Potent_Delusions Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) 57 minutes ago, MMDE said: https://psnprofiles.com/100-club/1668-littlebigplanet-karting I'm sure @Potent_Delusions is happy you're suggesting we give him a flag. Doesn't come as a surprise to me Plus, as @MMDE will know: I cleared that with the cheater team at the time to make sure it was permitted, and it was granted (idled the game with 1 ps3 whilst playing on the other, it's not active play on 2 ps3s at all). Edited October 19, 2018 by Potent_Delusions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergen Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, ProfBambam55 said: and this is where we will likely agree and disagree on some things...first, let's look at the idea of "anybody could do it if they wanted to"...while I was working on the whitelist thread I wanted to be sure of the games that could be affected by hackers and which could not...i contacted a few hackers and a friend who works for a dev here in canada...i wasn't able to get clear answers for gta v and black ops 2 so I bought a 4th ps3 that fit the criteria of being able to jailbreak it....and this is exactly what I did...i purchased an e3 flasher, took this console apart, and set it up with the firmware/software necessary to run mods on it...i purchased 2 copies of black ops 2 and a 2nd one for gta v...i tested out some of the mod menus found on the net to see what was in fact possible... i am not very technologically advanced so I would think that if someone followed the same guidance as I did, anyone could have access to a jailbroken console if they wanted to...i could argue that the same could be said for unencrypted save files and most things that are deemed as cheating here...does that make it ok to use these methods?... i'm going to assume that we would both say "no"...but why shouldn't we allow those times on the leaderboards?...1 - is it because they give a really unfair advantage that is similar to not playing the game oneself?...2 - is it because not everyone could do it?...3 - is it because we are skipping the trophy requirements?...4 - is it the idea of outside tools being used?...or 5 - is it for other reasons?...if 1, then this falls true for all things that are currently flaggable and makes our unflaggable list fair...if 2, then I would argue that the flaggable list should be unflaggable since technically everyone has access to them...if 3, then debug menus and cross saves, amongst others, that unlock trophies should be flaggable...if 4, then turbo controllers and gonespy should not be allowed...if 5, all good and this might be a good place to discuss them... I think playing multiple consoles on multiple platforms, for multiple games, or as offline share play is fine and different from multiple people playing the same game at the same time for one account...you still need to unlock the trophies in an order that one person could replicate on one console through normal play if they wanted to... If we look at your examples, much like cfw use or team accounts, they might be very hard to detect and to come up with a proper rule that disallows them...a few possible reasons as to why cases where multiple people are playing a game simultaneously to earn trophies for a common account might not have been seen in disputes is : 1 - the cheat team have not accepted these flags...2 - the average gamer has considered such methods cheating and hasn't performed them...it's also possible they are too difficult to detect and that if a person looked at such a list they wouldn't think "these timestamps are definitely cheated imo" which should be the criteria for flagging someone...i'm suggesting that if they do look obviously impossible, they should be flagged and that perhaps we should consider making them against the rules...clever use would go undetected as with all flaggable offenses here...improper use would result in a flag...it changes nothing really as far as how flags work now and who "gets away" with what... it's kind of an odd comment...not sure why we need to bring individual people into the discussion and speak on their behalf...i don't think rules should be made just for the convenience of one gamer or another... my goal is not to attack anyone just make things reasonable for everyone...I think as with rdr, games like these would inevitably be grandfathered...so we could say little big planet karting is fine or any game (like in sergen's post) that comes up before now where this has obviously been done...moving forward we could say this is a flaggable offense and work from there...i don't think it makes the cheat team's job any more difficult or easy...it's just applying another rule while analyzing time stamps that have been flagged... again though, I think it's important to discuss both sides of the debate and that a majority agree to either put it on the flaggable list or not...this includes the opinion of the cheat team and sly of course who could veto the decision...i think many of us would appreciate hearing the reasoning behind such a decision and for me, that's what this thread is about... I think my wording could have been better, this could be done by anyone without modding, without interacting with a modder, without using someone else's save file while playing the game legitimately and with officially approved PlayStation hardware and in-fact, I think it helps the devs of those games even more if you have a 2nd console and 2nd copy of their game. In the case of LittleBigPlanet Karting, it was a thing that was very simple to do and I think it made sense at the time to do it, because the 24 hours in create mode was completely possible to idle if you had a turbo controller, or followed instructions for keeping it idle with a regular controller. Then because my main account was associated with a PS3 that had my account on it, I decided to complete the offline on the game during the day when I was idling create mode on my other PS3. In the case of LBPK, it's not as complex as having a bunch of people doing multiple grinds at the same time on different game modes. I'll also say that if the LBPK scenario was explained to a PlayStation representative, I think they'd say there was nothing wrong with doing that. Whereas, if you asked them if you could boost Killzone Shadow Fall, they'd probably say something negative about that. It gets more complex when it's multiple active grinds on the same game, which is why I have the opinion of "if they can do it once, they can do it again". If someone ever does something like that I think they should be prepared to prove it if they're ever put on the spot about it and I'm more than willing to make LBPK videos to show exactly how simple it is to do for that game. While you could say all the above could be done by someone who deletes their user while backing up their save. The issue with deleting your user and backing up your save is that the trophy list does look 100% like it was use of external saves once the trophies are earned. On LBPK there was a minimum platinum time, since there was a trophy for 30 minutes of create mode, then a trophy for 24 hours of create mode. If it took you less than 23 hours, 30 minutes to get from 30 minutes to 24 hours, that would be flaggable. Other games could also be looked into from this perspective, like how long it took the person to complete chapter 2 after chapter 1 and so on. If a game had a glitch where you could play split screen in multiple modes at once, nobody would say there's anything wrong with that, but there's suddenly something wrong with having invested extra money in official PlayStation hardware to do a simple game with an idle method while doing the active part at the same time on another console. I think it would be my exit out of trophy hunting if I do get flagged for LBPK, because it would be a deception from this website if they change the rules and I'm affected by it. I tried my best to play by their rules for 6 years now and wouldn't have intended to do anything like what I did for LBPK if it was clearly against the rules of the website. @Potent_Delusions has also said he had asked staff before he used the method for LBPK and it was approved back then, so for the decision to be changed after the game is already done is a big shambles. Moving forward, I'm not going to do anything like that again. I've always tried to make sure that what I've been doing also is approved by this website, like making completely sure GoneSpy was going to be allowed before I ever attempted to use it for a trophy. Edited October 19, 2018 by Sergen 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post hBLOXs Posted October 19, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted October 19, 2018 I really don’t think LBPK or even PSBRAS and the multiple access to it of anybody are a problem or should be flaggable. If you got 4 consoles & 3 buddies... I envy you. My only grief here is with flat out statements like: “I’m not gonna buy that you did a-spec & b-spec simultaneously”. You either allow multiple players on multiple consoles for the same game or you don’t. Why wouldn’t somebody then feel the urge to go for both GT5 trophies together? It’s kinda tempting and ridiculously easy. So when that’s deemed flaggable right out the gate your whole “flag team” becomes an exercise in randomness. Why does it matter what any of you personally “buy”? If it’s possible err on the side of caution and unflag the person. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfBambam55 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Sergen said: In the case of LBPK, it's not as complex as having a bunch of people doing multiple grinds at the same time on different game modes. i think this pretty much sums up where we disagree...i don't think that just because a method is potentially simple for one game, it should apply to all games...if it seems like it could actually be considered cheating, which I'll define as methods in earning trophies leading to time stamps that would be implausible for a single gamer to earn through relatively normal play which I think our list of flaggable/unflaggable methods covers quite reasonably, for many or most other games, then to me it's worth considering adding it to our cheating list... i don't think bringing revenue to devs or how they view our leaderboards has really affected our rules here but I could be wrong... and I don't think this topic is entirely about just proving how we did something as I tried to point out with my jailbroken console example...i could post in detail how it is done and record it and earning trophies but that still wouldn't make it acceptable, and rightfully so... so I'll ask you to step out of the LBPK example for a sec and look at examples like playing mp and sp at the same time, for example, which I think more often than not would require two very active players earning trophies in an order that is not possible by one person through normal play...a question for you : do you consider only seeing multiple people playing the same game on one account as legit because for a handful of trophies for a handful of games the role could be rubber banded or basically afk, meaning very little potential impact on the leaderboards or chance of detection, or are you also considering the broader picture of how this might drastically affect the leaderboards on a lot of games which could appear completely out of order and easily detected?... is there a game that has a glitch that allows multiple game modes being played in split screen at the same time?...and how do you know nobody would say there is anything wrong with it?...is it because it could be replicated by one person?...i agree that it is kind of all of a sudden but not because anyone invested money in anything or idled...i think it is because of the potential impact it could have on the leaderboards if it is officially declared as legit for all games...because of this thread I took a look at my trophy profile and realized it could affect just about any game that has separate dlc, online, single player modes and would cut completion times in half or more in many cases depending on how many people were actively involved...i mean in wolfenstein 2 alone you could cut out a whole run time, and on mein leiben at that, and all the dlc...i could list a ton of games it would affect and the overwhelming majority are not afk ones where a second console would be mainly inactive...so I stand by disallowing this because the impact could be far more detrimental to the leaderboards than beneficial in my opinion... Edited October 19, 2018 by ProfBambam55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergen Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, hBLOXs said: I really don’t think LBPK or even PSBRAS and the multiple access to it of anybody are a problem or should be flaggable. If you got 4 consoles & 3 buddies... I envy you. My only grief here is with flat out statements like: “I’m not gonna buy that you did a-spec & b-spec simultaneously”. You either allow multiple players on multiple consoles for the same game or you don’t. Why wouldn’t somebody then feel the urge to go for both GT5 trophies together? It’s kinda tempting and ridiculously easy. So when that’s deemed flaggable right out the gate your whole “flag team” becomes an exercise in randomness. Why does it matter what any of you personally “buy”? If it’s possible err on the side of caution and unflag the person. The thing with Gran Turismo 5 is that it doesn't automatically take the same amount of time to get A-Spec level 40 and B-Spec level 40, one takes longer than the other because you need to do them on a different track in a different game mode. If someone did start Gran Turismo 5 on 2 consoles at the same time from Level 0 and tried to idle both level trophies at the same time with both consoles, they wouldn't achieve both level trophies at the exact same time. It's hard to buy that they would have done those levels legit because those level trophies both take different amount of times. Like when I grinded A-Spec, I did a short event on the Indy 500 track and completed the race in around 10 minutes each time, whereas on B-Spec I kept doing the Nurburgring 4-hour Endurance race. You'd need lottery levels of luck to get both trophies 7 seconds apart while trying to grind both at once. With something like LBPK, it's easy to detect what was done, because there's a minimum time between 30 minutes of create mode and 24 hours of create mode, it can't be done in any less than 23 hours, 30 minutes which then makes the platinum have a minimum time of 23 hours, 30 minutes if someone did try to speed run the game. 8 minutes ago, ProfBambam55 said: i think this pretty much sums up where we disagree...i don't think that just because a method is potentially simple for one game, it should apply to all games...if it seems like it could actually be considered cheating, which I'll define as methods in earning trophies leading to time stamps that would be implausible for a single gamer to earn through relatively normal play which I think our list of flaggable/unflaggable methods covers quite reasonably, for many or most other games, then to me it's worth considering adding it to our cheating list... i don't think bringing revenue to devs or how they view our leaderboards has really affected our rules here but I could be wrong... and I don't think this topic is entirely about just proving how we did something as I tried to point out with my jailbroken console example...i could post in detail how it is done and record it and earning trophies but that still wouldn't make it acceptable, and rightfully so... so I'll ask you to step out of the LBPK example for a sec and look at examples like playing mp and sp at the same time, for example, which I think more often than not would require two very active players earning trophies in an order that is not possible by one person through normal play...a question for you : do you consider only seeing multiple people playing the same game on one account as legit because for a handful of trophies for a handful of games the role could be rubber banded or basically afk, meaning very little potential impact on the leaderboards or chance of detection, or are you also considering the broader picture of how this might drastically affect the leaderboards on a lot of games which could appear completely out of order and easily detected?... is there a game that has a glitch that allows multiple game modes being played in split screen at the same time?...and how do you know nobody would say there is anything wrong with it?...is it because it could be replicated by one person?...i agree that it is kind of all of a sudden but not because anyone invested money in anything or idled...i think it is because of the potential impact it could have on the leaderboards if it is officially declared as legit for all games...because of this thread I took a look at my trophy profile and it realized it could affect just about any game that has separate dlc, online, single player modes and would cut completion times in half or more in many cases depending on how many people were actively involved...i mean in wolfenstein 2 alone you could cut out a whole run time, and on mein leiben at that, and all the dlc...i could list a ton of games it would affect and the overwhelming majority are not afk ones where a second console would be mainly inactive...so I stand by disallowing this because the impact could be far more detrimental to the leaderboards than beneficial in my opinion... Because team accounts are approved by this website, I think any instance where this method is used, if proven to be doable legitimately the person shouldn't be flagged. In 2015 I intended to do the multiplayer grind for The Chronicles of Riddick: Assault on Dark Athena while doing single player trophies and grinding multiplayer trophies at the same time. This could be done easily by myself because I had 3 PS3s and a turbo controller and the grinding method for that game could also be done with a turbo controller if it could hold the R1 button. Although I decided against using this method at the time, I did get approval at the time and have evidence to support that. Since this has been approved by staff for years already when they've been asked about it personally, I don't think it should now be changed. It is misleading to try to play by rules that get changed on a moments notice and retroactively affect people who tried to play by those rules for years. But as I said, if the person is prepared to take the chance, they should also be prepared to find ways to prove that what they were doing was all within the boundaries of the game, without cheating being used. The leaderboard stat for flagging says "cheaters removed", but this method can be done entirely legitimately with all trophies being fulfilled as the game intended. Edited October 19, 2018 by Sergen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hBLOXs Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 From what I remember how GT5 works: your A-spec doesn’t actually level up & pop the trophy until you confirm the end of the race. Then your xp is calculated, new rank displayed, saved after you confirm and THEN, once you’re back at the main menu, the according trophy pops. I could be wrong but something Se7en said in this thread also sounded as if he thought this one is an easy double trophy. Making the statement “we won’t buy that one” more than unfair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfBambam55 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Sergen said: The thing with Gran Turismo 5 is that it doesn't automatically take the same amount of time to get A-Spec level 40 and B-Spec level 40, one takes longer than the other because you need to do them on a different track in a different game mode. If someone did start Gran Turismo 5 on 2 consoles at the same time from Level 0 and tried to idle both level trophies at the same time with both consoles, they wouldn't achieve both level trophies at the exact same time. It's hard to buy that they would have done those levels legit because those level trophies both take different amount of times. Like when I grinded A-Spec, I did a short event on the Indy 500 track and completed the race in around 10 minutes each time, whereas on B-Spec I kept doing the Nurburgring 4-hour Endurance race. You'd need lottery levels of luck to get both trophies 7 seconds apart while trying to grind both at once. With something like LBPK, it's easy to detect what was done, because there's a minimum time between 30 minutes of create mode and 24 hours of create mode, it can't be done in any less than 23 hours, 30 minutes which then makes the platinum have a minimum time of 23 hours, 30 minutes if someone did try to speed run the game. Because team accounts are approved by this website, I think any instance where this method is used, if proven to be doable legitimately the person shouldn't be flagged. In 2015 I intended to do the multiplayer grind for The Chronicles of Riddick: Assault on Dark Athena while doing single player trophies and grinding multiplayer trophies at the same time. This could be done easily by myself because I had 3 PS3s and a turbo controller and the grinding method for that game could also be done with a turbo controller if it could hold the R1 button. Although I decided against using this method at the time, I did get approval at the time and have evidence to support that. Since this has been approved by staff for years already when they've been asked about it personally, I don't think it should now be changed. It is misleading to try to play by rules that get changed on a moments notice and retroactively affect people who tried to play by those rules for years. But as I said, if the person is prepared to take the chance, they should also be prepared to find ways to prove that what they were doing was all within the boundaries of the game, without cheating being used. The leaderboard stat for flagging says "cheaters removed", but this method can be done entirely legitimately with all trophies being fulfilled as the game intended. ok, so now we are talking team accounts and, once again, bringing up another somewhat exceptional afk method... with regards to team accounts I think they are acceptable as long as they play within the boundaries of all time stamps for a certain game falling within the category of being non flaggable, as defined by the site...this is not what we are questioning...we are looking at whether teams should be able to simultaneously earn trophies for one game...I'm not sure why team accounts are acceptable but my guess would be that they could be very hard to detect thereby eliminating some people who are not team accounts and not eliminating some that are...it would be too risky to tell who plays what, when, and how so the site takes a default stance of it being ok...i don't think that is necessarily the case with team accounts working on one game together at the same time...i think it would be easily detectable for most cases and that those that are not (your afk examples) might take a little longer to discover and flag...if the timestamps look legit, they wouldn't be flagged anyhow... I hear what you are saying with the afk examples but again I would compare them to rdr...i don't think we are changing rules on a moment's notice...my theory is that few people considered teaming up to earn trophies for a game on one account because they realized it would probably be considered cheating since their time stamps would appear so random... this is probably the first discussion I've seen about it here...and I think we are all discussing it quite carefully...i would argue that the decision to allow people to play a game collectively was decided in a moment's notice without the approval of the community here so this debate now exists...does that mean we shouldn't consider a change?... and to be clear, much like rdr I don't think there should be retroactive punishment but I do think how this is handled should also be discussed thoroughly and agreed upon...again, I think rules should be based on what we want our leaderboards represent...and I'm wondering if a majority of people are actually ok with this idea of multiple people earning trophies simultaneously for a given game not being considered as cheating...if it's agreed that it's ok, I'm totally ok with it despite disagreeing...i just feel a need to point out how it might start affecting us since it's possible many of us haven't considered it as a legitimate means to earn trophies till now... I feel like I'm repeating myself and forcing my thoughts on others and that it might be seen as me falsely representing what many might disagree with...i recognize that I might be a minority so I will try to take a more observant stance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B1rvine Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) [Edit] Outdated information. Edited September 1, 2021 by B1rvine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfBambam55 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, B1rvine said: I'm curious why you’re against this? haha...i've written like 2.5 novels here already...honestly, i think this thread has made me realize that I'm just against team accounts even though I recognize that they are not doing anything I, the majority (just a guess), or the site would consider as cheating...haha...why?...i like the idea of leaderboards representing what most of us can do as individuals on our own and got to thinking : 1 - if we could split the leaderboards in single player vs team accounts through timestamps in a 100% concrete method, what would it look like?...2 - would a majority of players here vote for it?...3 - would the main leaderboard or individual game ones be most affected by this?...4 - is the main reason we don't have a separation in team vs solo lbs because it would be technically impossible and potentially chaotic to define and distinguish them through time stamps?... 1 - two lesser versions of the leaderboards now...i think team accounts are a minority so we might see that leaderboard being much smaller than the sp one...i'd actually be really curious as to how both of these would look...really curious...there's been talk over the years that team accounts rule the leaderboards here and I'd be interested to see if this is actually true... 2 - I could be wrong but my instinct tells me a majority might vote to split them... 3 - I think it would impact both but that the individual game and particularly the time stamp order and fastest times might potentially see the most differences in them (which this topic touches upon to me)...on the other hand, i think the goal of team accounts might be just to amass as many trophies as possible to get higher up rather than bust all the fastest time records so perhaps, in reality, not and I am just extrapolating...i'm not actually sure... 4 - I don't know the answer to this... trying to keep it brief here so will avoid comparing gonespy or discussing sony's constraints...yes, this is my version of brief...haha... Edited October 20, 2018 by ProfBambam55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_-_808 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 @ProfBambam55, as I said, what's the point of leaderboards when say even your most hardcore player going 20hrs a day 7 days a week (if this is even possible?) Cant compete with a team of 3-5 or however many players. Just like a game that should take on average 20 hours suddenly takes 7 hours because a team is playing different aspects of it simultaneously. Basically, you're rewarding people for winning by using a giant loophole and not 'playing fair' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfBambam55 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 (edited) man, I just re-read much of this thread and it hit me...i've gotten so wrapped up in the idea of "should this be acceptable or not", I've completely overlooked the #1 most important thing...we are talking about whether this should officially be considered CHEATING or not...key word : cheating...I feel like an idiot as I'm probably the only one who has forgotten this in this discussion...i don't think multiple people playing one game at the same time is what I would define as cheating...i dislike this practice as I think team accounts have the potential to make the leaderboards the most unfair but they are not what I would consider cheating...apologies to all involved and thanks for your patience, time, and respect in discussing this with me...I just wasted a decent amount of energy on this for no apparent reason...haha...this is a perfect example of what can happen when you have a million things going on at once and forget to step back and look at the bigger picture...embarassing...deeply sorry... Edited October 20, 2018 by ProfBambam55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfBambam55 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Sergen said: The leaderboard stat for flagging says "cheaters removed", but this method can be done entirely legitimately with all trophies being fulfilled as the game intended. thanks sergen for this...it brought me back to reality...haha... Edited October 20, 2018 by ProfBambam55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashero Posted September 1, 2021 Author Share Posted September 1, 2021 (edited) Ok... I do not like to "necro" topics, but this one was brought recently in one dispute and it seems thatLeaderboard Rules, Cheating, and What Constitutes a Flag were updated: Flaggable Offenses Using multiple PlayStations to simultaneously play a single [one] game title, at the same time, on the same PSN account. This includes: One person launching the same game on multiple PlayStations and earning trophies in an impossible manner, if compared to a single console. Multiple people “teaming” together at the same time on a specific game title, all under one account, if compared to a single person. So I think that's the ultimate answer to the question asked :). Edited September 1, 2021 by Smashero 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starcrunch061 Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 LOL. I was wondering why you necro'ed your own thread...and then I checked the dispute topics. By the way, I get that the dispute thread was "cleaned up" (per the last post), but was the dispute resolved? If not, why is the thread locked? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashero Posted September 1, 2021 Author Share Posted September 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, starcrunch061 said: LOL. I was wondering why you necro'ed your own thread...and then I checked the dispute topics. By the way, I get that the dispute thread was "cleaned up" (per the last post), but was the dispute resolved? If not, why is the thread locked? Yes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle_mcready Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 4 hours ago, Smashero said: Flaggable Offenses Using multiple PlayStations to simultaneously play a single [one] game title, at the same time, on the same PSN account. This includes: One person launching the same game on multiple PlayStations and earning trophies in an impossible manner, if compared to a single console. Multiple people “teaming” together at the same time on a specific game title, all under one account, if compared to a single person. So I think that's the ultimate answer to the question asked :). Of course, this now brings up another question: Suppose I found 10 games on an account where multiple consoles were used for one game, but dating from before the rule change (and how are we meant to know when this changed?). Clearly it would not be fair for the account to be removed from the leaderboards. But it would also not be fair to more recent trophy hunters having to play by more restrictive rules. So what should happen? Do older achievers get a pass? Or should they have to hide the trophies, but not have the flags count towards the 3 flag limit? This is the problem with rule changes - there is no fair way to retroactively either apply them or not apply them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahmedelebiary Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 4 hours ago, Smashero said: Ok... I do not like to "necro" topics, but this one was brought recently in one dispute and it seems thatLeaderboard Rules, Cheating, and What Constitutes a Flag were updated: Flaggable Offenses Using multiple PlayStations to simultaneously play a single [one] game title, at the same time, on the same PSN account. This includes: One person launching the same game on multiple PlayStations and earning trophies in an impossible manner, if compared to a single console. Multiple people “teaming” together at the same time on a specific game title, all under one account, if compared to a single person. So I think that's the ultimate answer to the question asked :). Does that mean that team accounts should be flagged ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B1rvine Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 (edited) Without being technical, when teams (or one person being their own team) play a game simultaneously on multiple consoles, virtually any order or speed becomes "possible", to the point of everything becoming completely disastrous of having meaning, or any realistic regulation. Quote B-b-b-b-b-b-buuut! How dare you tell us how to play our OWN gaMes and coNSOLess111!! How dare the NFL football league tell people they can't put steroids in their own bodies. How dare a real money monopoly league tell you the game that happens in your house and with your board isn't allowed to use free parking. How dare speedrun.com tell people they can't use non-official controllers with otherwise special impossible inputs. How dare a 3rd party website have any standardized rules on a leaderboard you're not required to care about. Also, who remembers the good ol' days, when everything was simple and perfectly understandable? Such as this: Flaggable: "Impossible timestamps" A few specific legacy games/examples that were pre-approved during the Dark Ages before the pitfalls of the Exploit Era was better understood are exempt and won't be flagged, but this rule really needs to be in place, due to the Gran Turismo 5 example above, being "possible" otherwise. Imagine 100 people completing a game that takes 100 hours in 1 minute, due to teams, where the save file autopops the entire game in the same amount of time. Edited September 1, 2021 by B1rvine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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