Unobtainable Comrades DLC Trophies

[AceSoloMcCloud]

So like many, I rushed to get these trophies before the update and they became Partly Discontinued/Unobtainable.

Luckily I was able to get these, however in my travel to get them, I saw many who were level 1 or still hunting for a suitable Chocobo, so feel bad for those who weren't able to get them in time or have bought FFXV recently.

I believe some have pointed out you are able to downgrade your version of FFXV and unlock these Trophies as it still works offline, though this is arguably not strictly allowed.

However, if you're not wanting to or able to do this, I would like to make another suggestion to those afflicted.

Contact Square Enix support http://support.eu.square-enix.com or your regional variant that you can't get all Trophies in FFXV, and provide this suggestion below.

It is possible for those who played FINAL FANTASY XV MULTIPLAYER EXPANSION: COMRADES (the DLC for FFXV) to transfer their save game to the FINAL FANTASY XV MULTIPLAYER: COMRADES (standalone) and continue with their character, inventory and game progress with trophies auto-popping when you start, and some others popping when talking to the NPC or replaying the required mission once.

Therefore, similar functionality could be patched into FINAL FANTASY XV MULTIPLAYER EXPANSION: COMRADES (the DLC for FFXV) menu to import a FINAL FANTASY XV MULTIPLAYER: COMRADES (standalone) game save back into FFXV and auto-pop the Comrades specific trophies you can no longer get in FINAL FANTASY XV MULTIPLAYER EXPANSION: COMRADES (the DLC for FFXV), providing you have met the requirements and unlocked them in FINAL FANTASY XV MULTIPLAYER: COMRADES (standalone).

It's nothing they haven't already done in one direction, just need to do it in the other direction, and ensure that all the trophies auto-pop as you can't talk to any NPC or replay any missions now.

This will allow gamers to still get a full completion in FINAL FANTASY XV.

[Golden Devil Gamer]

15 hours ago, AceSoloMcCloud said:

I believe some have pointed out you are able to downgrade your version of FFXV and unlock these Trophies as it still works offline, though this is arguably not strictly allowed.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I'm assuming that you're saying that the proxy method is an illegitimate method. But it's mentioned in the website's guidelines "Playing on a different game version - Deleting update data to use a in-game glitch or play a game on a previous version of the game is also allowed and not a flaggable offense. This includes having to update a game through use of a proxy."

 

[AceSoloMcCloud]

10 hours ago, Golden Devil Gamer said:

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I'm assuming that you're saying that the proxy method is an illegitimate method. But it's mentioned in the website's guidelines "Playing on a different game version - Deleting update data to use a in-game glitch or play a game on a previous version of the game is also allowed and not a flaggable offense. This includes having to update a game through use of a proxy."

 

 

You are reading it wrong and also taking a very narrow viewpoint, just considering one websites policy.

 

Firstly when someone says “arguably”, it means this has already been argued and debated with valid points from both sides, and there’s no desire to argue it with anyone just accept that people have a different perspective, ie don’t bother posting what you just did but since you have, sigh, I will clarify further.

 

Firstly, “illegitimate” method is subjective when it comes to trophies, some people think that methods to speed up grinding is illegitimate, you can get stuck in those arguments for eternity. I rarely care about such arguments but since you’ve asked I’ll now need to state that I don’t care if anyone gets these trophies using this method, I’m not going to stalk them shouting they’ve got it illegitimately and don’t deserve it, I got it legitimately, it’s not fair, you should be banned etc. etc. (Ok I went to the extreme there, not trying to aggravate those gamers, I know that those who work hard on trophies only to find others cheating/hacking are permitted to feel a little angry. It’s still a game and while I like game completions for my mild OCD, I realise these are not real trophies and mean very little in life.)

 

Yes, you’re correct that this particular trophy website does mention this scenario specifically and says they have no problem with it, good to know, there are other trophy websites though you should keep that in mind.

 

More important of course is terms and conditions of Sony, the PSN and also the particular game/developers service which we all agree to quickly to get started playing the game.

 

However my specific “not strictly allowed” line is simply referring to downloading and using an older version of a game. This is not the intended behaviour of the system, you are artificially blocking the newer version, through an outside means. That technically/strictly could be considered network tampering really, although you aren’t affecting anyone else’s game experience which is the usual concern in this area. However, you have to realise in an effort to stop the bad, Sony may block what some consider to be a legitimate use of technical networking knowledge along with it as they’re not able to distinguish.

 

As such some people are not comfortable with doing it, should Sony take a strict approach now or in the future, yes it seems unlikely and some people are happy with doing it, that’s fine.

 

In short all my line is saying is some people are ok with it and some are not, “arguably” and fundamentally, you’re not meant to do it.

Edited December 24, 2018 by AceSoloMcCloud

[Golden Devil Gamer]

2 hours ago, AceSoloMcCloud said:

Firstly when someone says “arguably”, it means this has already been argued and debated with valid points from both sides, and there’s no desire to argue it with anyone just accept that people have a different perspective, ie don’t bother posting what you just did but since you have, sigh, I will clarify further.

I've literally seen no one argue against HTTP proxies except for you.

 

2 hours ago, AceSoloMcCloud said:

Firstly, “illegitimate” method is subjective when it comes to trophies, some people think that methods to speed up grinding is illegitimate, you can get stuck in those arguments for eternity.

That's probably such a minority though. Even if there's people that prefer to grind through a game normally, I doubt there's many people who'd call something like boosting as illegitimate. Again, I'm not saying that there's no one who thinks like that, but it's such a minority. Same goes for auto-popping trophies through cross-save. It's acceptable, but some people might call it unearned and illegitimate. Again, it's a minority's opinion that comes from a biased opinion. For example, majority of trophy hunters would agree that using CFW to unlock trophies is an illegitimate method. "Illegitimate" is subjective, but there's clearly certain methods that are universally considered as "wrong", and anything else being an issue would just be one's own biased opinion. 

 

2 hours ago, AceSoloMcCloud said:

I rarely care about such arguments but since you’ve asked I’ll now need to state that I don’t care if anyone gets these trophies using this method, I’m not going to stalk them shouting they’ve got it illegitimately and don’t deserve it, I got it legitimately, it’s not fair, you should be banned etc. etc. (Ok I went to the extreme there, not trying to aggravate those gamers, I know that those who work hard on trophies only to find others cheating/hacking are permitted to feel a little angry. It’s still a game and while I like game completions for my mild OCD, I realise these are not real trophies and mean very little in life.)

You're acting like as if those who are using the HTTP proxy server aren't working hard. They still have to earn the trophies in a legit manner (and actually, it would be more difficult for them because they have to rely on AIs instead of other players via online). There's nothing unfair here. Then are you trying to suggest that those who didn't update to the latest patch and are continuing Comrades offline are being unfair too? 

 

2 hours ago, AceSoloMcCloud said:

Yes, you’re correct that this particular trophy website does mention this scenario specifically and says they have no problem with it, good to know, there are other trophy websites though you should keep that in mind.

But people using this site probably only care about what this site counts as flaggable. PSN Trophy Leaders doesn't mention HTTP proxies as illegitimate. I don't think any trophy website would consider using older patches as "illegitimate" and it doesn't matter what means you've used to get an older patch. Some people might just use the default version on a disc and not update it. Others might use an HTTP proxy to download an older patch.

 

2 hours ago, AceSoloMcCloud said:

More important of course is terms and conditions of Sony, the PSN and also the particular game/developers service which we all agree to quickly to get started playing the game.

The terms and conditions for trophies is much more lenient with Playstation/PSN. Hell, they even allow using CFWs to unlock trophies! Look at Dragon Fin Soup for example. The plat is impossible because certain trophies aren't unlockable. The PSNP rarity is 0% how it should be, yet the PSN rarity is 0.2%, which doesn't make sense. Clearly they're users that used an illegitimate method to unlock the plat, yet PSN still keeps them. Game developers never have any terms and conditions on trophies/achievements. They have conditions for their online servers, but nothing about the game's trophy system. Let's use Dragon Fin Soup as an example. The developers can't do anything about players getting the plat illegitimately. That's up to PSN.

 

3 hours ago, AceSoloMcCloud said:

However my specific “not strictly allowed” line is simply referring to downloading and using an older version of a game. This is not the intended behaviour of the system, you are artificially blocking the newer version, through an outside means. That technically/strictly could be considered network tampering really, although you aren’t affecting anyone else’s game experience which is the usual concern in this area.

Outside means are used, but the file your downloading on your PS4 still originates from Playstation. When using an HTTP proxy, you can see the URL your PS4 is requesting to download the latest patch. You're simply overwriting the URL to a previous patch's URL. However, it's not like as if the URL originates from a third-party source. If that's the case, then that's truly not allowed. The new URL is still a Playstation one because any older patches of any game still remains in their server. It's a different type of network tampering than what you're suggesting. The network tamperings that can lead to an issue are ones that influences the network of the source. This includes stuff like hacking network lobbies and servers and having an influence on the content of the game. The tampering done here is not the source, but the receiver. Your changing up the file packets that you're receiving, not the file packets that they're giving (there's a difference). Any user has the rights to decide on what file packets are coming into their network, because that's a change in the user's network. And HTTP proxies has been used for years and Sony doesn't care about it. Some people use it to get better download speeds (though personally, it tends to give me a slower speed).

 

4 hours ago, AceSoloMcCloud said:

However, you have to realise in an effort to stop the bad, Sony may block what some consider to be a legitimate use of technical networking knowledge along with it as they’re not able to distinguish.

If HTTP proxies aren't a legitimate networking method, than what it? What else would they block (assuming they would block anything in the first place)?

 

4 hours ago, AceSoloMcCloud said:

As such some people are not comfortable with doing it, should Sony take a strict approach now or in the future, yes it seems unlikely and some people are happy with doing it, that’s fine.

Well, not only some people are happy with this method, but they also find it necessary too. Take the Mad Max issue for example (also where the method was posted for the first time). Because of a patch, one of the trophies ended up being unobtainable due to a glitch. Because of this, people were forced to download an older patch to get the trophy. Luckily, this has been patched, but not always is this the case. There's a trophy in Black Ops III where after a new update, the game crashes right before unlocking a certain trophy. People need to download an older update if they want to get that trophy, because the developers have no plans of patching that.

 

 

Anyways, for your main topic, I don't think Square Enix an implement a reverse auto-pop system as easily as you make it sound like. Something like this would be coded in an "if __ then __" type of statement. And normally, I don't think a game dev can access the code for the trophy system of a game. Trophies are coded in a way where after a certain requirement is met, the corresponding trophy will pop. But I doubt they can do it the other way where they can check what trophies a user has. I'm going to use Sound Shapes' cross-save and auto-pop system as an example. When you use cross-save on other platforms, your progress gets carried over and already-earned trophies start popping. The way that's probably coded is that it checks your progress from the save, and saves it to the platform you're adding it too. And since the songs and mini-games are cleared, it automatically fills the requirements for the trophies and then the trophies pop. It doesn't check what trophies you've already earned and use that to pop the trophies again. If that was the case, then players might've gotten the plat auto-poped before all the other trophies auto-poped.

 

FFXV Comrades' auto-pop system works in the same way, where it saves your progress from the save file, then the trophy requirements are automatically fulfilled. This is why some trophies don't auto-pop like others do. For example, "Royal Protection" auto-pops because the progress of receiving a Royal Sigil is saved. "City of Light" only pops when you go talk to the NPC that allows you to power-up facilities. This is because the trophy was coded to pop when you've powered-up all facilities through that NPC. Even if the "powered-up all facilities" part is satisfied. You'd need to trigger the NPC to unlock the trophy because of the way the trophy was coded. "Welcome to the Crow's Nest" doesn't auto-pop because that trophies only been coded to unlock when that NPC appears.

 

So let's say Square Enix implements the same type of coding for the base game, for a reverse auto-pop. It would only unlock the trophies that would've auto-poped when you've cross-saved with the standalone. That means that this method wouldn't allow you to unlock all the trophies. In order for Square Enix to implement a system that auto-pops all the trophies, they'll need to change up the requirement for unlocking each trophy in Comrades' standalone. For example, they'll need to re-code "City of Light" so that it'll unlock if you have Lestallum powered-up, without the requirement of the NPC. Or for "Welcome to the Crow's Nest", they'll need a boolean variable to track if the player has met Kenny or not. If true, then the trophy requirement is fulfilled and auto-pop. Square Enix will need to individually re-code the trophy requirements, then have a code in FFXV's main game that can check the saved stats of the standalone and then pop the trophies. I doubt Square Enix would put this much effort in, but it would be great if they do so.

 

Honestly, it would be easier for them if they added an offline Comrades to FFXV's main game. No need to code anything new and they can use re-existing code. 

[Milktastrophe]

I don't think contacting Square Enix support will help. I contacted them before the trophies become unobtainable, to ask if they would become unobtainable and the response was that Square Enix does not have any control over trophies. They claimed that Sony implemented the trophies in their games. Square Enix support is clueless.

[dr_blackgaard]

Hey, I'm really new to console gaming, so I'm not really familiar yet with how to play with the files in a non-desktop realm. Is this the http proxy work-around to which you're referring? I didn't hear about Comrades being ousted from the main game until a few days after it happened, just days before I wrapped up the main campaign. I really want to 100% the game still, so I'm trying to figure out how to do that, and given that Squeenix is ending the development of FFXV DLC prematurely, I doubt they'd be receptive to retro-popping the trophies, if it's even in their purview at all, as mentioned immediately above.

 

Is there a Mac version of PSProxy or any other programs that do the same thing with Mac compatibility? If not, I can workaround, it'll just be substantially harder. Can you only download the original version of the same like this, like the 1.0 version? Or can you just roll it back to the most recent patch prior to Dec 13th? Either way, I assume the whole game needs to be deleted and re-downloaded on the proxy. I know you can offload your save data before deleting the current game to the cloud or usb, but should you put it back on after the download? Or will the game freak out since the save data's from a newer version than the game that's running? And if the older game is downloaded, can you then put the internet back to normal and just make sure the patch doesn't install automatically, or do you have to keep it on the proxy the whole time, or do you turn the internet off entirely (will the trophies even pop properly if entirely offline?).

 

Sorry for all the questions, I don't know if this is all extremely common knowledge or not, but I saw some slightly conflicting answers when poking around in general, so since you seem to know what to do with this specific situation, if you can at least link me to another tutorial that fits my needs/answers those questions, that would be amazing, thanks!

[Taliesin_2943]

On 12/23/2018 at 10:36 PM, Golden Devil Gamer said:

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I'm assuming that you're saying that the proxy method is an illegitimate method. But it's mentioned in the website's guidelines "Playing on a different game version - Deleting update data to use a in-game glitch or play a game on a previous version of the game is also allowed and not a flaggable offense. This includes having to update a game through use of a proxy."

 

If it's in question on if this is flaggable just ask mmde or grimydawg

[Golden Devil Gamer]

1 hour ago, dr_blackgaard said:

Hey, I'm really new to console gaming, so I'm not really familiar yet with how to play with the files in a non-desktop realm. Is this the http proxy work-around to which you're referring? I didn't hear about Comrades being ousted from the main game until a few days after it happened, just days before I wrapped up the main campaign. I really want to 100% the game still, so I'm trying to figure out how to do that, and given that Squeenix is ending the development of FFXV DLC prematurely, I doubt they'd be receptive to retro-popping the trophies, if it's even in their purview at all, as mentioned immediately above.

 

Is there a Mac version of PSProxy or any other programs that do the same thing with Mac compatibility? If not, I can workaround, it'll just be substantially harder. Can you only download the original version of the same like this, like the 1.0 version? Or can you just roll it back to the most recent patch prior to Dec 13th? Either way, I assume the whole game needs to be deleted and re-downloaded on the proxy. I know you can offload your save data before deleting the current game to the cloud or usb, but should you put it back on after the download? Or will the game freak out since the save data's from a newer version than the game that's running? And if the older game is downloaded, can you then put the internet back to normal and just make sure the patch doesn't install automatically, or do you have to keep it on the proxy the whole time, or do you turn the internet off entirely (will the trophies even pop properly if entirely offline?).

 

Sorry for all the questions, I don't know if this is all extremely common knowledge or not, but I saw some slightly conflicting answers when poking around in general, so since you seem to know what to do with this specific situation, if you can at least link me to another tutorial that fits my needs/answers those questions, that would be amazing, thanks!

I've posted the method and instructions here: 

The proxy program used in this case was Charles, which available in Mac.

[dr_blackgaard]

Thank you so much, very thorough and helpful!! I'll try it soon, hopefully won't need to come back with more questions.