Dardiana_1

Dardiana_1's Dispute

66 posts in this topic

6 hours ago, fastflowdaman said:

 

It doesn’t matter if the ethernet is broken. You either correct those timestamps by syncing or you don't. 

 

Just think about all the other broken ethernets.

I was asking if it would even be possible to correct.  Theoretically, what would it take? Is that something that could be repaired/replaced? Cant just transfer the hard drive without formatting it in the new system as far as I know, so that's out.

 

If it isnt possible or financially reasonable to fix (ie close to the price of a new system to repair) and it ultimately affects the leaderboard in no way whatsoever, AND the rest if the profile is clean, what's the harm? Gotta ask if the punishment fits the crime so to speak.

 

If there are exceptions made under certain circumstances, I think this would probably be one.  If there are no exceptions made whatsoever, then everybody should be held to the same standards. Do you disagree?

 

Edit

Just to be clear, I dont give a toss about the leaderboard or outcome of this dispute. Just trying to help out because it kindof sucks having to hide something or else keep the flagged label

Edited by AJ_-_808
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3 hours ago, AJ_-_808 said:

I was asking if it would even be possible to correct.  Theoretically, what would it take? Is that something that could be repaired/replaced? Cant just transfer the hard drive without formatting it in the new system as far as I know, so that's out.

 

If it isnt possible or financially reasonable to fix (ie close to the price of a new system to repair) and it ultimately affects the leaderboard in no way whatsoever, AND the rest if the profile is clean, what's the harm? Gotta ask if the punishment fits the crime so to speak.

 

If there are exceptions made under certain circumstances, I think this would probably be one.  If there are no exceptions made whatsoever, then everybody should be held to the same standards. Do you disagree?

 

Edit

Just to be clear, I dont give a toss about the leaderboard or outcome of this dispute. Just trying to help out because it kindof sucks having to hide something or else keep the flagged label

The original PS4 has to be synched with Playstation's servers, either by ethernet or wifi. The original PS4 will have the original timestamps and they will overwrite the old ones. Usually, MMDE wants the disputer to contact him through this process to ensure they just don't overwrite the timestamps through other means. If you remove the hard drive from the system, I'm pretty sure it makes you reformat it. If both the ethernet and the wifi on the system are broken, then it's not possible to correct this. 

 

 

 

I'm taking the stance that it's irrelevant if their trophies mess up the leaderboard or not. They aren't legitimate and the site has the stance not to allow those. The game in question is over the three trophy limit needed to get a flag (although that's never followed anyway). Even if it doesn't affect the fastest/first achiever leaderboard, it does give a small advantage to the country/world leaderboard. OP should hide the game unless someone can show a similar dispute that was lifted because of a similar exception. 

 

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55 minutes ago, Kittet3 said:

The original PS4 has to be synched with Playstation's servers, either by ethernet or wifi. The original PS4 will have the original timestamps and they will overwrite the old ones. Usually, MMDE wants the disputer to contact him through this process to ensure they just don't overwrite the timestamps through other means. If you remove the hard drive from the system, I'm pretty sure it makes you reformat it. If both the ethernet and the wifi on the system are broken, then it's not possible to correct this. 

 

 

 

I'm taking the stance that it's irrelevant if their trophies mess up the leaderboard or not. They aren't legitimate and the site has the stance not to allow those. The game in question is over the three trophy limit needed to get a flag (although that's never followed anyway). Even if it doesn't affect the fastest/first achiever leaderboard, it does give a small advantage to the country/world leaderboard. OP should hide the game unless someone can show a similar dispute that was lifted because of a similar exception. 

 

 

Pretty sure plenty of other disputes have been lifted for similar reasons. Not going to go looking for them though... Just letting you know. Even if that wasn't the case, it's hardly an argument against lifting the flag. Someone had to be the first to be shown leniency.

 

As for giving an advantage on the overall leaderboards - if it's accepted that the trophies were earned legitimately at some point, then the points associated with the trophies aren't in question, only the timestamps. And timestamps aren't relevant on those leaderboards.

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Thank you @Kittet3 for that answer. I didnt even think of the wifi option.

 

Although there is definitely a small time advantage given by having those auto popped, it would probably be argued that it's too insignificant for anyone to really be affected, whereas losing the remainder of the trophies by having to hide the game or being removed altogether and having the account flagged is more detrimental to the account.

 

Whichever way it goes, it'll probably be up to mmde or whoever from the flag team gets to it first. Just depends on how strict or lenient they want to be

 

Edited by AJ_-_808
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What exactly is the 'flag' for? Can't we just exclude the account from that particular leaderboard and move on?

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11 hours ago, deutschZuid said:

What exactly is the 'flag' for? Can't we just exclude the account from that particular leaderboard and move on?

A 'flag' marks a game as illegitimate timestamps through normal play and it removes the account from all leaderboards. If a person has less then three flags, they can simply hide the game to be reinstated on all leaderboards. If they have three or more, then they won't be able to get back on the leaderboards but can still use the other aspects of the site. 

 

The site currently doesn't just remove people from a single leaderboard for several reasons. First, most people that have a lot of flags cheated more games that can be detected with reasonable certainty, so the three flags you're out rule accounts for that. Second, even if they were removed from a single leaderboard, their points are still giving them an edge in the overall leaderboard. There was a discussion about having those points not count, but that's a coding nightmare as well as many people won't understand why their points aren't the same as their trophy counts. It also would be a waste of resources since hiding is an option.

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20 hours ago, AJ_-_808 said:

If there are no exceptions made whatsoever, then everybody should be held to the same standards. Do you disagree?

 

I fully agree with that. 

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Exceptions to any rule are always made on a case by case basis. While we await the judgements of moderators we can always go through his profile with a fine tooth comb and look for anything else, if nothing is found then that might help the defense.

 

I think all of us know that people have been willing to cheat on some of the easiest trophies on some of the easiest games, but even with that in mind if all we can find is 4 stat progress trophies followed by regular gameplay timestamps for the rest of the game then given his explanation a possible exception might be made. I've seen a mod hold off and try to find something a little more concrete in the past so it's possible that could happen here as well.

 

I'm sure some of you already have but I'll look through his entire profile for the games I know of maybe there's something a little more clear cut.

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Again, why are people referencing "exceptions to rules"? I've read many disputes and have never seen this and no one has linked a relevant thread. 

 

Also: 

20 minutes ago, Asmund89 said:

 While we await the judgements of moderators we can always go through his profile with a fine tooth comb and look for anything else, if nothing is found then that might help the defense.

 

1

 

Goes directly against the dispute rules

Quote
  • Non-Disputed games: Try not to bring up a specific non-disputed game unless completely necessary - it's technically allowed but try to avoid it when you can. If other games on their profile need to be flagged, then just go ahead and report those games without bringing it up in the dispute thread, causing that topic to get derailed. Don't jump to report people who bring up non-disputed games unless seriously necessary.

 

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Thanks for suggestions on how to fix the timestamps by re-syncing the original playstation.

But as stated in the original post, since there were issues with it, I traded it in to Gamestop.

 

Also, for the people thinking about this being a (minor advantage) to the leaderboards, these timestamps would actually turn out to be later than the original ones, so there is no advantage for me or anyone else here.

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36 minutes ago, Kittet3 said:

Also: 

 

Goes directly against the dispute rules

 

 

 

Non-Disputed games: Try not to bring up a specific non-disputed game unless completely necessary - it's technically allowed but try to avoid it when you can. If other games on their profile need to be flagged, then just go ahead and report those games without bringing it up in the dispute thread, causing that topic to get derailed. Don't jump to report people who bring up non-disputed games unless seriously necessary.

 

I tried, :D, it's allowed, it's been done before, etc, reason, excuse, blah blah

 

36 minutes ago, Kittet3 said:

Again, why are people referencing "exceptions to rules"? I've read many disputes and have never seen this and no one has linked a relevant thread.

 

 

We reference exceptions because we've seen exceptions, the only missing thing is the burden of relevance that you might want it to fulfill, and effort. I'm not gonna look through years of disputes to defend them. Besides given that none of us even have say in the matter one could argue why are any of us even talking about it, but these disputes are public for the purpose of discussion, I'm not the first to talk about it and I won't be the last.

 

 

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Exceptions have absolutely been made. Rightfully so. It all goes back to the malicious intent or lack thereof. 

 

And everybody & his dog weighing in about “what they have seen and therefore think” does not help the disputer, dispute or mod dealing with it.

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36 minutes ago, Asmund89 said:

 

 

Non-Disputed games: Try not to bring up a specific non-disputed game unless completely necessary - it's technically allowed but try to avoid it when you can. If other games on their profile need to be flagged, then just go ahead and report those games without bringing it up in the dispute thread, causing that topic to get derailed. Don't jump to report people who bring up non-disputed games unless seriously necessary.

 

I tried, :D, it's allowed, it's been done before, etc, reason, excuse, blah blah

 

 

We reference exceptions because we've seen exceptions, the only missing thing is the burden of relevance that you might want it to fulfill, and effort. I'm not gonna look through years of disputes to defend them. Besides given that none of us even have say in the matter one could argue why are any of us even talking about it, but these disputes are public for the purpose of discussion, I'm not the first to talk about it and I won't be the last.

 

 

It's allowed but it shouldn't be encouraged :P

 

The burden of proof is on the disputer. I'm just confused because so many people are mentioning exceptions, but I can't find any time there was an exception to something like this. In my mind, this dispute is the same as this one with people arguing that since it doesn't affect the leaderboards then it shouldn't be flagged: 

And that was denied. I'm not sure what this other conversation around that this one is an exception is. Even if we believe OP, using your own save file to unlock trophies in an impossible matter is still flaggable. 

 

 

 

To the poster above, there really isn't anything else to discuss in this dispute. They used their own save to unlock the trophies, they admit it, the facts are clear and, if we are consistent, then this should remain flagged. 

 

EDIT because I don't want to make another post

 

@burner13371 I wouldn't call that an exception because no one "got away" because of that rule whereas someone was flagged because of it. It's consistently not followed, but at least it's consistent. 

Edited by Kittet3
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21 hours ago, Kittet3 said:

The game in question is over the three trophy limit needed to get a flag (although that's never followed anyway).

 

 

I mean you said it yourself, this goes hand in hand with exceptions being made. Your absolutely right that never gets followed and yet it's a rule right?

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People will complain regardless...

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I would lift this as well. It's been two years and no other examples of violations on his account. 

 

There would have been another example of this imo if he was being malicious. 

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11 minutes ago, Kittet3 said:

It's allowed but it shouldn't be encouraged :P

 

The burden of proof is on the disputer. I'm just confused because so many people are mentioning exceptions, but I can't find any time there was an exception to something like this. In my mind, this dispute is the same as this one with people arguing that since it doesn't affect the leaderboards then it shouldn't be flagged: 

 

I see where your coming from I really do. I get stuck on the morality of punishing a potential non cheater though, a believer in Blackstone's ratio you could say. But, as far as rules go you have a point.

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From waaaaaaaaay back from archaic times, here's some "Dispute Case Law" for ya'll.

 

It's situations like these where I wish there was a "yellow" flag. Not quite a "whitelist flag" but a yellow flag.  Basically a rule breaker scenario thats hard to determine, and gets lifted.  The moment a red flag goes on the account, all yellows turn to red.

 

Edit :

 

Scenario: Guy basically admits he transferred a save, about 3-4 unmissable story trophies are earned after game completion, and a few collectibles are out of order too.

 

Edited by B1rvine
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If I make an exception in one case, everyone wants it.

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14 minutes ago, MMDE said:

If I make an exception in one case, everyone wants it.

 

They may all want it, but you can use those investigative skills we've all seen, to decide if it was malicious or not. Just do what MMDE would do and I'm sure you'll make the right call whatever that may be. 😆

 

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2 hours ago, MMDE said:

If I make an exception in one case, everyone wants it.

 

What if it was put to some sort of vote for the flag team?  That way you could at least say "this is the decision made by the flag team, and that's final" and not take flak for it?  Its kindof lose-lose

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5 hours ago, B1rvine said:

From waaaaaaaaay back from archaic times, here's some "Dispute Case Law" for ya'll.

 

It's situations like these where I wish there was a "yellow" flag. Not quite a "whitelist flag" but a yellow flag.  Basically a rule breaker scenario thats hard to determine, and gets lifted.  The moment a red flag goes on the account, all yellows turn to red.

 

Edit :

 

Scenario: Guy basically admits he transferred a save, about 3-4 unmissable story trophies are earned after game completion, and a few collectibles are out of order too.

 

Oh good!

 

Well, this seems inconsistent now. This seems more similar then the case I linked, so I am in the camp of unflagging it. The case I linked had more flagged trophies and was clear evidence of being auto-popped instead of a simple save transfer, which in my mind is the difference between the two. Does that difference really matter isn't relevant in this discussion imo.

 

Of course, if I was to re-write dispute case law, I might have a different answer :P

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On 12/3/2018 at 0:48 PM, Afro_Gear said:

If the whole point of the flag system is to have some integrity to the leaderboards, then this flag does not help to achieve that goal. He didn't make the fastest time, heck he doesn't even have a 100%. I believe OP. If his earned a new fastest time then it would not matter if I believed him or not. But since his 4 quick popped trophies do not affect the leaderboard, I feel it should be lifted considering this is not an egregious or obvious offence. A whole auto popped list I'd feel differently about. We have to ask ourselves if we want to die at the stake over these flags when it really accomplishes nothing (in this particular case). Just my two cents. 

This, a 100 times this. Couldn’t have said it any better, we need to actually look at ourselves as a community and not lynch the good individuals wishing ourselves because of weird circumstances that don’t actually affect anything. 

I have the 100% in Uncharted 4 and as someone that took a long time and effort to get that 100% i don’t see a problem with this person being higher than me on the leaderboards for those specific trophies since it doesn’t do anything to me or anyone else. 

9 hours ago, B1rvine said:

From waaaaaaaaay back from archaic times, here's some "Dispute Case Law" for ya'll.

 

It's situations like these where I wish there was a "yellow" flag. Not quite a "whitelist flag" but a yellow flag.  Basically a rule breaker scenario thats hard to determine, and gets lifted.  The moment a red flag goes on the account, all yellows turn to red.

 

Edit :

 

Scenario: Guy basically admits he transferred a save, about 3-4 unmissable story trophies are earned after game completion, and a few collectibles are out of order too.

 

Great idea, i wish this is a feature since all of us are prone to having this happen to us. 

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12 hours ago, MMDE said:

If I make an exception in one case, everyone wants it.

 

Maybe if you were shown some proof that a new console was bought at that date (via pm with credit card etc blacked out for obvious reasons) you could make an exception with a justified reason behing it? It's not so very different to a certain person taking their save home from a friends and being let off.

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