research before I actually lift this one, because it's connected to a dozen of other cases. The thing he is flagged for is definitely something easy to mess up if you cheat, and so it's definitely a sign of foul play, but can it also be glitches? There are other trophies that seems to be too fast in some of these cases too. Is there some way to differentiate? Is this game just so glitchy that nobody can really be flagged for it unless the trophies are all over the place? I don't see many of the people flagged for it having any other games out of order, which is something i often look for and find in cases where people cheat. Maybe this person didn't mess up cheating anything else, but what's the chances with 10 other people too? Furthermore, this game is a total mess, everyone knows it.

 

Anyway, I want to do a little bit more research before I lift these, just gotta find the time and will for it.

 

Just to refute some normal complains:

 

No, it's not just one trophy, and one trophy can be enough depending on the situation. Imagine if someone gets the trophy for beating the game before doing almost every single other unmissable story related trophy...

 

Your trophy timestamps can be the evidence that you've already been found guilty for cheating. The dispute threads is about giving people a chance to lift incorrect flags. You should try to present a case for why it's wrong, people think what you've done is impossible with some kind of reasoning, explain/show them wrong. Glitches is definitely an issue, but with the majority of games, it's not. I've always said you should not be afraid about glitches if you run into them, and I still stand by that even if this is a glitch, as it seems this will be lifted.

 

Getting wrongly flagged is not the end of the world. Seriously. They're not put in jail, they are given a chance to get it lifted and they will likely get back on the leaderboards. You likely won't have to come dispute flag after flag, as most wrong flags won't be approved, and it's just this reason people are actually looking at the reports, so people don't get wrongly flagged over and over etc.

 

And I remove posts relating to drama, or that is all about discussing how disputes works etc rather than contributing to the current dispute.

 

On 9/30/2018 at 4:25 AM, Spectral_Shadow said:

 

Here you go:

 

 

Thanks! :) Helps making some general ruling on the case easier, less room for uncertainty!

Edited by MMDE
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5 hours ago, MMDE said:

...it's connected to a dozen of other cases...

 

So while I lean towards the same conclusion on this case, it begs the question, what about the others?

 

For example, jabber_wookie, had two 100% impossibles. Then there's valenok, who made up a completely fictitious story about how its possible, then made up things about non existent items. Finally, refuz80, is identical to the Asylum/City challenge disputes.  I feel more information should be obtained from them. 

 

I do feel each of these types should be treated on a case by case basis.

 

Edited by B1rvine
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41 minutes ago, B1rvine said:

 

So while I lean towards the same conclusion on this case, it begs the question, what about the others?

 

For example, jabber_wookie, missed both "Clean Streets" and "Enigma Unveiled." Then there's valenok, who made up a completely fictitious story about how its possible, then made up things about non existent items. Finally, refuz80, is identical to the Asylum/City challenge disputes.  I feel more information should be obtained from them. 

 

I do feel each of these "questionable" and "impossible" should be treated on a case by case basis.

 

Well, that's why I want to look into it properly. I don't think anyone in question has any other flags either. That guy who claimed it was possible, maybe he was right, or he thought it was because he didn't use a downloaded save.

Edited by MMDE
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12 minutes ago, ShogunCroCop said:

just hide Arkham and move on already. 

 

Well if they did do it legit, they've worked very hard to obtain an UR Platinum and would not wan't to hide it and they shouldn't have to. The whole point of the dispute is for people who have earned the trophies legit and want to dispute the flag. This person has stuck around longer than most and good for them. If you're being honest, stay calm, be polite, offer evidence in your favor and be patient. Nothing says these have to be completed over night. 

Edited by Afro_Gear
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2 hours ago, AJ_-_808 said:

I already contributed to this via this dispute and PM.  It was questioned why this was still open and why the disputer doesn't just hide it and move on.  I gave an answer for (both) question.  Maybe take your own advice.  You can PM me if you want to continue this, but I'm sure all the related posts will be moderated.

 

As I said, it's kept open because I wanted to run some tests and do some research etc, understand properly exactly what I'm dealing with here. I've never personally played the game, but I know from release it was plagued with issues, and honestly, the guys who are disputing seem legit. I've just been busy, but I've started the research now. :)

 

And please, we really don't need discussing how the disputes should work in every longer dispute thread. Make some other thread where you can discuss things you find problematic or something.

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